Eating at restaurants used to be fun, now it's kind of stressful.
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SkepticalOwl wrote: »It occurs to me that though many are saying that a government mandate to provide nutrition information is getting in the way of business, the mandate will actually make a free market in restaurant meals a possibility. The concept of the free market, and the idea of the "invisible hand" guiding it, presupposes perfect information on the part of the consumer. Arguing against people having more information on which to base their purchasing decisions is actually arguing against the most effective part of the capitalist system.
You should work on leveling up your skepticism, owl.0 -
Liftng4Lis wrote: »I agree with you OP. Sometimes I just end up staying home because I can't find a restaurant that has something on the menu that doesn't look like it's going to be another 1000 calories... It's pretty disheartening.
Seriously??? This is about living life and using moderation. I would never stay home because of calories, thats silly. I have WAY more important things in life to worry about that if I went over by a few calories. You need to get out more!
Actually, I think it's a good idea. Some people don't want to go out, and it's their right to stay away from those who don't care. The absolute worst thing we dealt with whan I was a cook was people who should have stayed home.0 -
No, I walk in there not knowing exactly what I am getting because restaurants vary in exactly how they prepare dishes. That's the whole point.
Do you realize that having fake data available for calorie counts won't do anything to affect that variance in any way? Even amongst chains.0 -
^ This. I wish people were more easily controlled by ads, my company wouldn't be spending as much as we do on them.GiveMeCoffee wrote: »GiveMeCoffee wrote: »@GiveMeCoffee - Just a, not so random, question: Do you really believe that society and how laws and culture looks plays no part in how we end up? Are you one of those few that refuse to believe that people are influenced by things such as commercials, peer pressure and other similar things? No hate, just wondering.
Yes I believe we all make choices and need to stand behind them. A commercial might look good but they aren't forcing me to go run out and purchase something. Peer pressure no I think yes people may try to influence you but again you need to decide what you want and not be so easily swayed from your beliefs.
If everyone just accepted that this is the life I was born into no one would ever attempt to better themselves. I think we've become a society of people that take no responsibility for themselves, are always looking for the next thing to blame.
Personal responsibility is very important, but there are a thousand other factors out there that most people are less aware of and also less resilient to. I recommend you look up a few books or classes on human psychology 101 because your view of how "commercials don't force us to do anything" is not only wrong but can also be straight out damaging to people around you. I know this is slightly off-topic though, so you're more than welcome to send me a PM and we can continue discussing it in good manners without derailing this thread
Really? Sorry I worked in marketing and took many psychology classes.
Blaming commercials or any other outside source for your lack of conviction is much more damaging. I think everyone around me has survived 43 years they are probably safe. But please continue this thread is already so derailed please oh please tell me how I am straight out damaging those around me
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SkepticalOwl wrote: »It occurs to me that though many are saying that a government mandate to provide nutrition information is getting in the way of business, the mandate will actually make a free market in restaurant meals a possibility. The concept of the free market, and the idea of the "invisible hand" guiding it, presupposes perfect information on the part of the consumer. Arguing against people having more information on which to base their purchasing decisions is actually arguing against the most effective part of the capitalist system.
You should work on leveling up your skepticism, owl.
I heard of an interesting concept once. I think it was called "irony."0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »Every time I end up going out to eat at a restaurant that doesn't publish their nutritional information I feel like I am playing Russian roulette. It should be mandatory that consumers are allowed to know the contents of the food you are serving them. I have no way to log any of this stuff accurately because restaurants have a way of sneaking fats and oils into just about everything! I could have eaten an entire stick of butter today for all I know. I used to love trying new places. Now it's just a headache. I feel like such a cranky old lady getting my feathers ruffled at what should have been a good time but I can't help but wonder if I am going to regret this tomorrow. Blah.
1 - If it was mandatory that every restaurant provided nutritional content, there would be no local establishments...which are the best establishments and also tend to actually offer more fresh, high quality food and use high quality ingredients. Chain restaurants of a certain size are required to publish nutritional information.
