question about soup
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OP what was the original request you went to the doctor with? Help with losing weight? Do you have any medical conditions which may require you to restrict certain things (ie sodium, carbs, dairy, etc)?
LOL at soups with water making the thyroid stop working being the quote of the week. I'm not sure - we have had some doozies this week. Baking Soda is Toxic... How many calories do you burn donating platelets... etc.
Seriously someone should do a David Letterman Top 10 Quotes of the Week from MFP Forums.
You forgot about skinny stealthing.
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OP what was the original request you went to the doctor with? Help with losing weight? Do you have any medical conditions which may require you to restrict certain things (ie sodium, carbs, dairy, etc)?
LOL at soups with water making the thyroid stop working being the quote of the week. I'm not sure - we have had some doozies this week. Baking Soda is Toxic... How many calories do you burn donating platelets... etc.
Seriously someone should do a David Letterman Top 10 Quotes of the Week from MFP Forums.
You forgot about skinny stealthing.
OMG how could I forget skinny stealthing... also "my liver is fabulous" is still my personal favorite this week and I don't even spend that much time on the forums
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I just made a awesome potato and ham soup last night for dinner and tomorrow I am making a awesome vegetable soup. I am on a soup kick. I think you need to revaluate who you are seeing. Make sure that person has an actual degree and is a licensed dietian. So many times, "nutritionists" like to miss label themselves as a dietian when they in fact are not.0
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He even told me to eat nuts 8 almonds or 8 walnut up to 1 pm and this will be one of my meals every 3 hrs... I mean instead of a meal I take 8 almonds0
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Torontonius wrote: »soup you make yourself? awesome.
soup you buy in stores? avoid. too much sodium and all the processing kills any nutrition you would get otherwise.
How does the processing "kill nutrition"? Please be specific.
I'm not a library. Do your own research.0 -
Canning doesn't 'kill nutrition'. Neither does freezing or adding salt or preservatives. In some cases of processing like turning whole wheat into refined white flour, nutrition is removed and then re-added later by 'fortifying'. But canned soups are just canned soup.
Well, if you HAVE TO eat every 3 hours, I could see 8 nuts being a 'meal'. Because that's a lot of meals.He even told me to eat nuts 8 almonds or 8 walnut up to 1 pm and this will be one of my meals every 3 hrs... I mean instead of a meal I take 8 almonds
Your 'dietician' sounds like a personal trainer. Did you find him at a gym? Did he give you workout advice?
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no workouts... he just gives this diet0
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Torontonius wrote: »Torontonius wrote: »soup you make yourself? awesome.
soup you buy in stores? avoid. too much sodium and all the processing kills any nutrition you would get otherwise.
How does the processing "kill nutrition"? Please be specific.
I'm not a library. Do your own research.
You post it, you defend it. That's how it works around here.0 -
Torontonius wrote: »Torontonius wrote: »soup you make yourself? awesome.
soup you buy in stores? avoid. too much sodium and all the processing kills any nutrition you would get otherwise.
How does the processing "kill nutrition"? Please be specific.
I'm not a library. Do your own research.
I did the research as you said and you're 100% wrong. Next
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I REALLY hope this is a troll post and there isn't really a nutritionist being paid to tell people this stuff. I think this this claim is just as bad, if not worse, than the toxic baking soda chicken.0
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im not a troll... i don't have time to waste0
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Torontonius wrote: »Torontonius wrote: »soup you make yourself? awesome.
soup you buy in stores? avoid. too much sodium and all the processing kills any nutrition you would get otherwise.
How does the processing "kill nutrition"? Please be specific.
I'm not a library. Do your own research.
Translated....
I don't know and have nothing to back it up.0 -
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all soup is is exactly what your "nutritionist" is making you eat, except in water.... how does water--something we NEED--hurt you?
^ this. We roast or smoke a chicken a week and make ~ a gallon of stock with the carcass. Every week. I eat soup almost every day. However, I do avoid soups in restaurants. Partly because I think mine taste better ;-o but also because you have no idea what's going in the pot in the kitchen. It can be extraordinarily nutritious when you make it at home and deceptively caloric in a restaurant.0 -
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Torontonius wrote: »Torontonius wrote: »soup you make yourself? awesome.
soup you buy in stores? avoid. too much sodium and all the processing kills any nutrition you would get otherwise.
