cut the SUGAR out

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  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    My comments before still apply. It doesn't focus at all on how sucrose is different from fructose (except in likelihood of overconsumption), but focuses on ambiguous results of cohort studies and the theory that increased sugar consumption has led to a more overweight population, which itself is a health problem. NONE of it addresses my question about moderate consumption.
    As with most other dietary constituents, long-term trial data relating sugar consumption to the development of CVD events are unavailable. Longitudinal cohort studies relating sugar consumption to CVD are equivocal because of the many potential confounders that cannot be adequately controlled in the analyses. Shorter-term studies* show consistent adverse effects of sugar consumption on HDL and triglyceride levels, which could accelerate atherosclerosis. High sugar consumption may worsen diabetes control, and the combination of sugar with protein and fats promotes formation of dietary AGEs, which may be especially detrimental to those with diabetes. Although increasing the amount of sugar in an isocaloric diet does not directly lead to changes in energy expenditure or weight gain in controlled feeding studies, high-sugar foods, which are sweet and calorie dense, may increase calorie consumption and lead to weight gain. Furthermore, replacement of whole foods with high-sugar foods compromises attainment of adequate dietary vitamin and mineral intake from whole food sources.

    In the absence of definitive evidence, recommendations must rely on professional judgment. No data suggest that sugar intake per se is advantageous, and some data suggest it may be detrimental. The studies above, taken in total, indicate that high sugar intake should be avoided.

    *Specifically, "There have been a number of studies that link sugar consumption to hypertension in animals. In humans, there is one report that high dietary sugar intake enhances the risk of CHD in diabetic individuals who use diuretics." How likely is it that the animal studies focus on moderate consumption?
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    I shouldn't have posted the link to the abstract, apologies.

    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/106/4/523.full

    The Summary and Conclusions from that link seem less definitive than the conclusions of the "sugar is bad" side of this argument:
    As with most other dietary constituents, long-term trial data relating sugar consumption to the development of CVD events are unavailable. Longitudinal cohort studies relating sugar consumption to CVD are equivocal because of the many potential confounders that cannot be adequately controlled in the analyses. Shorter-term studies show consistent adverse effects of sugar consumption on HDL and triglyceride levels, which could accelerate atherosclerosis. High sugar consumption may worsen diabetes control, and the combination of sugar with protein and fats promotes formation of dietary AGEs, which may be especially detrimental to those with diabetes. Although increasing the amount of sugar in an isocaloric diet does not directly lead to changes in energy expenditure or weight gain in controlled feeding studies, high-sugar foods, which are sweet and calorie dense, may increase calorie consumption and lead to weight gain. Furthermore, replacement of whole foods with high-sugar foods compromises attainment of adequate dietary vitamin and mineral intake from whole food sources.

    In the absence of definitive evidence, recommendations must rely on professional judgment. No data suggest that sugar intake per se is advantageous, and some data suggest it may be detrimental. The studies above, taken in total, indicate that high sugar intake should be avoided. Sugar has no nutritional value other than to provide calories. To improve the overall nutrient density of the diet and to help reduce the intake of excess calories, individuals should be sure foods high in added sugar are not displacing foods with essential nutrients or increasing calorie intake.


    ETA: Whoops. I guess this was already covered a few minutes ago.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    No reason to hate on sugar (like we have done for fats), and no reason to worship it on an altar either. Moderation and common sense along with some sustained physical activity, over and over again appear to be the solution.

    I personally agree with this. However, you state them as a "both sides do it" thing and it's not. Here, it seems to me that we have people who think we should hate on sugar (like fats indeed), and no one at all who is saying that immoderate consumption is fine and dandy as a health matter or that we should all eat our requisite share of sugar each day as a sacrifice to the sugar god.
  • Joanne_Moniz
    Joanne_Moniz Posts: 347 Member
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    REFINED sugar has been linked to heart problems and should be consumed sparingly, so good for you, OP.

    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/120/11/1011

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130614165135.htm

    That's not what either of those articles seem to me to be saying, although perhaps a more science-oriented person could elaborate if I am wrong.