2 - Even restaurants that do provide nutritional information are allowed quite a bit of latitude and room for error...'cuz guess what, the dude in the kitchen making minimum wage isn't going to weigh out exactly X grams of butter or Y grams of this or that and the other. There's plenty of error already inherent in that published information.
3 - The notion that one meal out is going to somehow be your undoing is ridiculous.
4 - Learn how to make better choices...if you're really concerned, opt for grilled or baked items...get double veg, etc. Also, my wife and I will often split an entree when we're out...most restaurant servings are 2+.
5 - I personally don't eat out that often anymore, so when i do I just kick back and enjoy. You don't get fat overnight...back to point 3, one meal is not your undoing and even if you do overeat, you don't gain fat overnight, that just now how your body works.
Many of the big chains have websites--AND they have to provide calorie counts on the menus. The Olive Garden has to provide the information (calories from alcoholic drinks have to be added by November); the little mom-and-pop Italian restaurant on the corner does not.
Steamed items work, too, as well as being careful of the sauces (cream sauces are usually hard on the calorie counts). Or up the exercise level and eat lighter on your other means if you know the event is going to be a high-calorie affair.
Sometimes you have to give yourself a break--one high-calorie lunch or dinner will not undo everything. 0 -
Making choices like 2 pieces bread with olive oil and a latte will blow what was a reasonable meal. Just learn from the experience and don't order those with your meal next time.0
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I like the same game. I think it's almost udderly universal.
I do kinda feel sorry for folks who think the calories on the menus are actually accurate.0 -
Your fear of one meal stalling progress I find unlikely. So long as you remain under your overall daily intake you will still be losing. My boyfriend and I love eating out and we do it about once every two weeks. Sometimes I try to work out the calories, most of the time I don't bother and I just enjoy being with him. Last time we had a full rack of ribs each, half the giant salad each and chips. I still lost weight that week.0
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christinalong1991 wrote: »jasonmh630 wrote: »jasonmh630 wrote: »Unfortunately everyone insisted on going to a local steakhouse no one had been to before for lunch. I got the smallest steak they offered because they said that they couldn't do the chicken without the sauce (I guess it must be premade and frozen that way?). I only took one bite of the garlic bread that they threw an entire loaf of on our plates and one small bite of the baked potato with butter. Ate all my salad, though. I can't do half at a restaurant unless I get kind of full. Honestly, I don't have that kind of willpower.
I still love to go to steak houses......I just tell them to please give me double steamed veggies (in lieu of Potato or Rice), and garden salad w/ a wedge of lemon (in lieu of salad dressing).......my motto is if your gonna have dressing on your salad then you may as well have french fries instead.
Then I'd suggest getting a new motto. I feel dumber for having read that... Salad dressing is NOT the equivalent of french fries, when consumed in moderation (about 1-2 Tbsp) and if you think that's bad, then you need to reevaluate your knowledge of what is healthy.
Enjoy that 350 Calorie Salad at The Keg bud!......or even better have the 660 Calorie 44g fat Chicken Caesar Salad at Chilli's, or better yet go to the Olive Garden and enjoy their Grilled Chicken Caesar Salad and all its 850 Calories w/ 64grams of fat. Maybe you should re-evaluate your knowledge of what is healthy, just because it has lettuce in it and is called a salad doesn't make it healthy.
https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/q1/lifestyle/health/galleries/g/6756677/15-worst-restaurant-meals/6756739/
You assume that I'd rather go to those places and eat those items, except I made no insinuation of that... When in reality, I'd rather make my own salads at home so I can control what and exactly how much goes into it. The only point any of us are trying to make is that salad dressing isn't "bad for you" when you use just a little bit. One TBSP or maybe two is plenty to put on a big salad and still get the satisfaction of the dressing.
Moderation is key, fella. I've got the 50 pounds GONE to prove it. My brother has got the 170 pounds GONE to prove it... Along with numerous people on MFP.
The point is... Just because you deem it unhealthy, doesn't inherently MAKE it unhealthy. People just need to make better decisions on how much to consume. THAT'S what makes people fat... not the foods themselves.
