5:2 Diet
Replies
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
If I recall right (I've read IF books since this one), the Mosley book that spawned 5:2 doesn't say you have to or even should calorie count on your non-fasting days. I believe it suggests you try to follow more of a hunger-directed eating method instead. I know the Varady book does, and her research is what a lot of his method came from.I just started 5:2 this week, but after reading these comments, I am unsure about some things. I've been logging into MFP for almost two months, and when I set my goals, it gave me 1240 cal per day. I have not changed that amount even though I started 5:2. I've been at a calorie deficit on my regular days, (because of exercise) and fasted Wednesday and today, eating only 500 cal. Some of these comments make it sound like what I'm doing is not ideal for this diet method. Thoughts?
In her studies of every other day modified fasting (500 calories), people tended to choose to eat about 110% of TDEE on 'feast days' (without counting calories themselves, it was summed later).
I can see with doing 5:2 some might overeat so much on 5 days to negate their 2 day fast deficits, though. I lose pretty slowly on EOD fasting, so I figure 5:2 might be my maintenance option.
If you're eating 1240ish on 5 days and 500 on 2 days, that's probably too restrictive, depending on your size, etc. But if your deficit is small (as in you're eating more than 1240ish) on feast days and you feel content and not deprived, it's probably fine.
I find it simpler to say- fast days = TDEE*25%
- non-fast days = TDEE*125%
As I'm doing EOD this gives me a 25% deficit. For 5:2, I'd try- fast days TDEE*25%
- non-fast days are TDEE*100%
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PikaKnight wrote: »Original_Beauty wrote: »I'm going to try to do the 5:2 diet for personal reasons. I'm doing it slightly different, I'm fasting from 8pm-12pm, so I'm only missing breakfast and morning snacks. But it will drop my calories from 1600 to 1000. So that alone will help.
Huh? That's not how 5:2 works.
You are still eating the same amount of calories a week. You just have them assigned differently, so to speak.
This^
5:2 is not a method you can use to get a green light on a 1,000 calorie a day diet. Shifting hours to get the lowest calorie goal is not how it works. A 1,000 calorie a day diet is potentially harmful to someone not under a doctor's care or extremely petite....I'm assuming you're not 4'6".
I do use 5:2 ....I eat 500 calories Monday & Thursday. The rest of the week is TDEE (or maintenance). This averages far higher than 1,000 calories a day. As I stated in an earlier post here.....I'm trying to limit lean muscle mass. A 1,000 calorie average makes it tough to support lean muscle.
Amusedmonkey didn't say she is doing a 1k VLCD.If I notice my calorie debt is getting over 1000, I throw in a fast day to correct it back to as close to 0 as I can, or if I feel I have no appetite on a particular day I make it a fast day to bank the calories for later.
She is saying in this EXAMPLE that if she overate by 1000 kcal, she adjusts her intake.
Please read carefully before you slam people down for something that you interpreted incorrectly. And even if she was doing a VLCD, what's it to you? Judging completely unknown people on the internet for lifestyle choices they do for their own bodies...is somewhat futile and unnecessary, in my opinion. As long as someone finds a WOE that suits them, no-one has the right to tell anybody else what, how, when to eat. Unless they are clearly asking for advice, ofc, then SUGGESTIONS are warranted.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »
Just curious...when using fasting days, do you log everything in MFP? If so, how did you setup your daily calories or macros? do you just ignore the settings on fasting days? I've been playing with occasional fasting days for maintenance (based on longevity research), but when I experiment, I try to log to ensure adherence (and to keep the data for evaluation). Just wondering how other MFP users use the tool on protocols that call for fasting days.
I use a little trick for that. I set up my calories as if I'm doing -500 calories a day. I added a category called "carry over" where are calories left (or borrowed) from the previous day go. This gives me a nice and even overall average where I know that I will be losing this much within this time frame no matter how much or little I'm eating without having to do too many calculations.
