Do you believe in strictly Calories In - Calories Out?

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  • Veil5577
    Veil5577 Posts: 868 Member
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    If CICO doesn't work, explain the Twinkie diet and how a guy lost weight eating Twinkies but kept a calorie deficit?

    It's a simple fact. Burn more than you take in=weight loss.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
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    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
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    Wrong my friend, not my opinion. Read and learn!

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    The fact that behaviour, commitment, consistency and awareness all play a part doesn't render the underlying principle of creating a net calorie deficit invalid.

    The fact that a parachute works isn't evidence that gravity doesn't work, it's evidence for the interplay of different factors in a system having an effect.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Here is one: http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

    That's not helped your case. First line is "I think..." and it's unsupported. So your opinion is backed up by someone elses opinion and speculation.
    Wrong my friend, not my opinion. Read and learn!

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html
    Oh look another article, with no link to the study they're supposedly basing their commentary on - usually indicative of cherry picking information for their personal agenda.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    Here is one: http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

    That's not helped your case. First line is "I think..." and it's unsupported. So your opinion is backed up by someone elses opinion and speculation.
    Wrong my friend, not my opinion. Read and learn!

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html
    Oh look another article, with no link to the study they're supposedly basing their commentary on - usually indicative of cherry picking information for their personal agenda.
    Don't forget "often misinterpreting the presented data to fit your opinion" when I think about the aspartame thread and the cancer rats...
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
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    Here is one: http://authoritynutrition.com/debunking-the-calorie-myth/

    Wrong my friend, not my opinion. Read and learn!

    http://www.thegreatfitnessexperiment.com/2011/07/harvard-says-calories-incalories-out-model-is-flawed-so-what-do-we-use-instead.html

    That's not helped your case. First line is "I think..." and it's unsupported. So your opinion is backed up by someone elses opinion and speculation.

    I have only skim read this study so forgive me......... however, no mention appears to be made of the participants actually tracking daily calorie intake? They filled out a questionnaire every 2 years to report on lifestyle changes..the study seems to report that weight gain is associated with the consumption of certain types of foods which in itself is reasonable.

    It does NOT appear to state that regardless of overall calorie intake, certain types of food lead directly weight gain.

    Based on my (admittedly very brief) look at this, it doesn't seem to support what you are saying.

    someone with more time on their hands could probably due a better job with the full text

    http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1014296?query=TOC&#t=articleMethods
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    Yes, what I'm trying to say is that a body needs energy and that energy has to come from somewhere and the other way around if more energy goes in than your body needs that energy can't disappear into nothingness (conservation of energy).

    This is true, but conservation of energy doesn't disallow for CiCo to have issues - imagine that eating x with y resulted in the energy of x not being absorbed. Or that eating y in the morning was slight more enzymatically efficient in conversion to energy than eating it in the evening ... Would conservation of energy be abused? Not at all.

    Those exact things do happen, but they are just not very important. And people that try to blow up CiCo focus on those.

    CiCo isn't exact it doesn't follow conservation of energy exactly but it remains a solid empirical method because hundreds of studies and the leading metabolic models show that the principal factor of available energy over the long term is the energy consumed. All the other factors, that do exist, play second fiddle.

    In a way CiCo is "broken" but is was never an exact equation, it works because ... we've seen it work empirically. One could write this better as weight loss is a factor of many things .....

    weight loss = F(α * Calories In, β * Calories out, γ * past weight, δ * exercise timing, etc.....)

    the alpha and the beta remain the most important elements, in the absence of certain diseases.
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
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    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority



    http://www.biomechanicsandhealth.com/calories.htm
  • Momjogger
    Momjogger Posts: 750 Member
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    Curious what everyone thinks of this article from Harvard.

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/
    This article mimics what I have experienced in real life and what I base my eating on when I am being healthy and actively trying to lose weight. Thanks for the link!
  • amyenman1
    amyenman1 Posts: 64 Member
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    #2) Ever since I introduced weight lifting (bench press, squat, dead lift, shoulders) 3 weeks ago, my weight loss has screeched to a snails pace (1 pound or less per week while being in a 2.5 pound caloric deficit). It is common knowledge that you don't build muscle while in a caloric defect. Am I holding onto water in the muscles for nearly 3 weeks now? As soon as I get my hands on a tape measure large enough I'll start measuring.
    . amyenman


    I'm not a fit mother f#*+er, but I think it's partially because you're not losing as much LBM/muscle mass (yay!). You're hopefully losing just fat. The 2.5lb deficit MFP assumes you're losing both.

