GMOs, arsenic, toxins
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I live right by Michigan State University which does a TON of crop research. Fear of GMO's and stuff has been going on for so long, I think it's just gone viral online. When my fiancée's mom was in college, people set fire to the plant research building (which tests different types of genetic modification). The professor then said it best: "The people who are protesting this have obviously never gone hungry."
Heck, the original corn doesn't even closely resemble the corn we eat off the cob. It's been genetically modified since long before it was called that!0 -
We feed our kids a lot of organic food - it is great that we all have been eating gmo's / pesticides / hormones, etc., for years and haven't died yet; but that isn't really a compelling reason to feed them these things. Given that, I think it is fine that other people don't feed their kids organic food, it doesn't mean they are bad parents, they just have a different philosophy about their value (usually based mostly on economics).
Which organic foods aren't GMO's? I'd be careful answering with any fruits or vegetables.0 -
But what does "organic" mean?
It just means they cannot use synthetic pesticides (I believe fertilizer also, would have to check) and no GMO's for produce.
I still prefer growing my own also, because I use NO pesticide, fertilizer or chemical of any kind on my garden, which cannot be said about organic produce from the store.
How do you keep the bugs from eating all your plants? Bugs eat EVERYTHING here.
ETA: This is an honest question as I've wanted to set up a little garden just to see if I can get anything to grow in our horrendous soil in our yard.0 -
I live right by Michigan State University which does a TON of crop research. Fear of GMO's and stuff has been going on for so long, I think it's just gone viral online. When my fiancée's mom was in college, people set fire to the plant research building (which tests different types of genetic modification). The professor then said it best: "The people who are protesting this have obviously never gone hungry."
Heck, the original corn doesn't even closely resemble the corn we eat off the cob. It's been genetically modified since long before it was called that!
That is the most true statement I have ever heard about GMO's.
People do not realize that fruits and vegetables are genetically modified through hybridization. This strengthens crops against parasites and diseases.0 -
You know... you're just not worth this much effort. Go on believing propaganda.
Thanks! You've finally realized no one is going to change anyone's mind in this, or any thread for that matter. You go on doing the same.
I started to talk about HFCS, but decided not to bother digging.
Here's the thing though, high fructose corn syrup has a portion of its glucose converted to fructose by way of an enzyme. You want me to believe that the micronutrients of corn are, somehow, completely removed in this process. Where do they go?
Fair enough. I'm no chemist, nor an expert on how HFCS is created from corn. But, unless you can somehow discount this information as propagonda...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5600/2
At the end of the day, I just choose not to feed my family any extra chemicals, artificial ingredients, processed foods, GMOs etc. whether there is scientific evidence that says their harmful or not. I just don't see how it can be good, and there is not and never will be evidence to validate the safety of consuming something in small quantities over an entire lifetime.What evidence is there that organic food won't kill you?
There is uncertainty in everything in life. EVERYTHING!
I'm pretty sure that if eating an apple with pesticide will not kill you, then eating an apple without pesticide won't kill you either o.O but I see your point. We really don't know anything for certain.
One thing I do know, is that if I drank a bottle of Roundup, I'd probably die, or at least be in the hospital. The same probably goes for most pesticides. Just because we ingest them at trace amounts, so we don't notice an immediate effect, doesn't mean that after decades of continuous ingestion it's not taking a toll on our bodies.
It's like saying, yes we know arsenic can kill you. But if you eat these muffins, they barely have enough arsenic to have an effect on you, so you won't notice. I still wouldn't eat those muffins.0 -
You know... you're just not worth this much effort. Go on believing propaganda.
Thanks! You've finally realized no one is going to change anyone's mind in this, or any thread for that matter. You go on doing the same.
I started to talk about HFCS, but decided not to bother digging.
Here's the thing though, high fructose corn syrup has a portion of its glucose converted to fructose by way of an enzyme. You want me to believe that the micronutrients of corn are, somehow, completely removed in this process. Where do they go?