For example: if my goal was 1500 and I ate 1800 I would enter "300" in the next day "carry over" category, which would recalculate my calories automatically. If my goal was 1500 and I ate 1200, I would put "-300" in the next day's "carry over" category.
If I notice my calorie debt is getting over 1000, I throw in a fast day to correct it back to as close to 0 as I can, or if I feel I have no appetite on a particular day I make it a fast day to bank the calories for later.
Basically it's a hybrid of zig zagging and intermittent fasting without having to deal with rigid pre-set fast days. This makes the process much more flexible for when I have certain food events.
The only downside that I can't know for sure the amount of actual calories eaten on any given day unless I add/subtract the carry-over amount manually.
It really is very comfortable for me, and I tend to know exactly when I'm over or under eating. I just have a feel for my higher and lower days now that if I stop counting calories I would still lose roughly the same amount of weight. When I'm too busy or out of town I do not count, but I like the security of counting so I do it whenever I can.
I think it's a great idea! I'm almost doing the same thing, except instead of doing balance calculations, I track my NET intake in a spreadsheet. So one column is gross intake, another is exercise burn. A minus B = net intake. The daily number MFP gives me. But I've put everything into an excel calendar. Then I just use excel to calculate my daily, weekly and monthly averages. If I feel I overate and feel guilty, I look at my average for the week, and I'm almost always calmed down. By having a clear overview of my average numbers, I KNOW when I have to dial things up or down.
This overview also gives me a good log of what I'm doing that works and what doesn't. Since I'm also logging what kind of exercise, duration and a few words on intensity or milestones.
All that tracking might seem like a lot. But it's really very little work for a huge prize. I'm still on the journey to find my REAL maintenance threshold.
I've suggested these things for the development, but you know...how those things go.
Edit: Oh, btw I loooved the burger gif above, totally cracked me up
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Foamroller wrote: »PikaKnight wrote: »Original_Beauty wrote: »I'm going to try to do the 5:2 diet for personal reasons. I'm doing it slightly different, I'm fasting from 8pm-12pm, so I'm only missing breakfast and morning snacks. But it will drop my calories from 1600 to 1000. So that alone will help.
Huh? That's not how 5:2 works.
You are still eating the same amount of calories a week. You just have them assigned differently, so to speak.
This^
5:2 is not a method you can use to get a green light on a 1,000 calorie a day diet. Shifting hours to get the lowest calorie goal is not how it works. A 1,000 calorie a day diet is potentially harmful to someone not under a doctor's care or extremely petite....I'm assuming you're not 4'6".
I do use 5:2 ....I eat 500 calories Monday & Thursday. The rest of the week is TDEE (or maintenance). This averages far higher than 1,000 calories a day. As I stated in an earlier post here.....I'm trying to limit lean muscle mass. A 1,000 calorie average makes it tough to support lean muscle.
Amusedmonkey didn't say she is doing a 1k VLCD.If I notice my calorie debt is getting over 1000, I throw in a fast day to correct it back to as close to 0 as I can, or if I feel I have no appetite on a particular day I make it a fast day to bank the calories for later.
She is saying in this EXAMPLE that if she overate by 1000 kcal, she adjusts her intake.
Please read carefully before you slam people down for something that you interpreted incorrectly. And even if she was doing a VLCD, what's it to you? Judging completely unknown people on the internet for lifestyle choices they do for their own bodies...is somewhat futile and unnecessary, in my opinion. As long as someone finds a WOE that suits them, no-one has the right to tell anybody else what, how, when to eat. Unless they are clearly asking for advice, ofc, then SUGGESTIONS are warranted.
I think you got your quotes mixed up; it was OriginalBeauty that said she was eating 1000 cal a day (that's the way I read it)
In response to your last paragraph, yeah she can do a VLCD but according to MFP TOS she is not allowed to promote it.
In a larger context, if anyone posts anything on a public forum, they should expect opinions whether they asked for them or not.
