NEWSFLASH: McDonald’s existed back when I was a kid

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Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

Yeah, actually, that is the argument though. Companies are in business to make money for their shareholders, period. Providing what the customer wants is the best way to do that. Unfortunately for your argument, consumers want McDonalds. If they didn't, the company wouldn't be in business. That's the way it works.

And what's this about consumer rights? Consumers have a right to want what they want. They have a right to buy what kind of food they want. I don't see a violation of rights here at all....

Don't worry though. You have rights too. You can choose not to eat at McDs. There now...problem solved.

Why? I can choose to have their salad with their calorie-counted dressing.

Look, these are large companies that sell cheap food. Many people at cheap food, many of those people don't know a lot about nutrition. The reason we know McDonald's is bad for us is not because they told us out of love, it's because consumer rights groups worked hard and people watched documentaries about what is in their food. Back when Supersize Me was made, they did not display their nutritional information, for example.

Companies change when their consumers demand it. It's not that hard to understand.

Yes, you can choose that.

Yes, companies change when the majority of their customers demand it.

No, the majority of McDs customers are NOT demanding this change.

Thus, McDs doesn't feel compelled to change.

You're right. It is easy to understand.

Actually... many people at McD's are. That's why you see so many changes, such as... salads... heck, mcd's out here were selling steamed broccoli for a while. Strange bright green supersize broccoli, but that's par for the course.

Ok. So then what's your point? They are meeting their consumers needs. Customers still want burgers and fries, and they provide that, too. What more do you want from them? A complete overhaul of the menu? Customers will need to demand it in mass and that's not happening at the moment.

Do you want more consumers to rise up and demand the change?

I'm saying that personal responsibility is an easy thing to say, but people who have more of a social consciousness also try to look out for people who don't have access to the same information as them and also try to demand better options for everyone. It doesn't hurt the company to make stuff that is better for consumers. They will sell any crap if people don't stand up for themselves and each other.

McDs nutritional information is everywhere and you can request it at the restaurant. Everyone has access to the same information.

It does hurt the company to change their recipes, processes, etc. - especially if their own customers haven't asked them to do it. It changes the cost, it changes the cook time, it changes the taste, it changes the expiration dates and so, and so forth. Lost money hits the shareholders pockets. McDs shareholders aren't all rich tycoons. They are people just like you and me who are relying on their investment for their future needs. They are just as important as anyone else.

I agree that it's up to McDs customers to stand up for what they want. Clearly, the vast majority of them are just fine.

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Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

You are absolutely correct...consumers have power too. They have the power to choose what and how they eat. If they continue to choose to buy junk the company will continue to make junk, as you continue to call it that. If people stop going and buying the high calorie foods , the larger sizes, the sodas Etc. then the companies will do survey's find out what people want and cater to them. In the end yes companies are out to make money and if they stop making money off food that people are wrongly blaming for their obesity problems then companies will change their business plans. Supply....Demand.

Now if you want to talk about people not being educated on proper eating their could also be an argument set forth that it is the individuals responsibility to do that as well. Nobody can say that the information is not readily available, the internet has taken care of that. Even food labels tell you that the calories and percentages are based on a 2000 calorie a day diet and some of the labels says that the 2000 calories is the recommended intake for a person.

That's a rather strange argument because the only reason why the demand would change is because of the education... but if everyone is personally responsible, not working together, then how would that information get out?

The point is the information is already out their. I am not saying that I wanted to start an argument about who's responsibility it is to educate yourself I said an argument could be made that it is each individuals responsibility. Personally when I have a question about something I go and try and find answers in some way shape or form taking it upon myself to make sure I am educated. I know not everyone has that kind of drive and I am by no means saying that everyone should but I am saying that I think that each person has some type of responsibility to find out what they need to know to make it through life once you are an adult and technically supposed to be responsible. Can people ban together to request information and change...yes and they do it because they realize they don't have answers and they want to know things or they found answers and see a problem.

So again I agree with you that people have power. They have the power to make choices based on what they know and what they can find out. If one chooses not to be educated about something and jumps in head first it is not the fault of the educators or the holders of the information but the individual who should have thought a little before going about their business. They also have the power to enact change but you cannot force your changes upon others because they have to make their own choices. Again it all comes back to individual choices.