I think the point wasn't that Caesar salad is unhealthy, the way I feel about it, and not sure if this is what the other person mentioned, but when a salad has the same amount of calories as a burger an fries and I'm paying 10-12 dollars for either the burger or the salad, bet your butt I'ma go with the burger and fries over the salad! I think that's what the original point about a salad with dressing being the same as fries. But then again, I can't stand salads in the first place, so I'm biased off the bat :P
This is why you get them to put the dressing on the side. :P0 -
On the rare occasion that I do dine out-I make it a point to not go to a restaurant that posts nutritional information. I would rather indulge in the extravagant food and enjoy the company. I estimate the calories, log and move on.0
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but you're already setting out with a piss poor attitude that some how because it's chalk full of delicious fat- it's unhealthy.... and you are negative to start "they decide how unhealthy they are going to make it? what does that even mean?? They aren't making healthy or unhealthy food- they are making food to sell- and hopefully it's delicious.
So you're saying unhealthy food is not delicious?
I just don't understand your fussiness with claiming it's "unhealthy" because it's got fat and sugar in it? or it's high calorie- or whatever it is that you're claiming unhealthy is (which can we narrow that definition down for me since you seem vague on that).
Of course they aren't going to be the same- no one said- but you pick one that's an average- and guess high.
And go on about your merry way.
Or, you know, they could just tell us what's in their product. Food costs for successful restaurants (and therefore, what is in the dish) are calculated very carefully. It doesn't seem like an excessive burden for a restaurant to share that information with the public.
Heck, MFP has recipe calculator that does the job just fine. The FDA or whatever regulatory body could put up an official calculator for mom and pop establishments and the chefs could whip out their calorie counts for the day in 5 minutes and then post them on their chalkboard right along with the day's specials.
I love the special pleading going on in this thread where 1) Mom and Pop establishments are changing their menu every day and it's too burdensome and 2) Mom and Pop establishments would have to reprint all their menus. You can have one problem, but not both. If your favorite restaurant is changing its menu every day it's either NOT reprinting its menu and has a chalkboard setup, or it IS reprinting its menu and adding the calorie counts costs nothing more than a few extra characters.0 -
BeginningAgainMay14 wrote: »
but you're already setting out with a piss poor attitude that some how because it's chalk full of delicious fat- it's unhealthy.... and you are negative to start "they decide how unhealthy they are going to make it? what does that even mean?? They aren't making healthy or unhealthy food- they are making food to sell- and hopefully it's delicious.
So you're saying unhealthy food is not delicious?
I just don't understand your fussiness with claiming it's "unhealthy" because it's got fat and sugar in it? or it's high calorie- or whatever it is that you're claiming unhealthy is (which can we narrow that definition down for me since you seem vague on that).
Of course they aren't going to be the same- no one said- but you pick one that's an average- and guess high.
And go on about your merry way.
Or, you know, they could just tell us what's in their product. Food costs for successful restaurants (and therefore, what is in the dish) are calculated very carefully. It doesn't seem like an excessive burden for a restaurant to share that information with the public.
Heck, MFP has recipe calculator that does the job just fine. The FDA or whatever regulatory body could put up an official calculator for mom and pop establishments and the chefs could whip out their calorie counts for the day in 5 minutes and then post them on their chalkboard right along with the day's specials.
I love the special pleading going on in this thread where 1) Mom and Pop establishments are changing their menu every day and it's too burdensome and 2) Mom and Pop establishments would have to reprint all their menus. You can have one problem, but not both. If your favorite restaurant is changing its menu every day it's either NOT reprinting its menu and has a chalkboard setup, or it IS reprinting its menu and adding the calorie counts costs nothing more than a few extra characters.
lol 5minutes.
The MFP database is so *kitten*, that it takes a lot longer to enter ONE recipe, let alone how many a restaurant would have to enter.
And guess what? Depending how you pack a cup of flour, it weighs between 4-5 ounces. And restaurants don't have the time to use a food scale so the exact weight of flour is used every single time. Same goes for sugar and many other dry ingredients.
You clearly don't spend THAT much time in the kitchen or on the MFP recipe builder if you think a restaurant came upload 2 dozen + recipes, if you think dish is the exact same every single time.