    The first is basically about how excessive consumption of sugar can lead to obesity which is itself a risk:
    Although trial data are limited, evidence from observational studies indicates that a higher intake of soft drinks is associated with greater energy intake, higher body weight, and lower intake of essential nutrients. National survey data also indicate that excessive consumption of added sugars is contributing to overconsumption of discretionary calories by Americans.

    I don't see how that supports a claim that there's something special about "refined" sugar vs. that found naturally in carrots or peaches. In addition, I don't see how a claim based on quite high consumption by Americans on average indicates that there is some health benefit to eliminating all added sugar. Indeed, if one finds it easier to stick to a weight loss plan or sustain a healthy weight by including sugar or simply prefers one's oatmeal with a bit of sugar, the same argument would say that it's healthier to do so.

    The second is again about too much sugar and again doesn't seem to be limited to "refined sugar" at all, but is about a molecule called G6P which is said to accumulate from "eating too much starch and/or sugar."

    As others have said already, I don't think there's much controversy that too much of almost anything is bad for you, and sugar is no exception. Where I am not following the argument is why that means everyone should always eschew "added sugar" in all cases.

    I'm not an expert, but refined sugar is sucrose. Sucrose is a combination of glucose and fructose. It metabolizes differently and can spike blood sugar levels. The sugars found in fruits and grains are made up of a combination of glucose, fructose, and sucrose, it various by food source but it is accompanied by fiber - fiber slows the digestion process and helps keep sugar spikes in check. That applies to whole raw food, it begins to change when foods are cooked. There are (to me) a host of complicated monosacchirides and disacchirides and the enterocytes in the intestine walls play a part too. There are 2 different metabolic pathways. I slept through a LOT of my labs in college, I'm not really a science person, so I can't go any further than what I did. My cardiologist told me to restrict refined sugar and table salt - so I do. It goes beyond eating whatever a person wants in moderation.

    I think most people are respectful but we have to realize that there are 40 m people on this site. There have been many discussions but I think the general consensus is to just ignore those who are not.

    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity Group
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
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    REFINED sugar has been linked to heart problems and should be consumed sparingly, so good for you, OP.

    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/120/11/1011

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130614165135.htm

    That's not what either of those articles seem to me to be saying, although perhaps a more science-oriented person could elaborate if I am wrong.

    The first is basically about how excessive consumption of sugar can lead to obesity which is itself a risk:
    Although trial data are limited, evidence from observational studies indicates that a higher intake of soft drinks is associated with greater energy intake, higher body weight, and lower intake of essential nutrients. National survey data also indicate that excessive consumption of added sugars is contributing to overconsumption of discretionary calories by Americans.

    I don't see how that supports a claim that there's something special about "refined" sugar vs. that found naturally in carrots or peaches. In addition, I don't see how a claim based on quite high consumption by Americans on average indicates that there is some health benefit to eliminating all added sugar. Indeed, if one finds it easier to stick to a weight loss plan or sustain a healthy weight by including sugar or simply prefers one's oatmeal with a bit of sugar, the same argument would say that it's healthier to do so.

    The second is again about too much sugar and again doesn't seem to be limited to "refined sugar" at all, but is about a molecule called G6P which is said to accumulate from "eating too much starch and/or sugar."

    As others have said already, I don't think there's much controversy that too much of almost anything is bad for you, and sugar is no exception. Where I am not following the argument is why that means everyone should always eschew "added sugar" in all cases.

    I'm not an expert, but refined sugar is sucrose. Sucrose is a combination of glucose and fructose. It metabolizes differently and can spike blood sugar levels. The sugars found in fruits and grains are made up of a combination of glucose, fructose, and sucrose, it various by food source but it is accompanied by fiber - fiber slows the digestion process and helps keep sugar spikes in check. That applies to whole raw food, it begins to change when foods are cooked. There are (to me) a host of complicated monosacchirides and disacchirides and the enterocytes in the intestine walls play a part too. There are 2 different metabolic pathways. I slept through a LOT of my labs in college, I'm not really a science person, so I can't go any further than what I did. My cardiologist told me to restrict refined sugar and table salt - so I do. It goes beyond eating whatever a person wants in moderation.

    I think most people are respectful but we have to realize that there are 40 m people on this site. There have been many discussions but I think the general consensus is to just ignore those who are not.

    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity Group

    Ignore those who are not of the 40 m (?). Those who are/not discussing? I am so confused...
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
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    I know enough about body building that 80% of your physique is Diet.

