Calories in vs. calories out?

jmangini · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

labradorlvr · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

Acg67 · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

LOL

1. Has no bearing on your initial question and how to you know every single diet of every single competitor?
2. Someone doesn't understand the energy balance equation.
3. What makes one an expert? And again has no bearing on your initial question
4. See PSMF
5. Yes you could eat any of those things and lose weight
6. Yes

Silly questions are silly

Shropshire1959 · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

haleema93 · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

i'm not an expert on any of these matters but personally i think as long as you reduce your portion sizes and dont go over your daily calorie allowance you'd be fine. Its healthier to make sure you're eating fruit and veg and protein as well as all the other important food groups. everyones body is different..
once you reduce your portion sizes people realise they can get more for their calories eating the right food, hence most people change their diets and food consumption.
But some good questions there

i've often thought about some of the questions myself.

jmangini · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

Thanks for your support, and Yes I totally expected an onslaught of negative angry responses as usual. lol. There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate. I'm used to it now. It really bothered initially, as I thought this community would be more supportive. I don't understand why all these experts are on this site. If they know everything about everything, then they probably have better use of their time.

Acg67 · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

Examples of silliness

Talking in absolutes

"why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? "

"If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? "

"And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? "

Shropshire1959 · May 2014

Hey, they are not silly questions ...good on ya for asking but prepare to be mauled by the local Junta who seem to think that it as easy as In .vs. Out.

I don't know the answer either but I'm I'm not binkered enough to think that it's as simple as some around here think.

Keep Thinking and Keep and Open Mind.

Thanks for your support, and Yes I totally expected an onslaught of negative angry responses as usual. lol. There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate. I'm used to it now. It really bothered initially, as I thought this community would be more supportive. I don't understand why all these experts are on this site. If they know everything about everything, then they probably have better use of their time.

shyfranklinstein · May 2014

Are we just beating a dead horse now?

jasonmh630 · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

Serah87 · May 2014

There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate.

And you are one of them. JS!!! :bigsmile:

SideSteel · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

Macronutrients matter for body composition purposes. Micronutrients effect health. And mostly, because satiety, preference, and gym performance are significantly important variables and these will all be impacted by food selection.

None of this changes the fact that calories are fundamentally responsible for changes in weight.

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

Too many questions to address here but suffice it to say that none of this changes the fact that energy balance is fundamentally responsible for changes in weight. Hormonal issues can effect energy balance.

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

See my response to question 1 as this is basically addressed.

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

Once again see question 1. You're presenting scenarios that don't remotely resemble real life dieting scenarios. There's a grey area that most people land in.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

Meal frequency doesn't have a significant effect on metabolism.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

Will it work for what?

SteveyBrule · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Faye_Anderson · May 2014

Thanks for your support, and Yes I totally expected an onslaught of negative angry responses as usual. lol. There are a lot of people on here who love to bash and debate. I'm used to it now. It really bothered initially, as I thought this community would be more supportive. I don't understand why all these experts are on this site. If they know everything about everything, then they probably have better use of their time.

This is a very supportive community and most of these people are "experts"as they have been here a long time and took the time to find out what works, proved it works with their results and then have to face post upon post about how calories aren't equal, we must eat clean, all the special snowflakes for whom science doesn't apply.
The only responses that are ever negative or angry usually come from an OP when they've got good, helpful replies that disagree with the initial post :flowerforyou:

SteveyBrule · May 2014

Hey homie, I'm with you. I think the disparity comes from what you opt to lose. The reason we don't see bodybuilders cutting on a diet of 3x100 calorie bags of cookies is that their body is then more likely to consume muscle for energy.

The reason I cut calories AND eat healthy is your body, assuming a completely homogenous diet of nutrients, will opt for eating muscle to give you energy, it's a great source of that. The goal with eating clean/healthy is to mitigate what your body chooses to use for energy. If you give it healthy fats and lots of protein, it'll burn that plus your body fat for energy and ideally preserve muscle.

cwolfman13 · May 2014

In the hierarchy of things that are important to weight loss, calories in/calories out is numero uno...anything else is secondary. I personally put a premium on nutrition as well, but that's me and I'm doing this largely for my healthy and overall well being, not just to lose weight.

