Keto Diet, Give It A Try?

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  • Sarauk2sf
    Sarauk2sf Posts: 28,072 Member
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    This was a great read for people who carb up on keto.


    Carb cycling programs never allow the body to become fully fat adapted, which I believe takes 3-6 weeks. The metabolism just shuts down & awaits a return to glycolysis. You hear bodybuilders claim that their body doesn't function without carbs, this is because they've done carb cycling & never allowed their body to convert - so it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. This study referenced:

    show that the body (even for athletes) become fat adapted *with time* & allow unimpaired endurance performance despite nutritional ketosis. "The most obvious of these is the time allotted (or not) for keto-adaptation. In this context, the prescient observation of Schwatka (that adaptation to "a diet of reindeer meat" takes 2–3 weeks) says it all. None of the comparative low-carbohydrate versus high-carbohydrate studies done in support of the carbohydrate loading hypothesis sustained the low carbohydrate diet for more than 2 weeks .... There are to date no studies that carefully examine the optimum length of this keto-adaptation period, but it is clearly longer than one week and likely well advanced within 3–4 weeks. The process does not appear to happen any faster in highly trained athletes than in overweight or untrained individuals. This adaptation process also appears to require consistent adherence to carbohydrate restriction, as people who intermittently consume carbohydrates while attempting a ketogenic diet report subjectively reduced exercise tolerance." I highly recommend low carb way of eating for optimal health. It takes 3-6 weeks for the body to become fully fat adapted to perform athletically but the body does convert *if* carb cycling is not used. Athletes studied said their performance was effected the first week or so but recovered to full athletic ability within a few weeks. For bodybuilders, low carb creates lean tissues even without working out, working out should create even more muscle mass. When insulin dominates the blood stream, testosterone & human growth hormone (HGH) aren't produced, which are both anabolic hormones & contribute to muscle growth. Excess protein is converted to glucose *unless* dietary fat levels are greater than 80% of dietary calories, then I believe that excess protein is forced to create lean tissues (just as excess carbohydrates are forced to create fat tissues). Marathon athletes aren't restricted to glycogen stores. Athletes in glycolysis (using glucose for fuel) have to "carb load" to fill glycogen stores but athletes in ketosis (using fat for fuel) don't have these restrictions. A normal weighted person has enough fat stores to run for more than 200 hours - glycogen stores only last a few hours before being depleted & the athlete "hits the wall" from the article below -Numerous current studies show that dieters who follow high-protein low-carb strategies--even plans with higher fat intake--lose more fat and maintain or gain more muscle mass than dieters who rely on higher carb diets. Yes, you read that right--many dieters actually gained muscle mass without working out, simply by eating a high-protein diet. This is due to several factors. First, amino acids from protein drive muscle growth. When you consume a high-protein meal, amino acids from the protein travel to muscle cells and actually initiate the processes that cause muscle growth.

    I highly recommend adding virgin coconut oil to your diet. All fats can be used for sustained energy, but coconut oil is the (only) fat that can be used for quick energy like a carb. I think that ketosis is not the back up fuel plan. I think ketosis was meant to be primary fuel plan, that is easily overridden (one bite) by ingestion of carbs (or alcohol). The body is rarely allowed to become fully fat adapted, especially in these days of people using processed food formula to feed infants instead of breast milk. Carbs were never supposed to be available year around, only seasonally during harvest. The body can easily handle carbs even in excess occasionally, just not continuously. The body can also be fueled by protein (via gluconeogenesis) but long term protein synthesis creates the byproducts of ammonia & nitrogen. The body can easily handle clearing out these byproducts but if gluconeogenesis is used as the primary fuel source for long term, the body can be overwhelmed (poisoned) by the excess ammonia & nitrogen. It's all contingent on balance but the body functions at optimal levels on more dietary fat & suboptimal levels on less dietary fat. Source(s): Glucose is the bodies preferred fuel - the body can convert 100% of carbs, 58% of protein & 10% of dietary fat into glucose. The body can also be fueled by fat (dietary fat & fat cells) but only in the absence of carbs. Your brain actually prefers* to be fueled by ketones (part of the fat burning process), it does require glucose also, but glucose can be easily converted from excess protein if needed or dietary fat. * After 3 days of carb restriction, the brain uses ketone bodies as fuel, cutting its need for glucose. The production of ketone bodies & glycerol cuts the brain's glucose requirement from 120 g per day to about 10 g per day in time. Ketones have been described as "magic" in their ability to increase metabolic efficiency, while decreasing production of free radicals, the damaging byproducts of normal metabolism. The heart and brain operate 25% more efficiently using ketones as a source of energy.

