Guide to making claims based on research
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I read once that KFC changed their name because they don't use chicken anymore.0
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I didn't read further in the article, the column next to it had an update on batboy, so I read that instead.0
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Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Charlottesometimes23 wrote: »I'm still trying to get my head around the American system. I have a dream of doing a little stint in Hawaii (who doesn't?).
The problem is there's no clear cut American system. There's a standard way that tenure track works at major universities and academically-oriented colleges, but there are a huge variety of other kinds of institutions and part-time/non-tenure-track jobs and so on.
I know a few people who are kind of permanently ABD but still teach at local colleges/universities. Just not the particular local universities that I considered attending.
At other schools (like professional programs) the requirements are different still.
Ah, ok. We mostly have universities and tafe colleges. The tafe colleges are for trades. There are private colleges, but as far as I'm aware, students can't gain more than a diploma without spending some time at university.
There really aren't a huge amount of options for PhDs here. Most of my fellow candidates did post docs in the USA and many years later, they're still there. I stepped into a 50% tenured AL job which was extremely lucky! I was contract for 1 year and it was a baptism of fire with the amount of teaching hours I had (along with research expectations), but I survived and was moved to permanent. I've since moved up the ranks and now have a fair load. I was extremely fortunate though.
I only just learned, due to your post and wiki, that the term college is used differently in our countries. In the US a college may be part of an overall university (college of arts and sciences, say) or, as I meant it, a stand alone school that generally serves undergrads only and doesn't have various grad or professional programs. Many excellent tenure-track jobs are at colleges and many will pretty much only hire PhDs, especially since they don't have grad students doing the teaching, but I suppose some don't like those jobs as they are more teaching focused which probably makes fitting in the research and publications more challenging.
But I suppose we digress. ;-)0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I just always assumed it was fairly standard for most adults to do whatever the hell they want.
heh heh good one.lemurcat12 wrote: »To suggest that somehow the commercialized versions of food are more overwhelmingly palatable and impossible to turn down--addictive--as that baking soda woman and many others at MFP do seems to me insane. KFC is the most delicious chicken ever and therefore food companies force us to eat it, really? I mean, I might expect that claim from Colonel Sanders, but no one else.
AAAAAANnnnnnnddddddd, now I'm sucked back in.
It's me! It's me!
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I am suggesting that some foods for some people are impossible to turn down (with the caveat that it's not just commercialized foods -- home cooked foods can also be a trigger).
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I am a binge eater. When I eat certain foods, I CANNOT stop eating them. It's got nothing to do with hunger or with satiety or with eating until I'm stuffed -- I never get stuffed during a binge. I never say "I can't eat another bite" during a binge. I can eat pounds of food during a binge. I will eat until the food is all gone, and if my body isn't over the binge, then I will get in my car, go to the grocery store (or two or three) and buy more and eat it until I am totally anesthetized. If I don't give in to the binge, then I'm moody, depressed, and vicious until I do give in.
I know hundreds of people just like me. I can go to any city and find meetings full of people just like me. I've had people on this very website PM me and thank me for talking about this because they are too afraid to bring it up in the forums because they don't want to be made fun of.
Do I have cites to prove the existence of food addiction? No. I don't know of any studies that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that food addiction exists.
However, I do have a couple of cites to people who are attempting to understand the nature of binging and the possibility of food addiction.
There's Kay SHeppard, who has written several books about food addiction and how to overcome it.
There's the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity, which had a Food Addiction conference to discuss the issue of food addiction and also has a checklist for people who might suffer from binge eating.
There's a bunch of meetings for people who think they might have food addiction.
Here's a paper summarizing the findings from a food addiction symposium.
And etc.
You are certainly welcome to refute every one of these sources, (let me help! Here's a whole bunch of links to studies that suggest food addiction is in fact not real).
In my experience, my binging was caused by certain foods. I stopped eating those foods 10 years ago, and I no longer binge. I also no longer have food cravings. I get hungry, I eat. I don't sit around thinking "I really want to eat X" or "I'm really craving Y." Other people have also experience binging and have cut out their trigger food, to find that they don't binge or crave any more.
