Paleo/Primal way of eating = finally the truth revealed?

Options
189111314

Replies

  • Grokette
    Grokette Posts: 3,330 Member
    Options
    Your fighting a losing battle!! You will never get through to the people that can do nothing more than subtract calories out - calories in = magic weight loss...........
  • YeaILift
    YeaILift Posts: 580 Member
    Options
    Your fighting a losing battle!! You will never get through to the people that can do nothing more than subtract calories out - calories in = magic weight loss...........

    You will also never get through to people who are largely unaware of how speculative their orthorexic tendencies are.
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
    Options
    So, (many) people don't understand the difference between someone having a level of gluten sensitivity, and buying into a goofy, totally arbitrary diet?

    I see the local jester has showed back up.

    "You're welcome, when people attack the person and do not answer the question, it shows their lack of either information or intelligence, I will let you decide which works for you."

    Sound familiar?

    Did you ask a question?????
  • Grokette
    Grokette Posts: 3,330 Member
    Options
    Your fighting a losing battle!! You will never get through to the people that can do nothing more than subtract calories out - calories in = magic weight loss...........

    You will also never get through to people who are largely unaware of how speculative their orthorexic tendencies are.

    I am not speculating anything and I do not have orthorexic tendencies either.

    I eat plenty of carbs, fats and protein. I just do not eat grains, beans and legumes due to gluten allergies and the inflammation in the joints that I get and I no longer consume much dairy due to the excess mucus it causes my body to produce.

    And best believe there are more people like me then not. They just haven't figured out the source of why they feel achy, moody and just over all feeling lethargic and feeling not themselves.
  • beatlemom
    beatlemom Posts: 250 Member
    Options
    I don't think there is a single "truth" to how people should eat. The human body is amazingly complex and adaptable, so unless you're a high performance athlete, there is a wide range of macros that work for most people (the split between fat/carbs/protein). Regardless of the specifics, if someone tries to eat a fairly well balanced diet with 15-30% protein (some people go a little higher), 20-30% fat and 45-60% carbs (some people go a little lower), and try to get most of those calories from foods that are in or very close to their original forms (minimize the processed foods you eat), then they can be healthy.

    I don't buy into any of these restrictive food plans because while I may agree with elements in each of them, I find the combination of restrictions unnecessary and overly-extreme. For example, I agree with the Paleo ideas that eating fat (even animal fat) is not bad for you, getting enough protein, eating foods in unprocessed form and that we should avoid processed sugars but I don't agree with the idea that you should have to cut out all starches and legumes. Perhaps some people's bodies are "picky" or have food allergies and need something a little different (ex - very few/no grains, no gluten, no dairy, etc.) but most people don't need to do anything extreme to be healthy and feel good.


    I feel the same way!! I have tried Atkins, Paleo, South Beach. I have finally adapted my own combination of foods that is right fo ME. Foods that I can eat for my entire life and not feel unhappy.
    I DO believe that everyone has to find their own path and life solutions.
  • lodro
    lodro Posts: 982 Member
    Options
    Your fighting a losing battle!! You will never get through to the people that can do nothing more than subtract calories out - calories in = magic weight loss...........

    You will also never get through to people who are largely unaware of how speculative their orthorexic tendencies are.

    Claiming "my body needs grains" is just as orthorexic.
  • Noz7
    Noz7 Posts: 59 Member
    Options
    Where are her sources for these remarkable claims?? "learn to be a master of your own genetic destiny" !!!!! This is outrageous! I did a Masters degree in gene expression, by the way.

    Well you should be able to tell us then. Where in our genes is it "expressed" that humans should be eating big macs, mac and cheese, refined sugar, hormone injected milk, and the list is very, very, very long?

    Also FYI things aren't "expressed in our genes", GENES THEMSELVES are expressed. There's a big fundamental difference there. Don't attempt to comment on things you don't have even a basic understanding of.

    Eat healthy- I'm done participating commenting on this topic.

