If it's as simple as calories in vs calories out....
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People will always assume WLS is the "easy way out" but those who are close to someone who actually had WLS will know better. I had to change everything. WLS itself was painful as hell, and there have been hiccups along the way, but I really wish I could have done without it because it's HARD. There's no more big thanksgiving dinners. Eating out sucks because you take a few bites and spend the rest of the time watching someone else eat. You can't eat just what you want anymore, but have to eat to meet your protein macros. It's a lot of work and sacrifice.It is not incredulous that her doctor is not helpful nor knowledgeable post surgery. These types of surgeries are as trendy as Botox and money makers for medical personnel with very little training.....it's not always their specialty. They are making the bucks lining people up for these surgeries. That may or may not be the case here, but to assume that there are all of these things making her story somehow shady, is unfair.
Sad to read implications that someone "cheated" or was looking for a "quick fix." Many, many people have benefited from surgery to get to a healthier weight. The change in confidence alone is enough to turn things around and maintain a healthy lifestyle.0 -
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They reroute your digestive juices to come in at the end of the small intestines. That's the Common Channel. No part of the intestines is removed.
The small intestine is over 20 ft long. I may only play a doctor on the internet, but the portion of the intestine connected to the pylorus through which the food will travel, which I'm guessing is what is referred to as the common channel, is not over 20 ft long based on that picture. According to articles about the surgery, it's only about 75-150 cm, which is a heck of a lot shorter than 20 ft. The rest is rerouted to the liver. So while it may not be removed from your body, my point that the the small intestine through which food matter passes through and is absorbed has been greatly shortened is correct.
Sorry you're having a tough time, but you really should be talking to a doctor about any difficulties you are having, not just yelling at the members of the community here. There's really not anything anyone here can do to help you given that we have no knowledge of your specific medical history and you clearly have circumstances that fall outside of general weight loss.0 -
Your surgery concerns me, however, since it directly affects how food is being absorbed by your body. I really suggest speaking with a professional dietitian.
And I don't know if you're doing this, but for the record! I really suggest not weighing yourself every day. Weight can fluctuate so much due to stress, water retention, hormones etc... I'd say once a week, max. If you can hit the gym in the future, I'd suggest measuring your progress with a measuring tape and/or pictures in the mirror, and throw out the scale:)
Imagine my surprise when I gained 10 lbs, but realized I had put 3 inches on my *kitten* and lost 2 inches in my waist! I was totally okay with that
Haha
Best of luck to you.0 -
It is not incredulous that her doctor is not helpful nor knowledgeable post surgery. These types of surgeries are as trendy as Botox and money makers for medical personnel with very little training.....it's not always their specialty. They are making the bucks lining people up for these surgeries. That may or may not be the case here, but to assume that there are all of these things making her story somehow shady, is unfair.
Sad to read implications that someone "cheated" or was looking for a "quick fix." Many, many people have benefited from surgery to get to a healthier weight. The change in confidence alone is enough to turn things around and maintain a healthy lifestyle.
Perhaps, but she may have gotten more helpful responses had she not come in here, guns blazing, nasty attitude and calling people 'stupid' and 'idiots' because they didn't have in depth knowledge of her super special rare surgery.0 -
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So what? How is a beef patty fried at home SO MUCH BETTER? I don't have the bun, so it meets my carb macros. It's high in protein and fat, which is what I need. How is it wrong when it fits my macros so perfectly? I don't eat fries, I don't eat pies, I don't drink sweet tea. I get water and a mcdouble no bun. So just meat and cheese. That's precisely what I'm supposed to be eating. I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around, but what is healthy for you is no longer healthy for big. Big portions of veggies would mean not meeting my fat or protein macros.
The hilarious part of this whole thing is. You call the person above an idiot but yet you:
Had an unnecessary surgery. You could have taken other measures to fix you diabetes. But.....laziness.
You had a surgery without even doing full research of who would help you with you nutrition afterwards.