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I think the hope with that law is that it will push restaurants to give more low calorie options. Which frankly is a good thing. And it's only for chains with more than 20 restaurants I believe.
My favorite restaurants are local/non chain places as well but I really wish they would clearly show the low calorie options on their menu. Often it's just sandwiches or salads with all kinds of nuts and cheeses or breaded chicken or fish and it's just tough to figure out what's 'safest' to eat. Then you have the other extreme where the 'light menu' is pretty much egg whites with veggies and fruit or plain oatmeal and you just want to ask them if really they have no option between 300 and 1000 calories.
Why should they though? Most of the time if I'm going out to eat it's not because I'm looking for a low-calorie option. If I was I'd just stay home and make something myself. I go out to eat for the experience and if I want something less caloric for whatever reason (not very hungry, want to save room for dessert, drink a bit more wine, etc) then it's up to me to make the choice. Get a salad with dressing on the side. If it has a ton of cheese on it? Ask to go light on the cheese. See if they can put grilled chicken instead of breaded chicken on it. If not then skip the add on all together. Go for chicken breast or a pork dish that isn't drenched in sauces. Skip the starchy side and ask for more vegetables.
My favorite restaurants are non chain local places as well and I know I can ask them to tailor my meals to fit whatever my calories and dietary needs are. I'm a big girl. I can make my own low-cal (or not) choices without having my menu tell me what's what.
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If I go out to eat, it is more for the experience and what not. Since I rarely eat out its like a treat and therefore I do not care what is in the food.
BTW everyone has a smart phones these days. Spend an extra 10 minutes to make your food choice and go to their website where most places (chains at least) post that information now.0 -
I agree that eating out is more stressful and it used to be one of my most fun things to do BUT...in the spirit of "one meal won't be my undoing" I now choose where I eat out really really carefully-like, it better REALLY be worth the calories. If possible, I look at the menu online first so I can plan the rest of my day-for example, I love bread and olive oil, so if I am likely to eat that at dinner I won't have any other carbs that day. Or, if I see that I can have a big salad or make a meal out of two or three small appetizers, that's actually pretty fun and then I can have a nice dessert and not feel bad. And I don't do lattes or cappuccinos or anything any more--I don't love them enough to waste the calories. Also I am a vegetarian, so many (not all) of the items I might order MAY be a little better than, say, a big burger dripping with cheese. I feel like I have to think hard about what goes in my mouth--isn't that what we are all trying to do? Example--my kids LOVE the Cheesie's down the block--huge greasy grilled cheese. Me?? Not so much-not yummy enough to spend that much calories on it. Now, Lou Malnati's pizza--that I will totally spend the calories on. It does require more thought than I ever gave it before though.0
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BeginningAgainMay14 wrote: »
but you're already setting out with a piss poor attitude that some how because it's chalk full of delicious fat- it's unhealthy.... and you are negative to start "they decide how unhealthy they are going to make it? what does that even mean?? They aren't making healthy or unhealthy food- they are making food to sell- and hopefully it's delicious.
So you're saying unhealthy food is not delicious?
I just don't understand your fussiness with claiming it's "unhealthy" because it's got fat and sugar in it? or it's high calorie- or whatever it is that you're claiming unhealthy is (which can we narrow that definition down for me since you seem vague on that).
Of course they aren't going to be the same- no one said- but you pick one that's an average- and guess high.
And go on about your merry way.
Or, you know, they could just tell us what's in their product. Food costs for successful restaurants (and therefore, what is in the dish) are calculated very carefully. It doesn't seem like an excessive burden for a restaurant to share that information with the public.
Heck, MFP has recipe calculator that does the job just fine. The FDA or whatever regulatory body could put up an official calculator for mom and pop establishments and the chefs could whip out their calorie counts for the day in 5 minutes and then post them on their chalkboard right along with the day's specials.
I love the special pleading going on in this thread where 1) Mom and Pop establishments are changing their menu every day and it's too burdensome and 2) Mom and Pop establishments would have to reprint all their menus. You can have one problem, but not both. If your favorite restaurant is changing its menu every day it's either NOT reprinting its menu and has a chalkboard setup, or it IS reprinting its menu and adding the calorie counts costs nothing more than a few extra characters.