Of course personal anecdote does not equal double-blind peer reviewed research studies and of course correlation does not always equal causation.
But double-blind peer reviewed research studies exist because of personal anecdote and observed correlations.
People conduct research because they observe something and want to understand the science and causation behind it. Someone's personal experience is the foundation upon which most of our scientific knowledge is based. I am communicating with you right now because Ben Franklin tied a key to a kite.
And in the final instance, science or no, food addiction or no, I no longer binge. What I did worked for me and is sustainable for me.
So if someone comes into these forums and asks "I binge on certain foods. Do you think it could be the food?" I will 100% say "Yes, it could be the food. I used to binge, and when I cut out my trigger foods, I stopped binging and lost 75 pounds."
For a binger, that information is much more helpful than "it's not the food, it's you. you lack will power."
Well, no *kitten*. That's what a binge is -- the total lack of willpower. Where do they go from there? My solution -- "This is what worked for me" -- seems to be a tad more helpful than merely telling the binger he or she is insane to believe the food might be the problem.
eta: and I totally get what the "insane" bit is getting at -- that trying to hang onto a magical talisman instead of understanding science is what is insane. But telling someone to "just eat the food in moderation" is also insane when they are telling you they can't eat the food in moderation.
This has nothing whatsoever to do with my post.
Of course I believe in binge eating and that its a problem--although not that it has anything to do with addictive qualities of the foods themselves. If you want to say binge eating is akin to a psychological addiction I don't really disagree (pretty sure there's a recent thread where I discussed this along with some others). If you want to claim flour is addictive I think you are wrong, but I said nothing on the topic here and there's certainly some other thread where that's being discussed.
None of that relates to my point here which was that KFC is not magically (or technologically) more tasty than home cooked food or therefore more impossible to resist.
That's just goofy.0 -
I will say, though I'm not a huge fried chicken fan, I've never seen the wet-fried texture of the KFC batter replicated in any home cooked fried chicken I've ever had.
But the real KFC winner is the awesome grilled chicken. My damn I'm surprised I rarely have it because the stuff is like crack.0 -
You know, I noticed, I haven't seen many flags being left lately.
Has the passive aggressive storm passed?-1 -
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diannethegeek wrote: »
and here I thought folks leveled up and got that iron skin +2 bonus.0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »I know. But you do read some of that 'engineered to rope us in' stuff in legitimate sources, too. I think Michael Pollan goes there.
I don't think it 'addicts us' but I do think companies make food to sell the most food at the highest profit. That means adding salt, sugar and fat because they improve palatability and they're cheap-- win/win. Except for health. Not that I see anything wrong with salt, sugar and fat. But if all the food is really tasty, cheap and high calorie, it's enticing and easy to overeat.
We may not see eye to eye on many posts/threads, but I do agree with this. Its business, and food companies are going to make food that is highly palatable and quick and convenient - and many of these foods are calorie dense (and not so nutrient dense).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25398751
^^no claims or conclusions, just a recognition it existing and the need for further study.
There are a lot more, but just posting this one as its new and I saw it today and remembered your post.
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I think I actually agree with you on probably 95% of stuff. I just have to focus on the negatives. LOL
I don't think there was a shrimp truck in Haleiwa when I was there in the 80s. We used to go to the sub shop on the corner, next to she surf shop. Ron Jon, maybe? We'd pick up Maui onion potato chips from the grocer and subs and go to Sunset Beach, usually. And play Yahtzee.
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Iwishyouwell wrote: »I will say, though I'm not a huge fried chicken fan, I've never seen the wet-fried texture of the KFC batter replicated in any home cooked fried chicken I've ever had.
But the real KFC winner is the awesome grilled chicken. My damn I'm surprised I rarely have it because the stuff is like crack.
Seriously. Two weeks ago I actually asked on my newsfeed if anyone knew how to season chicken breast so it would taste like Kentucky grilled chicken. Someone did recommend I google kfc copy cat recipe. There's like a dozen spices, and at least one guy was selling his special copy cat blend. I don't think I could replicate the taste at all and while I make a decent fried chicken, it ain't no KFC
Thankfully I'm not a very patient person and the kfc drive through here is extremely slow.