You had the surgery and now can only handle less food, so your solution is.....smaller portions of Mcdonald and Taco Bell.
Lol0 -
Have you ever seen Secret Eaters? Check it out.0
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WRONG! I'm supposed to eat FATTY MEATS. I need fat to absorb my vites. I need 150g fat A DAY!! I am supposed to NOT eat much beans because they are loaded in carbs and cause me digestive problems now. I'm supposed to eat absolutely no more than 2 tablespoons of veggies per meal, twice a day max.Oh, and by the way, what you think is "healthy foods" for me is not healthy. Even the nutritionist said to limit myself to 2 tablespoons of vegetables twice a day. Less than 60g carbs a day. Rest is protein.
so for you taco bell and mcdonnalds three times a day minus bread is "completely changing your eating" and an "acceptable way to get protein"
Gimme a break I would cut u some slack but your diary is gross. You like gross food and you dont want to give it up.
You know how much sodium and chemicals is in that food? You think its real healthy meat/protein?
I think they meant lean meats, small chicken breasts, protein shakes, beans, supplemented by cooked veggies (easier on a post op surg stomach)
What you want is to eat what you want with no consequences, yes a calorie is a calorie but you have to be aware of optimal health, the sodium you eat alone from your fast food/processed food is enough to keep you bloated.
Do i think all people "cheat" with this surgery? NO
but I think some do, and I think you did.
you are fooling yourself! But hey I like your spunky attitude when you are ready to get real, send me a FR0 -
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I called her stupid because she called me a liar and said I was fooling myself if I thought surgery kept me from absorbing macros. She was wrong. 30 seconds of reading with google could have informed her.It is not incredulous that her doctor is not helpful nor knowledgeable post surgery. These types of surgeries are as trendy as Botox and money makers for medical personnel with very little training.....it's not always their specialty. They are making the bucks lining people up for these surgeries. That may or may not be the case here, but to assume that there are all of these things making her story somehow shady, is unfair.
Sad to read implications that someone "cheated" or was looking for a "quick fix." Many, many people have benefited from surgery to get to a healthier weight. The change in confidence alone is enough to turn things around and maintain a healthy lifestyle.
Perhaps, but she may have gotten more helpful responses had she not come in here, guns blazing, nasty attitude and calling people 'stupid' and 'idiots' because they didn't have in depth knowledge of her super special rare surgery.0 -
Well, one thing I know, is that we with Hashimoto's have it harder than a "normal' person. It's not that simple for us. We can watch calories, but will probably still keep gaining or not lose anything. We have to watch what we eat too. We have to constantly get our hormones levels checked and make sure they're within optimal range.
I'm sure there are more diseases or health issues out there this type of thing applies to, but I can speak first hand, it's not that simple for Hashi people.0 -
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I would say it's pretty obvious.
If it was as simple as people claim, only calories in VS calories out, I would be losing massive amounts of weight.
I physically can't gorge myself. Which means I'm unlikely to be lying in any major way on my diary. When I eat less, I lose less. When I eat more, I lose more. So if it was as simple as calories in VS calories out, how does that make any sense?The truth is it is how the laws of energy work...calories absorbed -calories burned = negative number, you lose weight - positive number you gain - zero, you maintain.
That is the formula for the energy use that we call calories, it is math. You math say 900 - 2000= +1100 instead of -1100; then you say 1600-2000= -400 (which is correct). Even figuring malabsorption in the 2 equations are not in a agreement on the basic principles of element school math.
The only thing I could think is when you believe you are eating 900, you are actually eating more calorie dense foods and misjudging portions and/or over estimating exercise burn. Also 4 oz. Is easy to gorge on, my favorite guacamole has almost 1900 calorie in only 6oz.
Calling someone stupid for just stating a mathmatically probable (near absolute) truth is ignorant. She wasn't saying you were lying, not understanding, and making an extremely common miscalculation is common here and the only logical answer to what you posted. Whether you like or agree with the math, it can and will stand on its own merits and dismissing it with anecdotal evidence will not effect the truth.
