eat right and no need to count calories
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mamapeach910 wrote: »jasonmh630 wrote: »Why do people say all foods are healthy? That isn't true. You might be able to maintain a healthy body and eat some nonhealthy food but there is nothing healthy about a donut for instance. I don't get how you can say it is. I think that clean eating would mean lower calories and most people would maintain or loose weight eating clean but you can clean eat and gain if you eat too many calories.
A donut provides carbs and fat, which are necessary nutritional aspects that you need. So yes, even what you call "unhealthy" foods are healthy to a certain extent.
Mental health is important too. Sometimes, we need little treats. And food is part of social and cultural gathering, ritual, and celebration. Being moderate with all food is part of living in the world around us and enjoying it.
Absolutely, and this point often gets overlooked.
It's not to say that if you have a trigger food, that you need to eat it and 'force' moderation, but more not 'having' to eat only from a limited list of foods.0 -
I agree it is not a good idea to categorize a food as good or bad. Too easy to get into the mindset that that you are also 'bad' to eat something you want and enjoy. Or that ALL 'bad' food should be off limits.
And definitely ditch that annoying term 'clean' eating . It’s counterpart is unclean.
But I don't worry so much about negative consequences with the terms healthy and unhealthy as it pertains to food. As far as defining it-- to paraphrase S.C. Justice Potter Stewart's famous observation on porn--I may not be able to define it but I know it when I see it.
And yes, some 'healthy foods' can have a lot of calories -- but I think of it has having more nutrients. Or greater satiety. More fiber. Or minus the transfat, etc. etc.
You only get into trouble when you say I am going to eat NOTHING but healthy food and you unhappily munch away on carrots sticks and cottage cheese.
And I completely disagree that you can’t gain weight on a ‘healthy diet’ for all the reasons stated above.
If some folks think healthier foods are undefinable and they would just as soon not think of food with those classifications I get the reasoning. And it obviously works for many posting.
But you have to understand you blow the heads off people (maybe that is the point) when you flat out say there are no healthy foods or that such classifications shouldn’t be considered when food ‘choices’ have to made.
When I say I want to eat 'healthier' it usually means more vegetables and it can be as simple as eating spinach (which I actually like) with my Whopper Jr. Or tomato salad with feta cheese and olive oil instead of potato chips. Nothing wrong with potato chips if you want them and count the calories but for me, they don't give much bang for the buck.
I want to eat healthier foods IN ADDITION to my less than nutritious food choices. I know what I mean even if others don’t.
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PlaydohPants wrote: »I've read in a number of books and articles, one today, that if you are eating right (or healthy or clean or however you call it) then you don't need to measure food or count calories. Since this is a calorie-counting site I assume you have not found this to be the case? Is it likely one will continue to carry excess fat even when eating healthy, if calories aren't controlled too?
For me, I find, when I'm eating more natural foods and less processed junk it's easier to stay in a calorie deficit without thinking about. So they might say you don't need to count calories, and that's usually because you'll tend to feel more full on healthy foods than on others and you'll end up eating at a calorie deficit anyway.
But for me, that will only work for a little while. Then I get comfortable with what I am eating and start eating more without realizing it and the weight loss will either stop or I'll gain while still eating healthy.
Yes, this. You can prevent this without counting if you internalize ways to keep track of how much you are eating (which some do intuitively, and don't get fat, some of us find easy to do in our heads, and some find difficult without counting or other rules that force it). But I think it's really normal to not only stick to "healthy" foods (however one defines it) but also impose rules that enforce the deficit at the beginning of a diet and then relax that.
For example, when I first started logging at MFP (after I'd lost my first 20 lbs), I was surprised at how low my calories were, since I'd just been "eating healthy." But of course that's nonsense, I was doing other things too, since I ate pretty healthy when I wasn't trying to lose. I was cutting fat (no cheese, spray oil vs. pouring it, no oil in dressing, lean meat only, skim dairy only, supplementing with egg whites, etc.), I was cutting starchy carbs (and this includes "healthy" carbs like whole grains, potatoes and sweet potatoes, and beans), and I was being restrictive with portion size (4 oz of salmon, say, instead of the 6 oz I'd usually eat now). So big shock that I could find that my day was about 1000 calories.
Now, I changed that once I realized what I was doing because that's way too low, especially as I wanted to start exercising more. But even if I had not (and why I say this problem usually takes care of itself), it wouldn't have lasted, since nothing about cutting carbs, cutting fat, and cutting portion sizes are inherently about "eating healthy." They are about eating low calorie. I didn't feel deprived in the first month of a diet. I would have felt deprived in month 3 or 6, of course. (If someone really enjoys eating that strictly all the time, good for you, although I don't see the point. It's not for me. I love food and think it's possible to love a good variety of food and still eat healthy.)0 -
Why do people say all foods are healthy? That isn't true. You might be able to maintain a healthy body and eat some nonhealthy food but there is nothing healthy about a donut for instance. I don't get how you can say it is. I think that clean eating would mean lower calories and most people would maintain or loose weight eating clean but you can clean eat and gain if you eat too many calories.
