The 4-Hour Body / Slow-Carb Diet

Mcferg, I haven't been doing PAGG, but I have been doing Psyllium husk tablets and a probiotic a couple times a day, just before a meal. I understand the psyllium acts as a catalyst to coagulate with fat entering the body and moves it through. I think it helps, and I'm afraid to try PAGG, because I don't sleep well as it is, and I imagine this may make it worse. Did you buy the PAGG separately or at one of those newly created stores that have come into existence since the book's release?? I am interested to know about how you feel on it.

I bought the PAGG from one of the stores (http://paggstack.com). FWIW, it has no ill-effects on my ability to get to sleep or stay asleep. I believe the green tea extract it contains is decaffeinated. Hard to say if it's working or not, particularly as I haven't been that consistent with its use. I'm going to start setting alarms on my phone.

My weight loss has stalled. I finally shed all my cheat day weight on Saturday morning (my cheat day is Sunday), and today, my weight is the same. I cannot complain too much, though, as my waist is a full 1/2 inch smaller than the first measurement 2 weeks ago. So, in the last 2 weeks, I only lost 1/2 lb, but lost 1/2 inch off my waist. Interesting.

Also of interest is that over the last 2 weeks, I've definitely relied more on protein supplements (shakes, bars) than I have before. They are all low sugar / low carb, but they do contain sucralose - something Ferris warns against.

OK so I am down 5.5 lbs and today is my FIRST Cheat day... I am very nervous! I actually do not want to cheat! But I know its for the better if I do. So other than the citrus drink and the exercises before the bad meals is there anything you guys would recommend after doing this for a while? I do not plan on going over the top but since it is Valentines day I will probably be having chocolate and other candies... Oh and I plan on having sushi for dinner

Hi everyone! Feeling not much better this morning, the cold has settled nicely into my chest and I'm hacking up a lung all day long now. It's giving my abs quite the workout.... I was off plan all weekend because I just didn't have the energy to make myself food, and DH is a disaster in the kitchen. I was down 1.2lbs on Saturday morning from last week!!! Love that!!! And I had pizza Friday night. This weekend was a disaster, but I'm only up 2 lbs, so that should come back off in no time. As long as I keep up some energy to make dinner.

circadianswing, I've been taking the PAGG and don't notice any garlic scent. I don't take the green tea before bed and haven't noticed anything different with my sleep patterns.

mcferg, have you thought of jumping over to the "last mile" program? Maybe try it for a week or two to shake things up a bit?

Upon reviewing "The Last Mile", I've determined I'm just not ready for that. Eating basically 8 oz of protein every 3 hours seems like a lot of work and discipline. Maybe I'll get to the point where I feel differently, but I just don't see myself being "so close" that I could sustain that long enough to get to where he considers to be "the goal" (< 10% bodyfat).

Also, if you go by the last mile being for the last 5-10 lbs - I'm not there yet, anyway. My pre-cheat day weight was 183.5. My estimated bodyfat is 21.8%. That's 40lbs of fat. At 10% bodyfat the weight of my bodyfat would be at most 18 lbs (that would mean I would turn ALL of the difference in fat into muscle without losing any actual weight, which seems unlikely). Anyway, what this all means to me is that I have about 22 lbs of fat to lose, one way or the other. Which means, I have to lose 12 lbs of fat before I should really consider the "last mile".

That said, I'm still considering it for a day or two, just to see if it stimulates anything, but that's at least a week or 2 off...things are so hectic around my house the next couple of weeks that I really don't want to make any changes right now. I'm comfortable and eating healthy, and I know I can keep this up through the craziness.

All of this has me thinking, though...I only have 8.5 lbs to goal, but I'm starting to realize that losing 8.5 lbs alone is not going to get me looking how I actually want to look. Even if I lose 8.5 lbs of pure fat, my bodyfat would still be 18%, which isn't horrible, but I'm not sure if that should be the goal. I think that's why I'm starting to focus on other measurements.