How does the processing "kill nutrition"? Please be specific.
I'm not a library. Do your own research.
So, you're not a library, but I'm pretty sure you're well stocked up on baseless assertions if we need any though eh?0 -
Most commercial soup bases and sauces contain artificial meat-like flavors that mimic those we used to get from natural, gelatin-rich broth. These kinds of short cuts mean that consumers are shortchanged. When the homemade stocks were pushed out by the cheap substitutes, an important source of minerals disappeared from the American diet. The thickening effects of gelatin could be mimicked with emulsifiers, but, of course, the health benefits were lost. Gelatin is a very healthy thing to have in your diet. It helps you digest proteins properly and is supportive of digestive health overall.
Research on gelatin and natural broths came to an end in the 1950s when food companies discovered how to induce maillard reactions–the process of creating flavor compounds by mixing reduced sugars and amino acids under increased temperatures–and produce meat-like flavors in the laboratory. In a General Foods Company report issued in 1947, chemists predicted that almost all natural flavors would soon be chemically synthesized.15 Following the Second World War, American food companies discovered monosodium glutamate, a food ingredient the Japanese had invented in 1908 to enhance food flavors, including meat-like flavors. Humans actually have receptors on the tongue for glutamate—it is the protein in food that the human body recognizes as meat–but the glutamate in MSG has a different configuration, which cannot be assimilated properly by the body. Any protein can be hydrolyzed (broken down into its component amino acids) to produce a base containing MSG. When the industry learned how to synthesize the flavor of meat in the laboratory, using inexpensive proteins from grains and legumes, the door was opened to a flood of new products, including boullion cubes, dehydrated soup mixes, sauce mixes, TV dinners, and condiments with a meaty taste.
The fast food industry could not exist without MSG and artificial meat flavors, which beguile the consumer into eating bland and tasteless food. The sauces in many commercially processed foods contain MSG, water, thickeners, emulsifiers and caramel coloring. Your tongue is tricked into thinking that you are consuming something nutritious, when in fact it is getting nothing at all except some very toxic substances. Even dressings, Worcestershire sauce, rice mixes, flavored tofu, and many meat products have MSG in them. Almost all canned soups and stews contain MSG, and the “hydrolyzed protein” bases often contain MSG in very large amounts.
So-called homemade soups in most restaurants are usually made by mixing water with a powdered soup base made of hydrolyzed protein and artificial flavors, and then adding chopped vegetables and other ingredients. Even things like lobster bisque and fish sauces in most seafood restaurants are prepared using these powdered bases full of artificial flavors.
The industry even thinks it is too costly to just use a little onion and garlic for flavoring–they use artificial garlic and onion flavors instead. It’s all profit based with no thought for the health of the consumer.
Unfortunately, most of the processed vegetarian foods are loaded with these flavorings, as well. The list of ingredients in vegetarian hamburgers, hot dogs, bacon, baloney, etc., may include hydrolyzed protein and “natural” flavors, all sources of MSG. Soy foods are loaded with MSG.
Food manufacturers get around the labeling requirements by putting MSG in the spice mixes; if the mix is less than fifty percent MSG, they don’t have to indicate MSG on the label. You may have noticed that the phrase “No MSG” has actually disappeared. The industry doesn’t use it anymore because they found out that there was MSG in all the spice mixes; even Bragg’s amino acids had to take “No MSG” off the label.
http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/dirty-secrets-of-the-food-processing-industry/
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You've snipped that from Weston A Price without attribution. Naughty, and an opinion piece. They discovered how to make flavours. How does this support your claim that it "strips the nutrition out"?Torontonius wrote: »Most commercial soup bases and sauces contain artificial meat-like flavors that mimic those we used to get from natural, gelatin-rich broth...snip unattributed quote.
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You've snipped that from Weston A Price without attribution. Naughty, and an opinion piece. They discovered how to make flavours. How does this support your claim that it "strips the nutrition out"?Torontonius wrote: »Most commercial soup bases and sauces contain artificial meat-like flavors that mimic those we used to get from natural, gelatin-rich broth...snip unattributed quote.
good point, I guess that was a non-sequitur - but relevant to the original question
as for "killing nutrients", cooking enhances certain nutrients' bioavailability (beta carotene and lycopene being two prominent examples) and diminishes others (B-complex, C and other water-soluble vitamins)
either way, anything you buy that's made in a factory will not be as nutritious as something you make yourself with fresh vegetables
i thought that was kind of obvious, but there's a contingent of users here who seem to do nothing more than post "where's the proof". I hope you are all atheists, otherwise you're huge hypocrites.