Fair enough. I'm no chemist, nor an expert on how HFCS is created from corn. But, unless you can somehow discount this information as propagonda...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5600/2
At the end of the day, I just choose not to feed my family any extra chemicals, artificial ingredients, processed foods, GMOs etc. whether there is scientific evidence that says their harmful or not. I just don't see how it can be good, and there is not and never will be evidence to validate the safety of consuming something in small quantities over an entire lifetime.What evidence is there that organic food won't kill you?
There is uncertainty in everything in life. EVERYTHING!
I'm pretty sure that if eating an apple with pesticide will not kill you, then eating an apple without pesticide won't kill you either o.O but I see your point. We really don't know anything for certain.
One thing I do know, is that if I drank a bottle of Roundup, I'd probably die, or at least be in the hospital. The same probably goes for most pesticides. Just because we ingest them at trace amounts, so we don't notice an immediate effect, doesn't mean that after decades of continuous ingestion it's not taking a toll on our bodies.
It's like saying, yes we know arsenic can kill you. But if you eat these muffins, they barely have enough arsenic to have an effect on you, so you won't notice. I still wouldn't eat those muffins.
Apples contain arsenic naturally. You would be consuming trace amounts either way.
Also, I want to point at that the nutrition panel you linked to does not specify all the micronutrients that I previously highlighted for you.0 -
No one is really asking you to change your mind. And if organics are what you feel is appropriate for you and your family... no one really cares.
All we are asking is that you look a little deeper into the arguments against GMO's and HFCS, and ask yourself if they are really valid. Could there be something that your sources are leaving out?
Actually, the best way to look objectively at something is to question both sides of the argument.0 -
I live right by Michigan State University which does a TON of crop research. Fear of GMO's and stuff has been going on for so long, I think it's just gone viral online. When my fiancée's mom was in college, people set fire to the plant research building (which tests different types of genetic modification). The professor then said it best: "The people who are protesting this have obviously never gone hungry."
Heck, the original corn doesn't even closely resemble the corn we eat off the cob. It's been genetically modified since long before it was called that!
That is the most true statement I have ever heard about GMO's.
People do not realize that fruits and vegetables are genetically modified through hybridization. This strengthens crops against parasites and diseases.
Exactly. This was back in the early- to mid-70's I believe. Craziness.0 -
You know... you're just not worth this much effort. Go on believing propaganda.
Thanks! You've finally realized no one is going to change anyone's mind in this, or any thread for that matter. You go on doing the same.
I started to talk about HFCS, but decided not to bother digging.
Here's the thing though, high fructose corn syrup has a portion of its glucose converted to fructose by way of an enzyme. You want me to believe that the micronutrients of corn are, somehow, completely removed in this process. Where do they go?
Fair enough. I'm no chemist, nor an expert on how HFCS is created from corn. But, unless you can somehow discount this information as propagonda...
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5600/2
At the end of the day, I just choose not to feed my family any extra chemicals, artificial ingredients, processed foods, GMOs etc. whether there is scientific evidence that says their harmful or not. I just don't see how it can be good, and there is not and never will be evidence to validate the safety of consuming something in small quantities over an entire lifetime.What evidence is there that organic food won't kill you?
There is uncertainty in everything in life. EVERYTHING!
I'm pretty sure that if eating an apple with pesticide will not kill you, then eating an apple without pesticide won't kill you either o.O but I see your point. We really don't know anything for certain.
One thing I do know, is that if I drank a bottle of Roundup, I'd probably die, or at least be in the hospital. The same probably goes for most pesticides. Just because we ingest them at trace amounts, so we don't notice an immediate effect, doesn't mean that after decades of continuous ingestion it's not taking a toll on our bodies.
It's like saying, yes we know arsenic can kill you. But if you eat these muffins, they barely have enough arsenic to have an effect on you, so you won't notice. I still wouldn't eat those muffins.
