2 weeks on Lyle Mcdonald's RFLD...advice please?
Replies
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Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
right, everyone that disagrees with you has a "psychological" issue..I guess that is an improvement over everyone "misunderstanding" the five thousand contradictory statements that you come up with on a daily basis.
If you look over the advice that was given OP in this thread it was very meaningful, she just chose to lash out at everyone and keep saying "you do not understand me, I am different"....hey, wait a minute are you two sisters? You seem to think that everyone just does not "understand" you ...
See, Dee, it's this sort of stuff that's just laughable. Baseless accusation and ridiculous conclusory statements. I've had plenty of federal and state judges grant my motions. They seem to be able to follow my logic and arguments (as well as folks like Cortelli and Milk Flax). But, I'm sure they're all wrong -- and ndj1979, a random, oftentimes nasty poster on an anonymous fitness board is correct.
What a joke.0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
right, everyone that disagrees with you has a "psychological" issue..I guess that is an improvement over everyone "misunderstanding" the five thousand contradictory statements that you come up with on a daily basis.
If you look over the advice that was given OP in this thread it was very meaningful, she just chose to lash out at everyone and keep saying "you do not understand me, I am different"....hey, wait a minute are you two sisters? You seem to think that everyone just does not "understand" you ...
We don't have the same opinion of what meaningful advice is. To me it would be something that is significant and useful and would help the receiver. It does not help me to tell me I am underestimating my calories enough to significantly reduce my weight loss when I'm not and it does not help me to be told to go back to eating at a small deficit when I've been there, done that. I have not said no one understands me, the fact is none of you are actually paying attention to what I'm saying or believing it. That's absolutely fine, I expected no better.0 -
On this type of diet I'd expect at least 1lb loss per week but I will cut my calories more and see what happens. Thanks for your input.
Someone with 10 pounds to lose cannot expect to lose 1 pound per week in a healthy way.
I tried telling her that. She didn't want to hear that or even acknowledge it. Logic doesn't belong here.
I have more than 10lbs to lose. I never said I believed this diet is "healthy", but it is safe and short term. If I don't want to wait a year to lose 10lbs that's my choice and I have the right not to be judged for that. LOGIC dictates you can lose 1lb per week be creating a 3,500 cal deficit. My deficit is bigger than that and I'm losing less - I was simply asking for some insight into why that might be. Really.
I suspect excess Cortisol.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/146711890 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
right, everyone that disagrees with you has a "psychological" issue..I guess that is an improvement over everyone "misunderstanding" the five thousand contradictory statements that you come up with on a daily basis.
If you look over the advice that was given OP in this thread it was very meaningful, she just chose to lash out at everyone and keep saying "you do not understand me, I am different"....hey, wait a minute are you two sisters? You seem to think that everyone just does not "understand" you ...
See, Dee, it's this sort of stuff that's just laughable. Baseless accusation and ridiculous conclusory statements. I've had plenty of federal and state judges grant my motions. They seem to be able to follow my logic and arguments (as well as folks like Cortelli and Milk Flax). But, I'm sure they're all wrong -- and ndj1979, a random, oftentimes nasty poster on an anonymous fitness board is correct.
What a joke.
Also OP, you mention "free days". Are you treating the entire day as a free day, or did you mean the day in which you have a free meal? You've closed up your diary again, so I can't tell. I'm assuming your category 2, and so that would be one free meal a week and one 5 hour carb refeed per week.
ETA: Also, what is your exercise like?0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
Lindsey, I don't know how to tell you this, but you frequently use "per se" incorrectly.
I know this is nitpicky, but it bothers me and I can't help myself.
I think that what you are trying to say in the sentence above is: "I don't know what their issues are, but they're significant." "Per se" means "intrinsically" and really isn't applicable in this context.
Also, "personal psychological issues" is redundant. What other kinds of psychological issues would a person have? Non-personal?
Please just relax. You're trying too hard, honey.
I'm pretty sure I'm using per se correctly. It also means "of, or in itself". It's the same as saying, "I don't know what his personal psychological issue is, in an of itself, but it is significant." That is used correctly. Check the Chicago Manual of Style if you don't believe me.
As for psychological issues, there can be differentiation between those arising from internal reasons and those arising from external. Internal example would be someone with an inferiority complex having to go out of their way to bash other people -- like we see on this site -- and that's what I was referring to as personal rather than as a result of external, environmental source. External would be the anxiety and stressors one has to deal with as a result of being married to an alcoholic or drug addict.
