Can Men and Women REALLY ever just bo friends?
Replies
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This scene immediately came to mind...
As they leave the diner, Sally defensively believes he is "coming on" to her. To carry his line of reasoning further - to get her riled up and to argue his point - Harry proposes going to bed with her. Ultimately, Harry believes that men and women cannot be friends, because sex will always interfere. [This is a classic discussion of the film's main question: "Can a man and a woman ever be 'just friends'"?]:
Harry: What? Can't a man say a woman is attractive without it being a come-on? All right, all right. Let's just say, just for the sake of argument, that it was a come-on. What do you want me to do about it? I take it back, OK? I take it back.
Sally: You can't take it back.
Harry: Why not?
Sally: Because it's already out there.
Harry: Oh jeez. What are we supposed to do? Call the cops? It's already out there!
Sally: Just let it lie, OK?
Harry: Great! Let it lie. That's my policy. (They get into the car.) That's what I always say. Let it lie. Want to spend the night in a motel? (She glares at him.) You see what I did? I didn't let it lie.
Sally: Harry -
Harry: I said I would and I didn't...I went the other way...What?
Sally: We are just going to be friends, OK?
Harry: Great, friends. It's the best thing...You realize, of course, that we can never be friends.
Sally: Why not?
Harry: What I'm saying is - and this is not a come-on in any way, shape, or form - is that men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way.
Sally: That's not true. I have a number of men friends and there is no sex involved.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: No, you don't.
Sally: Yes, I do.
Harry: You only think you do.
Sally: You're saying I'm having sex with these men without my knowledge?
Harry: No, what I'm saying is they all want to have sex with you.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: They do not.
Harry: Do too.
Sally: How do you know?
Harry: Because no man can be friends with a woman that he finds attractive. He always wants to have sex with her.
Sally: So you're saying that a man can be friends with a woman he finds unattractive.
Harry: No, you pretty much want to nail them, too.
Sally: What if they don't want to have sex with you?
Harry: Doesn't matter, because the sex thing is already out there, so the friendship is ultimately doomed, and that is the end of the story.
Sally: Well, I guess we're not gonna be friends, then.
Harry: Guess not.
Sally: That's too bad. You were the only person that I knew in New York.0 -
Well,,, here's kind'a the deal. Men and women can be friends, and just friends, or more than friends,,, but the guy will never forget that the 2 of you have parts that will fit together. Well here,,, Fred Reed explains it perfectly:
"Men think of sex the way they think of tennis. Suppose I want to work off some energy. I call my buddy Ralph, and we meet at the courts, and have a good time for a few sets -- sweat and grunt, twist our ankles, fall down and break things, and end up in a mild coma.
When we're through, he doesn't want me to marry him. When in fact I don't, he doesn't feel exploited. In fact, he feels deeply relieved.
That's how men look at sex. A man genuinely doesn't understand why he can't say to the young lady in the next cubicle, "Hey, Jane, what say we go to my place at lunch for a roll in the hay?"... etc.etc.
SO - understand that the dude is just your pal, and that's fine. But also understand that given all the options, many many men would be perfectly happy boinking several of their female pals. It is what it is. Most guys will never make a play 'cause we have sense enough to A-conform to societal norms,,, and B-realize that friends and wives and girlfriends don't share our point of view. But the undercurrent is there.
You'll never convince me that lotsa women don't feel the same way. I read Cosmo... :-)
Wife's point-of-view:
Just because the guy is thinking it does not mean it's going to happen. Sometimes another guy can explain what the husband/boyfriend doesn't or can't explain very well. Friends come in both sexes and that's not a problem unless someone is close-minded enough to not think it through all the way. Like Roseanne Bar said; "It's not even in our top ten." Love ya' baby.0 -
I used to say yes, but now It's a bit more complicated than that. Last year, a very close friend of ours expressed his feelings for me. Hubby and I were in a rough patch in our marriage, and that led things to get a little out of hand.
I think it can be done, but it's difficult.0 -
in certain cases absolutely...my best freiend is a guy and has been since we met in kindergarten. the loophole to our strictly just friends is that he is gay..0
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Yes. I grew up with 5 brothers and no sisters. I relate better to men than I do women. I shared houses with guys for years with no involvment other than friendship. I tried sharing a house with a woman once....didn't work out. I was taught the same things my brothers were, how to work on cars, how to use tools, how to do construction stuff, how to be independant. My brothers were also taught to sew, cook, clean and do laundry. Sometimes it drove my boyfriends nuts when I fixed things (correctly the first time) when they couldn't. The few female friends I have are similar in thought to me.... women, but not "girly girls". I would guess that I have twice as many guy friends as female friends. Have I ever been intimate with a male friend? Yes. Did it change the friendship? Yes, it didn't destroy the friendship, it did change it though. Are we still friends? Yes. Intimate? No. Does my current guy know all this? Yes. Is he ok with it? He says he is..... probably only because they live a few states away.0
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Too many of my men friends don't think of me in a sexual way and it really pi$$es me off. :laugh:
Lolol.