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.0 -
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.
Believe it or not, save for adjustment period fast days really have no negative effect on performance. It's just a mild empty stomach feeling, the kind you feel when your meal time is close. With that said, the time you have your meal can also be flexible. Many people, including doctors, skip breakfast and do their work just fine. But if it's an issue, you could have two 250 carefully planned and satiating meals during the time you would be working and not feel hunger at all.
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nikiramirez wrote: »I'd say a longer-term, more balanced approach is a better idea
If anything, pick a meal replacement shake to drink in place of one larger (less healthy) meal. I drink Shakeology once a day and for real, it curbs my sweets cravings PLUS has proteins, amino acids AND super foods. We need to give our bodies what they NEED to be able to reach our fitness and weight goals, not deprive it. (Message me if you want more details on the Shakes)
For any lurkers (and this person above as well) please note that advertising or trying to make sales on the forums or in PMs is actually not allowed. If someone is trying to sell you something in a PM, please let a mod know
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[/quote]
For any lurkers (and this person above as well) please note that advertising or trying to make sales on the forums or in PMs is actually not allowed. If someone is trying to sell you something in a PM, please let a mod know
[/quote]
Sharing ideas and allowing other in on how you achieve successes is allowed. As my friends here, and in other fitness forums already know, I support their goals. Regardless of their chosen program or path. Period. Every person finds their own way, when they are ready, using whatever plans fit their current place in their journey, and no one program or product, or diet, is right for all.0 -
nikiramirez wrote: »Sharing ideas and allowing other in on how you achieve successes is allowed. As my friends here, and in other fitness forums already know, I support their goals. Regardless of their chosen program or path. Period. Every person finds their own way, when they are ready, using whatever plans fit their current place in their journey, and no one program or product, or diet, is right for all.
So you aren't a Beachbody Coach?
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I am AND am also a supportive, caring human being, who loves running, spinning and Yoga. I ride horses and am a Full-time, out of the house professional... So it is actually a tiny part of who I am. Feel free to Add me to your Friends, I'd be happy to get to know you and support your successes!! 0
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nikiramirez wrote: »I am AND am also a supportive, caring human being, who loves running, spinning and Yoga. I ride horses and am a Full-time, out of the house professional... So it is actually a tiny part of who I am. Feel free to Add me to your Friends, I'd be happy to get to know you and support your successes!!
Mmhmm.
Sharing your experiences and "what has worked" for you is fine. But again, advertising (this includes, MSG me about Shakes!) is frowned upon. And anyone that is contacted by beachbody coaches in an attempt to make a sale should report them to a mod.
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Hi im starting the fast diet. I have read its really good for your overall health. Let me know how you get on. I would be interested to find out0
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Gotcha and appreciate your insight, honestly.0
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busybee5064 wrote: »Hi im starting the fast diet. I have read its really good for your overall health. Let me know how you get on. I would be interested to find out
Great group for IF
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/group/49-intermittent-fasting
Link below contains a lot of great info and reading:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/599982/intermittent-fasting-faq#Item_1
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I agree, and I think the studies Varady and others have done have found that fast days have no effect on much, performance-wise. Many people find they feel more alert and light on their feet on day's with low intake, vs. more lethargic on heavier eating days. It's not surgery but I have no trouble teaching college on a fast day.amusedmonkey wrote: »
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.
Believe it or not, save for adjustment period fast days really have no negative effect on performance. It's just a mild empty stomach feeling, the kind you feel when your meal time is close. With that said, the time you have your meal can also be flexible. Many people, including doctors, skip breakfast and do their work just fine. But if it's an issue, you could have two 250 carefully planned and satiating meals during the time you would be working and not feel hunger at all.
I honestly think I'd rather have a fasted surgeon than one that had a Supersize McD meal an hour before, after seeing people who doze off in their offices every afternoon.