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Iwishyouwell wrote: »I will say, though I'm not a huge fried chicken fan, I've never seen the wet-fried texture of the KFC batter replicated in any home cooked fried chicken I've ever had.
But the real KFC winner is the awesome grilled chicken. My damn I'm surprised I rarely have it because the stuff is like crack.
Try adding baking soda. I hear it's the magic ingredient.
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I guess I'm the only person who doesn't like KFC's original recipe.
Too soggy.
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I'd much rather have my mom's fried chicken if I was doing fried chicken.0
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DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »So if someone comes into these forums and asks "I binge on certain foods. Do you think it could be the food?" I will 100% say "Yes, it could be the food. I used to binge, and when I cut out my trigger foods, I stopped binging and lost 75 pounds."
For a binger, that information is much more helpful than "it's not the food, it's you. you lack will power."
***
eta: and I totally get what the "insane" bit is getting at -- that trying to hang onto a magical talisman instead of understanding science is what is insane. But telling someone to "just eat the food in moderation" is also insane when they are telling you they can't eat the food in moderation.
Because I was dismissive before (in part because I was on an iPad) and because I have time before my run and am cooking only a side dish and dessert today (which I plan to make as palatable as possible!), I'll be a bit more specific in my response and how you misunderstood my post (although seriously, reread it).
(1) I said nothing about eating in moderation (including KFC). (I don't eat KFC, so why would I tell someone else to? I just think the idea that it's "addictive" and some other fried chicken isn't is bizarre.) I always do say that if you can't do it, or can't do it now, try cutting it out, especially if someone is interested in trying that. I think it's psychological, not physical, but of course many people have trigger foods, even people who don't actually binge. (I don't think the baking soda woman was talking about binging, she was talking about regular overeating or overconsumption of calories, which doesn't require a binging disorder, obviously.)
(2) The only thing I said about "addiction" was that it's insane to claim that you can't stop eating "processed food" (which was what the underlying discussion was about) because it's extra special delicious due to secret ingredients put in it. That sounds like an ad for the food, of course, but the reason people overeat KFC (or McD or whatever) is not because "unnatural" ingredients make it more delicious than food has ever been, which was the claim in the thread we are talking about. Indeed, if you believe in an actual addiction model here, you should disagree with that too, as rather obviously addiction isn't about something being extra delicious compared to everything else. Often people who go on about "processed foods" like baking soda woman did seem to think that they are all super tasty and home cooked foods aren't tempting in that way, which just makes me think they've never had properly prepared home cooked foods or been to a really good restaurant.
(3) I suspect for most people who overeat for reasons unrelated to actual physical hunger that simply avoid specific foods isn't the best longterm solution, but dealing with the underlying issues should be part of it. I don't binge, but I was a big emotional eater for a time, and not using food for that was more important for me than avoiding certain foods. However, I think strategies are probably going to differ from person to person, so I'm not wedded to this being the case for everyone and am glad your strategies have worked for you (as I said when we talked about this before in a different thread).
Anyway, Happy Thanksgiving to all in the US!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »(2) The only thing I said about "addiction" was that it's insane to claim that you can't stop eating "processed food" (which was what the underlying discussion was about) because it's extra special delicious due to secret ingredients put in it. That sounds like an ad for the food, of course, but the reason people overeat KFC (or McD or whatever) is not because "unnatural" ingredients make it more delicious than food has ever been, which was the claim in the thread we are talking about. Indeed, if you believe in an actual addiction model here, you should disagree with that too, as rather obviously addiction isn't about something being extra delicious compared to everything else. Often people who go on about "processed foods" like baking soda woman did seem to think that they are all super tasty and home cooked foods aren't tempting in that way, which just makes me think they've never had properly prepared home cooked foods or been to a really good restaurant.
Ding, ding, ding!! I'm not trying to get into a ~1000 post thread but I will say that my cooking personally typically doesn't taste as good or super tempting as what I could get at a restaurant or when some of my family cooks. That's why it's so depressing when I eat at a restaurant and could actually make the item better. That's just, it ain't right yall! I do have the same tendency to overeat whether I'm at a restaurant or visiting family who have made all my favorite things
Also when I'm cooking I go easy on the oil, etc. When restaurants or other people cook they're going for flavor, damn the calories (actually they don't give it a first or second thought). If the end result is delicious, I'm inhaling it.