What I find interesting here is that most people are saying it's the men who want more. I know plenty of women who only think with their...ya know.0 -
:runs to grab biology book to figure out what "ya know" is:Too many of my men friends don't think of me in a sexual way and it really pi$$es me off. :laugh:
Lolol.
What I find interesting here is that most people are saying it's the men who want more. I know plenty of women who only think with their...ya know.0 -
I never said anything was going to happen, I never said I wanted anything to happen. I just pointed out that for the dude the idea, the possibility... always lurks in the back of the mind. Yes, men and women can be 'just friends',,, but I'll bet that in an awful lot of cases - it "just friends" gal invites "just friend" guy for a friendly tumble in the supply closet, the dude'll jump on it. It's kind'a what they do. Not all, (and not me, of course!), but a lot. :bigsmile:
Wife's point-of-view:Well,,, here's kind'a the deal. <<snip>>
Just because the guy is thinking it does not mean it's going to happen. Sometimes another guy can explain what the husband/boyfriend doesn't or can't explain very well. Friends come in both sexes and that's not a problem unless someone is close-minded enough to not think it through all the way. Like Roseanne Bar said; "It's not even in our top ten." Love ya' baby.
I wondered what it would take to get you to post something.0 -
Too many of my men friends don't think of me in a sexual way and it really pi$$es me off. :laugh:
Lolol.
What I find interesting here is that most people are saying it's the men who want more. I know plenty of women who only think with their...ya know.
Yes, thank you! We men get blamed for everything lol.0 -
mein this a juicy thread will have to read later :S darn pile designs0
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I've always had more male friends than female. When I met my bf I told him that's just the way it is. I just get along better with people of the opposite sex. Sometimes there are moments of harmless flirting but I think you'll find that in any situation. It's human nature.0
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"my" opinion, from "my" experiences.....if you are in a committed relationship you have no business having a friendship with someone of the opposite sex that your spouse isn't also friends with! for example, my honey moved to the state I live in to be with me. So now, all of my girlfriends, are now his girlfriends too. meaning we can all hang out, go out, so on and so on. When I go back to cali with him, his friends are my friends, and so on. regardless of sex. now our friends are our friends. male or female. i hand him my phone sometimes and ask him to call so and so for me to ask them a question, and he would do the same. Just like when you get married his family becomes your family, it should be the same way with friends. everything should be out in the open and stay that way! If you have a friend of the opposite sex it better be someone that you can invite over to hang out with you and your hubby! Ofcourse, as always there are lines that can be crossed. it would hurt me if i found out that my honey was texting one of my friends behind my back or something. but the key is trust, and communication, so i know that would never happen. if she texted him, it would be something he could hand me the phone and be like so and so texted this. i know i rambled, but you get my point!0
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I've been told on several occasion that the majority of men automatically look at every women and think "I would, or I wouldn't."
Kinda like that Family Guy episode where Stewie says "I'd do her... do her... wouldn't do her.... Whew! who hasn't done her?! ...Lose the pigtails and we'll talk..."
But that doesn't necessarily mean that the guy wants to actually do anything about it, does it?0 -
My husband and I both are absolutely 100% against it. While it can be completely platonic - usually it's not 100%. We are friends with other couples - but I am never alone w/ the other husband and my husband is never alone w/the other wife. All of our conversations are with each other present. There are also high walls we put up when around the opposite sex. I do not hug guys I know and my husband is also very physically guarded around other women. I'm actually really blessed b/c my husband will not even watch movies that have ANY provocative scenes in them. He honors me and our marriage that much and he knows that seeing those things will make his mind go places it shouldn't. Most women can't say that of their husbands and I really am blessed to know my husband loves the Lord and loves me enough to have self-control. Anyway... off subject a little bit.
Some people may think that's overboard, but too many marriages are victims of poor choices. Emotional connections that can lead to a physical attraction that can lead to an affair has claimed many a marriage. We absolutely refuse for that to be a possibility for our marriage.