I don't mean this to sound dismissive but I think we as a society overestimate our need for frequent meals. It's probably due to the abundance of food we've always had at arm's reach.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
I agree, and I think the studies Varady and others have done have found that fast days have no effect on much, performance-wise. Many people find they feel more alert and light on their feet on day's with low intake, vs. more lethargic on heavier eating days. It's not surgery but I have no trouble teaching college on a fast day.amusedmonkey wrote: »
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.
Believe it or not, save for adjustment period fast days really have no negative effect on performance. It's just a mild empty stomach feeling, the kind you feel when your meal time is close. With that said, the time you have your meal can also be flexible. Many people, including doctors, skip breakfast and do their work just fine. But if it's an issue, you could have two 250 carefully planned and satiating meals during the time you would be working and not feel hunger at all.
I honestly think I'd rather have a fasted surgeon than one that had a Supersize McD meal an hour before, after seeing people who doze off in their offices every afternoon.
I don't mean this to sound dismissive but I think we as a society overestimate our need for frequent meals. It's probably due to the abundance of food we've always had at arm's reach.
Hmm,to me, that empty stomach feeling is a signal that my body needs food. If I'm at home not doing much it's not a big deal to just get through it, but when I'm working and need to make decisions and perform certain skills that impact patients, I'd rather not be in that state.
As there are options between a Supersize meal and not eating, I'd prefer a surgeon that has eaten a balance meal.
Just because someone feels lighter and more alert, doesn't necessarily mean that their performance is actually better.
I'd be interested to see Varady's studies re:performance. Some information my Google "research" turned up (Note: I do realize Ramadan isn't 5:2 and it's not a highly controlled study but the n is large. I don't think there are a lot of controlled human studies done.)
One study:
Abstract
Background: The study examined the effects of dietary fasting on physical balance among young healthy women.
Methods: This study undertaken involving 22 young healthy women (age = 22 ± 1.5) using a within subject
counterbalanced 2-week crossover study design. Participants were asked to refrain from consuming any food or
beverage for 12 hours prior to the fasting trial and to maintain their regular diet for the non-fasting trial. Measures
included: a background questionnaire, 24-hour dietary recall, and functional reach and timed single-limb stances.
Results: Fasting resulted in significant declines in functional reach (p < 0.01), and ability to balance in a single limb
stance with eyes open, on both the dominant and non-dominant legs (p < 0.01 and p < 0.01, respectively), and with
eyes closed on the dominant leg (p < 0.01).
Conclusions: The findings have implications for athletic performance in younger individuals as well as emphasizing
the need for health education for young women to avoid skipping meals.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-9-18.pdf
(Cut and paste from Aragon)
Ramadan is considered by practicing Muslims to be the most important period of religious observation in the Islamic calendar. In its strictest version, a complete food and fluid fast is undergone from sunrise to sunset (12-16 hours). This routine is carried out daily for a month. Unsurprisingly, traffic accidents peak during this time, alongside a reduction in working hours [32]. Traffic injuries are the second major cause of death in the United Arab Emirates, with the bulk of the accidents occurring between 8am and 2pm [33]. Research consistently shows a decrease in daytime alertness, mood, and wakefulness during the fasting month of Ramadan [32-35]. Physical performance – speed, agility, and endurance declined in professional soccer players observing Ramadan [36]. Their performance remained low for two weeks post-Ramadan.
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2011/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting/
Anyway, if it's working for you, that's great. I've always wondered what type of work the people that do 5:2 do. Days that I'm teaching in the classroom I could probably manage with less food, but in the clinical area where there is more physical effort, more information to process and more decisions to make, I don't think it would work well at all.0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »
I agree, and I think the studies Varady and others have done have found that fast days have no effect on much, performance-wise. Many people find they feel more alert and light on their feet on day's with low intake, vs. more lethargic on heavier eating days. It's not surgery but I have no trouble teaching college on a fast day.amusedmonkey wrote: »
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.