Apples contain arsenic naturally. You would be consuming trace amounts either way.
Also, I want to point at that the nutrition panel you linked to does not specify all the micronutrients that I previously highlighted for you.
And formaldehyde. Which, coincidentally, is also found in most vaccines.0 -
I live right by Michigan State University which does a TON of crop research. Fear of GMO's and stuff has been going on for so long, I think it's just gone viral online. When my fiancée's mom was in college, people set fire to the plant research building (which tests different types of genetic modification). The professor then said it best: "The people who are protesting this have obviously never gone hungry."
Heck, the original corn doesn't even closely resemble the corn we eat off the cob. It's been genetically modified since long before it was called that!
That is the most true statement I have ever heard about GMO's.
People do not realize that fruits and vegetables are genetically modified through hybridization. This strengthens crops against parasites and diseases.
Exactly. This was back in the early- to mid-70's I believe. Craziness.
IKR! GMO's are no different than show dogs who have been bred to have specific traits.0 -
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Also, I want to point at that the nutrition panel you linked to does not specify all the micronutrients that I previously highlighted for you.
Sorry, which nutrients are missing? I thought it listed them all, I noticed you had iron, magnesium , potassium and vitamin B6, all of which are included in the panels below and nonexistant in the syrup.Apples contain arsenic naturally. You would be consuming trace amounts either way.
Okay, arsenic was a bad example, it is naturally occurring in everything, including water. So yes, we all get trace amounts of that. Just no need to add more unnecessary, synthetic chemicals to our lifetime of slowly being poisoned, which nowadays is probably inevitable.No one is really asking you to change your mind. And if organics are what you feel is appropriate for you and your family... no one really cares.
All we are asking is that you look a little deeper into the arguments against GMO's and HFCS, and ask yourself if they are really valid. Could there be something that your sources are leaving out?
Actually, the best way to look objectively at something is to question both sides of the argument.
I totally agree, and I am not trying to change anyone's mind either. I'm just sharing my point of view, but if questioned I will try my best to explain my reasoning, that is all. I am always interested in hearing other's point of view, and especially appreciate non biased info being posted like you did earlier in the thread.
Don't take it the wrong way that I am closed minded about this. A few years ago I actually had the exact opposite opinion that I do now, it's only through my personal experiences with my health that I've been lead to my current conclusions.
There are plenty of very good points against my beliefs, as well as for them. I will do my best to look at it from all angles.0 -
Also, I want to point at that the nutrition panel you linked to does not specify all the micronutrients that I previously highlighted for you.
Which nutrients are missing? I noticed you had iron, magnesium and vitamin B6, all of which are included in the panels below and nonexistant in the syrup.
Potassium and magnesium. Very important electrolytes that have been neglected in the past, but the FDA is working on changing that.0 -
Is there really any difference in synthetic chemicals versus naturally occuring ones? I mean, if formaldehyde is created in a lab versus created in nature, at the most basic molecular level, isn't it the same?0
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Also, I want to point at that the nutrition panel you linked to does not specify all the micronutrients that I previously highlighted for you.
Which nutrients are missing? I noticed you had iron, magnesium and vitamin B6, all of which are included in the panels below and nonexistant in the syrup.
Potassium and magnesium. Very important electrolytes that have been neglected in the past, but the FDA is working on changing that.
If you scroll down the page it actually does list all those, sorry for the confusion. I find that site to be a fairly good resource.0 -
Just so I don't feel like a fraud.
I stand corrected. The good stuff does get removed from HFCS.0 -
Is there really any difference in synthetic chemicals versus naturally occuring ones? I mean, if formaldehyde is created in a lab versus created in nature, at the most basic molecular level, isn't it the same?
Probably no difference. Except that, our bodies have probably evolved to live with most chemicals in nature, since they have been around as long as we have... so we have a pretty good idea what they'll do to us. When a new chemical is created in a lab, it's completely foreign and there's no way of knowing what effects it will have on the body, if any.