    You guys are having a big argument about nothing!
    NOTHING!

    She mis-read the website, thought it was saying the opposite of what it actually was saying.
  • YeaILift
    YeaILift Posts: 580 Member
    Options
    Your fighting a losing battle!! You will never get through to the people that can do nothing more than subtract calories out - calories in = magic weight loss...........

    You will also never get through to people who are largely unaware of how speculative their orthorexic tendencies are.

    Claiming "my body needs grains" is just as orthorexic.

    When did I claim "your body needs gains"?

    If over the course of the week Person X gets his carbs from grains, starchy vegetables (no restriction on type), non-starchy vegetables, dairy, and legumes. Person Y gets an identical amount of carbs from just Paleo-approved veggies (no white potatoes, no beans, legumes, etc) and fruits only. Neither have allergies or intolerances to the foods they choose, and both meet their recommend micronutrition values. According to Paleo logic, Person Y's diet is superior because....[insert speculations about prehistoric eating habits combined with a heavy dose of hypocrisy].
  • cgan
    cgan Posts: 15
    Options
    ""[/quote]

    Claiming "my body needs grains" is just as orthorexic.
    [/quote]""
    ""When did I claim "your body needs gains"?

    If over the course of the week Person X gets his carbs from grains, starchy vegetables (no restriction on type), non-starchy vegetables, dairy, and legumes. Person Y gets an identical amount of carbs from just Paleo-approved veggies (no white potatoes, no beans, legumes, etc) and fruits only. Neither have allergies or intolerances to the foods they choose, and both meet their recommend micronutrition values. According to Paleo logic, Person Y's diet is superior because....[insert speculations about prehistoric eating habits combined with a heavy dose of hypocrisy].
    [/quote]""


    Actually it's more that beans/potatoes/legumes etc have a negative impact on insulin/inflammation/digestion/gut health... things some people are interested in avoiding.

    If you want to get your carbs from vegetables or bread or potatoes or doughnuts, who cares. I'm happy with my improved health and energy levels from ditching grains and I would advise anyone to give it a try. If after a dedicated try, it's too hard or not working or not a maintainable lifestyle for you, then ditch it.
  • pyro13g
    pyro13g Posts: 1,127 Member
    Options
    If over the course of the week Person X gets his carbs from grains, starchy vegetables (no restriction on type), non-starchy vegetables, dairy, and legumes. Person Y gets an identical amount of carbs from just Paleo-approved veggies (no white potatoes, no beans, legumes, etc) and fruits only. Neither have allergies or intolerances to the foods they choose, and both meet their recommend micronutrition values. According to Paleo logic, Person Y's diet is superior because....[insert speculations about prehistoric eating habits combined with a heavy dose of hypocrisy].

    Person Y's nutrition will blow person X's away by many times over.
  • YeaILift
    YeaILift Posts: 580 Member
    Options
    If over the course of the week Person X gets his carbs from grains, starchy vegetables (no restriction on type), non-starchy vegetables, dairy, and legumes. Person Y gets an identical amount of carbs from just Paleo-approved veggies (no white potatoes, no beans, legumes, etc) and fruits only. Neither have allergies or intolerances to the foods they choose, and both meet their recommend micronutrition values. According to Paleo logic, Person Y's diet is superior because....[insert speculations about prehistoric eating habits combined with a heavy dose of hypocrisy].

    Person Y's nutrition will blow person X's away by many times over.
    Because? Do you realize that the law of diminishing returns applies to micronutrition?


    Actually it's more that beans/potatoes/legumes etc have a negative impact on insulin/inflammation/digestion/gut health... things some people are interested in avoiding.