Believe it or not, save for adjustment period fast days really have no negative effect on performance. It's just a mild empty stomach feeling, the kind you feel when your meal time is close. With that said, the time you have your meal can also be flexible. Many people, including doctors, skip breakfast and do their work just fine. But if it's an issue, you could have two 250 carefully planned and satiating meals during the time you would be working and not feel hunger at all.
I honestly think I'd rather have a fasted surgeon than one that had a Supersize McD meal an hour before, after seeing people who doze off in their offices every afternoon.
I don't mean this to sound dismissive but I think we as a society overestimate our need for frequent meals. It's probably due to the abundance of food we've always had at arm's reach.
Hmm,to me, that empty stomach feeling is a signal that my body needs food. If I'm at home not doing much it's not a big deal to just get through it, but when I'm working and need to make decisions and perform certain skills that impact patients, I'd rather not be in that state.
As there are options between a Supersize meal and not eating, I'd prefer a surgeon that has eaten a balance meal.
Just because someone feels lighter and more alert, doesn't necessarily mean that their performance is actually better.
I'd be interested to see Varady's studies re:performance. Some information my Google "research" turned up (Note: I do realize Ramadan isn't 5:2 and it's not a highly controlled study but the n is large. I don't think there are a lot of controlled human studies done.)
One study:
Abstract
Background: The study examined the effects of dietary fasting on physical balance among young healthy women.
Methods: This study undertaken involving 22 young healthy women (age = 22 ± 1.5) using a within subject
counterbalanced 2-week crossover study design. Participants were asked to refrain from consuming any food or
beverage for 12 hours prior to the fasting trial and to maintain their regular diet for the non-fasting trial. Measures
included: a background questionnaire, 24-hour dietary recall, and functional reach and timed single-limb stances.
Results: Fasting resulted in significant declines in functional reach (p < 0.01), and ability to balance in a single limb
stance with eyes open, on both the dominant and non-dominant legs (p < 0.01 and p < 0.01, respectively), and with
eyes closed on the dominant leg (p < 0.01).
Conclusions: The findings have implications for athletic performance in younger individuals as well as emphasizing
the need for health education for young women to avoid skipping meals.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-9-18.pdf
(Cut and paste from Aragon)
Ramadan is considered by practicing Muslims to be the most important period of religious observation in the Islamic calendar. In its strictest version, a complete food and fluid fast is undergone from sunrise to sunset (12-16 hours). This routine is carried out daily for a month. Unsurprisingly, traffic accidents peak during this time, alongside a reduction in working hours [32]. Traffic injuries are the second major cause of death in the United Arab Emirates, with the bulk of the accidents occurring between 8am and 2pm [33]. Research consistently shows a decrease in daytime alertness, mood, and wakefulness during the fasting month of Ramadan [32-35]. Physical performance – speed, agility, and endurance declined in professional soccer players observing Ramadan [36]. Their performance remained low for two weeks post-Ramadan.
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2011/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting/
Anyway, if it's working for you, that's great. I've always wondered what type of work the people that do 5:2 do. Days that I'm teaching in the classroom I could probably manage with less food, but in the clinical area where there is more physical effort, more information to process and more decisions to make, I don't think it would work well at all.
My partner and I have a friendly competition with the cryptic crossword every night. I win regularly, but on my fasting days I always win.0 -
fluffyasacat wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »
I agree, and I think the studies Varady and others have done have found that fast days have no effect on much, performance-wise. Many people find they feel more alert and light on their feet on day's with low intake, vs. more lethargic on heavier eating days. It's not surgery but I have no trouble teaching college on a fast day.amusedmonkey wrote: »
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.
Believe it or not, save for adjustment period fast days really have no negative effect on performance. It's just a mild empty stomach feeling, the kind you feel when your meal time is close. With that said, the time you have your meal can also be flexible. Many people, including doctors, skip breakfast and do their work just fine. But if it's an issue, you could have two 250 carefully planned and satiating meals during the time you would be working and not feel hunger at all.