I was using it loosely to indicate that the people that post nasty things unprovoked are doing so from an internal issue, not as self-defense or response to external stimuli (i.e. defending oneself from another's attack).0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
I know you're right, it's absolutely unhelpful and useless and total misunderstanding of the point of the thread. It's funny how some people can be so narrow-minded huh? This is how people get their kicks - sit behind a computer screen and abuse others. Sad state the world is in. All the trolls taking up the thread I need to go back and find your previous post
I used to think it was a genuine misunderstanding, and so I tried to explain and clarify. Some called that backpedaling. Others grossly mischaracterized prior statements. So, now, I'm fairly confident that it's intentional on their part. I suppose it could still be gross incompetence, but I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt on that.
I've seen it with ndj1979, QuietBloom, graceisjinxed (not as heavily with her -- but her last post is a good example). However, there are also some great people out there where I've had really interesting exchanges -- Cortelli, Milk Flax, etc. Keep the good; discard the bad.
Well there seems to be a lot of resistance to accepting other people's choices huh? Then they get upset when you retaliate to their rudeness. It's a lot of taking things out of context, twisting words and refusing to keep judgements to themselves. 90% of people are judgemental though, it's a real shame. I see it everywhere. I ask people something about a supplement for a diet experiment I'm doing and I get purposely vague so that I don't get judged on the diet but the responses I get are, "Why are you experimenting? Don't be stupid just eat a balanced diet". It's funny how people just can't help themselves!! hahaha. I mean I absolutely did expect it from here and even from Lyle's site but they are sooooo nice on that site
wait, you posted a thread saying you are not losing and ask for advice and you then say all the advice "will not work for you" but the people giving you advice are not accepting of your choices....eh????? You are the one that made the choice to go on this "diet" that is obviously not working for you ...
I am definitely calling troll on this one...
Oh my.....:D This is getting funny. You've all given me the exact same advice!! Stop this diet, go on a moderate calorie diet. I didn't say it won't work, I said I've tried it and it DIDN'T work. Big difference. How are you accepting my choices when all you're doing is criticising me for doing this diet and telling me to do something I've already done?? Please point where I actually said this diet is not working for me. I said the scale hadn't budged but measurements had gone down...I asked for any reasons this might be. I wasn't being a whiny kid saying "Boo hoo, this diet isn't working what should I do???" Reread the original post...I asked for possible reasons why the scale hasn't budged. The scale is NOT the only thing that measures fat loss. But see, all you're doing is twisting my words. Really can't see the point. You must be very bored.
Also pretty funny how you continuously call me a troll when you people are the ones hijacking my thread and spamming it with pages of abuse so that the ones who actually have some real insight into this diet can't get through. Go back under your bridge.0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
right, everyone that disagrees with you has a "psychological" issue..I guess that is an improvement over everyone "misunderstanding" the five thousand contradictory statements that you come up with on a daily basis.
If you look over the advice that was given OP in this thread it was very meaningful, she just chose to lash out at everyone and keep saying "you do not understand me, I am different"....hey, wait a minute are you two sisters? You seem to think that everyone just does not "understand" you ...
See, Dee, it's this sort of stuff that's just laughable. Baseless accusation and ridiculous conclusory statements. I've had plenty of federal and state judges grant my motions. They seem to be able to follow my logic and arguments (as well as folks like Cortelli and Milk Flax). But, I'm sure they're all wrong -- and ndj1979, a random, oftentimes nasty poster on an anonymous fitness board is correct.
What a joke.
wait, you are a lawyer now???
Ok then lindz - please go back through the advice given to OP and point out what was "baseless"...?0 -
Shhh... Shhh... Shhh... just let it happen.0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
right, everyone that disagrees with you has a "psychological" issue..I guess that is an improvement over everyone "misunderstanding" the five thousand contradictory statements that you come up with on a daily basis.
If you look over the advice that was given OP in this thread it was very meaningful, she just chose to lash out at everyone and keep saying "you do not understand me, I am different"....hey, wait a minute are you two sisters? You seem to think that everyone just does not "understand" you ...
See, Dee, it's this sort of stuff that's just laughable. Baseless accusation and ridiculous conclusory statements. I've had plenty of federal and state judges grant my motions. They seem to be able to follow my logic and arguments (as well as folks like Cortelli and Milk Flax). But, I'm sure they're all wrong -- and ndj1979, a random, oftentimes nasty poster on an anonymous fitness board is correct.