    If you want to get your carbs from vegetables or bread or potatoes or doughnuts, who cares. I'm happy with my improved health and energy levels from ditching grains and I would advise anyone to give it a try. If after a dedicated try, it's too hard or not working or not a maintainable lifestyle for you, then ditch it.
    Prove that beans/potatoes/legumes etc have a negative impact on insulin/inflammation/digestion/gut health or are you just speaking from personal experience? What exactly is "gut health" anyway?
  • YeaILift
    YeaILift Posts: 580 Member
    Options
    This is a load of crock....calories in/calories out....I eat over 2000 calories a day and have managed to lose 30 lbs in a little over 6 weeks. I do not have a gym membership and I am not lifting any thing heavier then my purse. IF people would look at the prevailing evidence (watch "FAT HEAD") they might change their minds or at least be more "open minded".

    Yes, let's ignore the laws of thermodynamics and accept the belief of an amateur film maker/computer programmer who doesn't support many of his claims with evidence and interview anti-carb zealots.

    I eat 2300 calories a day with no cardio and lose weight. Surely this must be because of the dairy I drink and grains I eat. See? If you eat grains and milk you can have even more calories. Or in the real world, you can stop using anecdotal evidence to support your claims.
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
    Options
    If over the course of the week Person X gets his carbs from grains, starchy vegetables (no restriction on type), non-starchy vegetables, dairy, and legumes. Person Y gets an identical amount of carbs from just Paleo-approved veggies (no white potatoes, no beans, legumes, etc) and fruits only. Neither have allergies or intolerances to the foods they choose, and both meet their recommend micronutrition values. According to Paleo logic, Person Y's diet is superior because....[insert speculations about prehistoric eating habits combined with a heavy dose of hypocrisy].

    Person Y's nutrition will blow person X's away by many times over.
    Because? Do you realize that the law of diminishing returns applies to micronutrition?


    Actually it's more that beans/potatoes/legumes etc have a negative impact on insulin/inflammation/digestion/gut health... things some people are interested in avoiding.

    If you want to get your carbs from vegetables or bread or potatoes or doughnuts, who cares. I'm happy with my improved health and energy levels from ditching grains and I would advise anyone to give it a try. If after a dedicated try, it's too hard or not working or not a maintainable lifestyle for you, then ditch it.
    Prove that beans/potatoes/legumes etc have a negative impact on insulin/inflammation/digestion/gut health or are you just speaking from personal experience? What exactly is "gut health" anyway?

    try reading, it has been proven that Beans/potatoes/grains (I added grains becouse beans and legumes are the same thing) spike insulin, weather this has a huge negative affect on you personally is up to your genetics, but no matter your genes it will spike your insulin, which is not as good as a steady insulin level throughout the day. Well unless that doesn't fit your preconcived idea of nutrition.
  • freerange
    freerange Posts: 1,722 Member
    Options
    [/quote]
    Yes, let's ignore the laws of thermodynamics and accept the belief of an amateur film maker/computer programmer who doesn't support many of his claims with evidence and interview anti-carb zealots.
    [/quote]

    What does the laws of thermodynamics tell you about how much fat will be stored if a person eats 5000 cals of sugar or 5000 cals of lean beef?
  • lodro
    lodro Posts: 982 Member
    Options
    you don't take into account metabolic mechanisms concerning glucose and insulin?
  • superhippiechik
    superhippiechik Posts: 1,044 Member
    Options
    A friend of mine tried to follow the Paleo Diet after her husband's trainer recommended the book. She said she lost 3 pounds in a few days but gained it right back after quitting. She said it is really hard to stick to.

    I have the Eat Clean Diet Recharged and have read lots of the Oxygen stuff and they do say physique is 80% nutrition - however the "eat clean" diet allows a lot more foods than Paleo and the author and models in the magazines look pretty darn good! For now I am trying to follow that and another book I have as guidelines and am working on cleaning up my diet.

    My mom sees a local functional medicine doctor who promotes a gluten-free, dairy-free anti-inflammatory diet. She has had a lot of success when she follows his recommendations, not so much in weight control, but in pain control from arthritis. This local doc recommends "Ultra Metabolism" by Dr. Mark Hyman.