Again, it's more of a better safe than sorry way of thinking.0 -
But what does "organic" mean?
It just means they cannot use synthetic pesticides (I believe fertilizer also, would have to check) and no GMO's for produce.
I still prefer growing my own also, because I use NO pesticide, fertilizer or chemical of any kind on my garden, which cannot be said about organic produce from the store.
How do you keep the bugs from eating all your plants? Bugs eat EVERYTHING here.
ETA: This is an honest question as I've wanted to set up a little garden just to see if I can get anything to grow in our horrendous soil in our yard.
Look up integrated pest management plans. There are some nurseries in my state that go with this in order to avoid all pesticides, even those that are okay to use for certified organic producers. In my opinion though, it's far from the best option.
If you are wanting to go as natural as possible, I'd suggest raised planter boxes that aren't in direct contact with soil, and using a planting medium like pine bark mulch or compost. Pyrethrin is the most common organic pesticide, but there are synthetics based off it that are pretty good. Bifenthrin is pretty good at killing all bugs while still being safe to apply around dogs, cats, and other critters.0 -
Is there really any difference in synthetic chemicals versus naturally occuring ones? I mean, if formaldehyde is created in a lab versus created in nature, at the most basic molecular level, isn't it the same?
Probably no difference. Except that, our bodies have probably evolved to live with most chemicals in nature, since they have been around as long as we have... so we have a pretty good idea what they'll do to us. When a new chemical is created in a lab, it's completely foreign and there's no way of knowing what effects it will have on the body, if any.
Again, it's more of a better safe than sorry way of thinking.
A little scared to make another point and be wrong here, but...
Aren't lab-created chemicals typically derivitives of naturally occuring substances?0 -
Is there really any difference in synthetic chemicals versus naturally occuring ones? I mean, if formaldehyde is created in a lab versus created in nature, at the most basic molecular level, isn't it the same?
Probably no difference. Except that, our bodies have probably evolved to live with most chemicals in nature, since they have been around as long as we have... so we have a pretty good idea what they'll do to us. When a new chemical is created in a lab, it's completely foreign and there's no way of knowing what effects it will have on the body, if any.
Again, it's more of a better safe than sorry way of thinking.
So do you not eat any fruits and vegetables?0 -
Is there really any difference in synthetic chemicals versus naturally occuring ones? I mean, if formaldehyde is created in a lab versus created in nature, at the most basic molecular level, isn't it the same?
Probably no difference. Except that, our bodies have probably evolved to live with most chemicals in nature, since they have been around as long as we have... so we have a pretty good idea what they'll do to us. When a new chemical is created in a lab, it's completely foreign and there's no way of knowing what effects it will have on the body, if any.
Again, it's more of a better safe than sorry way of thinking.
A little scared to make another point and be wrong here, but...
Aren't lab-created chemicals typically derivitives of naturally occuring substances?
Typically, yes.
In terms of pesticides, scientists generally looks at what plants work best in terms of fending off critters the natural way, wether it be by taste, smell, or some other measure. It's a good starting point, if you think about it.0 -
Is there really any difference in synthetic chemicals versus naturally occuring ones? I mean, if formaldehyde is created in a lab versus created in nature, at the most basic molecular level, isn't it the same?
Probably no difference. Except that, our bodies have probably evolved to live with most chemicals in nature, since they have been around as long as we have... so we have a pretty good idea what they'll do to us. When a new chemical is created in a lab, it's completely foreign and there's no way of knowing what effects it will have on the body, if any.
Again, it's more of a better safe than sorry way of thinking.
So do you not eat any fruits and vegetables?
Of course I do, and the best varieties we have available right now are the organic ones. I grow what I can.0 -
Is there really any difference in synthetic chemicals versus naturally occuring ones? I mean, if formaldehyde is created in a lab versus created in nature, at the most basic molecular level, isn't it the same?