    Its good to cite the source:

    http://sg.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130402073618AACWtdo

    Which cites merclola and the following:

    http://www.nutritionandmetabolism.com/content/1/1/2

    Conclusions


    Both observational and prospectively designed studies support the conclusion that submaximal endurance performance can be sustained despite the virtual exclusion of carbohydrate from the human diet. Clearly this result does not automatically follow the casual implementation of dietary carbohydrate restriction, however, as careful attention to time for keto-adaptation, mineral nutriture, and constraint of the daily protein dose is required. Contradictory results in the scientific literature can be explained by the lack of attention to these lessons learned (and for the most part now forgotten) by the cultures that traditionally lived by hunting. Therapeutic use of ketogenic diets should not require constraint of most forms of physical labor or recreational activity, with the one caveat that anaerobic (ie, weight lifting or sprint) performance is limited by the low muscle glycogen levels induced by a ketogenic diet, and this would strongly discourage its use under most conditions of competitive athletics.
  • onedayatatime12
    onedayatatime12 Posts: 577 Member
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    Wouldn't this diet also result in a loss of lean muscle in addition to fat? Or so I would presume..
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    That is not what a lot of prominant names in Cross fit say. Ketosis is a fat adaptive state that uses your bodies fat stores for energy. More and more high performance athletes are starting to move towards a more ketogenic diet because it can sustain them longer.

    Lol crossfit. Anyways, fat adaptation is another myth like the metabolic advantage low carbers like to go on about, however the current body of literature does not agree with either things.

    Also let's say fat adaptation was true, where are all the fat adapted endurance athletes dominating their carb fueled competitors?
  • KatLifter
    KatLifter Posts: 1,314 Member
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    Wouldn't this diet also result in a loss of lean muscle in addition to fat? Or so I would presume..

    Whenever you lose weight there is loss of lean muscle. Check out the article I posted above. According to some of the literature it actually looks like low carb diets preserve muscle better than low fat diets.
  • otyas
    otyas Posts: 4
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    Research shows that a Keto diet and a restricted calorie diet where both dieters are consuming the same calories, both produce the same amount of fat loss. S fat loss is not excelled in a Keto diet of 1700 cals over a regular caloric deficit diet of 1700 cals
    ( assuming both people need 1700 cals to be in a 500 deficit)

    I have read the same thing however my own experience was different. I did 3 months of low carb for an 18 kg loss. I have now transitioned off "Atkins" induction (20g carbs per day) to a 150g average. During induction I found that a typical 900 calorie daily deficit (after accounting for basal metabolic rate and additional activity) produced an average fat loss of 200g versus an expected 100g per day (9 calories per gram of fat). I have heard this called the "Atkins advantage". I personally believe it is due to metabolic inefficiencies in burning fat/ketones for energy and the loss of ketones in urine, sweat and breath.

    Notwithstanding, the real benefit for me was that I wasn't tortured with hunger and cravings. Low carb diets break the sugar insulin craving cycle. Salvation.

    In addition, it has led to much healthier nutrition for all my family who now eat much more teppanyaki style fish, chicken and lean beef by virtue of me preparing most of the meals. Whilst I now have breads and other carbs at moderate amounts, I ingest much more dietary fibre, vegetables and healthy fats every day.
  • bassejm0
    bassejm0 Posts: 25 Member
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    That is not what a lot of prominant names in Cross fit say. Ketosis is a fat adaptive state that uses your bodies fat stores for energy. More and more high performance athletes are starting to move towards a more ketogenic diet because it can sustain them longer.

    Lol crossfit. Anyways, fat adaptation is another myth like the metabolic advantage low carbers like to go on about, however the current body of literature does not agree with either things.

    Also let's say fat adaptation was true, where are all the fat adapted endurance athletes dominating their carb fueled competitors?

    Here's one :)

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/08/11/western-states-100-low-carber-wins-ultramarathon-steve-phinney-and-jeff-volek-study/
  • ngyoung
    ngyoung Posts: 311 Member
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    That is not what a lot of prominant names in Cross fit say. Ketosis is a fat adaptive state that uses your bodies fat stores for energy. More and more high performance athletes are starting to move towards a more ketogenic diet because it can sustain them longer.

