Your food is no cleaner than mine
Options
Replies
-
You might not have thought about this, but you can eat " clean " ( I am using that word, because this is what the thread is about, even though I don't like the expression ) and also eat IIFYM. It is a mistake to automatically assume that IIFYM can only be done while eating " dirty " ( or partially dirty ) as it is a mistake to assume that automatically all people who eat clean also will meet their macros without efforts.
I eat a natural diet and still need to plan to get all my macros and once they are met, I eat exactly what I want paying no attention to the specific nutritional value of my food, just like any " dirty " eater. But I do eat within a deficit and have lost 50 pounds.
Agreed, why wouldn't that be so? One thing I've been frustrated about is this idea, promulgated by some "clean" eaters that they are the only ones who eat "clean," as they define it, that the use of the term somehow makes them more healthy than others, more concerned about what they eat. Especially for the reasonable types who say that they aren't freaking out about the idea that some added sugar or the occasional processed item might pass their lips, but are just focused on eating more "clean," my guess is that they eat pretty similarly to many people concerned about having a healthy diet who don't self-identify as "clean eaters," and I'd imagine that would include people in the IIFYM camp.
One reason I'd never take on the label "clean eater," in addition to just hating the term and not actually being opposed to all processed food and "unnatural" apects of the food industry (for example, I live in Illinois, if I had to eat only locally grown stuff I'd have a pretty dull several months when it comes to fresh fruits and vegetables), is that I dislike the idea that only people who subscribe to a special "clean" program care about what they eat, health, so on. If anything, I bet the split between people who use the term and those who don't is more a debate about how bad the effects of eating the occasional processed food, added sugar, so on is, and probably a broader debate about whether the existence of lots of foods with added sugar, processed, with wheat or refined grains (depending on your particular segment of clean eating) is responsible for our public health problems.0 -
Why not just call it food? I don't label my food, other than to say, "breakfast," "lunch," "dinner," "dessert," or "snack."
Balance is definitely relative to lifestyle, just as "yummy" food or "gross" food is relative to taste buds.
Because we label everything. Everything. Dinner is a label. Its what humans do to make sense of the world around them. Its how we know what we are looking at or for. Its how we decide on one thing versus another.
Dinner is a label for the food I eat during dinner time. There is no connotation to it.
It is still a label. Any connotation you apply to a label is your issue with the label. If what you eat matters not and labels are not important, why even label it dinner, why not just say my 3rd meal consisted of, or i ate XYZ after work? You do so, so people know you are talking abut the meal you eat later in the day, its easier, shorter and quicker. If i object to the label dinner for whatever reason i make up, it's my issue right? Same premise. I say i eat clean because its shorter and easier then explaining my diet in detail. Most rationally thinking people understand that means i cook at home using fresh raw whole food and don't buy premade foods or foods that have a lot of additives. My exact diet is not important. Just like what you eat for dinner isn't irrelevant to the phrase "i eat dinner at 6 everyday". But if asked you will explain it in more details.(I had this food for dinner. I do not eat xyz in my diet) And then if you happen to be on MFP, your choices get labeled as wrong and people demand you defend and explain them and then push their preferred method of diet on you. If it turns out in 20 years that added sugar really isn't unhealthy for you at all, then I am still not harming myself by avoiding it. Its still means i eat more healthier foods (like fresh veggies and fruit) and makes it easier to reach my goals.
The connotation is the difference. "Clean" has a plethora of connotation. "Dinner" has none at all.
Only because you assign it one... that was my point. You may replace the label dinner, with any label of your choosing that will help you understand my point..
Everyone assigns it a connotation, some differing more than others. Your point is moot.
which makes this entire conversation moot. I don't assign it a bad connotation. Just like i don't assign paleo or primal or WW etc a bad connotation. I don't agree with a bunch of those diets, but I don't view it as those people saying "i am superior to you because I eat chosen diet". If you do *that's your problem* not the person describing their diet.