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That's a rather strange argument because the only reason why the demand would change is because of the education... but if everyone is personally responsible, not working together, then how would that information get out?

How do you make the logical leap from "you're responsible for your own health" to a lack of education? I'd argue that taking responsibility for your own body is likely to lead to increased education, relative to the people that just expect McDonalds to change and serve them what's "healthy" (as if such a thing were possible, as you can overeat on any food). Part of having the freedom to choose for yourself is taking responsibility for your own actions.

... That's really weird, because you quoted what I said and then made up a quote, making it seem like I was responding to the statement "you're responsible for your own health" instead of what I was actually responding to, which was a comment made by someone else that referred to different points. Interesting debating tactic!

Is "you're responsible for your own health" really that different from "everyone is personally responsible"? I'll admit I was paraphrasing, but do you think those statements are really that different?

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*sigh* I didn't say vendor were responsbile.for anyone's weight or health.

But others have and the only point I was trying to make is that people are responsible for their own situation. Also, I agree that a healthy diet is definable. What I don't agree with is labeling everything at McDonalds "crap" and labeling everything at a co-op "healthy". The implication in some posts in this thread is that eating at McDonalds is "eating crap" and is not "eating healthy", regardless of what you eat and how much of it you eat, whereas I think it's certainly possible to eat at McDonalds as part of a "healthy diet." To the extent people want to talk about a lack of education contributing to the obesity epidemic, I'd argue that attaching useless labels like "crap" and "healthy" to specific food choices evidences such a lack of education and simply adds misinformation to the discussion.

I agree with most of that, though I think the misinformation and confusion come from people try to extrapolate every food that is not a "healthy food" to be an "unhealthy food" or that it can't be part of a "healthy diet". As if the world of healthy eating is all black and white.

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I think maybe you don't enjoy critically looking at problems. Which is fine, but McDonalds is part of the cheap fast food that is making people obese - it's unhealthy food that is cheap. They do have some duty towards their customers not to feed them crap. Yes, McDonalds existed when you were a kid. People became more and more obese during your lifetime so far.

Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movements are similar.

It's possible to lose weight, but there's no known cure for conservatism/libertarianism/whatever it is that stops you seeing things in context. As Stephen Colbert pointed out, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Nobody forces you to eat fast food. Just saying

I am going to have to straddle the fence. Personally I haven't eaten at a McDonalds in about 4 years. I just don't feel that good after eating there.

I was a Cub Scout when the first McDonalds opened in my area (So Cal). We were invited on a field trip to see how the assembly line of burgers were created. And it was, literally, an assembly line. McDonalds went to great lengths back in the early 60's to invite and host school trips and groups such as the Cub Scouts, Girl Scouts, etc.

Nobody gave a darn 50 years ago about the nutritional content. It was decades before any fast food establishment was held accountable for revealing nutrional values. It was all about convenience and quick service. I do think McDonalds and all the rest must accept some of the culpability for the "fattening" of America.

Those of you that say we have a choice are 100% correct, but the fact is this culture of eating fast food has been force fed to the last couple of generatiions, and, when it's finally revealed that this may not be all that healthy, fast food convenience is already ingrained in the culture.

Comparing Ronald McDonald to Joe Camel is not as outrageous as one might think. It's all how the product is marketed to the public.

Go ahead. Beat me up. Tell me how ill-informed I am.

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I think maybe you don't enjoy critically looking at problems. Which is fine, but McDonalds is part of the cheap fast food that is making people obese - it's unhealthy food that is cheap. They do have some duty towards their customers not to feed them crap. Yes, McDonalds existed when you were a kid. People became more and more obese during your lifetime so far.

Your comments about the Occupy Wall Street movements are similar.

It's possible to lose weight, but there's no known cure for conservatism/libertarianism/whatever it is that stops you seeing things in context. As Stephen Colbert pointed out, "Reality has a well-known liberal bias."

Nobody forces you to eat fast food. Just saying

EXACTLY!!!

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Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

You are absolutely correct...consumers have power too. They have the power to choose what and how they eat. If they continue to choose to buy junk the company will continue to make junk, as you continue to call it that. If people stop going and buying the high calorie foods , the larger sizes, the sodas Etc. then the companies will do survey's find out what people want and cater to them. In the end yes companies are out to make money and if they stop making money off food that people are wrongly blaming for their obesity problems then companies will change their business plans. Supply....Demand.