That's a pretty gross oversimplification. You're forgetting hormones, insulin sensitivity and resistance, alpha-receptors and blood flow and how directly effect the process of fat loss, and adaptive thermogenesis. Some people do gain at 500-900 kcals a day because of metabolic damage or any other factor.
Mostly it is because their RMR is in the tank, which is still more kcal in than kcal out, because it is far below 1000 or even 700. Metabolic damage can be fixed, over time, but unfortunately that does mean a break from dieting, or being comfortable gaining at 1200 kcals for awhile until things get moving again.
It's important to think long term.
Not over simplified, calories out accounts for hormones etc. Everyone need to figure out there own TDEE. The op is stating that she essentially has 2 tdee's. At the low one she gains and at the high one she loses, these 2 statements can not both be facts since they cancel each other out. You can not make a number that is negative turn positive (create energy from thin air), if the correct math applies at the higher intake.
No I have to disagree with you, people do not gain on 700 calories, even extremely rare and severe metabolic disorders only on average fall 10% below the mean BMR of the population. Think of it in the terms of evolution, if the human body could become so efficient that it could run, maintain and even increase energy storage supplies (fat) on roughly a third of what the mean population functions and maintains at. That body in question would be the healthiest and next step in human evolution. Under of course the assumption that a body that could have a surplus of energy at such a low intake would also have adapted to subsist and thrive on lower nutrientlevels as well.
Why have famished countries not adapted? They starve and die from starvation and malnourishment, they are also skinny.
Look at the Minnesota study, why were the subjects not fat?0 -
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I called her stupid because she called me a liar and said I was fooling myself if I thought surgery kept me from absorbing macros. She was wrong. 30 seconds of reading with google could have informed her.It is not incredulous that her doctor is not helpful nor knowledgeable post surgery. These types of surgeries are as trendy as Botox and money makers for medical personnel with very little training.....it's not always their specialty. They are making the bucks lining people up for these surgeries. That may or may not be the case here, but to assume that there are all of these things making her story somehow shady, is unfair.
Sad to read implications that someone "cheated" or was looking for a "quick fix." Many, many people have benefited from surgery to get to a healthier weight. The change in confidence alone is enough to turn things around and maintain a healthy lifestyle.
Perhaps, but she may have gotten more helpful responses had she not come in here, guns blazing, nasty attitude and calling people 'stupid' and 'idiots' because they didn't have in depth knowledge of her super special rare surgery.
Which shows how incredibly immature you are.0 -
You realize that DS'ers are supposed to follow high protein high fat diet, yes? McDonalds burgers without a bun is...high protein, high fat. GASP WHO WOULD EAT HIGH FAT HIGH PROTEIN ON A HIGH FAT HIGH PROTEIN DIET!?!?!
The hilarious part of this whole thing is. You call the person above an idiot but yet you:
You're an idiot. I eat a high fat, high protein diet. Because I absorb 20% fat and 60% protein. I will eat a McDonalds burger without the bun. Or a single taco, and that's my carb splurge for the day (at 11 carbs). It's protein. I need protein. 150g fat = 30g absorbed. Without it, I can't absorb my vitamins, my hair gets dry and brittle, my skin dries out and flakes, I get acne, and I feel horrible.
I would say it's pretty obvious.
Well, she calls me a liar and tells me I'm gorging myself and not logging. She sounded real charming too.
Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.
Wow. You sound charming.
From reading all your posts in this thread you sound very angry with quite the attitude. What was the point of starting it? A rant perhaps? Or sympathy? Can't figure it out.
If it was as simple as people claim, only calories in VS calories out, I would be losing massive amounts of weight.
I physically can't gorge myself. Which means I'm unlikely to be lying in any major way on my diary. When I eat less, I lose less. When I eat more, I lose more. So if it was as simple as calories in VS calories out, how does that make any sense?