OK so I am down 5.5 lbs and today is my FIRST Cheat day... I am very nervous! I actually do not want to cheat! But I know its for the better if I do. So other than the citrus drink and the exercises before the bad meals is there anything you guys would recommend after doing this for a while? I do not plan on going over the top but since it is Valentines day I will probably be having chocolate and other candies... Oh and I plan on having sushi for dinner

congrats Christin09!

for my cheat day i tend to eat the way i normally would before i started the SCD, on a day when i considered it was allowed to eat lots (i.e. i was out with friends, on a trip, celebrating, etc.) so i just go back to pre-4HB menu while very happy...

as to my personal progress, i have only lost a couple lbs on the SCD...but i've gone down 2 belt notches in 2 weeks. i'm all about recomposition, so i don't really care about the weight, as long as i'm looking sexier every day!

sbracken, get well soon! that sucks.

also, to the point of plateauing - i have lost 20 lbs a couple times by eating less/better food, and by walking. the walking is what does it each time. so if i ever plateau, i just walk more. or walk every day, 30-45 minutes. walking is amazing. it is relaxing, and the weight just melts off without you really noticing it...

Nie work, Christin. I've found that the weeks where my cheat day weight gain was under 3 lbs were my best, weightloss-wise. For me, this was, again,not one of those weeks, but I was only 3.5 lbs, so I'm moving in the right direction...

I want to talk for a minute about body fat %...

As I mentioned before, I got a caliper and I measured my body fat (the area an inch off the hip bone), and used the chart which estimated my body fat % at 21.8%. I figured, well, that's only 1 measurement, so I found a method that combines 4 measurements, and got my wife to do it, and the result was 21.5.%. Well, considering I can do the one measurement myself, I think I'll just use that to track progress, but, here's the thing...

The whole caliper thing is based on the fact/assumption that most body fat is subcutaneous body fat (i.e. just under the skin). But here's the thing - I feel like the thickness of the flab that I grab is always the same. Right now, I'm under 185 lbs, but that area doesn't feel much different (when pinching) than when I'm , say 210. Don't get me wrong - I'm definitely smaller around, as evidenced by waist measurements and just observation, but I feel like the fat "stuck to my skin" doesn't really change much. I dunno. We'll see...this is the first time I've attempted to track or even measure it.

So, from bodyfat, to bodybuilding...

I went back and re-read the "Freak to Geek" chapter. I dunno. I'm not buying it. 4 hours of lifting for that result with no steroids? Arnold Schwarzenegger once said that if you can gain 5 lbs of muscle in a *year* without steroids, then you're a human anomaly. Yet, Ferris gains 34 lbs of muscle in 28 days. Sorry, but I'm not buying it. I know he took a bunch of supplements that were maybe not available in Ah-nold's day, but still. FWIW, I'm not looking to bulk up. I actually think the "before" photos in freak-to-geek are more in line with how I would like to look. Also - where'd all the body hair go? That's gotta be good a half a pound or so, right there?

Anyway - I have no intention of practicing that stuff in that chapter. I have ordered a kettlebell, though, and I'm going to start shifting my resistance workouts to some of those recommended in other chapters. I also want to get the half-ball thing so I can do that super..situp... I was doing an ab workout on resistance days, but discontinued it when I had soreness in my tailbone.

I've been using accumeasure calipers for ages now. I don't worry about the % just the mm. MM don't lie IMO.

Re Geek to Freak: I believe there would have been a lot of muscle memory in those cases, it's just not going to happen in the majority of cases. Occrams protocol is just Max OT training which was popularised by Mike Menzter in the 70's or so. Google that if you want. But if you want to get better body composition, I would be looking at starting strength by Mark Rippetoe. IMO Max OT is for those who are passed beginner level (140kg squat, 180kg deadlift and 100kg bench). The other issue with Max OT is that very few beginners know what true failure is. And you generally need a training partner to be able to perform negative reps.

KB's are awesome all rounders though. Just ask my hammies/glutes from the tabata I did with 32kg on Monday :P Ouch!