Now if you want to talk about people not being educated on proper eating their could also be an argument set forth that it is the individuals responsibility to do that as well. Nobody can say that the information is not readily available, the internet has taken care of that. Even food labels tell you that the calories and percentages are based on a 2000 calorie a day diet and some of the labels says that the 2000 calories is the recommended intake for a person.

That's a rather strange argument because the only reason why the demand would change is because of the education... but if everyone is personally responsible, not working together, then how would that information get out?

The point is the information is already out their. I am not saying that I wanted to start an argument about who's responsibility it is to educate yourself I said an argument could be made that it is each individuals responsibility. Personally when I have a question about something I go and try and find answers in some way shape or form taking it upon myself to make sure I am educated. I know not everyone has that kind of drive and I am by no means saying that everyone should but I am saying that I think that each person has some type of responsibility to find out what they need to know to make it through life once you are an adult and technically supposed to be responsible. Can people ban together to request information and change...yes and they do it because they realize they don't have answers and they want to know things or they found answers and see a problem.

So again I agree with you that people have power. They have the power to make choices based on what they know and what they can find out. If one chooses not to be educated about something and jumps in head first it is not the fault of the educators or the holders of the information but the individual who should have thought a little before going about their business. They also have the power to enact change but you cannot force your changes upon others because they have to make their own choices. Again it all comes back to individual choices.

Maybe we're agreeing, I'm not sure.

I know that the decision to eat at McDonalds or not is personal, of course. But the way to know what's in the food, demand healthier options etc., that's something people have to do together. The information for you to find would not be there if other people didn't find it and demand that it was available.

There's nothing inherently wrong with eating out. And the moms and dads feeding their kids mcdonalds don't always know it's terrible. Fewer of them do it after information started to spread. But info only spreads when we think beyond just ourselves and look out for each other.

McDonald's has made every effort to accomodate market trends that reflect the choice of healthier lifestyles, and as long as Americans continually make a concious effort towards healthier lifestyle, McDonald's will continue to do so.

Yet...

You still condemn them...

McDonalds is not a person, it is a company. Consumers demand good quality products from the company, and in exchange they buy those products. Nobody's feeling are being hurt. They still sell a lot of crap. They are changing, but only so far as the pressure is maintained. Why? Because if they can fob people off with cheap stuff, they make more money. Consumers have to be vigilant.

You can't really compare when you were a kid and our current society. There are many factors that have changed in that time that makes the comparison pretty odd. Portion sizes have increased at restaurants, and has been well-documented. The increase in portion sizes, together with the sad economy and our lack of activity (in general), is what has made our society super obese. All but the economy factor are personal decisions.

Personal responsibility is very important. I agree with your overall point, but I think you have oversimplified things a bit.

I agree. They don't even put as much food in the Happy Meals as they did when I was a kid, and offer healthier options like yogurt and apple slices now. Do I blame my parents for my fast food addiction, to some extent, yes. But that is because from a very young age, we ate A LOT of fast food. There was even a point when I was 10 where my mom was working, and was too tired to cook, so we had a fast food schedule on the fridge for which fast food place we would get food from EVERY NIGHT OF THE WEEK. But that's not McDonalds' fault. And it is my fault every time I CHOOSE to have fast food now as an adult, and only I am responsible for the consequences.

As a non-American this is something I cannot wrap my head around. McD's is " so bad " for your children that you don't eat it regularly, but it is good enough as a " treat " .
Does that not prove that you are just as much a victim of the fast food culture ( which is set up for people to not be able to escape ) as those who eat it several times a week ? Not looking for controversy....just wondering.
You are btw the second poster in a handful of posts who considers McD's bad, but good enough to eat on special occasions. As I said, I don't get it.
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I think we view it that way because we view anything that is not a regular thing for us as a treat here. If that makes sense. Our kids are always excited about whatever little toy they happen to get when we actually stop at a fast food place. So it's a treat to them.

show previous quotes

Companies will do whatever they can do make money. Many people here seem to think that's some kind of genius argument and stop their thinking there.