Actually, you can have both. A lot of restaurants have a regular menu and a special menu.
We really don't need to make small business harder in this country. And, until you get out there and run your own restaurant, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about when it comes to what may or may not be a burden on the staff and, ultimately, the bottom line.
Anyone who needs the government to regulate calories counts on food menus needs to wake up and start accepting some personal responsibility for their education and their subsequent actions. If you can't figure out what you should eat on your own, then you shouldn't eat out. Otherwise, estimate and log it yourself.0 -
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GuitarJerry wrote: »Sometimes I make great choices, sometimes I don't. Sometimes, I don't go out to eat to worry about calories, instead it's social, or a celebration, or just having fun on a Sunday afternoon with my girlfriend. Life consists of many different things, and health is one of them, but there are also other things. If you maintain your calories most of the time, an occasional outing is not going to kill your progress. On the other hand, it depends where you are in your path. Sometimes, if I'm really on a great roll, I might skip an outing. But, usually, I just do it and do my best considering all things.
^ So much this. Owning your health and your decisions - I like it.0 -
BeginningAgainMay14 wrote: »
but you're already setting out with a piss poor attitude that some how because it's chalk full of delicious fat- it's unhealthy.... and you are negative to start "they decide how unhealthy they are going to make it? what does that even mean?? They aren't making healthy or unhealthy food- they are making food to sell- and hopefully it's delicious.
So you're saying unhealthy food is not delicious?
I just don't understand your fussiness with claiming it's "unhealthy" because it's got fat and sugar in it? or it's high calorie- or whatever it is that you're claiming unhealthy is (which can we narrow that definition down for me since you seem vague on that).
Of course they aren't going to be the same- no one said- but you pick one that's an average- and guess high.
And go on about your merry way.
Or, you know, they could just tell us what's in their product. Food costs for successful restaurants (and therefore, what is in the dish) are calculated very carefully. It doesn't seem like an excessive burden for a restaurant to share that information with the public.
Heck, MFP has recipe calculator that does the job just fine. The FDA or whatever regulatory body could put up an official calculator for mom and pop establishments and the chefs could whip out their calorie counts for the day in 5 minutes and then post them on their chalkboard right along with the day's specials.
I love the special pleading going on in this thread where 1) Mom and Pop establishments are changing their menu every day and it's too burdensome and 2) Mom and Pop establishments would have to reprint all their menus. You can have one problem, but not both. If your favorite restaurant is changing its menu every day it's either NOT reprinting its menu and has a chalkboard setup, or it IS reprinting its menu and adding the calorie counts costs nothing more than a few extra characters.
Yes, because really good chefs actually weigh and measure every ingredient.
And yes, mom & pop restaurants would have to reprint their menus. I know plenty of places that have seasonal menus, special menus for certain things and/or change their menus every couple of months so it would be a burden upon them to have to reprint their menus to include the calorie amounts. And what about the specials? The poor waitstaff have to remember what all the specials are now you're going to toss in remembering the calories for each dish?
It's a ridiculously frivolous law that has been put in place to "control" the obesity epidemic. It makes it seem like we are too stupid to realize that when you go out to a restaurant the food is going to be riddled with calories and therefore not 100% healthy for you. The thing is it's not the restaurants that are making people fat it's the inability to practice fork put downs and table push backs.0 -
Regarding the preparation of food in chain restaurants, many have their entrees pre-packaged from a central processing plant. I'd say the measures and food content would be pretty darn accurate.0
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I haven't been to a single restaurant that publishes nutritional data of each meal they offer to make me. Some people are facing rude awakenings when travelling, me thinks.0
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PRMinx, is that from the stated nutritional content and what actually arrives? I am talking one entree to another.0
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Extreme Pita here in Canada publishes it's nutritional content on the wall.0
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PRMinx, is that from the stated nutritional content and what actually arrives? I am talking one entree to another.
