Paleo/Primal way of eating = finally the truth revealed?

This is for YealLift;
Funny how things work out, I just happen to be over on Marksdailyapple and noticed this thread about milk, I think this will open your eyes to relationship between dairy and Paleo.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread27359.html

This is for YealLift;
Funny how things work out, I just happen to be over on Marksdailyapple and noticed this thread about milk, I think this will open your eyes to relationship between dairy and Paleo.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread27359.html

So, the Paleo diet is about following the diet of our hunter-gather ancestors except where it is convient not to? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

And thus endith the lesson.

You have made up your mind and only have mockery and hate to offer here. Noticed you are unwilling to share your diet, to conveniently avoid any scrutiny? Which is fine.

Speaking of straw man, isn’t the definition of straw man, setting up an untrue statement and then proving it wrong to bolster your own argument? My question to you is, who made you the arbitrator of what is and is not Paleo?

And just so you know the definition of hypocritical is telling someone to do one thing then doing something else yourself. I don’t think you will find anywhere that I, Mark, or anyone here has ever said; to call yourself a follower of the Primal Blueprint, you must never, ever, ever, not even once allow dairy to touch your lips.

Sounds like you have a problem with the word Paleo.

YeaILift: A quick correction. There was a discovery a while back that proved that grains were farmed further back than originally thought, including the time period somehow magically deemed perfect by the Paleo crowd. The reaction was exactly what you'd expect. Nothing. It's like a cult that refuses to take in any refuting data. Cherry-picking, as you have nailed it in this thread.

YeaILift: A quick correction. There was a discovery a while back that proved that grains were farmed further back than originally thought, including the time period somehow magically deemed perfect by the Paleo crowd. The reaction was exactly what you'd expect. Nothing. It's like a cult that refuses to take in any refuting data. Cherry-picking, as you have nailed it in this thread.

I don't recall Paleo saying that they never ate grains way way back in time. They were limited and used in times of starvation.

This is for YealLift;
Funny how things work out, I just happen to be over on Marksdailyapple and noticed this thread about milk, I think this will open your eyes to relationship between dairy and Paleo.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread27359.html

So, the Paleo diet is about following the diet of our hunter-gather ancestors except where it is convient not to? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

And thus endith the lesson.

You have made up your mind and only have mockery and hate to offer here. Noticed you are unwilling to share your diet, to conveniently avoid any scrutiny? Which is fine.

Speaking of straw man, isn’t the definition of straw man, setting up an untrue statement and then proving it wrong to bolster your own argument? My question to you is, who made you the arbitrator of what is and is not Paleo?

And just so you know the definition of hypocritical is telling someone to do one thing then doing something else yourself. I don’t think you will find anywhere that I, Mark, or anyone here has ever said; to call yourself a follower of the Primal Blueprint, you must never, ever, ever, not even once allow dairy to touch your lips.

Sounds like you have a problem with the word Paleo.

Again, if hunter-gathers didn't have milk, yet the creator of the diet says it's okay because he believes it's okay, isn't that hypocritical? Why aren't grains okay? Sure they weren't eaten by our ancestors but that obviously doesn't seem to the basis for the diet anyway if milk is allowed. Paleo Diet is what our ancestors did and did not eat, or so mark claims.

Realy you should do some research before you come here making accusations. Hunter Gathers didn’t have gas fired stoves either, is it hypocritical if I bake my wooly mammoth in an oven?

This is for YealLift;
Funny how things work out, I just happen to be over on Marksdailyapple and noticed this thread about milk, I think this will open your eyes to relationship between dairy and Paleo.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread27359.html

So, the Paleo diet is about following the diet of our hunter-gather ancestors except where it is convient not to? Sounds pretty hypocritical to me.

And thus endith the lesson.

You have made up your mind and only have mockery and hate to offer here. Noticed you are unwilling to share your diet, to conveniently avoid any scrutiny? Which is fine.

Speaking of straw man, isn’t the definition of straw man, setting up an untrue statement and then proving it wrong to bolster your own argument? My question to you is, who made you the arbitrator of what is and is not Paleo?