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Torontonius wrote: »
You've snipped that from Weston A Price without attribution. Naughty, and an opinion piece. They discovered how to make flavours. How does this support your claim that it "strips the nutrition out"?Torontonius wrote: »Most commercial soup bases and sauces contain artificial meat-like flavors that mimic those we used to get from natural, gelatin-rich broth...snip unattributed quote.
good point, I guess that was a non-sequitur - but relevant to the original question
as for "killing nutrients", cooking enhances certain nutrients' bioavailability (beta carotene and lycopene being two prominent examples) and diminishes others (B-complex, C and other water-soluble vitamins)
either way, anything you buy that's made in a factory will not be as nutritious as something you make yourself with fresh vegetables
i thought that was kind of obvious, but there's a contingent of users here who seem to do nothing more than post "where's the proof". I hope you are all atheists, otherwise you're huge hypocrites.
Nice false dichotomy, champ.
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Don't get me wrong, I make all my own soups and stocks so that I can control the ingredients. Some vegetables (like tomatoes) will change the availablity of some nutrients but that will happen whether they are cooked in my pot or in the can at the factory. That's also why I eat raw tomatoes and cooked tomatoes.Torontonius wrote: »
You've snipped that from Weston A Price without attribution. Naughty, and an opinion piece. They discovered how to make flavours. How does this support your claim that it "strips the nutrition out"?Torontonius wrote: »Most commercial soup bases and sauces contain artificial meat-like flavors that mimic those we used to get from natural, gelatin-rich broth...snip unattributed quote.
good point, I guess that was a non-sequitur - but relevant to the original question
as for "killing nutrients", cooking enhances certain nutrients' bioavailability (beta carotene and lycopene being two prominent examples) and diminishes others (B-complex, C and other water-soluble vitamins)
either way, anything you buy that's made in a factory will not be as nutritious as something you make yourself with fresh vegetables
i thought that was kind of obvious, but there's a contingent of users here who seem to do nothing more than post "where's the proof". I hope you are all atheists, otherwise you're huge hypocrites.
I grow my own veggies, but the ones in the Ontario supermarket (for instance) may come from Mexico and be more nutrient depleted by the time you get them than the flash frozen ones used in the canned soup.
I don't think you have proven your point.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »I will never understand why people pay money to see PTs, nutritionists, dietitians, etc...but never ask questions. I just don't get it. When my PT tells me to do something that I'm unfamiliar with and/or unknowledgable about or whatever...I usually ask something like, "ok...but what is that supposed to do"..."why exactly am I doing X?" Stuff like that.
Bingo!0 -
Don't get me wrong, I make all my own soups and stocks so that I can control the ingredients. Some vegetables (like tomatoes) will change the availablity of some nutrients but that will happen whether they are cooked in my pot or in the can at the factory. That's also why I eat raw tomatoes and cooked tomatoes.
I grow my own veggies, but the ones in the Ontario supermarket (for instance) may come from Mexico and be more nutrient depleted by the time you get them than the flash frozen ones used in the canned soup.
I don't think you have proven your point.
That's actually a *very* good point, and a point of concern. I notice a big difference when I can buy vegetables in-season, eg: locally grown.
That said, you're kind of making my point. If the vegetables shipped from Mexico can become "nutrient depleted" (note, I won't ask you to prove how!) why is it a stretch to believe that vegetables going to a factory from god-knows-where aren't also depleted, and then further depleted by processing, sitting in inventory, etc and so on.
The ONLY point I was trying to make is that you're almost always better off buying and eating fresh food vs. stuff you buy in a can.
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Torontonius wrote: »That said, you're kind of making my point. If the vegetables shipped from Mexico can become "nutrient depleted" (note, I won't ask you to prove how!) why is it a stretch to believe that vegetables going to a factory from god-knows-where aren't also depleted, and then further depleted by processing, sitting in inventory, etc and so on.
The ONLY point I was trying to make is that you're almost always better off buying and eating fresh food vs. stuff you buy in a can.
