Road to Six Pack ABs - Get Ripped!
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
The author of this blog wishes he had done a clean bulk initially. http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/ectomorph-hardgainer/ForecasterJason wrote: »I've read stories of guys who have basically been able to achieve that. It can be done, but most people around here seem to think bulking/cutting is better than gaining muscle while staying very lean.
It's not just most people around here. It would be nice if the conversation could have people apply personal experience, not just what they hear. Want to try it?
I'm sure there are other examples as well.
Also, in case there was confusion, I didn't literally mean trying to bulk without gaining an ounce of body fat. Take for example a man who is 130 pounds with 8% body fat. That means he would have 10 pounds of fat and 120 pounds of lbm. If he does a clean bulk to 150 pounds and 9% body fat in 12-15 months, he would likely still have visible abs. However, that would mean he would have gained 3-4 pounds of fat (almost 25%).
In contrast, say this person goes to 150 pounds in 3-4 months and ends up at 14% body fat. That would mean over half the weight gained would be fat. So now he's got to work to get his body fat down, but if he had tried to gain the weight over a longer period of time, he wouldn't have to.
You do understand that somatotypes are bullsh*t right? It was a theory suggested by a psychologist in the 1940's and it has been proven wrong over and over.
Ectomorph/hard gainer=Someone who doesn't eat enough for their activity level
Mesomorph=Someone who eats appropriately for their activity level
Endomorph=Someone who eats too much for their activity level.0 -
Those are great gains! I am on a bulk as well. I doubt that my abs will be defined at the end of around 15%. Obviously the references for body fat % I made above are for men.
At least for me, the strategy to 'recomp' or stay as lean as possible while increasing muscle will only come when I am pretty much completely satisfied with my physique. I am not a formal contest body builder so it is just for my own gratification. Anyway, making gains while staying lean is very, very difficult and very slow for anyone who is beyond intermediate. I lift because I enjoy the process even though it can be frustrating at times.
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I've not previously bulked, and I'm not saying that it's easy. I was just using that as a rough example. You could even extend that time period in that example to several years. But for the skinny person who already has abs, it seems ridiculous to me to think that a person like this can't realistically bulk up without gaining a significant amount of body fat. Now for the person who is at 15-20% body fat and trying to bulk, obviously trying to get a six pack would be a lot harder.ForecasterJason wrote: »
The author of this blog wishes he had done a clean bulk initially. http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/ectomorph-hardgainer/ForecasterJason wrote: »I've read stories of guys who have basically been able to achieve that. It can be done, but most people around here seem to think bulking/cutting is better than gaining muscle while staying very lean.
It's not just most people around here. It would be nice if the conversation could have people apply personal experience, not just what they hear. Want to try it?
I'm sure there are other examples as well.
Also, in case there was confusion, I didn't literally mean trying to bulk without gaining an ounce of body fat. Take for example a man who is 130 pounds with 8% body fat. That means he would have 10 pounds of fat and 120 pounds of lbm. If he does a clean bulk to 150 pounds and 9% body fat in 12-15 months, he would likely still have visible abs. However, that would mean he would have gained 3-4 pounds of fat (almost 25%).
In contrast, say this person goes to 150 pounds in 3-4 months and ends up at 14% body fat. That would mean over half the weight gained would be fat. So now he's got to work to get his body fat down, but if he had tried to gain the weight over a longer period of time, he wouldn't have to.
Just consider what you just proposed, going from 130 8% to 150 9% then throwing out a time frame of 12-15 months. How realistic do you think it is for someone to be able to do that? Do you think it's easy? Have you ever attempted a feat like that? Then to think he would still likely have visible abs. I ask again, have you ever done that. Have you ever bulked before?
I realize we've discussed this before, and I purposely did not mention "ectomorph" in my previous post. Although he goes by somatotypes, that's irrelevant in this case. The point is that he did not do a slow bulk and then later regretted not doing so.You do understand that somatotypes are bullsh*t right? It was a theory suggested by a psychologist in the 1940's and it has been proven wrong over and over.
Ectomorph/hard gainer=Someone who doesn't eat enough for their activity level
Mesomorph=Someone who eats appropriately for their activity level
Endomorph=Someone who eats too much for their activity level.
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Man I wish I could put on 20 lbs of lean muscle.0 -
Well, maybe you are right then.@ForecasterJason
The reason it seems ridiculous to you about the concept of how hard it is to do what you are talking about is because reading it and doing it are completely different. When you try it a few times, you outlook changes.