I honestly think I'd rather have a fasted surgeon than one that had a Supersize McD meal an hour before, after seeing people who doze off in their offices every afternoon.
I don't mean this to sound dismissive but I think we as a society overestimate our need for frequent meals. It's probably due to the abundance of food we've always had at arm's reach.
Hmm,to me, that empty stomach feeling is a signal that my body needs food. If I'm at home not doing much it's not a big deal to just get through it, but when I'm working and need to make decisions and perform certain skills that impact patients, I'd rather not be in that state.
As there are options between a Supersize meal and not eating, I'd prefer a surgeon that has eaten a balance meal.
Just because someone feels lighter and more alert, doesn't necessarily mean that their performance is actually better.
I'd be interested to see Varady's studies re:performance. Some information my Google "research" turned up (Note: I do realize Ramadan isn't 5:2 and it's not a highly controlled study but the n is large. I don't think there are a lot of controlled human studies done.)
One study:
Abstract
Background: The study examined the effects of dietary fasting on physical balance among young healthy women.
Methods: This study undertaken involving 22 young healthy women (age = 22 ± 1.5) using a within subject
counterbalanced 2-week crossover study design. Participants were asked to refrain from consuming any food or
beverage for 12 hours prior to the fasting trial and to maintain their regular diet for the non-fasting trial. Measures
included: a background questionnaire, 24-hour dietary recall, and functional reach and timed single-limb stances.
Results: Fasting resulted in significant declines in functional reach (p < 0.01), and ability to balance in a single limb
stance with eyes open, on both the dominant and non-dominant legs (p < 0.01 and p < 0.01, respectively), and with
eyes closed on the dominant leg (p < 0.01).
Conclusions: The findings have implications for athletic performance in younger individuals as well as emphasizing
the need for health education for young women to avoid skipping meals.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-9-18.pdf
(Cut and paste from Aragon)
Ramadan is considered by practicing Muslims to be the most important period of religious observation in the Islamic calendar. In its strictest version, a complete food and fluid fast is undergone from sunrise to sunset (12-16 hours). This routine is carried out daily for a month. Unsurprisingly, traffic accidents peak during this time, alongside a reduction in working hours [32]. Traffic injuries are the second major cause of death in the United Arab Emirates, with the bulk of the accidents occurring between 8am and 2pm [33]. Research consistently shows a decrease in daytime alertness, mood, and wakefulness during the fasting month of Ramadan [32-35]. Physical performance – speed, agility, and endurance declined in professional soccer players observing Ramadan [36]. Their performance remained low for two weeks post-Ramadan.
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2011/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting/
Anyway, if it's working for you, that's great. I've always wondered what type of work the people that do 5:2 do. Days that I'm teaching in the classroom I could probably manage with less food, but in the clinical area where there is more physical effort, more information to process and more decisions to make, I don't think it would work well at all.
My partner and I have a friendly competition with the cryptic crossword every night. I win regularly, but on my fasting days I always win.
Maybe he let's you win because you're cranky ? (jk)
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fluffyasacat wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »
I agree, and I think the studies Varady and others have done have found that fast days have no effect on much, performance-wise. Many people find they feel more alert and light on their feet on day's with low intake, vs. more lethargic on heavier eating days. It's not surgery but I have no trouble teaching college on a fast day.amusedmonkey wrote: »
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.
Believe it or not, save for adjustment period fast days really have no negative effect on performance. It's just a mild empty stomach feeling, the kind you feel when your meal time is close. With that said, the time you have your meal can also be flexible. Many people, including doctors, skip breakfast and do their work just fine. But if it's an issue, you could have two 250 carefully planned and satiating meals during the time you would be working and not feel hunger at all.
I honestly think I'd rather have a fasted surgeon than one that had a Supersize McD meal an hour before, after seeing people who doze off in their offices every afternoon.