    You're right-- but as long as you are in a calorie deficit, whether you eat sugar or not, you will lose weight. So why not just limit sugar but allow yourself a treat (if you want one).

    I have seen so much of this on the boards and members being attacked when they disagree and it just floors me. I have Hashimoto's and calories in/calories out DOES NOT WORK FOR ME and I am NOT the only one. Not everyone processes sugar the same way. Not everyone processes fat the same way. Not everyone can even absorb nutrients the same. Some people suffer from hormonal fluctuations, endocrine disruptors, and insulin resistance. Some have auto-immune diseases. For that matter losing weight (decreasing fat) and building muscle are not the same., but I often see them referred to like they are the same creature on these boards. Lipolysis is the breakdown of stored fat, hypertrophy is building muscle - good luck trying to do both at once.

    Why is it so difficult to simply support someone's decision to make a decision for themselves they feel good about, that isn't detrimental to their health? OP didn't say they were giving up water or breathing or eating in general. This kind of bs is why I left here initially. Zero respect. No offense to the person posting what I quoted. I just grabbed it because of the calories in/calories out and it was easily available instead of going back through the thread.

    I have Hashimotos. It is still calories in, calories out. Your amount in to lose weight, maintain, or gain is different from anyone else's, true. But it is still the same equation.
  • NOMORECARS
    NOMORECARS Posts: 156
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    This time I am trying to cut out SUGAR. By not adding sugar or eating things with so much sugar in them. Unfortunately here in America we love sugar and most things have sugar in them, but I am working on it. I am craving sweet things by the afternoon I am also feeling quite a bit more tired with out all the added sugar in my diet. This is like day two hopefully by weeks end I will be feeling alot better....

    Do you have any helpful hints on how to cut sugar from my diet?

    Get rid of your car and your television. These are the two main things in your life keeping you motionless. Once you get rid of these your body will be forced to move under its own power and muscular activity uses up sugar. Before cars and television, nobody seemed to worry about how much they were eating because obesity was virtually non-existent. Numerous studies have discovered a correlation between high rates of obesity and high rates of automobile ownership. The choice is yours to make; be a normal healthy weight, or burn gasoline while sitting motionless enclosed in a tin box. I eat nearly 4000 calories per day and at least a half pound of sugar daily and am pleased to report that I am slowly losing weight and feeling fantastic. At age 61, I have never owned a car.
  • wllmsgrl1
    wllmsgrl1 Posts: 1 Member
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    Hello! i just wanted to say Congratulations on your success in weight loss. Very admirable!
  • NOMORECARS
    NOMORECARS Posts: 156
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    I'm having the same problem, and this is the main reason it has taken me so long to lose the excess weight. Sugar is the most addictive substance I have ever come across.
    I'll bet sugar is not as addictive as your car. That ton of tin is the most addictive substance in America and is the cause of most obesity.
  • NOMORECARS
    NOMORECARS Posts: 156
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    Hello! i just wanted to say Congratulations on your success in weight loss. Very admirable!
    Easiest thing in the world. All it takes is four simple letters: M-O-V-E. Of course, it always helps not to be addicted to the C-A-R.
  • ImaWaterBender
    ImaWaterBender Posts: 516 Member
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    REFINED sugar has been linked to heart problems and should be consumed sparingly, so good for you, OP.

    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/120/11/1011

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130614165135.htm

    That's not what either of those articles seem to me to be saying, although perhaps a more science-oriented person could elaborate if I am wrong.

    The first is basically about how excessive consumption of sugar can lead to obesity which is itself a risk:
    Although trial data are limited, evidence from observational studies indicates that a higher intake of soft drinks is associated with greater energy intake, higher body weight, and lower intake of essential nutrients. National survey data also indicate that excessive consumption of added sugars is contributing to overconsumption of discretionary calories by Americans.

    I don't see how that supports a claim that there's something special about "refined" sugar vs. that found naturally in carrots or peaches. In addition, I don't see how a claim based on quite high consumption by Americans on average indicates that there is some health benefit to eliminating all added sugar. Indeed, if one finds it easier to stick to a weight loss plan or sustain a healthy weight by including sugar or simply prefers one's oatmeal with a bit of sugar, the same argument would say that it's healthier to do so.