And just so you know the definition of hypocritical is telling someone to do one thing then doing something else yourself. I don’t think you will find anywhere that I, Mark, or anyone here has ever said; to call yourself a follower of the Primal Blueprint, you must never, ever, ever, not even once allow dairy to touch your lips.

Sounds like you have a problem with the word Paleo.

Again, if hunter-gathers didn't have milk, yet the creator of the diet says it's okay because he believes it's okay, isn't that hypocritical? Why aren't grains okay? Sure they weren't eaten by our ancestors but that obviously doesn't seem to the basis for the diet anyway if milk is allowed. Paleo Diet is what our ancestors did and did not eat, or so mark claims.

“Paleo Diet is what our ancestors did and did not eat, or so mark claims.”

I don’t recall Mark saying or writing that the Paleo diet is “only” what our ancestors did and did not eat. Below is his health philosophy as stated on his website. Sounds pretty good to me, and I think if you could get over the word Paleo you would like it too.

Really, my health philosophy is surprisingly simple. I follow a diet based on an understanding of evolutionary science. I think it’s more important to eat, move, and live according to how humans are designed and not according to society’s artificial developments of the last 100 years. Fortunately, this regimen is not only incredibly healthy, it’s quite simple.
In a nutshell:
- fresh, organic, unprocessed food – no junk!
- daily activity – whether it’s the gym or a walk along the beach, it all counts
- plenty of quality sleep
- plenty of water, no soda or sweetened drinks
- antioxidants galore – the key to limiting stress
- a good fish-oil supplement
- lots of essential fats, reckless amounts of vegetables, and clean protein
- time for fun – don’t take anything too seriously – ethical behavior – because what goes around comes around
- taking responsibility for yourself and your life – openness to new things and ideas
Mark Sisson

Yes.

A bit of humor,,,,, there is hope for you.

There was a tornado going through my area so I didn't feel like typing out my diet philosophy on my phone.

Again I will ask you,,,,,, and of course this is just a forum there is no rule saying you have to answer questions, but what diet plan do you follow?

-Calories In vs. Calories Out determine weight fluctuation.
-Macronutrition & Muscle Stimulation determines what type of weight is gained or burned.
-Micronutrition determines one's overall health concerning body functions.

-Ideally, eat all whole, unprocessed foods.
-Processed foods are allowed if they fit into your calories, macro and micronutrition.
-Don't eat food that have adverse affects on your body due to insulin resistance, allergies or intolerance.
-The timing and frequency of meals is personal preference.

-Calories, Macronutrition, and Muscle Stimulation are the most important factor for body composition by a large margin.

Cutting out any food that one enjoys from a diet gives power over that food. It is far better to practice portion controlling from a mental standpoint or binging may occur.

What is irrelevant, your diet or the fact that CW (conventional wisdom) is always getting it wrong, and hurting a lot of people in the process? And talk about not contributing anything, how about your link that has next to nothing of substance?

why is it necessary to eliminate dairy and grains in the diets of individuals with no allergy/intolerance or insulin resistance?

Grains contain lectins. Lectins are specialized proteins that, even in small amounts, are harmful. They are very tough to digest (resisting stomach acid and other digestive enzymes) thus they leave the stomach nearly intact. As they pass through the system they damage the cells lining your intestines, leading to small “microperforations” or tiny holes in your intestinal lining. These holes allow any foreign substances to cross into the bloodstream... where they do not belong. your immune system will take notice and attack, which can show as any number of autoimmune disease. THIS RESPONSE HAPPEN IN EVERYONE WHO EATS GRAINS.

Anyone who has only known a grain based diet may not even notice the effects, (but as I said in an earlier post) try it for two weeks and see how you feel, you'll probably feel better in more ways than you thought.

Source?

Hope the twister didn't cause you any harm, got to go for now, will pick this up again tomorrow, big fun.

There was a tornado going through my area so I didn't feel like typing out my diet philosophy on my phone.

Again I will ask you,,,,,, and of course this is just a forum there is no rule saying you have to answer questions, but what diet plan do you follow?

-Calories In vs. Calories Out determine weight fluctuation.
-Macronutrition & Muscle Stimulation determines what type of weight is gained or burned.
-Micronutrition determines one's overall health concerning body functions.