What a joke.
wait, you are a lawyer now???
Ok then lindz - please go back through the advice given to OP and point out what was "baseless"...?
I had this same thought- i though Lindz was a (bro)scientist after the calorie thread lol0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
Can I ask why? I'm not at risk of becoming anorexic, trust me. Binge eating was my problem and I haven't done that in a long time.0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
THIS.
And again, explains why you aren't able to lose the weight. Excess Cortisol, from PCOS and additionally the extra stress you are adding with the crash diets. And perhaps a suppressed metabolism.0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
right, everyone that disagrees with you has a "psychological" issue..I guess that is an improvement over everyone "misunderstanding" the five thousand contradictory statements that you come up with on a daily basis.
If you look over the advice that was given OP in this thread it was very meaningful, she just chose to lash out at everyone and keep saying "you do not understand me, I am different"....hey, wait a minute are you two sisters? You seem to think that everyone just does not "understand" you ...
See, Dee, it's this sort of stuff that's just laughable. Baseless accusation and ridiculous conclusory statements. I've had plenty of federal and state judges grant my motions. They seem to be able to follow my logic and arguments (as well as folks like Cortelli and Milk Flax). But, I'm sure they're all wrong -- and ndj1979, a random, oftentimes nasty poster on an anonymous fitness board is correct.
What a joke.
wait, you are a lawyer now???
Ok then lindz - please go back through the advice given to OP and point out what was "baseless"...?
I had this same thought- i though Lindz was a (bro)scientist after the calorie thread lol
Just my bachelors is in integrative biology, I got a JD later (same school though -- I undoubtedly bleed blue and gold).
I thought the lawyer thing was fairly obvious with my (1) verbosity, (2) tendency to clarify and point at nuance in arguments and (3) intransigence in certain topics.0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
Can I ask why? I'm not at risk of becoming anorexic, trust me. Binge eating was my problem and I haven't done that in a long time.
That, right there. On this type of diet, you are much more likely to binge than someone else.
And to answer your original question, deksgrl probably pretty much just nailed it.0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
THIS.
And again, explains why you aren't able to lose the weight. Excess Cortisol, from PCOS and additionally the extra stress you are adding with the crash diets. And perhaps a suppressed metabolism.
Over restriction can lead to binge eating0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
THIS.
And again, explains why you aren't able to lose the weight. Excess Cortisol, from PCOS and additionally the extra stress you are adding with the crash diets. And perhaps a suppressed metabolism.
I'm still throwing in for the thyroid since your TSH level puts you in overt hypothyrodism at over 3 (and yours were over 4).0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
Lindsey, I don't know how to tell you this, but you frequently use "per se" incorrectly.
I know this is nitpicky, but it bothers me and I can't help myself.
I think that what you are trying to say in the sentence above is: "I don't know what their issues are, but they're significant." "Per se" means "intrinsically" and really isn't applicable in this context.
Also, "personal psychological issues" is redundant. What other kinds of psychological issues would a person have? Non-personal?
Please just relax. You're trying too hard, honey.
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Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
THIS.
And again, explains why you aren't able to lose the weight. Excess Cortisol, from PCOS and additionally the extra stress you are adding with the crash diets. And perhaps a suppressed metabolism.
I'm still throwing in for the thyroid since your TSH level puts you in overt hypothyrodism at over 3 (and yours were over 4).
Perhaps that too. But even if it is not thyroid, she probably has enough going on with cortisol to prevent normal weight loss, paired with what damage there may have been to metabolism from past unhealthy eating.0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
THIS.
And again, explains why you aren't able to lose the weight. Excess Cortisol, from PCOS and additionally the extra stress you are adding with the crash diets. And perhaps a suppressed metabolism.
I'm still throwing in for the thyroid since your TSH level puts you in overt hypothyrodism at over 3 (and yours were over 4).
Perhaps that too. But even if it is not thyroid, she probably has enough going on with cortisol to prevent normal weight loss, paired with what damage there may have been to metabolism from past unhealthy eating.
True, true. And adrenal issues should be checked with thyroid concerns as they often impact one another. My doc checked mine for that very reason, though both cortisol and DHEA were in normal ranges along with the others.0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
Can I ask why? I'm not at risk of becoming anorexic, trust me. Binge eating was my problem and I haven't done that in a long time.