I'm not going to sit here and type out a paragraph describing my diet, because it might offend you, when saying "i eat clean" does the same thing in 3 little words.
No, of course you don't. How silly. You are missing the point so much that you can't even get your own argument straight.
You assign it a "good" connotation, as in, "It's good to eat clean." I say, "Just call it dinner. Everybody has to eat."0 -
The original article really helped me put my finger on why I find 'clean' eaters so objectionable sometimes - usually I truly don't mind hearing about what people eat, especially when it's working for them long-term (one of those miraculous lifestyle changes we hear about).
I do mind, however, when people complain that they're eating clean but still not losing weight, or assume that I'm eating clean because I'm trying to lose weight. IMO, 'clean' is more of a marketing term. You can sell books based on the premise of clean-eating, your magazine will sell more if it contains clean recipes, and clean-eating websites can generate loads of ad revenue.
No one is making money on the eat-whatever-you-want-but-learn-portion-control and move-more and lift-heavy-so-you-can-eat-even-MORE diet. Yet.
Yes! Exactly. It's this whole thing with clean eating plans and recipes and books and so on. If all it is is eating whole foods that you cook yourself, what is a plan for? Why do you need special recipes? Get a standard cook book and buy food. Jeez. Everything has to be some kind of special diet.0 -
You do know that Freud was crazy....right ?
Crazy =/= periodically addicted to cocaine.0 -
... probably as a result of not eating clean.In general, when I find someone who is super stuck on the clean, pure, natural, holiness of their food, I assume they're, in some very solid way, substituting food for where ideas about sexual morality would be on their inner map.
As a species, we're a little fixated on attaching non-anxiety-producing meaning anything engulfed by a body part.
So, slap that in Freud's cigar and smoke it.
/end being above it all
You do know that Freud was crazy....right ?
No way. He lived in Ye Olden Tymes. Surely, his food was all pure as the driven snow.0 -
You do know that Freud was crazy....right ?
Crazy =/= periodically addicted to cocaine.
Though long-term cocaine use can induce delusions, not to mention hallucinations and pre-occupation with sex.0 -
... probably as a result of not eating clean.In general, when I find someone who is super stuck on the clean, pure, natural, holiness of their food, I assume they're, in some very solid way, substituting food for where ideas about sexual morality would be on their inner map.
As a species, we're a little fixated on attaching non-anxiety-producing meaning anything engulfed by a body part.
So, slap that in Freud's cigar and smoke it.
/end being above it all
You do know that Freud was crazy....right ?
No way. He lived in Ye Olden Tymes. Surely, his food was all pure as the driven snow.
Oh, yes, that's the other "clean" thing, not to mention "paleo" thing. Modern food is killing us! Arg! Think of the children! There ought to be a law. blah, blah, blah0 -
... probably as a result of not eating clean.In general, when I find someone who is super stuck on the clean, pure, natural, holiness of their food, I assume they're, in some very solid way, substituting food for where ideas about sexual morality would be on their inner map.
As a species, we're a little fixated on attaching non-anxiety-producing meaning anything engulfed by a body part.
So, slap that in Freud's cigar and smoke it.
/end being above it all
You do know that Freud was crazy....right ?
No way. He lived in Ye Olden Tymes. Surely, his food was all pure as the driven snow.
Oh, yes, that's the other "clean" thing, not to mention "paleo" thing. Modern food is killing us! Arg! Think of the children! There ought to be a law. blah, blah, blah
RIGHT. Before the TOXIC WHEAT and the OLEOMARGARINE!0 -
The real problem with the term "clean" is, as the OP points out, it has no universally agreed-upon definition. As such, to say you eat "clean" is a relatively meaningless statement because that could mean any number of things, and if you say you eat 80% clean then it's completely meaningless in my opinion. To me, it generally means what you prepare starts with fresh meat and vegetables, rather than, say, a box and a packet of powder - but even that's pretty squishy and there are examples where I couldn't tell you if it's "clean" or not.