Probably no difference. Except that, our bodies have probably evolved to live with most chemicals in nature, since they have been around as long as we have... so we have a pretty good idea what they'll do to us. When a new chemical is created in a lab, it's completely foreign and there's no way of knowing what effects it will have on the body, if any.
Again, it's more of a better safe than sorry way of thinking.
A little scared to make another point and be wrong here, but...
Aren't lab-created chemicals typically derivitives of naturally occuring substances?
Typically, yes.
In terms of pesticides, scientists generally looks at what plants work best in terms of fending off critters the natural way, wether it be by taste, smell, or some other measure. It's a good starting point, if you think about it.
Sure it is but then why are all the pesticides that are on the market toxic? Why is there a "Notice to Pesticide Buyers" (or whatever it says) at the register of places like home depot, Lowes, Agway, or any place that sells the stuff? If they generally look at what plants work best then why aren't the pesticides all natural? And I am not talking about what is used on "organic" produce (and I use that term loosely).0 -
But what does "organic" mean?
It just means they cannot use synthetic pesticides (I believe fertilizer also, would have to check) and no GMO's for produce.
I still prefer growing my own also, because I use NO pesticide, fertilizer or chemical of any kind on my garden, which cannot be said about organic produce from the store.
How do you keep the bugs from eating all your plants? Bugs eat EVERYTHING here.
ETA: This is an honest question as I've wanted to set up a little garden just to see if I can get anything to grow in our horrendous soil in our yard.
We have a garden this year and honestly the only real pest we had was a baby bunny who was able to slip through the fence and eat the bottoms of our low hanging tomatoes:grumble: . Sure some of the leaves on our plants are chewed by something (I have seen Japanese beetles and some other unknown bug) but that's it. Our harvest has been phenomenal and we haven't used anything.
And if you have horrendous soil chances are good you won't grow anything. Before we seriously cultivated our garden we didn't have very good produce the past couple of times we had one. This year though we consulted Crazy Tomato Guy and we used a ton of manure, mixed it in the good topsoil that we have and spread it. Then used more manure along with garden tone and alfalfa pellets when we planted our plants and let me tell you you KNOW when the stuff hits the *kitten*!!0 -
Also, we've been modifying food for THOUSANDS of years
True, but not nearly to the extent that we have in the last fifty. Never before recent history have we modified plant dna so that it can withstand poisonous chemicals so we can spray the crap all over them and then ingest it ourselves. Also now making plants that produce their own toxins to ward off pests, can't wash off a toxin that's in the plant, but anyway...Not everyone can afford organic.
Is gardening an option for you? Even with just a 3-4 month growing season here, we get tons of vegetables from the garden for next to nothing, and it's the only way to control what's put into them. Definitely makes up for having to spend a little extra buying produce in the winter months. Just a suggestion.
I wish extensive gardening were an option for me. It's not at the moment, but if I ever get settled somewhere, I'm going to grow whatever I can grow. Meanwhile, I should try spices in window boxes this Spring. Poor things will probably die under my care, but I can try.0 -
Also, we've been modifying food for THOUSANDS of years
True, but not nearly to the extent that we have in the last fifty. Never before recent history have we modified plant dna so that it can withstand poisonous chemicals so we can spray the crap all over them and then ingest it ourselves. Also now making plants that produce their own toxins to ward off pests, can't wash off a toxin that's in the plant, but anyway...
True, but welcome to evolution. we have advanced and evolved to be able to do it a greater rate now than ever before.
Oh dear, no. Just because some people survive to breed doesn't mean change is always a good thing! Not for those who don't survive. Now when we get a good handle on genetics, if we can manage to put and keep people in those fields who will refuse to do anything but good with their power (heh yeah that's likely!) we might get ahead of the curve, but meanwhile, I don't want to be a statistic for some anthropologist a thousand years from now!0
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