In addition, I don't know how much weight you have to lose, but have you considered working on body recomposition instead of just losing weight? I don't know if you've read Staci's story, but it's a great read. http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
She weighs 11lbs more in the photo on the right, but looks much smaller:
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Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
Can I ask why? I'm not at risk of becoming anorexic, trust me. Binge eating was my problem and I haven't done that in a long time.
In addition, I don't know how much weight you have to lose, but have you considered working on body recomposition instead of just losing weight? I don't know if you've read Staci's story, but it's a great read. http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
She weighs 11lbs more in the photo on the right, but looks much smaller:
I love Staci's story -- so motivational!0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
Lindsey, I don't know how to tell you this, but you frequently use "per se" incorrectly.
I know this is nitpicky, but it bothers me and I can't help myself.
I think that what you are trying to say in the sentence above is: "I don't know what their issues are, but they're significant." "Per se" means "intrinsically" and really isn't applicable in this context.
Also, "personal psychological issues" is redundant. What other kinds of psychological issues would a person have? Non-personal?
Please just relax. You're trying too hard, honey.
I'm pretty sure I'm using per se correctly. It also means "of, or in itself". It's the same as saying, "I don't know what his personal psychological issue is, in an of itself, but it is significant." That is used correctly. Check the Chicago Manual of Style if you don't believe me.
Still not correct, but you'll read no more from me in this thread.
I don't mind derailing a thread on occasion, but if OP has eating issues, I am ducking out of this one.0 -
Well I'm going to have more tests on my thyroid in a few months, but I went to see an endocrinologist in the past and he told me my thyroid was fine so even if it is sluggish how do I get anyone to do anything if they refuse to accept there's a problem? Very little specialists I can see outside of this without a ton of money to go private.
What you said makes me think about a few years ago when I gained 12lbs over 9 days over Christmas. Now these judegmental people on here will say, "Well you must have been stuffing yourself with an excess of 2,000 cals a day!" but to me that is excessive. I wasn't counting calories so I can't say how much I was eating but eating 3,000 cals in one day makes me so full I want to puke so I can't see it likely that I was consuming over 4,000 a day. I don't have ALL the signs of hypothyroid though...I believe my body temp is normal even though my hands and feet are ALWAYS cold.
Did you have to pay to see a specialist? The problem I see even if I am found to have a slow thryoid is that the treatment is thyroxine which doesn't seem to be hugely effective when it comes to weight. My mom has a friend who's got weight problems, was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, given thyroxine, but still struggles to lose weight :-/. I'm sure it'd be worth a try...my GP said if my thyroid is still borderline in a few months they'd trial me on some but went on about side effects and this is why they're hesitant to prescribe it. How did they treat you if you don't mind me asking? What medications? I do agree that doctors should be looking at what's optimal and not what's ok because it's only JUST outside of range. This is the strange thing...my first test showed borderline (4.3 or something), then months later 2 more tests were both around 2 or so. Then most recent one was 4.22, so I'll have to wait to see what the next one says. I have nothing to lose though so I will try push the issue next time...Lord what a relief it would be to not have to suffer so bad just to lose a couple of pounds! I'm sorry you had bad experiences with people being nasty to you too. I really don't understand why people don't believe it's possible that we're all different and metabolic issues are a REAL thing. Them saying that because they can lose weight on a certain amount of calories you must be able to too is like saying to someone in a wheelchair, "Well I can walk, so you must be able to walk too!" but just because they can't SEE it they can't believe it. They can't SEE what your body is doing inside so they refuse to believe it's not working optimally. It's very very narrow-minded.
I'm pretty sure by the current standards, you're overt hypothyroid now. The "normal" levels for TSH used to be 0.5 - 5.0. As a few years ago, they adjusted that to 0.3 - 3.0, putting your ranges in the clearly hypothyroid area at 4+. Having different readings with no treatment is common with Hashi's as people with Hashi's swing from hypo to normal to hyper depending on how much the immune system is attacking the thyroid at any given time -- so that may be what's happening (that's exactly what happened to me). You really need the antibody tests (read that article I linked to) -- some with Hashi's still won't show antibodies but the vast majority will. You need to find a doctor that can help you with this. Far too many docs and endos are terrible with this -- seriously, go to thyroid websites and you'll see such stories all the time. As I said, I saw 4 docs before I got where I needed to be -- 2 primary care and 2 actual endos. Plus, if you read that article I shared, it explains why if you have the antibodies of Hashi's, how many of the tests are ineffective as they don't know how much of the free T3 and T4 the antibodies are binding up and making ineffective. I too have a normal body temp and my hands and feet were cold ALL the time. You totally sound hypo, in some variation or another.