I don't mean this to sound dismissive but I think we as a society overestimate our need for frequent meals. It's probably due to the abundance of food we've always had at arm's reach.
Hmm,to me, that empty stomach feeling is a signal that my body needs food. If I'm at home not doing much it's not a big deal to just get through it, but when I'm working and need to make decisions and perform certain skills that impact patients, I'd rather not be in that state.
As there are options between a Supersize meal and not eating, I'd prefer a surgeon that has eaten a balance meal.
Just because someone feels lighter and more alert, doesn't necessarily mean that their performance is actually better.
I'd be interested to see Varady's studies re:performance. Some information my Google "research" turned up (Note: I do realize Ramadan isn't 5:2 and it's not a highly controlled study but the n is large. I don't think there are a lot of controlled human studies done.)
One study:
Abstract
Background: The study examined the effects of dietary fasting on physical balance among young healthy women.
Methods: This study undertaken involving 22 young healthy women (age = 22 ± 1.5) using a within subject
counterbalanced 2-week crossover study design. Participants were asked to refrain from consuming any food or
beverage for 12 hours prior to the fasting trial and to maintain their regular diet for the non-fasting trial. Measures
included: a background questionnaire, 24-hour dietary recall, and functional reach and timed single-limb stances.
Results: Fasting resulted in significant declines in functional reach (p < 0.01), and ability to balance in a single limb
stance with eyes open, on both the dominant and non-dominant legs (p < 0.01 and p < 0.01, respectively), and with
eyes closed on the dominant leg (p < 0.01).
Conclusions: The findings have implications for athletic performance in younger individuals as well as emphasizing
the need for health education for young women to avoid skipping meals.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-9-18.pdf
(Cut and paste from Aragon)
Ramadan is considered by practicing Muslims to be the most important period of religious observation in the Islamic calendar. In its strictest version, a complete food and fluid fast is undergone from sunrise to sunset (12-16 hours). This routine is carried out daily for a month. Unsurprisingly, traffic accidents peak during this time, alongside a reduction in working hours [32]. Traffic injuries are the second major cause of death in the United Arab Emirates, with the bulk of the accidents occurring between 8am and 2pm [33]. Research consistently shows a decrease in daytime alertness, mood, and wakefulness during the fasting month of Ramadan [32-35]. Physical performance – speed, agility, and endurance declined in professional soccer players observing Ramadan [36]. Their performance remained low for two weeks post-Ramadan.
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2011/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting/
Anyway, if it's working for you, that's great. I've always wondered what type of work the people that do 5:2 do. Days that I'm teaching in the classroom I could probably manage with less food, but in the clinical area where there is more physical effort, more information to process and more decisions to make, I don't think it would work well at all.
My partner and I have a friendly competition with the cryptic crossword every night. I win regularly, but on my fasting days I always win.
Maybe he let's you win because you're cranky ? (jk)
I'm sure he would enjoy that explanation.0 -
If your academic library (or Google Scholar) fails to return her studies from a search, I recommend her book, or Michael Mosley's or James Johnson's.I'd be interested to see Varady's studies re:performance.
If I google "fasting and brain function" the whole first page of results seems to be sites claiming fasting improves it. I think a lot of it is surrounding this Mattson's research.
http://hub.jhu.edu/magazine/2012/summer/dont-feed-your-head
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fluffyasacat wrote: »WalkingAlong wrote: »
I agree, and I think the studies Varady and others have done have found that fast days have no effect on much, performance-wise. Many people find they feel more alert and light on their feet on day's with low intake, vs. more lethargic on heavier eating days. It's not surgery but I have no trouble teaching college on a fast day.amusedmonkey wrote: »
I get that some people find 5:2 works for them, but I wonder about their capacity to be fully functioning on fast days. I work in health care and being hungry most of the day would make it more likely for errors to occur. I certainly wouldn't want to have surgery done by a doc that is on his/her fast day.