My husband is my absolute best friend and I'm his - so I don't have a 'need' for another male's company or friendship. Same goes for my husband not needing another female companion. It's just dangerous territory. Workplace affairs don't start out as affairs, they start out with random lunch dates, then more conversations, then the relationship grows and then it is dangerous.
To us, outside friendships are not as important as our marriage (in which we are 100% fulfilled). That's my take on it.
Edit: Oh and I totally agree with the poster who said your husband's opinion should matter most. If he is uncomfortable with you hanging out with another man - then you should honor your husband and not do it. Same if it were the other way around.
I had 2 great guy friends while I was engaged to my husband and looking back I KNOW for sure they would have taken things farther if I had allowed it. Despite there being NO feelings toward them besides platonic feelings - I still at times felt the sexual tension and it was awkward. Totally just not worth the hassle. One of the guys who was my bff actually told me he was interested in me. We had been friends since 9th grade. This guy (after we parted ways) ended up dating a girl, dumped her started dating and eventually MARRIED her mother (causing the destruction of her 20+ yr. marriage) He was 1/2 her age. GROSS and wrong beyond belief. So glad I let that one go - it's obvious according to his lack of standards what would have happened if I'd allowed more than friendship.
Not to mention my husband's 'bff' in high-school who was obsessed with him and in love with him but he was too nice to stop being her friend... she hated me and was super possessive of him. He cut her loose whenever she finally emailed him bad-mouthing me. guy/girl friendships when it involves seriously committed or married people is just too much drama waiting to happen. So not worth it.0 -
I've been told on several occasion that the majority of men automatically look at every women and think "I would, or I wouldn't."
Kinda like that Family Guy episode where Stewie says "I'd do her... do her... wouldn't do her.... Whew! who hasn't done her?! ...Lose the pigtails and we'll talk..."
But that doesn't necessarily mean that the guy wants to actually do anything about it, does it?
That was what I was saying earlier...even if he finds the lady attractive or to be crude "doable" it doesn`t mean he thinks about it all the time/will ever push it or that it is the only reason he would be friends.0 -
I've been told on several occasion that the majority of men automatically look at every women and think "I would, or I wouldn't."
Kinda like that Family Guy episode where Stewie says "I'd do her... do her... wouldn't do her.... Whew! who hasn't done her?! ...Lose the pigtails and we'll talk..."
But that doesn't necessarily mean that the guy wants to actually do anything about it, does it?
Yes I agree...and I love that little skit in Family Guy. I would imagine that a lot of women think the same way. It's completely natural to find people attractive. It's up to you to make the right choices in life.0 -
One of my best friends is male. We've been buddies for over ten years, and while he says suggestive things from time to time, it's always a joke and there is nothing between us. I've never had a boyfriend that felt threatened by him at all - and there has never been a reason for them to.0
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I'm a firm believer in what you put out there, is what you get back. This "philosophy" applies to love, friendship, how you present yourself, etc..
So with that said, I have many friendships with Men.
However every once in a while I will meet someone where there just may be a thing - and that's when I step back and evaluate how I can approach the friendship.0 -
My husband and I both are absolutely 100% against it. While it can be completely platonic - usually it's not 100%. We are friends with other couples - but I am never alone w/ the other husband and my husband is never alone w/the other wife. All of our conversations are with each other present. There are also high walls we put up when around the opposite sex. I do not hug guys I know and my husband is also very physically guarded around other women. I'm actually really blessed b/c my husband will not even watch movies that have ANY provocative scenes in them. He honors me and our marriage that much and he knows that seeing those things will make his mind go places it shouldn't. Most women can't say that of their husbands and I really am blessed to know my husband loves the Lord and loves me enough to have self-control. Anyway... off subject a little bit.
Some people may think that's overboard, but too many marriages are victims of poor choices. Emotional connections that can lead to a physical attraction that can lead to an affair has claimed many a marriage. We absolutely refuse for that to be a possibility for our marriage.
Everyone is different and I;'m not one to judge and u almost had me until the movie thing
I don't get that..that does seem to be taking it a tad too far
But if it works for you and hubby and you and hubby are happy..that is all that matters!
My husband is my absolute best friend and I'm his - so I don't have a 'need' for another male's company or friendship. Same goes for my husband not needing another female companion. It's just dangerous territory. Workplace affairs don't start out as affairs, they start out with random lunch dates, then more conversations, then the relationship grows and then it is dangerous.
To us, outside friendships are not as important as our marriage (in which we are 100% fulfilled). That's my take on it.
Edit: Oh and I totally agree with the poster who said your husband's opinion should matter most. If he is uncomfortable with you hanging out with another man - then you should honor your husband and not do it. Same if it were the other way around.