Unfortunately, I did end up going private and it is costly (first visit was $600, follow up visits $400 -- but I only have to see him once a year now). But, man, did I wish I'd spent the thousand+ (after the first few visits and all the labs) 10+ years ago as my insurance docs weren't getting it done at all. For me, I pay my doc directly and then he orders labs/tests through my insurance. If you go to thyroid sites, people will recommend folks or send you to sites for referrals for docs who specialize in thyroid (some are endos, some are family practitioners with an emphasis there, etc.).
If you can't go private at all, I'd start doing the research yourself about these tests and challenging your doctor on it. www.stopthethyroidmadness.com is good resource and you'll find soooo many people with similar stories to yours. You can also have labs done yourself through places like quest and mymedlab if your doctor refuses to order them. And, if none of that works, find a new doctor and keep looking for one that can answer these issues on thyroid.
As for treatment, I tried both synthetics (Synthroid which is just T4) but ended up preferring Nature-throid (which is a combination T3 and T4 drug -- it's natural dessicated thyroid). And it's cheap -- like less than $10/month -- and has been around many, many years. Some endos prefer the synthetics because the dosing in more precise and consistent, but the natural dessicated thyroid is still pretty good (and many docs like mine says the differential is negligible) -- and for whatever reason, some people like me just do better on it. In the end, I'm more concerned about symptoms than anything else and that works for me. In thyroid forums, you'll see big debates about synthetics (synthroid, cytomel) versus natural dessicated thyroid (Nature-throid, Armour, etc.). Personally, I wonder if the synthetic bias isn't somewhat linked to kickbacks to doctors.
As for the weight issues, thyroid is only part of the problem sometimes. For example, when we were investigating thyroid, he looked at a lot of stuff that can contribute to the overall picture -- adrenal issues, liver issues, blood/glucose issues, vitamin deficiencies, etc. He said if something is off (especially adrenal), you can first feel awful on thyroid treatment because another part of the equation is off (because when thyroid goes off, it can cause a cascade of things). So, before I started on thyroid treatment, he wanted to make sure everything else was where it should be -- and that's when he found the insulin resistance and vitamin D and magnesium deficiencies (which can also contribute to difficulty losing weight). So, it's totally possible that your mother's friend is fine as far as her thyroid goes (or it could be be undermedicated), but have some other issues like adrenal fatigue or insulin resistance which is creating a roadblock to weight loss.
And, thyroid medication doesn't make you lose weight per se. You still have to put in the hard work in diet and exercise (but you seem to have that part well under control). It just evens the playing field and means that people like us will be able to lose weight like a "normal" person. And that's exactly what happened for me once I got it all sorted out. But, man, do I wish I'd known this 10+ years ago. I could have stopped that sysphian struggle a long time ago.
As for the nasty people here (i.e. not the people that are genuinely helpful and kind). I figure it's either a fear thing --- they want things to be simple, so they insist on forcing those round pegs into square holes in order to comfort themselves about such issues -- or, like a lot of internet trolls, they're just sadists looking for vulnerable people to pick on. It's how they get their rocks off. I really wish the moderators actually moderated this because such disrespectful behavior is totally unnecessary and just drives people away. It will hurt them more in the end.
And the funny thing about the whole "special snowflake" thing some people throw around, it turns out I was that special snowflake apparently. Though, I've since learned, there are quite a few of us out there. For example, the American Thyroid Association estimates something like 20 million Americans have a thyroid disorder (60% of which are undiagnosed) and 12% of the population will have one at some point in their lives. Or, insulin resistance numbers are estimated at 80 million Americans or 25% of the population. That's a LOT of special snowflakes. Once you add in other things like adrenal issues, liver issues, diabetes, PCOS, etc. -- the numbers are pretty significant. If people are truly doing the eating and exercising and calculating of such faithfully as you appear to be, they probably are one of those special snowflakes.
I made it to page 3, 3 pages to go and I'm already jumping in. Jesus, Lindsey, how the F is this thread about you now? OP has said multiple times she is NOT insulin resistant and not hypothryoid. Yes, yes, we ALL know YOU'VE been tested, blah blah blah, and that's how you lost weight and yay for you.