-Ideally, eat all whole, unprocessed foods.
-Processed foods are allowed if they fit into your calories, macro and micronutrition.
-Don't eat food that have adverse affects on your body due to insulin resistance, allergies or intolerance.
-The timing and frequency of meals is personal preference.

-Calories, Macronutrition, and Muscle Stimulation are the most important factor for body composition by a large margin.

Cutting out any food that one enjoys from a diet gives power over that food. It is far better to practice portion controlling from a mental standpoint or binging may occur.

-Ideally, eat all whole, unprocessed foods.
-Processed foods are allowed if they fit into your calories, macro and micronutrition.



Oh the hypocrisy, how dare you, are you the inventor of this hypocritical diet, you should be stoned for such a thing. LOL thanks for the laugh, no really ,what diet do you follow?

Key word: ideally.

I don't completely condemn foods based on their level of processed-ness. Again, giving them that power is far more detrimental than actually enjoying small quantities of the foods you like if they fit into your diet, in my opinion.

What is irrelevant, your diet or the fact that CW (conventional wisdom) is always getting it wrong, and hurting a lot of people in the process? And talk about not contributing anything, how about your link that has next to nothing of substance?

why is it necessary to eliminate dairy and grains in the diets of individuals with no allergy/intolerance or insulin resistance?

Grains contain lectins. Lectins are specialized proteins that, even in small amounts, are harmful. They are very tough to digest (resisting stomach acid and other digestive enzymes) thus they leave the stomach nearly intact. As they pass through the system they damage the cells lining your intestines, leading to small “microperforations” or tiny holes in your intestinal lining. These holes allow any foreign substances to cross into the bloodstream... where they do not belong. your immune system will take notice and attack, which can show as any number of autoimmune disease. THIS RESPONSE HAPPEN IN EVERYONE WHO EATS GRAINS.

Anyone who has only known a grain based diet may not even notice the effects, (but as I said in an earlier post) try it for two weeks and see how you feel, you'll probably feel better in more ways than you thought.

Source?

For your reading pleasure...

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6TCS-4CHRWG0-4&_user=10&_coverDate=09/15/2004&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=gateway&_origin=gateway&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1705532561&_rerunOrigin=scholar.google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=15e4f4dde95f19125a3e6e0019892fbf&searchtype=a
As a result of this interaction a series of harmful local and systemic reactions are triggered placing this class of molecules as antinutritive and/or toxic substances. Locally, they can affect the turnover and loss of gut epithelial cells, damage the luminal membranes of the epithelium, interfere with nutrient digestion and absorption, stimulate shifts in the bacterial flora and modulate the immune state of the digestive tract. Systemically, they can disrupt lipid, carbohydrate and protein metabolism, promote enlargement and/or atrophy of key internal organs and tissues and alter the hormonal and immunological status


http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=880100&fulltextType=RV&fileId=S0007114500000271#
In genetically susceptible individuals, this antigenic stimulation may ultimately result in the expression of overt rheumatoid arthritis (RA) via molecular mimicry, a process whereby foreign peptides, similar in structure to endogenous peptides, may cause antibodies or T-lymphocytes to cross-react with both foreign and endogenous peptides and thereby break immunological tolerance


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1933252/?tool=pmcentrez


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15302522
One of the most nutritionally important features of plant lectins is their ability to survive digestion by the gastrointestinal tract of consumers. This allows the lectins to bind to membrane glycosyl groups of the cells lining the digestive tract. As a result of this interaction a series of harmful local and systemic reactions are triggered placing this class of molecules as antinutritive and/or toxic substances


http://www.totalhealthbreakthroughs.com/2009/07/lectins-a-little-known-trouble-maker/
Lectins are problematic because they are sticky molecules that can bind to the linings of human tissue, especially intestinal cells. In so doing, they disable cells in the GI tract, keeping them from repairing and rebuilding.1 Therefore, lectins can contribute to eroding your intestinal barrier (leaky gut)


http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/04/leptin-and-lectins-part-ii.html
Grains and legumes (beans, soy, peas, peanuts) are rich in some particularly nasty lectins. Especially wheat. Some can degrade the intestinal lining. Some have the ability to pass through the intestinal lining and show up in the bloodstream. Once in the bloodstream, they may bind all sorts of carbohydrate-containing proteins in the body, including the insulin receptor. They could theoretically bind the leptin receptor, which also contains carbohydrate (= it's glycosylated), potentially desensitizing it. This remains to be tested, and to my knowledge is pure speculation at this point. What is not so speculative is that once you're leptin-resistant, you become obese and insulin resistant, and at that point you are intolerant to any type of carbohydrate. This may explain the efficacy of carbohydrate restriction in weight loss and improving general health.