Thanks Chris - great info. I'm looking forward to the KB. My glutes can use it. I suffer from a complete and total lack of posterior, regardless of my weight (as I get larger, it might be a bit wider, but equally flat). I'm not looking to go all J-Lo up in here, but I wouldn't mind rounding things out a bit.

As I said - I'm not really worried about the bulk side of things, anyway - my whole point was just that I didn't buy it.

I've been using accumeasure calipers for ages now. I don't worry about the % just the mm. MM don't lie IMO.

Re Geek to Freak: I believe there would have been a lot of muscle memory in those cases, it's just not going to happen in the majority of cases. Occrams protocol is just Max OT training which was popularised by Mike Menzter in the 70's or so. Google that if you want. But if you want to get better body composition, I would be looking at starting strength by Mark Rippetoe. IMO Max OT is for those who are passed beginner level (140kg squat, 180kg deadlift and 100kg bench). The other issue with Max OT is that very few beginners know what true failure is. And you generally need a training partner to be able to perform negative reps.

KB's are awesome all rounders though. Just ask my hammies/glutes from the tabata I did with 32kg on Monday :P Ouch!

Thanks Chris - great info. I'm looking forward to the KB. My glutes can use it. I suffer from a complete and total lack of posterior, regardless of my weight (as I get larger, it might be a bit wider, but equally flat). I'm not looking to go all J-Lo up in here, but I wouldn't mind rounding things out a bit.

As I said - I'm not really worried about the bulk side of things, anyway - my whole point was just that I didn't buy it.

KB workouts will be great for your goals then I wouldn't limit it to 2 per week like the book says though. I do either them or steady state elliptical most mornings.

circadianswing: KB's are awesome for Ukranian deadlifts which are the ones while standing on boxes. I have a monster 64kg (130lb) KB I use for the them. KILLER! :P

for the girls on this board, i got the girlie kettlebell, 10 lbs, as i mentioned before.

Hmm. Could I be causing my plateau because I'm doing ~30lbs on my (fake) kettleball? I'm doing the swings 3 times a week, plus the traverse things and the glute lifts, and adding the cat-pukes and situps twice a week. I only go up maybe 1lb after Saturday's reset day and it's gone by Monday. I'm also taking a multi-vitamin pack plus the basic supplements suggested in the book (not PAGG, the other stuff - potassium, fish oil, etc.) I'm not scared of "bulking up" but I'm pretty strong as it is and if I'm just trading fat for muscle straight across, I'd prefer to lose some weight instead, at least right now.

I'm getting to the point of quitting; there's no point in hating my lunches and denying myself fruit if I'm not accomplishing anything at all. This is week 6 for us, and I'm not seeing ANY changes since week 2. Nothing fits differently. No movement on measurements. The improved energy and so on is nice, but with the frustration, it's not worth it.

Ferris said to mention 2 days worth of food when asking for help, so:

Breakfast every day within 30 minutes of waking: 1.5 whole eggs, 1 egg white, a large handful of spinach, 2 strips of lean bacon, ~7oz beans.
Snack: 10oz coffee or black tea black or with 1tbls cream
Lunch every week day: 1/2 c homemade white beans, 1.5c frozen vegetables, 7 oz of canned salmon or 6 oz of canned chicken
Dinner (Sunday): ~7oz fava beans, 2 small chicken breasts rolled with spinach, ~2/3c roasted broccoli, brussels sprouts, and mushrooms
Dinner (Monday): ~7oz black beans, 1 cod portion cooked with fresh lemon juice, large portion of brussels sprouts, 1/2 avocado
Dinner (Tuesday): ~7 oz pinto beans with 1 strip bacon, ~6oz steak, 1/2 artichoke, 1/2 avocado, 2 glasses red wine
8-9 c water daily

That's pretty much the same every week day. Sundays are a little more free form - same breakfast and similar dinner, but maybe a Chipotle lunch or a lunch similar to dinner, or I might miss lunch if I sleep in late.

