Moderation DOES NOT WORK for me

I haven't read the entire thread, but I thought I'd throw my two cents worth in here anyway.

Changing your eating habits takes time, discipline, and a boatload of self-control. No one can do it for you; you have to decide that it's worth it. Don't wait until you're in your 40s--it's gets harder to lose the older you get.

Start with small substitutions. If you like ice cream, substitute frozen yogurt or the fat-free or sugar-free ice creams. They are just as good and won't sabotage your calories. Use Splenda or Stevia to sweeten your tea or drink water (they have great little flavor add-ins for your water, too, that are sugar-free). Eat a chicken breast instead of a steak. Eat extra veggies and less pasta. Switch to wheat bread (I don't like wheat, but I've switched to honey wheat, which is a good compromise between white and wheat). Drink skim milk or use unsweetened almond milk instead of whole milk. Eat a banana instead of cookies. Just simple things like this can make a difference. When you eat out, look for a good salad or on the low-cal menu (most restaurants have one). You'll be surprised how much you can eat when you choose the right foods--lower calorie instead of higher calorie.

Another good tip that I think was already mentioned was to drink a glass of water to fill up at night. Also, you can find something else to do besides eat. Sometimes what we think is hunger is more an issue of boredom. For example, I can't sit in front of the TV to watch something without something to do with my hands. In order to avoid eating during those times, I play solitaire or other games on my iPad.

Exercise, exercise, exercise. Not only will you do your body and heart good, but I find that the days I exercise hard, I tend to avoid the crap foods. I don't want to "undo" all that work I did! Plus, exercise releases all kinds of chemicals in your brain to make you feel good. I don't even feel true hunger as much on the days I work out.

Good luck, and remember...only YOU can do this. We can all support you, but you have to decide that you're worth fighting for.

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I don't have to do or not do anything and you are most welcome to ignore all of my posts.

I couldn't care less what food you eat. If it makes you happy, that's what matters.

Well get used to people constantly asking you to explain yourself when you make incorrect statements, then.

Are you that guy who posted about how his weight-loss knowledge wasn't taken seriously by the "skinny" guy at work?

If not, you should friend him. You two would probably hit it off.

Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

I don't think wiki is actually an authoritative source, but I also don't think it supports your claim of a possible naan addiction. Whereas the wiki article references food addiction (which I also think is a thing, as I said), it does not suggest that one can be addicted to specific food items merely because one likes them so much one has trouble not overeating them.

If you follow the relevant link, you get more information, consistent with that in the main article (and with what I said before). Basically, the issue is compulsive overeating or binge eating disorder. This involves much more than a difficulty not overconsuming specific food items that you find quite tasty.

The OP was extremely light on details (as I said before) but when someone tells me "I can't moderate my food intake!" that is a clarion call to me. I know exactly what they are talking about.

Except, as I pointed out before, she ALSO claimed that abstaining didn't work, because her parents ate "junk" and she could order a pizza. I think you just wanted to talk about addiction so read it into that, when it doesn't really fit. What it fits is that the OP (who is in college, remember) isn't ready to make a real effort yet.

I push back against the "addiction" assertions because I get the impression that people like to invoke addiction so casually because there's this idea that being an addict means that you can't help it, bear no personal responsibility, and simply cannot change things

And in fact, the evidence suggests that that is exactly the situation we are in. Whatever you want to call it, the fact is, most people can't lose weight long term through behavioral modification. Depending on whose study you look at, the failure rates are like 85% to like 95%.

That's hardly limited to people who claim "addiction" and also doesn't need "addiction" as an explanation. We have a largely sedentary population and an overabundance of food, especially cheap, highly palatable food, and increasingly a population with a lot of bad habits and no learned cultural discipline about food. Traditionally one overindulged only at specific times and largely couldn't afford to anyway. In my grandparents' time, to the extent that wasn't an issue, people did a lot more physical activity (my grandfather on one side was a farmer, the other had a store, all my great grandparents were farmers--they probably ate more calories than me, and more of the demonized carby stuff, like bread and potatoes, but it wasn't an issue). Even between the time I grew up (the '80s, mainly) and now, things have disintegrated. When I was a kid all the packaged stuff and fast food and all that was available, but we had fast food only on occasion, as a special treat or when traveling. We didn't have soda in the house. Desserts were, again, a special treat and had in moderation. We ate dinner together as a family and it consisted of meat, potatoes, and a vegetable (or something similar). Like I said above, my mom hated to cook, so it was reasonably simple and the veggies were normally canned (I mostly discovered I liked them as an adult, but I was required to eat them), so on. I ate the worst in my life as a 20-something, because I'd never learned to cook and relied on convenience stores and, especially, take out and the expensive and highly calorific restaurant food I could charge to my employer when working late, but eventually decided to learn to cook. It amazes me how often people don't, these days. And while my friends seem to have childrearing styles more akin to what I grew up with, it seems like that's no longer the norm, at least not when it comes to meals and basic ideas about eating healthy.