    The second is again about too much sugar and again doesn't seem to be limited to "refined sugar" at all, but is about a molecule called G6P which is said to accumulate from "eating too much starch and/or sugar."

    As others have said already, I don't think there's much controversy that too much of almost anything is bad for you, and sugar is no exception. Where I am not following the argument is why that means everyone should always eschew "added sugar" in all cases.

    I'm not an expert, but refined sugar is sucrose. Sucrose is a combination of glucose and fructose. It metabolizes differently and can spike blood sugar levels. The sugars found in fruits and grains are made up of a combination of glucose, fructose, and sucrose, it various by food source but it is accompanied by fiber - fiber slows the digestion process and helps keep sugar spikes in check. That applies to whole raw food, it begins to change when foods are cooked. There are (to me) a host of complicated monosacchirides and disacchirides and the enterocytes in the intestine walls play a part too. There are 2 different metabolic pathways. I slept through a LOT of my labs in college, I'm not really a science person, so I can't go any further than what I did. My cardiologist told me to restrict refined sugar and table salt - so I do. It goes beyond eating whatever a person wants in moderation.

    I think most people are respectful but we have to realize that there are 40 m people on this site. There have been many discussions but I think the general consensus is to just ignore those who are not.

    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity Group

    Ignore those who are not of the 40 m (?). Those who are/not discussing? I am so confused...

    I think it was "ignore those who are not respectful."
  • Jen5000
    Jen5000 Posts: 3 Member
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    Last year I lost 18 pounds in about 2 months by doing mainly just that - as little sugar as possible, and it's hidden everywhere. Watch out for all the "other' names so manufacturers can avoid stating "SUGAR" on the labels - high fructose syrup, etc. I even cut to drinking little or no milk when I lost that weight. I also avoided TRANS fats and pure junk - fries, chips, you know the drill. Hardest for me was yogurt, because most brands that I loved (Yoplait, etc) have more sugar in a container than a Hershey Bar!! (Granted, you're getting some potassium and calcium, so IMO the Yogurt is still the better choice. But I now buy Kroger Carbmaster, which has less sugar than the other brands. And I eat it less). The other thing I did was eat only when hungry and STOP eating when full. No searching the cubboard just wanting salt or sugar....either you're hungry and healthy food sounds good, or, you're not really hungry. I was not doing any cardio other than occasional walking. The sugar cravings truly do go away and stop altogether, especially - forgot to mention the only other thing I was doing - when eating only good carb choices like true 100% whole grain breads, brown rice, Quinoa. Oh, plus WATER, WATER, WATER...all day long. Hang in there and good luck!
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    REFINED sugar has been linked to heart problems and should be consumed sparingly, so good for you, OP.

    http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/120/11/1011

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/06/130614165135.htm

    That's not what either of those articles seem to me to be saying, although perhaps a more science-oriented person could elaborate if I am wrong.

    The first is basically about how excessive consumption of sugar can lead to obesity which is itself a risk:
    Although trial data are limited, evidence from observational studies indicates that a higher intake of soft drinks is associated with greater energy intake, higher body weight, and lower intake of essential nutrients. National survey data also indicate that excessive consumption of added sugars is contributing to overconsumption of discretionary calories by Americans.

    I don't see how that supports a claim that there's something special about "refined" sugar vs. that found naturally in carrots or peaches. In addition, I don't see how a claim based on quite high consumption by Americans on average indicates that there is some health benefit to eliminating all added sugar. Indeed, if one finds it easier to stick to a weight loss plan or sustain a healthy weight by including sugar or simply prefers one's oatmeal with a bit of sugar, the same argument would say that it's healthier to do so.

    The second is again about too much sugar and again doesn't seem to be limited to "refined sugar" at all, but is about a molecule called G6P which is said to accumulate from "eating too much starch and/or sugar."

    As others have said already, I don't think there's much controversy that too much of almost anything is bad for you, and sugar is no exception. Where I am not following the argument is why that means everyone should always eschew "added sugar" in all cases.