Believe it or not, save for adjustment period fast days really have no negative effect on performance. It's just a mild empty stomach feeling, the kind you feel when your meal time is close. With that said, the time you have your meal can also be flexible. Many people, including doctors, skip breakfast and do their work just fine. But if it's an issue, you could have two 250 carefully planned and satiating meals during the time you would be working and not feel hunger at all.
I honestly think I'd rather have a fasted surgeon than one that had a Supersize McD meal an hour before, after seeing people who doze off in their offices every afternoon.
I don't mean this to sound dismissive but I think we as a society overestimate our need for frequent meals. It's probably due to the abundance of food we've always had at arm's reach.
Hmm,to me, that empty stomach feeling is a signal that my body needs food. If I'm at home not doing much it's not a big deal to just get through it, but when I'm working and need to make decisions and perform certain skills that impact patients, I'd rather not be in that state.
As there are options between a Supersize meal and not eating, I'd prefer a surgeon that has eaten a balance meal.
Just because someone feels lighter and more alert, doesn't necessarily mean that their performance is actually better.
I'd be interested to see Varady's studies re:performance. Some information my Google "research" turned up (Note: I do realize Ramadan isn't 5:2 and it's not a highly controlled study but the n is large. I don't think there are a lot of controlled human studies done.)
One study:
Abstract
Background: The study examined the effects of dietary fasting on physical balance among young healthy women.
Methods: This study undertaken involving 22 young healthy women (age = 22 ± 1.5) using a within subject
counterbalanced 2-week crossover study design. Participants were asked to refrain from consuming any food or
beverage for 12 hours prior to the fasting trial and to maintain their regular diet for the non-fasting trial. Measures
included: a background questionnaire, 24-hour dietary recall, and functional reach and timed single-limb stances.
Results: Fasting resulted in significant declines in functional reach (p < 0.01), and ability to balance in a single limb
stance with eyes open, on both the dominant and non-dominant legs (p < 0.01 and p < 0.01, respectively), and with
eyes closed on the dominant leg (p < 0.01).
Conclusions: The findings have implications for athletic performance in younger individuals as well as emphasizing
the need for health education for young women to avoid skipping meals.
http://www.biomedcentral.com/content/pdf/1475-2891-9-18.pdf
(Cut and paste from Aragon)
Ramadan is considered by practicing Muslims to be the most important period of religious observation in the Islamic calendar. In its strictest version, a complete food and fluid fast is undergone from sunrise to sunset (12-16 hours). This routine is carried out daily for a month. Unsurprisingly, traffic accidents peak during this time, alongside a reduction in working hours [32]. Traffic injuries are the second major cause of death in the United Arab Emirates, with the bulk of the accidents occurring between 8am and 2pm [33]. Research consistently shows a decrease in daytime alertness, mood, and wakefulness during the fasting month of Ramadan [32-35]. Physical performance – speed, agility, and endurance declined in professional soccer players observing Ramadan [36]. Their performance remained low for two weeks post-Ramadan.
http://www.ironmagazine.com/2011/an-objective-look-at-intermittent-fasting/
Anyway, if it's working for you, that's great. I've always wondered what type of work the people that do 5:2 do. Days that I'm teaching in the classroom I could probably manage with less food, but in the clinical area where there is more physical effort, more information to process and more decisions to make, I don't think it would work well at all.
My partner and I have a friendly competition with the cryptic crossword every night. I win regularly, but on my fasting days I always win.
Maybe he let's you win because you're cranky ? (jk)
In all seriousness though, after 3 months of doing this I don't get cranky. That stopped with the headaches after a week or so. I used to try to spead my calories over lunch and dinner but I'd be too wired to sleep at night without a "proper" dinner in my belly. I learned to eat my calories at night because that works for me - some people find different strategies work for them. I have a very active job and find the days where I have to fast with nothing else to do on the weekend the hardest. Work days are easy.
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