Ok I just looked through your diary and like I said you have cheated your body with this dumb surgery...you wanted a quick fix but you didnt want to change your habits
I see multiple taco bell/mcdonalds/fast food/fried foods/processed foods
one day you went to taco bell twice AND mcdonalds
Hell I am all for moderation and dont get me wrong I love the occasional fast food product.
Surgery is supposed to be a tool to get you on your way to learning and practising better habits and your not. So no wonder you are not losing, most days you eat like ****
that can add up. No wonder the nutritionist "knows nothing" she is probably recommending healthy foods that will give you the most nutritional; bang for the portion and you arent trying to hear that are you?
Geuss what? A moment on the lips a lifetime on the hips, eventually you stomach will adjust too its new self and because you havnt learned or listened the lbs will creep back on again.
Enjoy your crap food.
Had an unnecessary surgery. You could have taken other measures to fix you diabetes. But.....laziness.
You had a surgery without even doing full research of who would help you with you nutrition afterwards.
You had the surgery and now can only handle less food, so your solution is.....smaller portions of Mcdonald and Taco Bell.
Lol
EXACTLY!
you think eating **** food without the bun is "trying"????
You make WLS look bad!
Get real
Btw, it's not like I even eat there every day.0 -
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You don't eat the fries from mcdonalds but instead you will eat Homemade french fries with ranch dip for lunch right?
So what? How is a beef patty fried at home SO MUCH BETTER? I don't have the bun, so it meets my carb macros. It's high in protein and fat, which is what I need. How is it wrong when it fits my macros so perfectly? I don't eat fries, I don't eat pies, I don't drink sweet tea. I get water and a mcdouble no bun. So just meat and cheese. That's precisely what I'm supposed to be eating. I know it's hard for you to wrap your head around, but what is healthy for you is no longer healthy for big. Big portions of veggies would mean not meeting my fat or protein macros.
The hilarious part of this whole thing is. You call the person above an idiot but yet you:
Had an unnecessary surgery. You could have taken other measures to fix you diabetes. But.....laziness.
You had a surgery without even doing full research of who would help you with you nutrition afterwards.
You had the surgery and now can only handle less food, so your solution is.....smaller portions of Mcdonald and Taco Bell.
Lol
Oh yea almost forgot to add in to my previous post you frequenting Wendy's and KFC along with Taco Bell and McDonalds. Congratulations on being the first person to ever have surgery like this and now have a diet of all fast foods and not be able to eat veggies because veggies is to much food.
Yep, and I have a reason for this.
I found myself losing a pound a day when I did 80g carbs or so. So I was trying that. I had to have something that was carb-dense and not something that would take up tons of stomach space. Some DS'ers found success with it. But it messed me up too much, made me ill, not doing it again.0 -
You realize that DS'ers are supposed to follow high protein high fat diet, yes? McDonalds burgers without a bun is...high protein, high fat. GASP WHO WOULD EAT HIGH FAT HIGH PROTEIN ON A HIGH FAT HIGH PROTEIN DIET!?!?!
The hilarious part of this whole thing is. You call the person above an idiot but yet you:
You're an idiot. I eat a high fat, high protein diet. Because I absorb 20% fat and 60% protein. I will eat a McDonalds burger without the bun. Or a single taco, and that's my carb splurge for the day (at 11 carbs). It's protein. I need protein. 150g fat = 30g absorbed. Without it, I can't absorb my vitamins, my hair gets dry and brittle, my skin dries out and flakes, I get acne, and I feel horrible.
I would say it's pretty obvious.
Well, she calls me a liar and tells me I'm gorging myself and not logging. She sounded real charming too.
Um, are you stupid or something? Yes, it does cause me to malabsorb nutrients. That's like, the whole purpose of Duodenal Switch. They change where your digestive juices come in to come in at the end of the small intestines so food isn't broken down and macros aren't absorbed. Google it.
Fat malabsorption is so much that I have to take megadoses of fat soluable vitamins. I take 50,000iu of Vitamin D a day, for instance.
Wow. You sound charming.