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/08/070801091240.htm
Lectins disable GI tract cells, which are constantly bombarded while digesting food, from repairing tears in cells walls from all the activity. Repair normally occurs in seconds: internal membranes move up to patch the tear, the cell recovers and the one-cell layer lining of the GI tract remains intact.
"If those individual cells cannot repair tears, they die," says Dr. McNeil. "That means you have gaps in the integrity of the surface area of the epithelium and you are exposing the nasty internal world of your GI tract to your blood supply."
The epithelial lining is a continuous, natural barrier between digesting food in the GI tract and the blood supply. When intact, it allows only good stuff like nutrients to pass through.


http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/health/lectins-affect-health-44008.html
Some lectins enter the general circulation of the body and attach themselves to the bladder, nerves, and other tissues, which, in susceptible people, results in an inflammatory response. Moreover, almost everyone has antibodies to some dietary lectins. So many food allergies are actually immune-system reactions to lectins.
Today there’s a trend to eat less-processed grains, which are more nutritious, but unfortunately they contain more lectins


http://www.ei-resource.org/articles/leaky-gut-syndrome-articles/leaky-gut-syndrome:-the-systemic-consequences-of-faulty-digestion/

Actually, I listened to, and corresponded with, Robb Wolf. Perhaps you've heard of him. I do not selectively take in only supporting data. Keep tryin'. It's a little cute, and a little sad.

That means that you purposely omitted the part about the tuber residue, and that there is little or no evidence it was in wide spread use.

Come back when your mommy will let you stay longer.

Actually, I listened to, and corresponded with, Robb Wolf. Perhaps you've heard of him. I do not selectively take in only supporting data. Keep tryin'. It's a little cute, and a little sad.

That means that you purposely omitted the part about the tuber residue, and that there is little or no evidence it was in wide spread use.

Come back when your mommy will let you stay longer.

It means I understand special pleading when I hear it.

And you still have yet to learn the absolute basics of critical thinking.

And you still resort to ad hominem, since you have no rational basis or independent thought.

Actually, I listened to, and corresponded with, Robb Wolf. Perhaps you've heard of him. I do not selectively take in only supporting data. Keep tryin'. It's a little cute, and a little sad.

That means that you purposely omitted the part about the tuber residue, and that there is little or no evidence it was in wide spread use.

Come back when your mommy will let you stay longer.

It means I understand special pleading when I hear it.

And you still have yet to learn the absolute basics of critical thinking.

And you still resort to ad hominem, since you have no rational basis or independent thought.

Yea right, you posted;

A quick correction. There was a discovery a while back that proved that grains were farmed further back than originally thought, including the time period somehow magically deemed perfect by the Paleo crowd.

In a feeble minded attempt to show that the “paleo crowd” is wrong about the timing of when grains came into wide spread use. Then you posted;

The reaction was exactly what you'd expect. Nothing. It's like a cult that refuses to take in any refuting data. Cherry-picking, as you have nailed it in this thread.

In yet another feeble effort to show that the “Paleo crowd” avoided the subject trying to ignore data that does not “fit”

I called you on it, then you said you listen to Robb Wolf, making the implication you had indeed heard of the data that does not support you initial claim. So are you a liar or did you just “forget” to mention that not everyone agrees your evidence is proof positive there was wide spread use of grains before about 10000 years ago.

If you had any interest in getting both sides you would not come on here with your cheap little barbs, and simple minded spin on the facts. If you cannot stand up as a man when you are caught lying about data, then there is no use discussing anything further.

I almost forgot the good advice I was giving years ago, “don’t argue with idiots, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

Maybe I we will converse in the future if you have anything of substance to discuss, Later Jester.