Are you going to show up on everyone's thread and talk all about yourself and your tests and how you lost weight from those tests and forget completely about the OP?0 -
I'm pretty sure I'm using per se correctly. It also means "of, or in itself". It's the same as saying, "I don't know what his personal psychological issue is, in an of itself, but it is significant." That is used correctly. Check the Chicago Manual of Style if you don't believe me.
Still not correct, but you'll read no more from me in this thread.
I don't mind derailing a thread on occasion, but if OP has eating issues, I am ducking out of this one.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I feel pretty comfortable with my usage given my background, and you're the first person ever to state otherwise.0 -
Deethebee -- just let the other stuff go with the other posters. I've literally had similar conversations with many of them, ndj1979 in particular. It's useless. It's not a meaningful exchangs - people like him are not interested in an honest exchange of ideas (unlike someone like Cortelli who is). I don't know what their personal psychological issues are per se, but they're significant. It's just beating your head against the wall. I still can't resist doing it sometimes (though I'm trying), but at least I'm aware that I'm doing it now. Best to ignore them (trying to follow my own advice).
right, everyone that disagrees with you has a "psychological" issue..I guess that is an improvement over everyone "misunderstanding" the five thousand contradictory statements that you come up with on a daily basis.
If you look over the advice that was given OP in this thread it was very meaningful, she just chose to lash out at everyone and keep saying "you do not understand me, I am different"....hey, wait a minute are you two sisters? You seem to think that everyone just does not "understand" you ...
See, Dee, it's this sort of stuff that's just laughable. Baseless accusation and ridiculous conclusory statements. I've had plenty of federal and state judges grant my motions. They seem to be able to follow my logic and arguments (as well as folks like Cortelli and Milk Flax). But, I'm sure they're all wrong -- and ndj1979, a random, oftentimes nasty poster on an anonymous fitness board is correct.
What a joke.
wait, you are a lawyer now???
Ok then lindz - please go back through the advice given to OP and point out what was "baseless"...?
I had this same thought- i though Lindz was a (bro)scientist after the calorie thread lol
Just my bachelors is in integrative biology, I got a JD later (same school though -- I undoubtedly bleed blue and gold).
I thought the lawyer thing was fairly obvious with my (1) verbosity, (2) tendency to clarify and point at nuance in arguments and (3) intransigence in certain topics.
I guess that would explain the multitude of contradictory statements....0 -
Well I'm going to have more tests on my thyroid in a few months, but I went to see an endocrinologist in the past and he told me my thyroid was fine so even if it is sluggish how do I get anyone to do anything if they refuse to accept there's a problem? Very little specialists I can see outside of this without a ton of money to go private.
What you said makes me think about a few years ago when I gained 12lbs over 9 days over Christmas. Now these judegmental people on here will say, "Well you must have been stuffing yourself with an excess of 2,000 cals a day!" but to me that is excessive. I wasn't counting calories so I can't say how much I was eating but eating 3,000 cals in one day makes me so full I want to puke so I can't see it likely that I was consuming over 4,000 a day. I don't have ALL the signs of hypothyroid though...I believe my body temp is normal even though my hands and feet are ALWAYS cold.
Did you have to pay to see a specialist? The problem I see even if I am found to have a slow thryoid is that the treatment is thyroxine which doesn't seem to be hugely effective when it comes to weight. My mom has a friend who's got weight problems, was diagnosed with hypothyroidism, given thyroxine, but still struggles to lose weight :-/. I'm sure it'd be worth a try...my GP said if my thyroid is still borderline in a few months they'd trial me on some but went on about side effects and this is why they're hesitant to prescribe it. How did they treat you if you don't mind me asking? What medications? I do agree that doctors should be looking at what's optimal and not what's ok because it's only JUST outside of range. This is the strange thing...my first test showed borderline (4.3 or something), then months later 2 more tests were both around 2 or so. Then most recent one was 4.22, so I'll have to wait to see what the next one says. I have nothing to lose though so I will try push the issue next time...Lord what a relief it would be to not have to suffer so bad just to lose a couple of pounds! I'm sorry you had bad experiences with people being nasty to you too. I really don't understand why people don't believe it's possible that we're all different and metabolic issues are a REAL thing. Them saying that because they can lose weight on a certain amount of calories you must be able to too is like saying to someone in a wheelchair, "Well I can walk, so you must be able to walk too!" but just because they can't SEE it they can't believe it. They can't SEE what your body is doing inside so they refuse to believe it's not working optimally. It's very very narrow-minded.