    EDIT: Also, asking if we believe in calories in/calories out is like asking if we believe in the law of gravity... um, duh.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
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    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority

    I'd also adjust the above ot say that saiety, alignment to performance, and personal preference to adherence are more important than 3&4...
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
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    Curious what everyone thinks of this article from Harvard.

    http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2012/06/when-a-calorie-is-not-just-a-calorie/
    This article mimics what I have experienced in real life and what I base my eating on when I am being healthy and actively trying to lose weight. Thanks for the link!


    Thank you!
  • meadow_sage
    meadow_sage Posts: 308 Member
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    For losing weight, yes. For being healthy, absolutely not. I am a diabetic and I have high blood pressure. Weight loss/control is only one part of being healthy. Exercise and eating food that is good for you MATTERS. For those who only watch their calories, you may not have issues today but one day you most likely will.
    A couple questions. I used the search function but some of the info may be outdated - not sure.

    #1) Do YOU believe in strictly calories in - calories out? As in, you could eat all of your calories in pure table sugar, and although its incredibly unhealthy, you would lose weight if you're in a caloric defecit? If so, is there ever a situation where a caloric deficit would NOT lead to weight loss?

    #2) Ever since I introduced weight lifting (bench press, squat, dead lift, shoulders) 3 weeks ago, my weight loss has screeched to a snails pace (1 pound or less per week while being in a 2.5 pound caloric deficit). It is common knowledge that you don't build muscle while in a caloric defect. Am I holding onto water in the muscles for nearly 3 weeks now? As soon as I get my hands on a tape measure large enough I'll start measuring.

    #3) If Insulin stores fat, how do we lose weight while eating carbs and sugars (even in a caloric deficit) while insulin levels are elevated?

    Thanks.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
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    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority



    http://www.biomechanicsandhealth.com/calories.htm
    This states the human metabolism is not a closed system and some calories are not absorbed, but excreted.

    If you don't eat them in the first place, they still can't make you fatter, you know.
  • EvgeniZyntx
    EvgeniZyntx Posts: 24,208 Member
    Options
    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority



    http://www.biomechanicsandhealth.com/calories.htm

    Your blog (lol) reference in no way disputes the list of important variables.
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
    Options
    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority

    I'd also adjust the above ot say that saiety, alignment to performance, and personal preference to adherence are more important than 3&4...
    [/q

    Not true old dogma.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131009201059.htm?utm_source=feedburner
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
    Options
    CiCo isn't exact it doesn't follow conservation of energy exactly but it remains a solid empirical method because hundreds of studies and the leading metabolic models show that the principal factor of available energy over the long term is the energy consumed. All the other factors, that do exist, play second fiddle.

    Equally one is never going to expend and store more enegry than one actually consumes, the debate is around the efficiency of the process, and whether conditions might lead to a greater degree of the consumed energy being disposed of as other waste.
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
    Options
    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority

    I'd also adjust the above ot say that saiety, alignment to performance, and personal preference to adherence are more important than 3&4...
    [/q

    Not true old dogma.

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131009201059.htm?utm_source=feedburner


    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131009201059.htm?utm_source=feedburner
  • 59gi
    59gi Posts: 307 Member
    Options
    Dr. Michael Israetel Nutritional Priorities for Body Composition
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Szzo5Uy5aQU
    Cliffs:
    Most important Variables:
    1. CICO -The most important of any diet
    2. Macronutrient amounts
    3. Nutrient Timing - considerablely less impact than 1 & 2
    4. Food Composition -dead last in nutritional priority



    http://www.biomechanicsandhealth.com/calories.htm
    This states the human metabolism is not a closed system and some calories are not absorbed, but excreted.

    If you don't eat them in the first place, they still can't make you fatter, you know.
    [/qu








    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131009201059.htm?utm_source=feedburner
  • Hendrix7
    Hendrix7 Posts: 1,903 Member
    Options

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131009201059.htm?utm_source=feedburner

    How is this link relevant to the conversation?

    Self reported calorie intake data is notoriously inaccurate and this has been known for some time....I don't really see how that is relevant?

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