From reading all your posts in this thread you sound very angry with quite the attitude. What was the point of starting it? A rant perhaps? Or sympathy? Can't figure it out.
If it was as simple as people claim, only calories in VS calories out, I would be losing massive amounts of weight.
I physically can't gorge myself. Which means I'm unlikely to be lying in any major way on my diary. When I eat less, I lose less. When I eat more, I lose more. So if it was as simple as calories in VS calories out, how does that make any sense?
Ok I just looked through your diary and like I said you have cheated your body with this dumb surgery...you wanted a quick fix but you didnt want to change your habits
I see multiple taco bell/mcdonalds/fast food/fried foods/processed foods
one day you went to taco bell twice AND mcdonalds
Hell I am all for moderation and dont get me wrong I love the occasional fast food product.
Surgery is supposed to be a tool to get you on your way to learning and practising better habits and your not. So no wonder you are not losing, most days you eat like ****
that can add up. No wonder the nutritionist "knows nothing" she is probably recommending healthy foods that will give you the most nutritional; bang for the portion and you arent trying to hear that are you?
Geuss what? A moment on the lips a lifetime on the hips, eventually you stomach will adjust too its new self and because you havnt learned or listened the lbs will creep back on again.
Enjoy your crap food.
Had an unnecessary surgery. You could have taken other measures to fix you diabetes. But.....laziness.
You had a surgery without even doing full research of who would help you with you nutrition afterwards.
You had the surgery and now can only handle less food, so your solution is.....smaller portions of Mcdonald and Taco Bell.
Lol
EXACTLY!
you think eating **** food without the bun is "trying"????
You make WLS look bad!
Get real
Btw, it's not like I even eat there every day.
OMG
ok enjoy your macdonalds
see you in 5-8 years whaen you are wondering why the weight came back on
This! :drinker:0 -
it's not really that simple. your body will try and conserve calories if it thinks you're starving. light exercise can help with this - a longer, less vigorous walk can help more than a shorter more vigorous walk. people who are more muscular burn more calories than people of the same weight who have more bodyfat.0
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Yeah, right. Google it. Go to dsfacts.com and read up if you don't believe me. FYI I've lost 70lbs in 4 1/2 months. So...I must be doing something right. Tried low fat. Lost no weight, hair fell out, skin went dry and started breaking out, was nauseated all the time. Bumped fat up, started losing weight again, and my hair stopped falling out and skin issues resolved.OMG
ok enjoy your macdonalds
see you in 5-8 years whaen you are wondering why the weight came back on0 -
Nope, not lifting. I should be though. I'm just so damn tired all the time. I was pre-op too but it feels a little worse now. No energy. I try to walk, at least. Got a used fitbit zip yesterday so I can keep track of my steps and hoping it will spur me on to walk more. I know 400 calories is bad, but eating can just be such a damn pain. I have to eat all the time now and I hate it. Yesterday was a bad day, but the day before that, I got my protein in and did good. Just have to keep eating for success. Never thought pre-op that I'd come to hate eating so much, but christ it's an annoyance to have to eat ever 3 hours.There is such a thing as adaptive thermogenesis - if you're eating too far below your TDEE, your body will adapt and your resting metabolic rate will plummet drastically. If you're like me, it could drop to 400 kcals a day. Ever gained weight at 500 kcals a day? It blows. Don't put yourself too far below your TDEE for long periods of time.
10-20% is suggested for a cut.
You can use the calculators here -
www.iifym.com
Also, hormones, stress etc.. can have a huge effect on your weight loss. And if you are lifting weights like you should be, your weight may stay the same while you are losing dress sizes.