I had 2 great guy friends while I was engaged to my husband and looking back I KNOW for sure they would have taken things farther if I had allowed it. Despite there being NO feelings toward them besides platonic feelings - I still at times felt the sexual tension and it was awkward. Totally just not worth the hassle. One of the guys who was my bff actually told me he was interested in me. We had been friends since 9th grade. This guy (after we parted ways) ended up dating a girl, dumped her started dating and eventually MARRIED her mother (causing the destruction of her 20+ yr. marriage) He was 1/2 her age. GROSS and wrong beyond belief. So glad I let that one go - it's obvious according to his lack of standards what would have happened if I'd allowed more than friendship.
Not to mention my husband's 'bff' in high-school who was obsessed with him and in love with him but he was too nice to stop being her friend... she hated me and was super possessive of him. He cut her loose whenever she finally emailed him bad-mouthing me. guy/girl friendships when it involves seriously committed or married people is just too much drama waiting to happen. So not worth it.
Everyone is different and I;'m not one to judge and u almost had me until the movie thing
I don't get that..that does seem to be taking it a tad too far
But if it works for you and hubby and you and hubby are happy..that is all that matters!0 -
I disagree with your husband. I think there is no harmn in you and your neighbour going walking together. If he is that worried he could always join you on your walks if he is able. I know my husband would not have a problem with this because he trusts me and knows that I want him and only him. Both my husband and I have friends of the opposite sex and we're both ok with that.0
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I think it is COMPLETELY INSANE to think that in every case a man and woman cannot be just friends.
Now, Im a playful flirt with everyone...and my male and female friends alike are as well.
This has never caused a problem.
The only time there is a problem is when someone allows themselves to feel something more...and then it either needs to be discussed, gotten over, or they need to stop being friends.
I just don't understand why there is always such an issue with this.
I, on the other hand, do have a slight issue with my bf being bffs with his ex. That he once left me for. Ok, twice left me for.
I think I get a mulligan on that one, though, and I'm STILL letting it happen and working past my issues with it on my own.0 -
My best friend is a guy from work. He knows basically everything about me--we kind of helped each other through getting rid of our ex'es! Each day one upping the other on the next ridiculously stupid thing our significant others would do! We can say just about anything without any expectations! He's like the big brother I never had : )0
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My husband and I both are absolutely 100% against it. While it can be completely platonic - usually it's not 100%. We are friends with other couples - but I am never alone w/ the other husband and my husband is never alone w/the other wife. All of our conversations are with each other present. There are also high walls we put up when around the opposite sex. I do not hug guys I know and my husband is also very physically guarded around other women. I'm actually really blessed b/c my husband will not even watch movies that have ANY provocative scenes in them. He honors me and our marriage that much and he knows that seeing those things will make his mind go places it shouldn't. Most women can't say that of their husbands and I really am blessed to know my husband loves the Lord and loves me enough to have self-control. Anyway... off subject a little bit.
Some people may think that's overboard, but too many marriages are victims of poor choices. Emotional connections that can lead to a physical attraction that can lead to an affair has claimed many a marriage. We absolutely refuse for that to be a possibility for our marriage.
Everyone is different and I;'m not one to judge and u almost had me until the movie thing
I don't get that..that does seem to be taking it a tad too far
But if it works for you and hubby and you and hubby are happy..that is all that matters!
My husband is my absolute best friend and I'm his - so I don't have a 'need' for another male's company or friendship. Same goes for my husband not needing another female companion. It's just dangerous territory. Workplace affairs don't start out as affairs, they start out with random lunch dates, then more conversations, then the relationship grows and then it is dangerous.
To us, outside friendships are not as important as our marriage (in which we are 100% fulfilled). That's my take on it.
Edit: Oh and I totally agree with the poster who said your husband's opinion should matter most. If he is uncomfortable with you hanging out with another man - then you should honor your husband and not do it. Same if it were the other way around.
I had 2 great guy friends while I was engaged to my husband and looking back I KNOW for sure they would have taken things farther if I had allowed it. Despite there being NO feelings toward them besides platonic feelings - I still at times felt the sexual tension and it was awkward. Totally just not worth the hassle. One of the guys who was my bff actually told me he was interested in me. We had been friends since 9th grade. This guy (after we parted ways) ended up dating a girl, dumped her started dating and eventually MARRIED her mother (causing the destruction of her 20+ yr. marriage) He was 1/2 her age. GROSS and wrong beyond belief. So glad I let that one go - it's obvious according to his lack of standards what would have happened if I'd allowed more than friendship.