Personally though, I don't care about how other people eat. If you call what you eat "clean", that's fine by me. If you for some reason love Taco Bell, more power to you. It only really becomes an issue when someone is advising someone else that they "have to" eat clean (again, whatever that means), but more often these arguments start because someone simply mentions the term rather than they're giving bad advise.0 -
Oh fatfree, I'm disappointed. Especially considering I consider you one of my most supportive friend yet I'm pretty sure I'm probably one of the "dirtiest eaters" on your friends list.The only people here who boast & brag about their food are the "dirty eaters." I don't see clean eaters posting threads about "30 day spinach challenges" or "30 day apple challenges."
"Dirty eaters" are the only people here who try to push their diet beliefs on others.
Yes, you can eat cake and lose weight. Yes, you can eat Chipotle and lose weight. Yes, you can eat pizza and lose weight. The fact of the matter is there are plenty of people out there who simply don't want to incorporate those foods into their diet because 1) they don't have the willpower to do so, 2) it isn't worth the calories, and 3) it isn't worth the crappy feeling you experience afterward.
It's all fine and dandy that there are people here who can eat whatever the hell they want all while losing weight. But the reality is that not everyone is mentally capable of that. Not everyone is in the right frame of mind to do that. Telling someone who weighs 400 lbs and has a fast food obsession that it's fine for them to eat fast food during their weight loss initially is NOT going to go over well. This person needs to avoid fast food because they simply aren't ready to eat fast food in moderation yet. They don't know what moderation is because they've never counted calories or macros before.
That's where you "dirty eaters" go wrong.
You are one of the "dirty eaters" on my FL. I have a lot of "dirty eaters" on my FL though. I don't shame you or them for eating cake, ice cream, cookies, bagels, etc. I think it's great. My problem is when people who eat "dirty" don't understand that not everyone is going to have the willpower to eat those foods in moderation. It is hard for many people to eat "dirty foods" in moderation, especially those who are new to calorie counting, like I said in my first post.
I agree for many of us it is better to jusy cut out certain foods until we have a handle on the " moderation " concept. I don't like the assumption that as far as " dirty " food is concerned it is always about willpower or the lack of it. Clean eaters also have to practice willpower.
Why the assumption that all " delicious food " that should be eaten in moderation to lose weight must be bacon, hamburgers, pop tarts, pizza, ice cream, Chipotle and all the other stuff. I have yet to read a thread of anyone who had a cheat meal of home made whole wheat pasta Alfredo with broccoli and four-cheese sauce. They pack as many calories as " dirty " foods.
My not eating bacon, pizza, fast food and similar things is because I don't like them. I like other things better....but also have to stay away from them or use my will power, because I can easily overeat on them....rice and vegetables with cheese sauce, or cheese.......I stayed away from them for a year and now am trying to see if I got what it takes.....moderation wise.
Moderation is difficult for many of us, no matter if the food is dirty or clean.0 -
Why not? Why can't we brag about our ice cream/gelato cleanse? Does it make you uncomfortable? Does it give you the urge to lose self control and go eat some? Are you jealous? Do you even gelato?
Seriously. I'm not a healthy eater by any means, love me some pop tarts icecream or whatever but this is getting so old :yawn: Eat what you wanna eat, let others eat what they wanna eat, no need to brag about your ice cream/gelato cleanse or whatever it is you're doing. WHO CARES /end thread
I'm assuming jealousy...
No not jealous. If I want ice cream, I go get some and fit it into my day. I don't want it every day. But when I do want it I plan for it like most people here. No need to "lose control" when one learns moderation. Ice cream used to be a big deal for me back in my starve/binge days. Now, not so much.
All I was saying was the clean vs. dirty war around here has gotten boring. That's it. But keep on beating that dead horse, guyzzzz!!!0 -
I agree for many of us it is better to jusy cut out certain foods until we have a handle on the " moderation " concept. I don't like the assumption that as far as " dirty " food is concerned it is always about willpower or the lack of it. Clean eaters also have to practice willpower.