I'm pretty sure by the current standards, you're overt hypothyroid now. The "normal" levels for TSH used to be 0.5 - 5.0. As a few years ago, they adjusted that to 0.3 - 3.0, putting your ranges in the clearly hypothyroid area at 4+. Having different readings with no treatment is common with Hashi's as people with Hashi's swing from hypo to normal to hyper depending on how much the immune system is attacking the thyroid at any given time -- so that may be what's happening (that's exactly what happened to me). You really need the antibody tests (read that article I linked to) -- some with Hashi's still won't show antibodies but the vast majority will. You need to find a doctor that can help you with this. Far too many docs and endos are terrible with this -- seriously, go to thyroid websites and you'll see such stories all the time. As I said, I saw 4 docs before I got where I needed to be -- 2 primary care and 2 actual endos. Plus, if you read that article I shared, it explains why if you have the antibodies of Hashi's, how many of the tests are ineffective as they don't know how much of the free T3 and T4 the antibodies are binding up and making ineffective. I too have a normal body temp and my hands and feet were cold ALL the time. You totally sound hypo, in some variation or another.
Unfortunately, I did end up going private and it is costly (first visit was $600, follow up visits $400 -- but I only have to see him once a year now). But, man, did I wish I'd spent the thousand+ (after the first few visits and all the labs) 10+ years ago as my insurance docs weren't getting it done at all. For me, I pay my doc directly and then he orders labs/tests through my insurance. If you go to thyroid sites, people will recommend folks or send you to sites for referrals for docs who specialize in thyroid (some are endos, some are family practitioners with an emphasis there, etc.).
If you can't go private at all, I'd start doing the research yourself about these tests and challenging your doctor on it. www.stopthethyroidmadness.com is good resource and you'll find soooo many people with similar stories to yours. You can also have labs done yourself through places like quest and mymedlab if your doctor refuses to order them. And, if none of that works, find a new doctor and keep looking for one that can answer these issues on thyroid.
As for treatment, I tried both synthetics (Synthroid which is just T4) but ended up preferring Nature-throid (which is a combination T3 and T4 drug -- it's natural dessicated thyroid). And it's cheap -- like less than $10/month -- and has been around many, many years. Some endos prefer the synthetics because the dosing in more precise and consistent, but the natural dessicated thyroid is still pretty good (and many docs like mine says the differential is negligible) -- and for whatever reason, some people like me just do better on it. In the end, I'm more concerned about symptoms than anything else and that works for me. In thyroid forums, you'll see big debates about synthetics (synthroid, cytomel) versus natural dessicated thyroid (Nature-throid, Armour, etc.). Personally, I wonder if the synthetic bias isn't somewhat linked to kickbacks to doctors.
As for the weight issues, thyroid is only part of the problem sometimes. For example, when we were investigating thyroid, he looked at a lot of stuff that can contribute to the overall picture -- adrenal issues, liver issues, blood/glucose issues, vitamin deficiencies, etc. He said if something is off (especially adrenal), you can first feel awful on thyroid treatment because another part of the equation is off (because when thyroid goes off, it can cause a cascade of things). So, before I started on thyroid treatment, he wanted to make sure everything else was where it should be -- and that's when he found the insulin resistance and vitamin D and magnesium deficiencies (which can also contribute to difficulty losing weight). So, it's totally possible that your mother's friend is fine as far as her thyroid goes (or it could be be undermedicated), but have some other issues like adrenal fatigue or insulin resistance which is creating a roadblock to weight loss.
And, thyroid medication doesn't make you lose weight per se. You still have to put in the hard work in diet and exercise (but you seem to have that part well under control). It just evens the playing field and means that people like us will be able to lose weight like a "normal" person. And that's exactly what happened for me once I got it all sorted out. But, man, do I wish I'd known this 10+ years ago. I could have stopped that sysphian struggle a long time ago.
As for the nasty people here (i.e. not the people that are genuinely helpful and kind). I figure it's either a fear thing --- they want things to be simple, so they insist on forcing those round pegs into square holes in order to comfort themselves about such issues -- or, like a lot of internet trolls, they're just sadists looking for vulnerable people to pick on. It's how they get their rocks off. I really wish the moderators actually moderated this because such disrespectful behavior is totally unnecessary and just drives people away. It will hurt them more in the end.