Not to mention my husband's 'bff' in high-school who was obsessed with him and in love with him but he was too nice to stop being her friend... she hated me and was super possessive of him. He cut her loose whenever she finally emailed him bad-mouthing me. guy/girl friendships when it involves seriously committed or married people is just too much drama waiting to happen. So not worth it.
Everyone is different and I;'m not one to judge and u almost had me until the movie thing
I don't get that..that does seem to be taking it a tad too far
But if it works for you and hubby and you and hubby are happy..that is all that matters!
As followers of Christ, we believe that anything sexual should be strictly between a husband and a wife. Viewing movies w/suggestive, sexual or unwholesome situations are not things we wish to see and can leave a lot of room for thinking about sexual things in ways God never intended (fantasizing about sex apart from the marriage relationship). We believe that purity is the best road to take and we are very happy and fulfilled
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I, on the other hand, do have a slight issue with my bf being bffs with his ex. That he once left me for. Ok, twice left me for.
major boyfriend failure.
... damn. Sorry bb.0 -
thanks. it drives me absolutely nuts, but I am REALLY trying to deal with it.
I already threatened to leave him for being bffs with ANOTHER ex...and shortly after we dealt with that he started talking to the other one.
*sigh*
he better be glad im the best gf ever.0 -
Depends on the level of friendship. A workout buddy or casual chat friend. Sure. But the type of friend you bare your soul to? NO!
I had lot's of "friends who were girls" in High School. I was attracted to every one of them, and eventually hooked up with a few of them. It didn't matter if they were dating someone else at the moment; eventually the relationship would have issues and I'd be there to save the day. It wasn't like I was taking advantage of them. I cared for them, I was their friend. But I was attracted to each of them, and due to the friendship I had intimate knowledge of who they really were, and they knew the same stuff about me. In fact, my wife was and is my best friend. She tried to stay friends with an old friend from high school, he eventually started coming on to her and they had to end their friendship. I had a similar thing happen with a friend of mine from high school. Hadn't seen her in years, she called me on the phone after my mother gave her my number. About 5 mins into the conversation she started flirting and coming on to me.
I am of the opinion that men and women can only be friends if they are completely unattracted to each other. Ladies, I'm not saying if you are not attracted to him, but that you both are not attracted to each other... All of those friends in high school said I wasn't their type... until they knew me better and then I was their type... Unfortunately you can best believe that if you have a pulse and he's talking to you, he'd do you... that's just how we are. And as such, you shouldn't have really deep, emotional friendships with members of the opposite sex, unless you're open to going to bed with them at some point.0 -
Sure they can.
Once they're completely tired of having sex with each other.0 -
I had a conversation with my husband this morning. I go walking with my neighbor who is a guy, nice, make small talk and chit chat etc, never does or says anything weird or potentially sexual ever come up, our conversations today centered around Tilapia!
My husband believes that it is impossible for men and women to have a friendship with out it ever getting complicated by emotions or sexuality. I think you can be friends with men or women. His words having to be edited, were basically men think with their "you know" and that this is just how things are. I was wondering what other peoples opinions on male/female friendships are.
I have several male friends with whom sex never came up. They have been wonderful friends to me and it never felt weird. We liked each other but were not attracted to each other. And they were definitely straight and had girlfriends or wives (or both -- some I've known a long time, so I've seen them go through a few relationships!).
I've even been alone with them in their homes or mine and it was as comfortable and platonic as being with female friends.0 -
I had a conversation with my husband this morning. I go walking with my neighbor who is a guy, nice, make small talk and chit chat etc, never does or says anything weird or potentially sexual ever come up, our conversations today centered around Tilapia!
My husband believes that it is impossible for men and women to have a friendship with out it ever getting complicated by emotions or sexuality. I think you can be friends with men or women. His words having to be edited, were basically men think with their "you know" and that this is just how things are. I was wondering what other peoples opinions on male/female friendships are.
I have several male friends with whom sex never came up. They have been wonderful friends to me and it never felt weird. We liked each other but were not attracted to each other. And they were definitely straight and had girlfriends or wives (or both -- some I've known a long time, so I've seen them go through a few relationships!).
I've even been alone with them in their homes or mine and it was as comfortable and platonic as being with female friends.
Just because you are not attracted to them doesn't mean they are not attracted to you... Sex may have never come up, but it doesn't mean it wasn't thought about... We think about it A LOT...0 -
When Harry Met Sally is my favorite movie.0
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