Hmm. Could I be causing my plateau because I'm doing ~30lbs on my (fake) kettleball? I'm doing the swings 3 times a week, plus the traverse things and the glute lifts, and adding the cat-pukes and situps twice a week. I only go up maybe 1lb after Saturday's reset day and it's gone by Monday. I'm also taking a multi-vitamin pack plus the basic supplements suggested in the book (not PAGG, the other stuff - potassium, fish oil, etc.) I'm not scared of "bulking up" but I'm pretty strong as it is and if I'm just trading fat for muscle straight across, I'd prefer to lose some weight instead, at least right now.

sorry to hear you are frustrated.

have you tried cardio? i used to date a ski-racer fitness trainer who wanted me to have a J-Lo butt. squats sure worked for that, but i bulked up like a tank. i hated the way i looked on high weights, low reps. i shifted to cardio every day of the week but one, and i drop inches consistently. i love the curvy look cardio makes, while i don't so much like the bulk of weights.

today i just finished a weight work-out. i do pretty much the same every week & it keeps off the excess poundage while not making me bulk up...

marchenland: have you been tracking cals as well? If so, what sort of numbers lately? I would add in some steady state fasted cardio in the am. I would be ditching the situps and cat pukes (as I think there are a heap better core exercises like planks, T-pushups etc) How many KB swings do you do and at that weight? I would be adding a full body resistance workout at least twice a week and just do your KB's at the end of that as a metabolic finisher. FOcus on squats, deadlifts, press and rows. Assistance can be things like chin ups, pullups, dips.

Personally, I think the way the book is written that you can just follow the SCD and do SFA exercise and miraculously lose a heap of weight is a bit optimistic (unless you are obese and have a terrible diet already). For the relatively fit people, you really should be incorporating some strength training and cardio to achieve the body recomposition they are after.

"It is also important here to notice that Ferriss isn't saying "NO DAIRY PRODUCTS" PERIOD! He says on page 91, "....but I would avoid most milk products. Cottage cheese is an exception." He uses two key words here: "most" and "an."

"Most" dairy products should be avoided. If he meant all dairy, he would have said "all milk products." Clearly, he does not mean that all milk products are off limits. The use of the article "an" implies that there are more exceptions than he is listing. Cottage cheese is simply "an" exception, not the only exception.
Edited by Sporty98 on Sat 01/08/11 09:15 AM "


Spoken like a lawyer!

Well I suppose you're options are to stick it out and see if weight loss improves, go back to the old way you were eating (if you wish) or change up the exercise you are doing. That choice is really up to you.

I do believe the way the book is written that it makes it sound like a miracle weight loss strategy which depending on current weight/fitness level may or may not be the case.

Hey!!! Haven't popped in for awhile, so I thought I'd drop by for a quick Hi!

I was off plan all weekend, gained 2.5 lbs come monday morning, and today I'm back down to post cheat weight plus another 0.2lbs!!!! Granted this whole cold I've had has kept my appetite down and I'm drinking water like a fish, but I was still shocked to step on the scale to see it read lower today than it did on Saturday!

HItting the grocery store tonight to restock the food in the house. We had to resort to pizza last night since there was no food in the house to cook. It wasn't very good, so I managed to choke down only one slice.....so I still ended up below my daily cal target, so I think that's why it didn't kill me on the scale this morning.

when i get hungry, i just eat another meal of beans or egg salad sandwiches, whatever.

i'm confused. how are you eating sandwiches if there is no bread allowed on this plan?

i am doing a modified plan...tim references that most people in his book (that were on his blog or whatever) do that. if i don't see at least 1lb/week lost, i will get more strict. but i'm not too concerned...i already lost 20 lbs before in 2004 eating a lot of egg salad sandwiches, so the proof is in the - sandwiches, lol.

i also get sick if i don't eat fruit. his rationale against fruit doesn't take into account that countries like russia store fruit in the cellars all winter long. & they can it. i ate fruit in the winter there, without refrigerators. so i am supplementing with some fresh fruit so my C levels don't fall.