Agreed, but beyond this, I'm not sure why who is using the most willpower is a particularly good way to determine whose way is better. That actually falls somewhat into the trap of claiming more rigorous=better, which is related to food choices as evidence of virtue. IMO, the best diet is one that isn't hard, doesn't require will power all the time, because if you are succeeding by white knuckling on a regular basis, you aren't on a firm footing. I suspect both those successful with low carb or paleo or "clean" (ugh) type plans AND those successful with moderation type plans have found ways so that they enjoy how they are eating and feel like it's how they would generally choose to eat, not deprivation in any meaningful way. That's where I actually appreciate the focus on positive things like eating in a healthy way, celebrating the pleasures of nutrient dense foods, etc.--humans typically are more able to comply when they see what they are doing as adding a positive change vs. giving up something they love.I have yet to read a thread of anyone who had a cheat meal of home made whole wheat pasta Alfredo with broccoli and four-cheese sauce.
I don't eat "cheat" meals, but that could be one of mine (well, okay, I wouldn't use whole wheat pasta). Surely people have lots of higher calorie, uh, special occasion meals that consist of homemade food. I had a whole menu for Easter that wasn't that extreme, but started with leg of lamb, roasted potatoes in the fat from the lamb, etc.0 -
Since my clean is better than my snatch does that mean that my snatch is dirty? Does that mean my clean is shaming my dirty snatch?0
-
I think that sometimes any of us may be a little too touchy.
Sometimes, other people don't mean anything bad about us, and still we feel insulted.
This is a thing that's completely uncorrelated with dieting and food. It's just a thing that I noticed a lot... people that get offended by remarks (not mine) that I find completely harmless.
Also, I notice that if I fear for whatever reason to be judged, I usually end feeling that someone judged me... while if I'm completely confident in what I'm doing... that won't happen.
This is so true. I've found in RL talking about my choice, and my diet around certain others is very upsetting for them.
I also can relate, because there is a certain subject which I won't go into here, but when people start bragging about it, or talking about it, I am liable to get so upset I go to a bathroom and cry.
Only difference is diet, exercise and weight are within the control of most people, the issue that throws me off is not in my control at all, but that is completely beside the point. But in both cases the cray comes from internal issues and not the person mindlessly telling what to them is a harmless story, whether it's me talking about my low-carb meat pie or someone else never meaning to be offensive but chattering on about a topic that sets me off.0 -
Everyone is just trying to find a solution to a problem. Why is one way better than another? If it works for them -- good for them! I've never been a "clean" eater, but I would never call myself a dirty eater... that sounds gross. I'm going to try a clean diet, just to see what it is all about. If I don't like it... no one is holding a gun to my head forcing me to eat clean and I'll continue my journey.
Why must we all attack each others lifestyles -- when we all want the same thing?0 -
I'm so glad this got posted today ...
I can have my Jersey Tomato Pie pizza all for my husband and myself.... and then I can wash it down with my wine. And don't have to worry sharing it with Clean Eating folks.
I think you're okay, most clean eaters have the sense to stay away from the flame baiting threads - maybe they know what the outcome will be:
Out numbered and shouted down to!
I'm just a glutton for punishment!
To OP: Don't worry though I don't always buy organic! Does that give me brownie points in your book?? Oh wait, I don't need YOUR approval of what I put into my mouth and I sure as hell don't care what goes into yours. Sorry you think some of us are so judgy
0 -
I do however see people on here as well as in life who label food as dirty. Or, those that say don't eat this food because you it will make you gain weight. The food itself will not make you lose weight. Eating to much of anything can make you gain weight. Some of it just takes a whole lot more so it's a better option. What a person eats is their business. What a lot of people have issue with is that some clean eaters will claim that it is the only way to lose weight and all processed food is so bad for you.