    Lol crossfit. Anyways, fat adaptation is another myth like the metabolic advantage low carbers like to go on about, however the current body of literature does not agree with either things.

    Also let's say fat adaptation was true, where are all the fat adapted endurance athletes dominating their carb fueled competitors?

    I was replying to a user with Crossfit in his username. Also here for example:

    http://www.vinnietortorich.com/
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    That is not what a lot of prominant names in Cross fit say. Ketosis is a fat adaptive state that uses your bodies fat stores for energy. More and more high performance athletes are starting to move towards a more ketogenic diet because it can sustain them longer.

    Lol crossfit. Anyways, fat adaptation is another myth like the metabolic advantage low carbers like to go on about, however the current body of literature does not agree with either things.

    Also let's say fat adaptation was true, where are all the fat adapted endurance athletes dominating their carb fueled competitors?

    Here's one :)

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/08/11/western-states-100-low-carber-wins-ultramarathon-steve-phinney-and-jeff-volek-study/

    Whoops

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/815108-fat-adaptation-theory-is-still-a-low-carb-fantasy?
  • bassejm0
    bassejm0 Posts: 25 Member
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    That is not what a lot of prominant names in Cross fit say. Ketosis is a fat adaptive state that uses your bodies fat stores for energy. More and more high performance athletes are starting to move towards a more ketogenic diet because it can sustain them longer.

    Lol crossfit. Anyways, fat adaptation is another myth like the metabolic advantage low carbers like to go on about, however the current body of literature does not agree with either things.

    Also let's say fat adaptation was true, where are all the fat adapted endurance athletes dominating their carb fueled competitors?

    Here's one :)

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/08/11/western-states-100-low-carber-wins-ultramarathon-steve-phinney-and-jeff-volek-study/

    Whoops

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/815108-fat-adaptation-theory-is-still-a-low-carb-fantasy?

    Okay, I'll admit, there is some skepticism about this dude. You obviously invest way more time trying to prove that ketogenic diets are terrible, awful diets. I simply don't have the time to put in as much effort to refute you, but I'll offer my simple anecdotal story.

    I have followed a ketogenic diet now for almost a year, and I've never felt better. I have tried straight calorie counting and weight watchers before with very little success (maybe 10 pounds lost). Recently, I went back to my old diary records and saw that during those days, I was eating a vast majority of my diet in carbs, some protein, and little to no fat. Maybe if I had tweaked my diet to have more fat and protein, I could have been more successful, but I was constantly craving whole wheat bread and fruit (not cookies, chips, or other junk food). I could get to my calorie limit for the day, but I was always famished and fatigued. It was as if I couldn't really stick to the 40-30-30 principal. Maybe I just have terrible will power and I'm a much weaker/gluttonous individual, but I think cutting out carbs has helped me immensely. For me personally, it has been a thousand times easier to maintain a calorie deficit. And hey, I have more energy, and I actually enjoy working out now. And my blood work? Ideal.

    That said, I agree people can lose weight by just calorie restricting and watching their macros, but I think that may be easier for some than others. I've seen no major health consequences from my diet, and I have 3 doctors who also support my dietary decisions, so if it works well for some, why not let them try it?
  • ngyoung
    ngyoung Posts: 311 Member
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    Okay, I'll admit, there is some skepticism about this dude. You obviously invest way more time trying to prove that ketogenic diets are terrible, awful diets. I simply don't have the time to put in as much effort to refute you, but I'll offer my simple anecdotal story.

    I have followed a ketogenic diet now for almost a year, and I've never felt better. I have tried straight calorie counting and weight watchers before with very little success (maybe 10 pounds lost). Recently, I went back to my old diary records and saw that during those days, I was eating a vast majority of my diet in carbs, some protein, and little to no fat. Maybe if I had tweaked my diet to have more fat and protein, I could have been more successful, but I was constantly craving whole wheat bread and fruit (not cookies, chips, or other junk food). I could get to my calorie limit for the day, but I was always famished and fatigued. It was as if I couldn't really stick to the 40-30-30 principal. Maybe I just have terrible will power and I'm a much weaker/gluttonous individual, but I think cutting out carbs has helped me immensely. For me personally, it has been a thousand times easier to maintain a calorie deficit. And hey, I have more energy, and I actually enjoy working out now. And my blood work? Ideal.