    I personally think Eat Clean and Ultra Metabolism are easier to do so I am using them now as my guides but I might try Primal/Paleo if I don't get the results I want. I haven't yet tried giving up dairy or gluten so I will probably try that before going Paleo. Another book that is similar is the Schwarzbein Principle. I think she allows whole grains too but she promotes a "whole" food diet too.





    Love Oxygen and love clean eating! I also love a sandwich and some beans! Could never live without beans and legumes.
  • YeaILift
    YeaILift Posts: 580 Member
    Options
    What does the laws of thermodynamics tell you about how much fat will be stored if a person eats 5000 cals of sugar or 5000 cals of lean beef?

    A perfect example of a straw man argument. Thank you for contributing nothing.
  • hpsnickers1
    hpsnickers1 Posts: 2,783 Member
    Options
    I'm extremely curious about the claim that "cavemen only ate 80 g of carbs per day"

    The term "caveman" refers very generically to early hominids, from all the way back to australopithecus, 5 million years ago, to neanderthal, so how can you claim with any sort of accuracy that early man ate one same level of carbohydrates (even approximately) for over 5 million years? That is so illogical it boggles the mind.

    I am no expert on the topic and sorry for using the word caveman loosely.

    I think Mark Sissal quoted the 80g figure in his book - but I dont know where he got it from. In Loren Cordain's Paleo Diet book he claims to have done some research on the last remaining hunter gather societies today. Analysis of their diet shows they consume anywhere between 22% - 40% of their diet as carbs. How many grams that equates to I dont know. Is it correct? I dont know. I will let the experts to take it up. Does eating only 80g of carbs a day make you loose weight? - well it did for me -and I am sure the experts will have an opinion on that too.

    carb restrictions will cause you to lose muscle mass more than fat mass.
  • hpsnickers1
    hpsnickers1 Posts: 2,783 Member
    Options
    In case anyone wondered where the heck I've been 'round these forums...

    I've been on the experiment of what I'd call the standard American diet (150g plus daily) for half marathon training for the past 3 months. I'm probably eating about 2200 calories per day to keep up with running 4x weekly. The day before longer runs, I eat well above 200g carbohdyrate to maintain my energy. I've tried eating less carbs but I bonk out. I also feel like a sugar junkie. Constantly want to eat. Bleh.

    Prior to that I'd been eating low carb / paleo (I'm not a zealot about avoiding all grains or sugars - but I liked to keep my carb intake within balance to maintain my weight). I was keeping in shape by lifting, doing light runs and walks (no running exceeding 3 miles), and basic play - climbing around, being a doofus outside, y'know... I hit 129 back in the fall and I was lookin goooood! Jeans were fittin nice, heck yes, go hot Barney.

    I feel like utter s**t eating this many carbs. I've went up to 135 pounds, lost muscle tone, and feel sluggish. My blood iron sucks (even with supplementation), I'm getting joint pain (again), and yes, did I mention I feel like s**t? I'VE BECOME SKINNY FAT. Who cares that I can continuously run for 10 miles. I AM FLABBY. BOOO FRIGGITY HISS.

    I'm going to run this half marathon this weekend and call it quits for long distance running. There's seriously no point to beating myself up over this. I have no idea how or why the general public idolizes distance running as being the pinnacle of health.

    I doubted some of the paleo and primal zealotry and recommendations, but wow, people, I'll be honest, I think there's a lot of sense in what they're saying - especially about lifestyle. Lifting and "slow, low" cardio...they win. Hands down. Bicker all you want about how many carbs to eat to maintain lifestyle or whatever caveman ate. I'm going back to eating less than 100g daily and eating some delicious fatty fat animal fat because wow, do I feel so much better eating that way.
  • YeaILift
    YeaILift Posts: 580 Member
    Options
    you don't take into account metabolic mechanisms concerning glucose and insulin?

    This article explains why those points are moot far better than I can. Notice how it is supported with references to relevant, research driven works? A crazy concept, I know.

    www.alanaragon.com/elements-challenging-the-validity-of-the-glycemic-index.html