Personally, I am not that far right now from the starting stats I mentioned in that example. For all intents and purposes, I would be considered a complete beginner in consistent weight training. For my entire life I have always been very lean. At this point, I am trying to do a slow bulk. I don't expect to be putting on 20 pounds in the next year at the pace I'm going. But because of my age, muscle/fat ratio, and perhaps other factors, I have been blessed with a lightning fast metabolism right now. I know it will slow down as I get older, and for that reason I am hesitant to slow it down by gaining unnecessary body fat right now. This is why I do believe (for me, at least) gaining muscle on a slow bulk is hard, and why I am setting my expectations low.
But clearly, I seem to be an outlier in this thinking.0 -
@ForecasterJason
I am 37, 6'1" and been lifting for almost 20 yrs now.....
So putting on 20 lbs of lean muscle, is freaking hard.
Trust.
So yeah, reading and doing are two different things
Good luck though
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Thanks. I don't know how thin you were to start, but I do know some skinny people have a lot of potential. I know of a guy running a muscle building page who started at 6'2" 130 pounds and got up to 185 with visible abs within a few years. He obviously had an advantage over the rest of us though given how skinny he was to start.@ForecasterJason
I am 37, 6'1" and been lifting for almost 20 yrs now.....
So putting on 20 lbs of lean muscle, is freaking hard.
Trust.
So yeah, reading and doing are two different things
Good luck though0 -
If you are a total beginner in the lifting sense of the word, you may be able to put on a pretty serious amount of lean muscle in your first year. Learn how to do it right to maximize those gains, trust me!
As MityMax96 said I wish I could put on 20 lbs. I doubt very seriously that I can put on another 20 lbs in the rest of my life! Enjoy the gains while you can, because soon enough you will be lucky to gain 5 lbs of muscle in an entire year and that is doing everything right and working your butt off!0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Thanks. I don't know how thin you were to start, but I do know some skinny people have a lot of potential. I know of a guy running a muscle building page who started at 6'2" 130 pounds and got up to 185 with visible abs within a few years. He obviously had an advantage over the rest of us though given how skinny he was to start.@ForecasterJason
I am 37, 6'1" and been lifting for almost 20 yrs now.....
So putting on 20 lbs of lean muscle, is freaking hard.
Trust.
So yeah, reading and doing are two different things
Good luck though
Out of HS at 6'0" and 135 lbs
Now I will admit that my diet was one place where I was extremely stupid on. For a very long time. If I could redo those early years with what I know now. I think things would be a bit different
So make sure u understand ur nutrition and what u need for ur goals0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Well, maybe you are right then.@ForecasterJason
The reason it seems ridiculous to you about the concept of how hard it is to do what you are talking about is because reading it and doing it are completely different. When you try it a few times, you outlook changes.
Personally, I am not that far right now from the starting stats I mentioned in that example. For all intents and purposes, I would be considered a complete beginner in consistent weight training. For my entire life I have always been very lean. At this point, I am trying to do a slow bulk. I don't expect to be putting on 20 pounds in the next year at the pace I'm going. But because of my age, muscle/fat ratio, and perhaps other factors, I have been blessed with a lightning fast metabolism right now. I know it will slow down as I get older, and for that reason I am hesitant to slow it down by gaining unnecessary body fat right now. This is why I do believe (for me, at least) gaining muscle on a slow bulk is hard, and why I am setting my expectations low.
But clearly, I seem to be an outlier in this thinking.
If your metabolism is fast like you state then it's not not hard to bulk, you just have to ear more and train properly.
.
And that is the fun part. Not as easy as it sounds
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The tricky thing with my metabolism is working with my appetite. I do try to eat a fair amount of healthy foods, although my diet is certainly not entirely clean. My diet already includes some calorie dense foods such as nuts, cheese, and dried fruits.0
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I do eat a good bit of bread and potatoes, although there are a few other carb sources like pasta I could stand to eat more of. The one caveat is that I do have a more sensitive digestive system than normal, so I have to be careful of how much I eat of some sources (like dairy).0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Well, maybe you are right then.@ForecasterJason
The reason it seems ridiculous to you about the concept of how hard it is to do what you are talking about is because reading it and doing it are completely different. When you try it a few times, you outlook changes.
Personally, I am not that far right now from the starting stats I mentioned in that example. For all intents and purposes, I would be considered a complete beginner in consistent weight training. For my entire life I have always been very lean. At this point, I am trying to do a slow bulk. I don't expect to be putting on 20 pounds in the next year at the pace I'm going. But because of my age, muscle/fat ratio, and perhaps other factors, I have been blessed with a lightning fast metabolism right now. I know it will slow down as I get older, and for that reason I am hesitant to slow it down by gaining unnecessary body fat right now. This is why I do believe (for me, at least) gaining muscle on a slow bulk is hard, and why I am setting my expectations low.
But clearly, I seem to be an outlier in this thinking.
If your metabolism is fast like you state then it's not not hard to bulk, you just have to ear more and train properly.