Note that my comments are restricted to reasons why one might choose to eat inappropriate quantities of the described foods. I do not really have an opinion on addiction / unnatural / processed or not0 -
DeirdreWoodwardSanders wrote: »I just always assumed it was fairly standard for most adults to do whatever the hell they want.
heh heh good one.lemurcat12 wrote: »To suggest that somehow the commercialized versions of food are more overwhelmingly palatable and impossible to turn down--addictive--as that baking soda woman and many others at MFP do seems to me insane. KFC is the most delicious chicken ever and therefore food companies force us to eat it, really? I mean, I might expect that claim from Colonel Sanders, but no one else.
AAAAAANnnnnnnddddddd, now I'm sucked back in.
It's me! It's me!
======>>>>>>>
I am suggesting that some foods for some people are impossible to turn down (with the caveat that it's not just commercialized foods -- home cooked foods can also be a trigger).
<<<<<<<<<==============
I am a binge eater. When I eat certain foods, I CANNOT stop eating them. It's got nothing to do with hunger or with satiety or with eating until I'm stuffed -- I never get stuffed during a binge. I never say "I can't eat another bite" during a binge. I can eat pounds of food during a binge. I will eat until the food is all gone, and if my body isn't over the binge, then I will get in my car, go to the grocery store (or two or three) and buy more and eat it until I am totally anesthetized. If I don't give in to the binge, then I'm moody, depressed, and vicious until I do give in.
I know hundreds of people just like me. I can go to any city and find meetings full of people just like me. I've had people on this very website PM me and thank me for talking about this because they are too afraid to bring it up in the forums because they don't want to be made fun of.
Do I have cites to prove the existence of food addiction? No. I don't know of any studies that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that food addiction exists.
However, I do have a couple of cites to people who are attempting to understand the nature of binging and the possibility of food addiction.
There's Kay SHeppard, who has written several books about food addiction and how to overcome it.
There's the Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity, which had a Food Addiction conference to discuss the issue of food addiction and also has a checklist for people who might suffer from binge eating.
There's a bunch of meetings for people who think they might have food addiction.
Here's a paper summarizing the findings from a food addiction symposium.
And etc.
You are certainly welcome to refute every one of these sources, (let me help! Here's a whole bunch of links to studies that suggest food addiction is in fact not real).
In my experience, my binging was caused by certain foods. I stopped eating those foods 10 years ago, and I no longer binge. I also no longer have food cravings. I get hungry, I eat. I don't sit around thinking "I really want to eat X" or "I'm really craving Y." Other people have also experience binging and have cut out their trigger food, to find that they don't binge or crave any more.
Of course personal anecdote does not equal double-blind peer reviewed research studies and of course correlation does not always equal causation.
But double-blind peer reviewed research studies exist because of personal anecdote and observed correlations.
People conduct research because they observe something and want to understand the science and causation behind it. Someone's personal experience is the foundation upon which most of our scientific knowledge is based. I am communicating with you right now because Ben Franklin tied a key to a kite.
And in the final instance, science or no, food addiction or no, I no longer binge. What I did worked for me and is sustainable for me.
So if someone comes into these forums and asks "I binge on certain foods. Do you think it could be the food?" I will 100% say "Yes, it could be the food. I used to binge, and when I cut out my trigger foods, I stopped binging and lost 75 pounds."
For a binger, that information is much more helpful than "it's not the food, it's you. you lack will power."
Well, no *kitten*. That's what a binge is -- the total lack of willpower. Where do they go from there? My solution -- "This is what worked for me" -- seems to be a tad more helpful than merely telling the binger he or she is insane to believe the food might be the problem.
eta: and I totally get what the "insane" bit is getting at -- that trying to hang onto a magical talisman instead of understanding science is what is insane. But telling someone to "just eat the food in moderation" is also insane when they are telling you they can't eat the food in moderation.
This resonates with me. Thank you.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPMS6tGOACo
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