I'm curious to know if you consider the surgery a success, everything you've said here makes it sound like a disaster.0 -
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Yeah, right. Google it. Go to dsfacts.com and read up if you don't believe me. FYI I've lost 70lbs in 4 1/2 months. So...I must be doing something right. Tried low fat. Lost no weight, hair fell out, skin went dry and started breaking out, was nauseated all the time. Bumped fat up, started losing weight again, and my hair stopped falling out and skin issues resolved.OMG
ok enjoy your macdonalds
see you in 5-8 years whaen you are wondering why the weight came back on
If this is the way you have to eat for the rest of your life it's time to start educating yourself on good fats. Just because you're on a high fat diet doesn't mean you should be eating cheaply produced, crappy burgers.0 -
I'm inbetween. It's been hard....real hard. 70lbs in 4 1/2 months is not bad, however. But the main thing is I want weight loss that will stay off. And this surgery has the best stats for keeping it off long term. I don't expect to get down to 120lbs because I started with a BMI of 63.
Nope, not lifting. I should be though. I'm just so damn tired all the time. I was pre-op too but it feels a little worse now. No energy. I try to walk, at least. Got a used fitbit zip yesterday so I can keep track of my steps and hoping it will spur me on to walk more. I know 400 calories is bad, but eating can just be such a damn pain. I have to eat all the time now and I hate it. Yesterday was a bad day, but the day before that, I got my protein in and did good. Just have to keep eating for success. Never thought pre-op that I'd come to hate eating so much, but christ it's an annoyance to have to eat ever 3 hours.There is such a thing as adaptive thermogenesis - if you're eating too far below your TDEE, your body will adapt and your resting metabolic rate will plummet drastically. If you're like me, it could drop to 400 kcals a day. Ever gained weight at 500 kcals a day? It blows. Don't put yourself too far below your TDEE for long periods of time.
10-20% is suggested for a cut.
You can use the calculators here -
www.iifym.com
Also, hormones, stress etc.. can have a huge effect on your weight loss. And if you are lifting weights like you should be, your weight may stay the same while you are losing dress sizes.
I'm curious to know if you consider the surgery a success, everything you've said here makes it sound like a disaster.
So, really....ask me in a year.0 -
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Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe I read that the reason why the OP had this surgery was to cure her diabetes?!?!?! And that it has been cured?!?!?! While I do not have diabetes, I do have family members who do so I found this very interesting.
SO, I googled "is there a cure for diabetes", and I got "About 18,300,000 results (0.46 secnds)" that says otherwise....got news for you, OP.... NOT only are you now suffering the consequences of this surgery, but YOU STILL HAVE DIABETES. Nice....
Don't know who led you to believe this surgery was a cure for diabetes... must have been the surgeon who knows nothing about nutrition... or the nutritionist who knows nothing about the surgery, because obviously neither of them knows anything.
As for your argument about weightloss not being as simple as calories in vs calories out... in your situation, it could very well be the case. I don't know anything about this surgery, nor do I care to know since it is not an option in my life. However, IF this was something I would have ever contemplated, I would have most definitely found out the repurcussions of messing with my body before I set out to have anything rerouted in my body...When you make the decision for an invasive ELECTIVE surgery, you pay the consequences. I say "elective" because you did admit that you were able to lose weight in the past. It's all about behavior modification.... no surgery in the world will keep the weight off if you don't learn to make permanent changes in your eating behaviors...
....and you still have diabetes0 -
Those are days I was on the road/out and busy and had to eat. I mostly prepare food at home. Saturated fats are not evil. Trans fats are bad, yes, but saturated? No. I can eat butter en masse if I want to get my fat up - in fact, butter and heavy whipping cream are supposed to be staples.
Yeah, right. Google it. Go to dsfacts.com and read up if you don't believe me. FYI I've lost 70lbs in 4 1/2 months. So...I must be doing something right. Tried low fat. Lost no weight, hair fell out, skin went dry and started breaking out, was nauseated all the time. Bumped fat up, started losing weight again, and my hair stopped falling out and skin issues resolved.OMG
ok enjoy your macdonalds
see you in 5-8 years whaen you are wondering why the weight came back on
If this is the way you have to eat for the rest of your life it's time to start educating yourself on good fats. Just because you're on a high fat diet doesn't mean you should be eating cheaply produced, crappy burgers.0
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