In RE to getting a competition physique, etc...I wouldn't really know but I would assume at that point, other factors would come into play...but c'mon...most people here are just trying to get to a healthy weight and BF%, not necessarily a competition body. Most people here aren't competitive athletes are attempting to become competitive athletes...when you really start delving into nutrient timing, and quality of nutrients, I think it makes a huge difference for performance, etc...but the average fat *kitten* like I was who just wants to lose some weight...CI/CO works just fine and is pretty damned simple.

omma_to_3 · May 2014

Here's a question for all the debaters on here. I'll pose it and let you take over.

Is it really as simple as calories in vs. calories out? Here are a few things that complicate the debate.

1. If this is true, why isn't there a single successful fitness competitor on the planet who has ever gotten his/her calories from red meat, potato chips, cookies and cake when on a cut? if you're cutting and need only 1500 calories. Why can't you cut on whatever food you want as long as you don't exceed 1500 calories?

Macronutrients matter for body composition purposes. Micronutrients effect health. And mostly, because satiety, preference, and gym performance are significantly important variables and these will all be impacted by food selection.

None of this changes the fact that calories are fundamentally responsible for changes in weight.

2. If it's just calories in vs calories out, then hormones don't play any role whatsoever? Why are so many nutrition experts concerned then with Insulin spikes, over or under active thyroid and cortisol levels? Insulin for instance is an anabolic agent as well as a supposedly fat storing trigger. Body builders actually want this spike after a workout and many eat simple sugars following a lifting session for this reason. Almost every article you read on cutting addresses cortisol levels and the role stress plays on it. Why can someone with an overactive thyroid, not gain weight no matter what they eat? Could it be hormone's play a bigger role than many give them credit for? And if so, could that explain why some people stay skinny and some people get fat eating the same amount of food?

Too many questions to address here but suffice it to say that none of this changes the fact that energy balance is fundamentally responsible for changes in weight. Hormonal issues can effect energy balance.

3. If we are just talking about losing weight and not addressing overall health, then why, when we are dieting, does every expert and every diet emphasize eating whole natural foods? If I'm at a calorie deficit and it's that simple, why can't I get my calories from whatever I want? Chips and dip and butter and cake? Could it be that maybe taking in mostly saturated fat or sugar could be more fattening than other nutrients?

See my response to question 1 as this is basically addressed.

4. Ok, so you say, if you diet you need protein to keep you muscle because you body will eat it lol. So can't I eat all protein with my calorie deficit? It shouldn't matter if a calorie is a calorie right? Will that work to lose weight and keep my muscle so my body doesn't eat it?

Once again see question 1. You're presenting scenarios that don't remotely resemble real life dieting scenarios. There's a grey area that most people land in.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/nutrition/excluding-the-middle.html

5. So then, maybe you believe you have to eat very frequent meals to "keep your metabolism going." Okay, then if i eat a handful of nuts every 2 hours, or a small bag of potato chips every 3 hours, will I lose weight? I McDonald's cheese burger only has 230 calories, so if I eat 5 or 6 of those every day, will I lose weight? And if so, why does everyone tell me to eat broccoli? I could simply eat 5 cheeseburgers and a smoothy or all kinds of vitamins, if ii want to make sure I stay healthy and get nutrients.

Meal frequency doesn't have a significant effect on metabolism.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/meal-frequency-and-energy-balance-research-review.html
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9155494

6. Can I eat all of my calories of anything right before bed? Will that work?

Will it work for what?

QFT :-) Hormones affect your metabolism which changes the energy equation.

prettygirlstorm1 · May 2014

Wish I was brave enough to experiment with this theory. I would rather have a McDonald;s cheeseburger that to have a baked chicken breast or a bag of chips and dip than steamed vegetables. Loved the post!!!

jasonmh630 · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Thank you, doctor...

Maybe not, but If she's not eating even a portion of her exercise calories back, then THAT could be causing road blocks. If she's on a 1200 cal/day diet and burns +/- 500 cals, then her net total is too low.

tennisdude2004 · May 2014

Bump

SteveyBrule · May 2014

I've pondered the exact same thing. Nothing with dieting is simple. It is not just about in and out. I've been on 1200 cals , exercising and lost nothing. If our bodies aren't liking something we eat, it will hang on.

:

May not be eating enough... Are you eating your exercise calories back?

No such thing as starvation hindering weight loss.

Thank you, doctor.

You're welcome. I bill out at $86/word, but you'll have the invoice shortly.

But seriously, when you starve your body burns calories and you lose weight. That's it. No such thing as not eating and maintaining weight. You could eat 900 calories/day and exercise and lose weight. Your body won't stop doing it.

Calories in vs. calories out?

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