    I'm not an expert, but refined sugar is sucrose. Sucrose is a combination of glucose and fructose. It metabolizes differently and can spike blood sugar levels. The sugars found in fruits and grains are made up of a combination of glucose, fructose, and sucrose, it various by food source but it is accompanied by fiber - fiber slows the digestion process and helps keep sugar spikes in check. That applies to whole raw food, it begins to change when foods are cooked. There are (to me) a host of complicated monosacchirides and disacchirides and the enterocytes in the intestine walls play a part too. There are 2 different metabolic pathways. I slept through a LOT of my labs in college, I'm not really a science person, so I can't go any further than what I did. My cardiologist told me to restrict refined sugar and table salt - so I do. It goes beyond eating whatever a person wants in moderation.

    I think most people are respectful but we have to realize that there are 40 m people on this site. There have been many discussions but I think the general consensus is to just ignore those who are not.

    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity Group

    Ignore those who are not of the 40 m (?). Those who are/not discussing? I am so confused...

    I think it was "ignore those who are not respectful."

    So was it kind of a passive-aggressive way of calling my post not respectful? Out of curiosity, what was non-respectful about it?
  • sugarlemonpie
    sugarlemonpie Posts: 311 Member
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    I eat a lot of fruit. Instead of a high calorie dessert, I have a big bowl of cantaloupe or strawberries. It's healthier sugars than those found in highly processed foods or baked goods.

    Keep good snacks around to curb cravings. Everything in moderation! :)
  • paulandrachelk
    paulandrachelk Posts: 280 Member
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    Prevention Magazine (RODALE) has a book called The Sugar Smart Diet. It has a plan how to rid yourself of sugar problem but, even if you decide not to do that in total, it is VERY educational on how to lower sugar in your diet. Get the Deluxe edition as it has more appendixes etc.
  • Got_Discipline
    Got_Discipline Posts: 65 Member
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    Prevention Magazine (RODALE) has a book called The Sugar Smart Diet. It has a plan how to rid yourself of sugar problem but, even if you decide not to do that in total, it is VERY educational on how to lower sugar in your diet. Get the Deluxe edition as it has more appendixes etc.

    now that is a piece of advice I will look into. TY
  • Got_Discipline
    Got_Discipline Posts: 65 Member
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    I eat a lot of fruit. Instead of a high calorie dessert, I have a big bowl of cantaloupe or strawberries. It's healthier sugars than those found in highly processed foods or baked goods.

    Keep good snacks around to curb cravings. Everything in moderation! :)


    I try but easier said than done....ty
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
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    I'm having the same problem, and this is the main reason it has taken me so long to lose the excess weight. Sugar is the most addictive substance I have ever come across.
    I'll bet sugar is not as addictive as your car. That ton of tin is the most addictive substance in America and is the cause of most obesity.

    You seem remarkably anti-car.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 8,998 Member
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    This time I am trying to cut out SUGAR. By not adding sugar or eating things with so much sugar in them. Unfortunately here in America we love sugar and most things have sugar in them, but I am working on it. I am craving sweet things by the afternoon I am also feeling quite a bit more tired with out all the added sugar in my diet. This is like day two hopefully by weeks end I will be feeling alot better....

    Do you have any helpful hints on how to cut sugar from my diet?

    Get rid of your car and your television.

    I think this advice is just a tad simplistic and unrealistic.. :indifferent:

    Move more, walk instead of driving whenever possible, do more physical activity and less sedentary activity like watching excessive amounts of TVs, sure - but get rid of them entirely?

    I don't think so.
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    Options
    This time I am trying to cut out SUGAR. By not adding sugar or eating things with so much sugar in them. Unfortunately here in America we love sugar and most things have sugar in them, but I am working on it. I am craving sweet things by the afternoon I am also feeling quite a bit more tired with out all the added sugar in my diet. This is like day two hopefully by weeks end I will be feeling alot better....

    Do you have any helpful hints on how to cut sugar from my diet?

    Get rid of your car and your television.

    I think this advice is just a tad simplistic and unrealistic.. :indifferent:

    Move more, walk instead of driving whenever possible, do more physical activity and less sedentary activity like watching excessive amounts of TVs, sure - but get rid of them entirely?

    I don't think so.


    DYEMFP?

    You should know the rules by now. If something taken to excess is bad for us, then the only logical response to eliminate that thing entirely...for optimal health...or something...because science...and stuff.

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