In other words, get off my lawn, kids!

What happened in the last 100 years? Have people changed? Or did something else change?

See above.

Notice the bullet point "Less palatable foods"

I find your idea that contemporary packaged foods are the most palatable the strangest aspect of this whole discussion. Most of that stuff seems really unappealing to me, whereas the traditional indulgences are my indulgences of choice. And again, if that's really the issue, the answer is simple. Don't eat it. Wouldn't actually help me at all, since that's not how I got fat, but if it works for you I'm all for it, for YOU.

Doesn't really help the OP, who is complaining because other people won't abstain and pizza places continue to exist, but apparently this discussion isn't actually about that any more.

In the end, it's all about craving pleasure from food.

I'd say it's about -- for some people -- misusing the pleasurable aspects of food. I had issues with emotional eating, which I'd say is one part of that spectrum (though not triggered by specific foods or leading me into binging), and that was important to get a handle on.

But all foods are not equally pleasurable to consume. Ice cream is going to be far more pleasurable to consume than brussels sprouts. Hawaiian rolls (which are very sweet) are a lot more pleasurable to eat than, say, pumpernickel, which I find very bitter.

I think you are assuming that others share your taste preferences, and ignoring that to a certain extent even those are culturally formed (that I didn't grow up eating lots of packaged stuff probably relates to the fact that I find it invariably less appealing than homemade options). I don't care about bread (other than naan), but find properly cooked Brussels sprouts extremely pleasurable to consume. But sure, on average, many things which happen to be higher in calories also tend to be recognized as extremely palatable by the average person.

Beyond that, I don't actually think addiction is about irresistible pleasure. I think humans like pleasure, so tend to pursue it, and sometimes fail to adequately balance long-term results vs. short-term pleasures. But the people I see as food addicts aren't really eating because they enjoy it anymore. They are eating compulsively for reasons other than either hunger or true enjoyment. To suggest that me gobbling up some movie popcorn (which I'm going to resist doing tonight) is akin to that is, again, I think incorrect. More likely most people don't see the negative effect of a few more bites of popcorn as much of a counter to the positive effects of the taste. That's why it becomes easier to diet when you see the results and start connecting in your mind in a more real way the positive effects of refraining.

Also, is it time?

I am taking a philosophy course about art aesthetics and I read a great 4 pager story by david Hume on the standards of taste-it quite relates to what all is happening with all this arguing over taste- I recommend it to all the readers here:). Personally I agree with sunofabeach…If Im doing pizza its pizza baby- bread is very important and worth arguing..especially when you speak to someone who grew up on her Babcia's bread made at home and kneaded with her hands-for a half n hour…you easily become a bread snob! Especially when it comes out fresh from the oven and sliced just for you with a pat of butter oozing over the pillowy cloud of home goodness..every week fresh home made bread WORD :bigsmile:

Yes, but would you tell someone that doesn't like bread all the much or doesn't care much for pizza crust that he/she have no palate? That is an objective fact and then continue to insult accordingly.

This is rather amusing. We have a debate over taste, you name call and name drop, and them claim victim status after getting called out? Rich. Very rich.

I'm not claiming victim status, but merely pointed out your bad behavior and illogical associations. Pointing out bad behavior doesn't make someone a victim, FYI.

Rather than focusing on what I shouldn't eat, I've been more successful focusing on what I should eat.

My approach (page one) is similar.

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Can't believe this is still going when op deactivated after one post

Checked, and yep; deactivated. Thanks! :drinker:

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Man, this thread sure does have a lot of feels. It's like I'm at a WW meeting.

What are "feels", and have you ever been to a WW meeting?

Oh those feels.

Lots of feels

I really didn't think this was going to roll.

Shows what I know.

I've only heard "feel" as a noun as in like "cop a feel". There's not a lot of that at WW. Or feelings, either, if that's what you meant.

One of my favorite nouns

I've only heard "feel" as a noun as in like "cop a feel". There's not a lot of that at WW. Or feelings, either, if that's what you meant.

One of my favorite nouns

In that case I prefer MFP. Free and frisky!