.
And that is the fun part. Not as easy as it sounds
Speak for yourself!
I'm a bottomless pit. Even when I'm stuffed I can keep eating. Granted, I filled my protein and my micros then ate whatever fit my macros (cheesecake, pizza, ice cream, pop tarts, cookies, etc.). 0 -
I remember back in the day when I first started lifting around age 16. Constant exposure to disinformation from muscle magazines from bodybuilding.com from basically every mainstream info source out there. It's a joke. At the same time, it's very lucrative. Ignorant people think it's just a matter of taking a supplement and doing these workouts with volume on par with drug users and they burn out. The first thing to know about 'bodybuilding' for people new to it to save a lot of headache and wise them up: there are two forms of bodybuilding, incl. bodybuilding injecting your butt cheeks and bodybuilding not injecting your butt cheeks. If you're not putting the syringe in your buttock, then you have a natural ceiling with diminishing returns as you get close to it. The simplest one that makes sense: 5'10 at 170 absolutely shredded (5 % bf) and every inch shorter take out 7 lbs. So at 5'8 you have (156). Another formula i've seen is height in cm - 100 gives contest weight in kilos (5% bf). Most of us don't walk around that deprived, so might adjust higher 10-25 lbs to give absolute max at a body fat of 10%. There's no sense imposing a ceiling arbitrarily; just train long enough and you WILL hit that plateau which implements these numbers in your reality.0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »
Well, maybe you are right then.@ForecasterJason
The reason it seems ridiculous to you about the concept of how hard it is to do what you are talking about is because reading it and doing it are completely different. When you try it a few times, you outlook changes.
Personally, I am not that far right now from the starting stats I mentioned in that example. For all intents and purposes, I would be considered a complete beginner in consistent weight training. For my entire life I have always been very lean. At this point, I am trying to do a slow bulk. I don't expect to be putting on 20 pounds in the next year at the pace I'm going. But because of my age, muscle/fat ratio, and perhaps other factors, I have been blessed with a lightning fast metabolism right now. I know it will slow down as I get older, and for that reason I am hesitant to slow it down by gaining unnecessary body fat right now. This is why I do believe (for me, at least) gaining muscle on a slow bulk is hard, and why I am setting my expectations low.
But clearly, I seem to be an outlier in this thinking.
What are your maintenance calories at out of curiosity.?
Already a good amount of advice given in here, but just be realistic about how much you'll be able to pack on as to not set yourself up for discouragement. Its a slow and difficult process, whether you take the bulk/cut cycle approach of long term lean bulk. Path is up to you....
I've been lean bulking since January - 167 lbs or so to about 190 right now. Not sure what my body fat is right now nor do I really care, but I'm still within the "Athletic Range" I'd say... probably mid teens. I may look to mini cut after my next 13 week training cycle and resume lean bulking from there.
The only other advice I can give you is to create a more healthy mindset. Trust in the process, and focus on something other than "aesthetics". It's been mentioned that it is very slow... I used to get very frustrated staring at the mirror and not seeing much change, or seeing some fat gains. It can begin to take a toll on you, mess with your head.
So, I shifted my goals around to more of a performance based approach. I began focusing on driving my strength and performance up with hypertrophy work for assistance. Aesthetics became a byproduct of hard work and progression of something that provide a more immediate feedback - seeing numbers go up on the lifts etc..
This helped me create and maintain a more positive mindset towards the whole process.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Well, maybe you are right then.@ForecasterJason
The reason it seems ridiculous to you about the concept of how hard it is to do what you are talking about is because reading it and doing it are completely different. When you try it a few times, you outlook changes.
Personally, I am not that far right now from the starting stats I mentioned in that example. For all intents and purposes, I would be considered a complete beginner in consistent weight training. For my entire life I have always been very lean. At this point, I am trying to do a slow bulk. I don't expect to be putting on 20 pounds in the next year at the pace I'm going. But because of my age, muscle/fat ratio, and perhaps other factors, I have been blessed with a lightning fast metabolism right now. I know it will slow down as I get older, and for that reason I am hesitant to slow it down by gaining unnecessary body fat right now. This is why I do believe (for me, at least) gaining muscle on a slow bulk is hard, and why I am setting my expectations low.
But clearly, I seem to be an outlier in this thinking.
If your metabolism is fast like you state then it's not not hard to bulk, you just have to ear more and train properly.
.
And that is the fun part. Not as easy as it sounds
Speak for yourself! I'm a bottomless pit. Even when I'm stuffed I can keep eating. Granted, I filled my protein and my micros then ate whatever fit my macros (cheesecake, pizza, ice cream, pop tarts, cookies, etc.).
I get to the point at night I am sitting on my couch stuffed.....it sucks.
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