    That said, I agree people can lose weight by just calorie restricting and watching their macros, but I think that may be easier for some than others. I've seen no major health consequences from my diet, and I have 3 doctors who also support my dietary decisions, so if it works well for some, why not let them try it?

    This^

    What works for one person may not work for someone else. If being low-carb, keto, paleo, primal, vegan, or whatever works for you to maintain a healthy weight and feel better all the more power to you. I think all agree that if you strive to eat real natural food and get away from processed/prepackaged junk is one of the most significant changes that you can make. I think all will agree that limiting donuts, cookies, cakes, candy, etc to special occasion treats is a good thing.
  • Acg67
    Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
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    That is not what a lot of prominant names in Cross fit say. Ketosis is a fat adaptive state that uses your bodies fat stores for energy. More and more high performance athletes are starting to move towards a more ketogenic diet because it can sustain them longer.

    Lol crossfit. Anyways, fat adaptation is another myth like the metabolic advantage low carbers like to go on about, however the current body of literature does not agree with either things.

    Also let's say fat adaptation was true, where are all the fat adapted endurance athletes dominating their carb fueled competitors?

    Here's one :)

    http://www.meandmydiabetes.com/2012/08/11/western-states-100-low-carber-wins-ultramarathon-steve-phinney-and-jeff-volek-study/

    Whoops

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/815108-fat-adaptation-theory-is-still-a-low-carb-fantasy?

    Okay, I'll admit, there is some skepticism about this dude. You obviously invest way more time trying to prove that ketogenic diets are terrible, awful diets. I simply don't have the time to put in as much effort to refute you, but I'll offer my simple anecdotal story.

    I have followed a ketogenic diet now for almost a year, and I've never felt better. I have tried straight calorie counting and weight watchers before with very little success (maybe 10 pounds lost). Recently, I went back to my old diary records and saw that during those days, I was eating a vast majority of my diet in carbs, some protein, and little to no fat. Maybe if I had tweaked my diet to have more fat and protein, I could have been more successful, but I was constantly craving whole wheat bread and fruit (not cookies, chips, or other junk food). I could get to my calorie limit for the day, but I was always famished and fatigued. It was as if I couldn't really stick to the 40-30-30 principal. Maybe I just have terrible will power and I'm a much weaker/gluttonous individual, but I think cutting out carbs has helped me immensely. For me personally, it has been a thousand times easier to maintain a calorie deficit. And hey, I have more energy, and I actually enjoy working out now. And my blood work? Ideal.

    That said, I agree people can lose weight by just calorie restricting and watching their macros, but I think that may be easier for some than others. I've seen no major health consequences from my diet, and I have 3 doctors who also support my dietary decisions, so if it works well for some, why not let them try it?

    Yes, clearly I've said keto diets are terrible and awful. Strong reading comprehension
  • Joocey
    Joocey Posts: 115 Member
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    More and more high performance athletes are starting to move towards a more ketogenic diet because it can sustain them longer.

    Gonna need a source on that since it seems contrary to observation and common sense.

    High performance athletes usually carb up like crazy.

    High performance crossfit athletes shouldn't be an exception. Froning, at least, seems to eat whatever. Even accounting for the Paleo craze that seems to follow Crossfit, Froning seems to eat a lot of jelly and milk. Neither are keto-friendly. (Or paleo, but that's a different discussion.)
  • highervibes
    highervibes Posts: 2,219 Member
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    I eat 100g or less carbs per day, when they come from non-grain sources, that is A LOT of vegetables. I'm eating fruit and veggies at ever single meal, something I did a lot less of before. I still eat sweet potatoes and the odd time rice, but I stay away from wheat because it makes me feel like I haven't eaten food in a year, bloated and er--- digestive upset lol. I make sure to get 120g of protein according to my LBM and the rest comes from fat. It works for me, and I find less than 100g is a good compromise between something like Atkins and the traditional recommendation of over 300g. I would do your own research and experiment. The body keeps an accurate journal :)
  • bassejm0
    bassejm0 Posts: 25 Member
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    Yes, clearly I've said keto diets are terrible and awful. Strong reading comprehension

    Acg67, I am truly sorry if I've offended you. I must have made an incorrect assumption based on your posting history (which shows that you enjoy trying prove that low carb lifestyles aren't helpful). It seems that you spend a lot of time and energy trying to knock them, and I guess I can't imagine any other reason that someone would spend so much time doing so. Maybe you just really enjoy debate? Who knows? Either way, I am happy that you've found something that works for you.