A person has the right to believe differently then others. If I believe added sugar is wholly unhealthy or processed foods is the reason we are all obese, then that is my business. I am free to express that opinion and you are free to express yours.
Oh I agree. But, with that keep as an opinion. Not the end all, be all of nutrition. I believe that people give their opinion as fact most of the time. This often confuses or frustrates those that are new and trying to lose weight. One way is not going to work for everyone.
Is that your opinion or a fact? :laugh:
haha.. love it!!
*a lot* of people are guilty of the 'end all and be all" guru of nutrition. And a lot of them label themselves as iifym believer. If it true for me, then it's true for you. (generic me and you)
wrong. I recall a (rather recent) subway thread where op asked what is healthy there and a huge argument erupted over what exactly healthy eating means and how it applies to subway.As someone pointed out if "clean eaters" just say "I eat healthy" then there would be debate on what that means.
I used to date a guy that was trying to eat healthy, and I just got all kinds of strange emotional combinations when he told me about his new "healthy" choice that day.
Now we're good friends, eat the same diet, and he's lost something like 60 lbs.
But let's be honest here, a "clean" eater cringes to hear someone made a healthy choice by eating a Lean Cuisine, a low carb-er gets a bit repulsed when their iifym friend eats a gigantic sandwich, a vegetarian hair stands up slightly when a Paleo girl tears into a gigantic roast, a Paleo girl gets twisted hearing about a vegans tofu and beans curry. This is a funny list it could go on forever.
We're on a forum, so we talk about it. So whatever. It's kind of funny, if you ask me.0 -
Everyone is just trying to find a solution to a problem. Why is one way better than another? If it works for them -- good for them! I've never been a "clean" eater, but I would never call myself a dirty eater... that sounds gross. I'm going to try a clean diet, just to see what it is all about. If I don't like it... no one is holding a gun to my head forcing me to eat clean and I'll continue my journey.
Why must we all attack each others lifestyles -- when we all want the same thing?
Yes. We all want exactly the same thing. We're all here for the same reason . . .
Perhaps. Just maybe, people are sharing their tips for success however they define it. For me, that means continued strength gains balanced against not getting too much body fat while simultaneously minimizing the restrictions I put on myself. In other words, I want the most for the least. IIFYM allows me to focus on what matters without getting bogged down in pointless distinctions such as "clean" and debates about what that means. I can define my macro needs and I can find countless ways to satisfy them. It provides a well-reasoned answer to "can I eat this?"0 -
In general, when I find someone who is super stuck on the clean, pure, natural, holiness of their food, I assume they're, in some very solid way, substituting food for where ideas about sexual morality would be on their inner map.
As a species, we're a little fixated on attaching non-anxiety-producing meaning anything engulfed by a body part.
So, slap that in Freud's cigar and smoke it.
/end being above it all
I'm confused. Are you placing meaning on said pipe thats engulfed entirely in Freud' s sexy orifice?? :huh:0 -
What makes "I eat clean" more self-righteous than "Have some self control and willpower and eat in moderation?"
Why is it not food shaming to acknowledge that some foods are 80 foods and some are 20 foods?
Someone referenced a Snickers bar in this thread as the "20 %. I've seen Snickers defended as "just food" for the protein and healthy fats it contains. Why is it only food shaming or self-righteous when someone who uses the word clean says it? (Sorry I just can't take the term food shaming seriously, and I'm pretty anti-shame. If people can say food shame, I can say junk food or empty calories, dangit. Both of which I enjoy)
(Of course there are self-righteous clean eaters, and eat in moderation eaters, and everyone.)
I do agree that the word "clean eating" is not really definable due to user variance and should not be thought of as a distinct diet because of that. It's why others get confused when people say they eat Paleo but eat lots of cookies or cakes or candies, or people who say they are vegetarian but eat fish or poultry, or people who say they eat gluten free but don't count the favorite breakfast muffin ...0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.7K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 395 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 960 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions