Pay to Use MFP? What?
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Yes, that is YOU, the CONSUMER who is paying the extra money for a faster connection. Not the provider of the information.
It was a BUISNESS account. You needed an FEIN to apply for it. They charged me more for a faster speed. So i'm not sure why charging buisnesses more money for faster access is supposedly a new thing.
The ISP are not providing a service to the websites. They're providing a service to you, the consumer.
If it has to do with connection speeds, it has everything to do with an ISP0 -
i support net neutrality. i haven't watched the john oliver video yet, but from reading this thread, it sounds like it would be a pretty horrible thing if said bill is passed. i hope the reality of it actually happening is far from the truth.0
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thank youi read an article a few years ago saying that eventually cable ISP will have data limits just like cell phone providers for the reasons mentioned in my post above.
if/when that happens your all going to want to cry in your cornflakes
Ummm.... they already do. Most providers here cap it at 60BG/month. I have a limit of 300GB/month.
well when they put a cap on it that the average person will typically hit, then start creating tears, its going to bite a lot worse.
when i signed up for a verizon buisness account, i had the option of paying 15 bucks more a month for a faster connection.
if there is an issue here, your post didn't describe it very well
Yes, that is YOU, the CONSUMER who is paying the extra money for a faster connection. Not the provider of the information.
We're not talking about a comparison between 15Mbps and 25Mbps. We're talking about sites lie MFP taking a minute or longer to load. We're talking about so slow, no regular person will browse it any longer because it will be too slow.
The ISP are not providing a service to the websites. They're providing a service to you, the consumer.
Basically they're talking about bringing the internet back down to dialup speeds from broadband deliberately in order to get an excuse to create a bigger profit margin. And if you want faster access, then it's up to the person hosting the site--whether it's MFP, Amazon, whatever, to pay a fee to YOUR internet provider (not theirs) so that YOU can access their site at the speeds your hardware is actually capable of again. These site hosts will have to find a way to squeeze more money out of you (free sites will no longer be free, sites that charge will have to charge even more, etc) in order to serve you. If you don't want to pay a membership fee, then you will be relegated to transfer speeds that will take it back to old dialup days.
smart companies will find someother way of raising thier revenue.
that does sound like double charging.
still suprised it takes an act of congress for them to do that though0 -
John Oliver is fun as h*ll lol but nothing in the two tier internet means free web sites like FB & MFP will ever charge. They may charge a higher rate to the companies who pay to show adds but they will never charge us. Besides technology changes every hour the Internet may end up being free someday. Why do you think Telecommunication companies went belly up 13 years ago? Technology caught up with their ducT laying arses.0
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It's not about capitalism or monopoly, or even money. It's about the fact that everything will no longer be teated equally. If it goes through, only those with money will be reached at decent speeds.
thats inevitable regardless of this particular issue. Its going to take some drastically new technology or a huge revamp of the infastructure to avoid that0 -
Besides technology changes every hour the Internet may end up being free someday. Why do you think Telecommunication companies went belly up 13 years ago? Technology caught up with their duck laying arses.
agreed,
but if your a conspiracy theorist, money/government has been holding back technological innovations in order so that the haves can continue to have more for quite some time0 -
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The problem is folks, that data demands are growing. Upgrading the infrastructure costs money. Lots of it. The question is, who pays for it. In a typical scenario, it is those that benefit from it. The complexity here is that the large corporations are trying to grab and control information. This isn't really about infrastructure, but more about control. Comcast will pay for it, IF they can have control of it. Otherwise, we pay for it in various ways. This is not going to go away.
Telecommunication companies went belly up because they felt that the monopoly they held gave them free reign to charge unreasonably prices for what were originally considered luxuries, but had become necessities because of how the world had changes. It wasn't very long before the internet provided people with free or cheap alternatives, which ended up burying the telecomm companies.
We're going to see the same scenario repeat itself with the internet. ISPs are monopolies in many areas, with people only having a single broadband provider (usually comcast) serving their area. This, combined with the fact that the laws that govern how they can conduct business still regard them as luxury items, gives them free reign to charge prices that may or may not be reasonable and may even put internet out of access of the few. The issue here is that, just like with the telecomm companies, it isn't a luxury item anymore. Internet access is becoming a necessity, with many places forcing you to fill out job applications over the internet, pay your bills over the internet, etc... I know that UPMC and Giant Eagle, two of the biggest employers in the Pittsburgh region, only accept job applications filled out on their website.0 -
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I'm guessing if you are on a store's website there is a good chance you are going to buy something and an unlikely chance you will want to if they make you pay to enter the site so they will eat the cost and/or pay for it through advertising on their website.0
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The problem is folks, that data demands are growing. Upgrading the infrastructure costs money. Lots of it. The question is, who pays for it. In a typical scenario, it is those that benefit from it. The complexity here is that the large corporations are trying to grab and control information. This isn't really about infrastructure, but more about control. Comcast will pay for it, IF they can have control of it. Otherwise, we pay for it in various ways. This is not going to go away.
control or no control, there's not that much benefit in it for them to pay to update it when they can just make up whatever charging scheme they want in order to increase profits and still provide some acceptable connection speeds.
as another poster said, its probably going to take some truely inovative technology to get us off this path. Or (i hate to say it) the government would have to step in and take control. People tell me that in countries with faster internet speeds the governments have more influence on the infastructure. I assume its probably true lol0 -
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The problem is folks, that data demands are growing. Upgrading the infrastructure costs money. Lots of it. The question is, who pays for it. In a typical scenario, it is those that benefit from it. The complexity here is that the large corporations are trying to grab and control information. This isn't really about infrastructure, but more about control. Comcast will pay for it, IF they can have control of it. Otherwise, we pay for it in various ways. This is not going to go away.
control or no control, there's not that much benefit in it for them to pay to update it when they can just make up whatever charging scheme they want in order to increase profits and still provide some acceptable connection speeds.
as another poster said, its probably going to take some truely inovative technology to get us off this path. Or (i hate to say it) the government would have to step in and take control. People tell me that in countries with faster internet speeds the governments have more influence on the infastructure. I assume its probably true lol
It's not about connection speeds. It's about the amount of data running through is growing exponentially. It needs to be updated. We're also running out of IP's, but that's being addressed.
lol as if connection speeds and through put were not related0 -
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the cynic in me absolutely agrees with you.I think it's adorable that we all act like we have any say on what happens.
Large companies will figure out what will best serve their bottom line, and they'll persuade the Senators and Congressmen they pay off to vote the way they want them to.
Nobody in power gives a crap if consumers get screwed. 20,000 names on a petitions means nothing compared to a $20 million dollar campaign contribution.0 -
The problem is folks, that data demands are growing. Upgrading the infrastructure costs money. Lots of it. The question is, who pays for it. In a typical scenario, it is those that benefit from it. The complexity here is that the large corporations are trying to grab and control information. This isn't really about infrastructure, but more about control. Comcast will pay for it, IF they can have control of it. Otherwise, we pay for it in various ways. This is not going to go away.
Telecommunication companies went belly up because they felt that the monopoly they held gave them free reign to charge unreasonably prices for what were originally considered luxuries, but had become necessities because of how the world had changes. It wasn't very long before the internet provided people with free or cheap alternatives, which ended up burying the telecomm companies.
We're going to see the same scenario repeat itself with the internet. ISPs are monopolies in many areas, with people only having a single broadband provider (usually comcast) serving their area. This, combined with the fact that the laws that govern how they can conduct business still regard them as luxury items, gives them free reign to charge prices that may or may not be reasonable and may even put internet out of access of the few. The issue here is that, just like with the telecomm companies, it isn't a luxury item anymore. Internet access is becoming a necessity, with many places forcing you to fill out job applications over the internet, pay your bills over the internet, etc... I know that UPMC and Giant Eagle, two of the biggest employers in the Pittsburgh region, only accept job applications filled out on their website.
True. It is a utility now. Its bocoming moreso, with future cars now reporting to dealerships that maintenance is due, or there is a problem, then the car also tells you where the nearest dealer is to get your car checked. this is happening in the background without you being aware your car is on the internet.
So, the question still remains, who is the beneficiary? Is it the consumer? Is it the businesses? Is it Comcast? Who ever is the true beneficiary should pay the bill. I guess it depends how it shakes out. It benefits everyone, and just like with other utilities, the government is going to have to step in and control pricing.
The benefactors are ISPs such as Comcast and the Washington folks they have in their pockets who will actually approve of this nonsense.0 -
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the cynic in me absolutely agrees with you.I think it's adorable that we all act like we have any say on what happens.
Large companies will figure out what will best serve their bottom line, and they'll persuade the Senators and Congressmen they pay off to vote the way they want them to.
Nobody in power gives a crap if consumers get screwed. 20,000 names on a petitions means nothing compared to a $20 million dollar campaign contribution.
Normally I'm not quite as cynical, but in something like this it's just the truth.
The part that makes me shake my head is that some people completely support a system like this. Because they think the free market can solve anything. As we can see, clearly that's not the answer.
I'd have to agree. It doesn't help that the man who oversees this sort of thing was actually a CEO of a cable company, or something.
Also, Comcast is the second largest um, donater(?) of money to the federal government. Whatever they want, they get. *sigh*
I do have to agree with the people who believe this "free market" is a good thing. I suppose they prefer a free market over free speech and equality.0 -
AWESOME POST!
Some pertinents and helpfuls:
http://www.savetheinternet.com/net-neutrality-what-you-need-know-now
http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/tell-the-fcc-net-neutrality-is-still-crucial-to-free-software
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/09/reddit-pornhub-websites-slow-down-net-neutrality-september-10
https://www.dearfcc.org/
https://www.fcc.gov/document/protecting-and-promoting-open-internet-nprm0 -
so everything should be free?
Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.
right, its called throttling, happens with your phone service too. to me its a fair charge, but then again im a free market capitalist.
So you're ok with free speech being desroyed? That's ultimately what will happen.
Even if some people have to pay, and the way the internet works changes dramatically... At worst, it will suck... but that in itself cannot destroy free speech.
It's not ultimately what will happen. There was free speech before the internet, there will be free speech after. The mechanism with which people get their voices heard may change through the years, but the core remains.
To say that having to pay for internet will ultimately destroy free speech is kind of ridiculous, IMO.0 -
The problem is folks, that data demands are growing. Upgrading the infrastructure costs money. Lots of it. The question is, who pays for it. In a typical scenario, it is those that benefit from it. The complexity here is that the large corporations are trying to grab and control information. This isn't really about infrastructure, but more about control. Comcast will pay for it, IF they can have control of it. Otherwise, we pay for it in various ways. This is not going to go away.
control or no control, there's not that much benefit in it for them to pay to update it when they can just make up whatever charging scheme they want in order to increase profits and still provide some acceptable connection speeds.
as another poster said, its probably going to take some truely inovative technology to get us off this path. Or (i hate to say it) the government would have to step in and take control. People tell me that in countries with faster internet speeds the governments have more influence on the infastructure. I assume its probably true lol
It's not about connection speeds. It's about the amount of data running through is growing exponentially. It needs to be updated. We're also running out of IP's, but that's being addressed.
lol as if connection speeds and through put were not related
LOL. They aren't. How long have you worked in IT. They are separate things completely unrelated.
So, according to you, the fact that my downloading a movie slows down my netflix streaming, has nothing to do with the fact i'm trying to push more information through the same amount of band width?0 -
so everything should be free?
Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.
right, its called throttling, happens with your phone service too. to me its a fair charge, but then again im a free market capitalist.
So you're ok with free speech being desroyed? That's ultimately what will happen.
Me thinks you dont understand how free speech works.
Where in the Bill of Rights does it say, Life, Liberty and Low cost internet?0 -
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It's already over. Big business and their teet suckers have won. If you don't like it, go borrow 17 gazillion dollars and start your own phone and/or cable company.0
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so everything should be free?
Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.
right, its called throttling, happens with your phone service too. to me its a fair charge, but then again im a free market capitalist.
...advocating oligopolistic practices. That's not free market capitalism my friend.0 -
so everything should be free?
Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.
Great explanation. I already pay for the internet and I pay for Netflix. And if it weren't for things like Netflix and all of the free sites I use, MFP, Instagram, Pinterest etc., I wouldn't pay for the internet. They already have a symbiotic relationship.0 -
The problem is folks, that data demands are growing. Upgrading the infrastructure costs money. Lots of it. The question is, who pays for it. In a typical scenario, it is those that benefit from it. The complexity here is that the large corporations are trying to grab and control information. This isn't really about infrastructure, but more about control. Comcast will pay for it, IF they can have control of it. Otherwise, we pay for it in various ways. This is not going to go away.
where is FDR when you need him?0 -
so everything should be free?
Kinda went over your head there bud. How much do you pay already for your internet service? We are already paying for the internet, it is not free. They want to charge tech companies like MFP and therefore MFP would have no choice but pass that bill along to the users in the form of membership fees.
right, its called throttling, happens with your phone service too. to me its a fair charge, but then again im a free market capitalist.
So you're ok with free speech being desroyed? That's ultimately what will happen.
Free speech was around long before the internet.0 -
People aren't grasping the full scope of what the net neutrality issue covers. Imagine that you want to start a business. You have this amazing idea/product/service and you want to promote it on the web. Suddenly, you can't because a larger company that sells a competing idea/product/service has paid the ISP (who has a limited amount of throughput and bandwidth) for the largest chunk. Given that the smaller amount available is divided between all other customers in an area, suddenly, your target customers have a harder time getting to your business' website because the lines are choked off. The larger competitor however, has no trouble at all. It's not merely about paying for the Internet. We all pay for the Internet (unless we steal it...tricksy Hobbitses). It's about the ability of corporations and governments to essentially cut out access to information for all but the richest.
It's like if WalMart didn't merely move into an area, and subsequently, smaller stores shut down (victims of fair market capitalism, which I'm fine with for the most part), but they also paid the government* to either not allow or to make it more difficult (by restricting resource access) for any competing business to open up at all.
ETA: *or major resource management0
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