    OP, I would encourage you to try a keto diet and see if it works for you. If you try it, give it a fair go and try for few weeks before deciding against it. I know that if I were still attempting a "balanced" diet with higher amounts of carbs, I probably would not have seen what little success I've seen over the last year.
  • AlabasterVerve
    AlabasterVerve Posts: 3,171 Member
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    Re-look at what they are eating. They aren't getting a lot of really valuable vitamins and nutrients. While I'm sure they are losing weight fast, this is not the healthiest option. Slow and steady wins the race, and stays healthier :)

    I'm on a keto diet, and I had 3 different types of vegetables with my breakfast. Keto is not supposed to be all bacon and steak (although those play a role). You eat a LOT of different leafy green or fibrous vegetables. I've found that I've been eating less meat while on keto, and more vegetables and eggs.

    Plus 1 to this ^. A keto diet does not mean eat only meat and eggs. Vegetables are a significant part the diet.
    Same here. I don't follow a keto diet plan but I do eat a low carb diet and frequently go in and out of ketosis. Today alone I'll eat 5 1/2 cups of vegetables -- that's 11 servings I think? -- and still only 31 total carbs or 23 net if you subtract the fibre.
  • krae1289
    krae1289 Posts: 1 Member
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    I just started last week on this Diet. So far I'm seeing results, which no matter how hard I would try for months at a time eating right and exercising, I wasn't seeing them before. That is going to at least keep me on track for something. I started it with a co-worker and we are both thrilled with our results. I started because a friend of mine was having great success with her whole family. We support eachother now and that's really what It's all about. There is not a whole lot of reason for me to eat Carbs at least not the ones I was wanting. I was very skeptical at first, don't get me wrong, but I just found through google a HUGE study that has proven that Carbs are ADDICTIVE. That was my tipping point. I need to make a lifestyle change and Here it is. I would love some support if anyone else is doing this too.
  • DancingDreams1234
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    Isn't that the Atkin's Diet? I read the book last week, it was really interesting. However, I feel like we should just learn to control what we eat - not follow a diet.
  • LaurenAOK
    LaurenAOK Posts: 2,475 Member
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    I don't understand why people are such A-HOLES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    OP is obviously new and obviously doesn't know much about this diet or maybe any diet..instead of thinking you all are being funny (hur hur because you're not funny) why don't you offer some encouragement and direction to the right way to lose weight?

    Why even waste their time..... No life??????

    OP if you wanna add me as a friend I can direct you to some awesome encouraging people here... I try to stay away from the message board because people are not very nice anymore these days...

    And yes I did tell you!

    I fail to see how (up until this point, I didn't keep reading after your comment) anyone was mean to the OP. At all. Did people tell him he was wrong? Yes. Suddenly that's rude?

    The fact is, he posted some "facts" about a diet he hasn't even tried, saying he "highly recommends it," without even having most of the information correct. I'm sorry, but that's frustrating to see on a forum about health and fitness. I completely understand that he's new, and no one here bashed him or told him he was stupid for thinking these things! People did, however, correct him on his misinformation so maybe he won't spread it around in the future.

    I don't see why everything has to be sugar-coated. Many of the people who commented on this thread spend a lot of time in the forums and reply to A LOT of threads. They don't really have time to type out a long, sweet answer to every single person. A simple "your facts are incorrect" is sincere, to the point, and honestly not rude. It is probably best to stay away from the forums if you get your feelings hurt so easily.
  • mockchoc
    mockchoc Posts: 6,573 Member
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    Too much protein just feel gross to me......give me some carbs! Oh and I LOVE my steak and eat red meat way too much.

    Also wanted to say my doctor asked me if I was having too much protein and yes I was so dropped it. It made my cholesterol go up again.
  • otyas
    otyas Posts: 4
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    He is right.

    One word to google - GLUCONEOGENESIS

    This is why a keto diet is a more effective means of weight loss for the same calorie deficit. It take more energy to create the glucose the brain needs