Veganism

Now now, don't go bashing me personally. I am simply listing, mostly word for word, arguments I found on other sites and blogs I was perusing today.

I am not bashing you personally. I am pointing out that pretty much everything on your lists aren't actually evidence in either direction.

Except chicken nugget goop. Male chicks are thrown live into a grinder. I saw it. Don't tell me that's not how we get chicken nugget goop because I watched it firsthand.

*sigh*

Male chicks are typically culled. Despite the apparent horror of the grinder, it is actually one of the quickest and most humane ways to kill these unwanted male chicks. Death is almost instantaneous. It's horrible. I'm not arguing that it's not. But, it's not cruel.

As for the ground up chicks, they are not part of the components of chicken nuggets. That is just plain false. It may be sold in pet foods, or other animal feeds, but it is not sold for human consumption. You're not eating ground up male chicks when you eat nuggets.

I couldn't do veganism. I like meat too much, but I agree with better treatment of animals. If we're going to have these animals as meals, I would prefer they be treated with love and dignity and basic decency beforehand. I also wish there was a more humane way to kill these animals. I also don't like the fact that baby animals are killed, but that's more of an "AW, how can you kill something so cute?" response than anything.

Yep this right here. I prefer to try and eat meat from local farmers but sometimes I just can't afford it.

Pros:
1. False. Our appendix is an organ for dealing with raw meat, that no longer functions because we've evolved not to need it. Nails - we have tools to kill with. Most herbivores spend a lot more of the day eating than we do.
2. Vegetables are affected by this too.
3. Maybe the US farms are more like that, but all the chicken products I eat come from free range chickens. Similar situation for other farm animals.

If anyone mentions Gorillas, keep in mind they spend the majority of their day eating and ****ting, and by some mechanism of their digestion, produce yeast in their gut.

Cooking meat and breaking down the protein is a good way to kill of dangerous bacteria, and we can still make use of the Amino Acids, so not really a problem.

All that said, if veganism is suitable for you (lifestyle, activity, nutritional needs), go nuts - just don't preach it to me.

Vegan is an "ism" now? The things I learn on MFP...

hasnt it always been?

I guess considering the definition of the suffix, it always has been. I've never been fond of isms.

Vegan is an "ism" now? The things I learn on MFP...

hasnt it always been?

I guess considering the definition of the suffix, it always has been. I've never been fond of isms.

It's an archaism, possibly even from Atticism.

To be fair- I did say- and I quote
"If you are going to try to start an intelligent discussion then you need to arm yourself intelligently and put some more research into this"

But that is clearly NOT a personal attack. Or calling the OP unintelligent or ignorant or stupid, nor is it bashing her.

Yeah, I read that. I didn't think it was a personal attack (because it wasn't). That's why I didn't include it when responding the the OP's claims of persecution. I guess, if I stretch, I could see how it could be taken as insulting. But, I didn't read it that way.

I haven't done much research. All I know is, damn I love meat. I feel fine when I eat it, and I have no moral objection to it. My uncle is a cattleherd. Those cows live happier lives than I do. I've seen them.

Point by Point


1. Humans are not carnivores.

Correct statement in that we are not only meat eaters. We've been omnivores for eons. Studies and science cannot change that. We may be evolving to herbivores, but based on what I eat, I'd say I'm not there yet. Guess I'm behind on the evolutionary scale. I also find it absolutely amazing that the vast majority of humans on the planet (we're talking in the billions here) are omnivores, when all these studies say that it is against our nature and physiology. If all the evidence says that humans are designed to be vegan, who is the piper that led us down the road of ruination by convincing us it is okay to eat meat? That had to be the biggest marketing feat ever!


2. Food safety

Now I think we're off into organic vs. non-organic arguments. You can be a non-organic vegan and still have those concerns with pesticides.

3. Mistreatment of animals

Check and see how KFC gets their chicken. Chances are your chicken breast are from a very similar process, especially if purchased at your local grocery store.

Animals (free range and grass fed) are treated pretty well...right up to the time they're killed for consumption. I would say most would call that mistreatment. I know I would feel mistreated if someone were to kill me. Let's ask the guy in Arizona if he feels he was mistreated.


CONS of Veganism:

1. Deficiencies

If you eat the right foods, you can make up these deficiencies. It's mostly about combining the proper foods.

2. Morality

Now we're getting out to where the buses don't run, but I do like that you recognize that, while those wearing the capes with the big V are claiming the moral high ground because they don't kill living things, they need to take a look at where their fruits, vegetables and nuts come from. These are living things and when you chomp on them, they are dead..

The sad fact is that pro-vegan activist like to use this argument to guilt us meat eaters into something we don't want to do. Yet are they out there with the meat eating lions, tigers and such convincing them to not eat other animals? Then why pick on me? Oh, because it is against the law for me to kill them for doing so and I have sufficient MORALITY to make them feel safe enough to approach me to espouse their viewpoint.

3. Environment:

Pesticides consumption can be tricky, but I'd be willing to bet a Big Mac that there is no place in the continental U. S. that hasn't had the water contaminated to some degree with some sort of chemical. If someone is watering crops to the extent they are causing a drought, that's news to me. Also a bit counterproductive. What good is your crop if everyone you are selling it to dies of thirst?

My thoughts:

Vegan or vegetarian-why the distinction? It's because a vegetarian is just a sort of committed vegan, unwilling to take their alleged belief to the point of discomfort in not being able to enjoy some of the foods they've loved since birth. "I''m a vegetarian so I can eat eggs and drink milk. I just don't eat meat". Yes, you do. It is just the meat hasn't matured yet. Someone I know recently went vegetarian and continues to buy snack crackers and other such fare. Read the labels and see what sort of products that come from animal flesh are in there.

If someone wants to go vegan or vegetarian, I say go for it. I have known people that have done so; some stick with it some don't. Personally, I would miss a good sirloin steak, medium well (preferably from Ruth's Chris Steak House) way too much if I went that route.

But if you want to go vegan, just do it and be quiet about it. I don't say a word to people about my choices until they get all up in my grille (pun intended) about trying to convert me to their choice. Like the woman soliciting money for All Species Kinship in front of the grocery store, asking me about don't I want to have a special kinship with the little critters. I told her I do have that kinship, every time I grill their flesh. I think she threw up a bit in her mouth; Like I said - I don't push mine on you so don't think because I'm walking in the store you can push yours on me without getting a little pushback.

Then again, I'm a bit childish that way.