And the funny thing about the whole "special snowflake" thing some people throw around, it turns out I was that special snowflake apparently. Though, I've since learned, there are quite a few of us out there. For example, the American Thyroid Association estimates something like 20 million Americans have a thyroid disorder (60% of which are undiagnosed) and 12% of the population will have one at some point in their lives. Or, insulin resistance numbers are estimated at 80 million Americans or 25% of the population. That's a LOT of special snowflakes. Once you add in other things like adrenal issues, liver issues, diabetes, PCOS, etc. -- the numbers are pretty significant. If people are truly doing the eating and exercising and calculating of such faithfully as you appear to be, they probably are one of those special snowflakes.
I made it to page 3, 3 pages to go and I'm already jumping in. Jesus, Lindsey, how the F is this thread about you now? OP has said multiple times she is NOT insulin resistant and not hypothryoid. Yes, yes, we ALL know YOU'VE been tested, blah blah blah, and that's how you lost weight and yay for you.
Are you going to show up on everyone's thread and talk all about yourself and your tests and how you lost weight from those tests and forget completely about the OP?
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/narcissism0 -
I'm pretty sure I'm using per se correctly. It also means "of, or in itself". It's the same as saying, "I don't know what his personal psychological issue is, in an of itself, but it is significant." That is used correctly. Check the Chicago Manual of Style if you don't believe me.
Still not correct, but you'll read no more from me in this thread.
I don't mind derailing a thread on occasion, but if OP has eating issues, I am ducking out of this one.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that. I feel pretty comfortable with my usage given my background, and you're the first person ever to state otherwise.
LOL here you go again. Yes, yes, we know you are smarter than everyone :rollseyes:
ETA: My bad, you are smarter than 99% of the people in the U.S. :laugh:0 -
Dee,
I just took a quick look at your post history. Based on what I saw, my recommendation is this: get off the RFLD now. With your history, this is not a good plan for you.
Can I ask why? I'm not at risk of becoming anorexic, trust me. Binge eating was my problem and I haven't done that in a long time.
That, right there. On this type of diet, you are much more likely to binge than someone else.
And to answer your original question, deksgrl probably pretty much just nailed it.
Yeah I know and it is hard but I've tried to get help for it and been unsuccessful so I have to deal with it myself. I do agree that I'm much more likely to binge, but I am much better at coping with it now. If I feel that I'm getting to the stage that it's too much for me I stop. I can feel it coming a mile away and this is why I can't eat nothing at all but thought this diet would actually be helpful because 1. on a moderate calorie deficit the emotional side is worse because progress is painfully slow and I end up gaining weight and 2. I just absolutely cannot stand the idea of being overweight for the rest of my life because of a bloody ED that I've worked hard at fixing....:(0 -
I made it to page 3, 3 pages to go and I'm already jumping in. Jesus, Lindsey, how the F is this thread about you now? OP has said multiple times she is NOT insulin resistant and not hypothryoid. Yes, yes, we ALL know YOU'VE been tested, blah blah blah, and that's how you lost weight and yay for you.
Are you going to show up on everyone's thread and talk all about yourself and your tests and how you lost weight from those tests and forget completely about the OP?
When she says things that point to such issues, I believe it's relevant. Here are the factors:
(1) She stated over and over again that caloric deficit wasn't producing the anticipated results
(2) She stated over and over again that she was confident in calorie counting and gave examples to support that
(3) She said that she did have certain symptoms of hypothryoid -- hands and feet that were cold all the time, difficulty losing weight, unexplained weight gain
(4) Oh, and most of all a blood test of TSH showing actual hypothyroidism.
I know a lot of people like to jump on others and tell them that they're crazy, can't count calories correctly, are lying, etc., but sometimes there are actual valid reasons for the pieces not adding up. Oh, so terrible of me for sharing my experience in a highly analogous situation.
And the OP asked follow up questions, indicating that she was quite interested in my experience and learning more. I even received an email from someone thanking me for that same post, but chooses to stay off the forums because of all the bad behavior. Yes, that is truly a terrible thing that I'm sharing my experience and knowledge gained along the way -- just like all the other helpful posters do.
You're going to feel really stupid when you bother to read the next 3-4 pages. Try harder.0
This discussion has been closed.
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