Nutrition labels, including restaurant nutrition labels, are allowed a variance of 20%. Some restaurants are more likely to be accurate than others. Pre-packaged meals that are re-heated to order are probably going to be closer to the stated values. Meals where there is human error in serving (Chipotle, for example) are more likely to vary.0 -
Extreme Pita here in Canada publishes it's nutritional content on the wall.
So, when it comes to a pita, your pre-measured (if they pre-measure) meat, cheese and bread will be closer to what is posted than any sauces. None of this should stop you from eating out, though. I just usually round up a bit because I'd rather overestimate than underestimate.0 -
goddessofawesome wrote: »BeginningAgainMay14 wrote: »
but you're already setting out with a piss poor attitude that some how because it's chalk full of delicious fat- it's unhealthy.... and you are negative to start "they decide how unhealthy they are going to make it? what does that even mean?? They aren't making healthy or unhealthy food- they are making food to sell- and hopefully it's delicious.
So you're saying unhealthy food is not delicious?
I just don't understand your fussiness with claiming it's "unhealthy" because it's got fat and sugar in it? or it's high calorie- or whatever it is that you're claiming unhealthy is (which can we narrow that definition down for me since you seem vague on that).
Of course they aren't going to be the same- no one said- but you pick one that's an average- and guess high.
And go on about your merry way.
Or, you know, they could just tell us what's in their product. Food costs for successful restaurants (and therefore, what is in the dish) are calculated very carefully. It doesn't seem like an excessive burden for a restaurant to share that information with the public.
Heck, MFP has recipe calculator that does the job just fine. The FDA or whatever regulatory body could put up an official calculator for mom and pop establishments and the chefs could whip out their calorie counts for the day in 5 minutes and then post them on their chalkboard right along with the day's specials.
I love the special pleading going on in this thread where 1) Mom and Pop establishments are changing their menu every day and it's too burdensome and 2) Mom and Pop establishments would have to reprint all their menus. You can have one problem, but not both. If your favorite restaurant is changing its menu every day it's either NOT reprinting its menu and has a chalkboard setup, or it IS reprinting its menu and adding the calorie counts costs nothing more than a few extra characters.
Yes, because really good chefs actually weigh and measure every ingredient.
And yes, mom & pop restaurants would have to reprint their menus. I know plenty of places that have seasonal menus, special menus for certain things and/or change their menus every couple of months so it would be a burden upon them to have to reprint their menus to include the calorie amounts. And what about the specials? The poor waitstaff have to remember what all the specials are now you're going to toss in remembering the calories for each dish?
It's a ridiculously frivolous law that has been put in place to "control" the obesity epidemic. It makes it seem like we are too stupid to realize that when you go out to a restaurant the food is going to be riddled with calories and therefore not 100% healthy for you. The thing is it's not the restaurants that are making people fat it's the inability to practice fork put downs and table push backs.
Ha. Hahahaha. So much this.
I couldn't tell you how much sugar was in the caramelized onions I made at the restaurant back in the day if my life depended on it (and before anyone jumps on that, yes, we used sugar in our caramelized onions because it speeds the process... not really true to form, but hey, it got the job done and it was tasty). Whenever I asked my chef how much of an ingredient to add to something I was cooking, his answer was always "add until it tastes right".
Most chefs I know don't weigh or measure ANYTHING (except for molecular gastronomy stuff, which is an entirely different planet). This is why most "celebrity chef" cookbooks are garbage. Very VERY few chefs are doing it to make their customers fatter, or to cover up "poor quality ingredients". Any decent restaurant is adding fat and salt because their goal is to make tasty food.
My theory is, if I'm going out to eat, it's going to be at a place where I know whatever I'm eating is well worth the calories I'm probably consuming. I don't order a grilled chicken breast and vegetables, because that's not what going out to eat means to me. Of course, I limit my meals out to 3-4 times per year for that reason. I eat what I want, don't stuff myself, call it a day and start over the next day.
Oh, and going out to Panera or another chain restaurant with some friends at lunch doesn't count as a "meal out" for me. I plan around that using their available nutritional information, and make sure it fits in my goals, because those meals are never worth the extra calories for me. Maybe this makes me a food snob. I'm okay with that.0
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