Consumers have power too. If consumers demand healthier food, nutritional information (as they have) and choose healthier options, companies have to change. It's a combination of personal responsibility and an understanding of consumer rights.

You are absolutely correct...consumers have power too. They have the power to choose what and how they eat. If they continue to choose to buy junk the company will continue to make junk, as you continue to call it that. If people stop going and buying the high calorie foods , the larger sizes, the sodas Etc. then the companies will do survey's find out what people want and cater to them. In the end yes companies are out to make money and if they stop making money off food that people are wrongly blaming for their obesity problems then companies will change their business plans. Supply....Demand.

Now if you want to talk about people not being educated on proper eating their could also be an argument set forth that it is the individuals responsibility to do that as well. Nobody can say that the information is not readily available, the internet has taken care of that. Even food labels tell you that the calories and percentages are based on a 2000 calorie a day diet and some of the labels says that the 2000 calories is the recommended intake for a person.

That's a rather strange argument because the only reason why the demand would change is because of the education... but if everyone is personally responsible, not working together, then how would that information get out?

The point is the information is already out their. I am not saying that I wanted to start an argument about who's responsibility it is to educate yourself I said an argument could be made that it is each individuals responsibility. Personally when I have a question about something I go and try and find answers in some way shape or form taking it upon myself to make sure I am educated. I know not everyone has that kind of drive and I am by no means saying that everyone should but I am saying that I think that each person has some type of responsibility to find out what they need to know to make it through life once you are an adult and technically supposed to be responsible. Can people ban together to request information and change...yes and they do it because they realize they don't have answers and they want to know things or they found answers and see a problem.

So again I agree with you that people have power. They have the power to make choices based on what they know and what they can find out. If one chooses not to be educated about something and jumps in head first it is not the fault of the educators or the holders of the information but the individual who should have thought a little before going about their business. They also have the power to enact change but you cannot force your changes upon others because they have to make their own choices. Again it all comes back to individual choices.

Maybe we're agreeing, I'm not sure.

I know that the decision to eat at McDonalds or not is personal, of course. But the way to know what's in the food, demand healthier options etc., that's something people have to do together. The information for you to find would not be there if other people didn't find it and demand that it was available. For example, back when Morgan Spurlock was making Supersize Me, there was a nutritional info card hidden somewhere in the restaurant, but none on display.

There's nothing inherently wrong with eating out. And the moms and dads feeding their kids mcdonalds don't always know it's terrible. Fewer of them do it after information started to spread. But info only spreads when we think beyond just ourselves and look out for each other.

I agree with you on some points you have made but not all

Yeah but he was able to get the info in that movie granted it took him a while but he did get it. I am also sure that McDonald's had a website back then as well that more than likely had the information. It is not your responsibility to look out for me though. It is each person's responsibility to find out what they are eating or educate themselves. if information isn't available then yes by all means blame the company for hiding it. There is no way you can blame fast food companies for obesity anymore because the information is everywhere. Nobody is hiding anything. In a lot of case, I will not say all because of medical conditions, people are choosing to overeat and that is why we are a big fat nation and they are making these choices with all the information right in front of them.

Actually, McDonald's earnings are shrinking and they have been making efforts to change their menu. With that said, I HATE McDonald's. My kids love it. The get it as a treat every once in awhile.

But I agree with some posters that this is not a black and white argument. The problem with cheap, processed, carb heavy foods like McD's is that you get the most calorie for your buck. Not nutrition. But it fills bellies and for the poor, it's a viable option and they are more likely to eat there 2-3 times a day because it's cheap food that makes you feel full whereas the brussels sprouts at the grocery are almost $4 per pound (non-organic). I'm lucky that I can afford healthy, nutritious food for my kids. I do not judge those who can't. I just think that there is some gray area that a lot of the posters on this thread don't recognize. Personal responsibility yes. Does McDonald's 'make' people fat, no. Are they part of a system that benefits from the high cost of healthy food and decreasing real wages of the middle class, yes. I'm guessing most of the personal responsibility people also hate Obamacare. People gonna be needing it if we can't make real food more affordable.

Exactly this - you summed it up well.

Agree with OP!!! When I was a kid - My Mom made us delicious nutritious home cooked meals and taught us how to eat healthy balanced meals. McDonald's was an occasional 'treat', not something we ate all the time.