There is a big difference here; he didn't make your point at all.
Vegetables in a chain grocery store are not purchased on the basis of nutritional value or flavor, but instead these varietals are selected on the basis of shelf stability. Tomatoes for example are picked green and are expected to ripen during transport so that they show up in the grocery store firm and red and can sit on the shelf for the longest amount of time possible before spoiling, to increase the likelihood of selling each individual fruit and thus to make a profit. The grocery story doesn't care if your tomatoes are flavorless or your bananas are starchy because their key motivation is decreasing wastage.
A food manufacturer on the other hand is not selling you whole food. Soup Company doesn't care if the tomatoes going into their tomato soup look pristine and perfect, since you're never going to see it. They also don't care about shelf stability since the items will be cooked the day they arrive at the factory. What they DO care about is getting the most flavor out of the product, since people will buy your processed foods over the competitor's processed foods for TASTE first and foremost. It just so happens that foods taste best when they are fully ripened, which also usually corresponds to when they have the most nutrients in them. Thus the company buying products based on flavor are usually also (inadvertently) providing the most nutrition.0 -
Torontonius wrote: »That said, you're kind of making my point. If the vegetables shipped from Mexico can become "nutrient depleted" (note, I won't ask you to prove how!) why is it a stretch to believe that vegetables going to a factory from god-knows-where aren't also depleted, and then further depleted by processing, sitting in inventory, etc and so on.
The ONLY point I was trying to make is that you're almost always better off buying and eating fresh food vs. stuff you buy in a can.
There is a big difference here; he didn't make your point at all.
Vegetables in a chain grocery store are not purchased on the basis of nutritional value or flavor, but instead these varietals are selected on the basis of shelf stability. Tomatoes for example are picked green and are expected to ripen during transport so that they show up in the grocery store firm and red and can sit on the shelf for the longest amount of time possible before spoiling, to increase the likelihood of selling each individual fruit and thus to make a profit. The grocery story doesn't care if your tomatoes are flavorless or your bananas are starchy because their key motivation is decreasing wastage.
A food manufacturer on the other hand is not selling you whole food. Soup Company doesn't care if the tomatoes going into their tomato soup look pristine and perfect, since you're never going to see it. They also don't care about shelf stability since the items will be cooked the day they arrive at the factory. What they DO care about is getting the most flavor out of the product, since people will buy your processed foods over the competitor's processed foods for TASTE first and foremost. It just so happens that foods taste best when they are fully ripened, which also usually corresponds to when they have the most nutrients in them. Thus the company buying products based on flavor are usually also (inadvertently) providing the most nutrition.
If I was like some of the people here I would say "Where's your evidence?"
but, because I have a brain and I see the logic in your argument, I'll instead say "I've never thought of that, that makes sense - assuming that the processing doesn't hurt the nutritional value."
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Your underlying point of course - that people should prepare more of their own food rather than buy processed everything - is still a valid point. The sodium in processed soups is crazy high most of the time.
In fact I suspect that the original poster's trainer was advising against soup because the sodium causes water retention, which will in turn cause his clients to weigh in and demand an explanation for why they are not losing weight. On the other hand, soups ARE generally low calorie, even in the commercial preparations. Two cups of store bought squash soup is usually about 200 calories total for example. Personally, I make soups frequently at home (from scratch, because as you said the gelatin really makes a big difference) and I just remind myself that even if it is high sodium (I put lots of salt in my soups, admittedly) it doesn't mean you've gained fat, just water.0 -
If I do the processing myself, does it kill the nutrition?Torontonius wrote: »Torontonius wrote: »soup you make yourself? awesome.
soup you buy in stores? avoid. too much sodium and all the processing kills any nutrition you would get otherwise.
How does the processing "kill nutrition"? Please be specific.
I'm not a library. Do your own research.
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If I do the processing myself, does it kill the nutrition?Torontonius wrote: »Torontonius wrote: »soup you make yourself? awesome.
soup you buy in stores? avoid. too much sodium and all the processing kills any nutrition you would get otherwise.
How does the processing "kill nutrition"? Please be specific.
I'm not a library. Do your own research.
No.
But once you start pouring that homemade soup into a can, an alarm goes off at Nutrition Fairy Headquarters and a Nutrition Fairy flies out to steal all the nutrition before the can is sealed.
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