Yes, it is true- bearing the individual has no medical conditions.
A donut can help a person hit their macros… specifically carbs and fat. A donut may not be nutrient dense but it does have a purpose. It all depends on a persons goals.
P.s. I just had two mini donuts yesterday… cinnamon sugar and chocolate Oreo. They were delish… helped me meet my fat goal and I stayed within my calorie goal
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What is "healthy" is dependent on the needs of the individual, not a generalization.0
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For people not into hyperbole (ie heads exploding) , I just mean that it goes against everything they have ever thought to be true. Sometimes this is a good thing and necessary. Others times not so much. Or in this case , despite some acrimonious posts I still see it as an honest disagreement on how you see food or want to define it for you own goals.0
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Good thing the body doesn't discriminate and accepts all comers, despite any short circuitry.troutrouter wrote: »What is "healthy" is dependent on the needs of the individual, not a generalization.
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I think that clean eating would mean lower calories and most people would maintain or loose weight eating clean but you can clean eat and gain if you eat too many calories.
"Clean eating" has no definition that is agreed upon. If you define it as "eating lower calorie foods," then of course it has fewer calories--as others have said, that's circular--but then it makes no sense to call it "clean eating" as if it were something separate.
If what you mean is eating mostly nutrient dense foods with some others in moderation to the extent they fit, that's not "clean eating."
If you mean not eating "bad foods," how do we decide what's "bad" and what's unhealthy about eating them in moderation? Isn't it obvious that someone who has a high TDEE (an endurance athlete, say) may have a need to get extra calories/energy even apart from the nutrients in the foods that supply that energy? That's why (for just one example) my grandfather could eat a diet far more filled with grains and other starchy carbs than mine has ever been and not gain weight. He was bigger than me and far more active than me (he was a farmer who did various other physical work on the side). (He also enjoyed sweet foods, and put tons of sugar in his tea.)
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »prettykitty1515 wrote: »I've read in a number of books and articles, one today, that if you are eating right (or healthy or clean or however you call it) then you don't need to measure food or count calories. Since this is a calorie-counting site I assume you have not found this to be the case? Is it likely one will continue to carry excess fat even when eating healthy, if calories aren't controlled too?
Most people who "diet" fail in the long term, whether it be CICO or other methods. Some people do really well with CICO. Others fail because counting the calories of every pretzel and cookie can be a real drag. Others have done very well simply by eliminating most sugars and junk carbs (bread, pasta, cereal) from their regimens (yes, I know it's hard to believe, but there are people who lose a ton of weight without counting a single calorie).
So you have to figure out what works for you.
Yeah, what's the long-term success rate for giving up carbs and maintaining any kind of loss? Also? How many calories are consumed on this carb free diet?
giving up all carbs would not be maintainable, but lowering them is.
i would regularly eat huge piles of pasta back when i was at my highest weight. i no longer do that. it was an easy thing to change.
Based on what data? Because you're telling me? What is the long-term success rate of low-carb dieting? And, honestly, you don't need to defend it since you weren't making the claim that CICO wasn't "sustainable" (as if a scientific principle stopped being sustainable, I'm waiting for gravity to stop being sustainable so I can fly!).
The other point inherent in all of this nonsense is just HOW does low-carbing bypass CICO? Some proof of that too.
I'm just saying that the o.p.'s question of whether or not you can stay at a healthy weight without counting calories works for me by making a few minor tweeks such as lowering carbs. It might not work for everyone else though.
Maybe I'm confused here as to where we are going with this. I was referring to the o.p. with that.0 -
someone in the beginning of this thread brought up Intuitive eating ---- eat when hungry .... don't eat when not. Not an easy task. But in response to OP's post, that's what came to my mind when the OP said eating "right"
I don't think you'd have to count every single calorie if you followed this , however... that suggests the definition of moderation, which considering I'm on this site and find it necessary to count/weigh/ measure everything .. isn't my strongest quality either.0 -
I have found out, after several months using MFP (been here a year now), that it is easier to hit my calorie and protein goal, and feel full and satisfied, if I base my diet on whole foods and home cooking. As a result of that, I've ended up with a more traditional diet.
If I eat a balanced and varied diet - five meals a day, with mostly whole foods, some stuff from every food group, fatty protein and vegetables at every meal, three servings of fruit, and don't overeat, except maybe sometimes because of generous amount of meat at dinner - and occasionally deviate completely from plan because of birthdays, holidays, eating with friends, being sick etc - I kind of automatically hit my calorie and protein goal, at least I'll be in the ballpark.
MFP teaches me to eat right and loving it.
So, if I eat right, I don't really need to count calories.0 -
thecrushinator wrote: »"You can eat too much of "Healthy" food too!"
Yeah, ok. I dare some one on here to try eating 2000 calories worth of apples. Then try eating 2000 calories worth of Krispey Kreme and tell me the two foods are the same.
Definitely not the same. One of them won't kill you with listeria. http://blog.myfitnesspal.com/apple-lovers-beware-nationwide-recall/0 -
PowerfulHunt wrote: »swansorp09 wrote: »I watch an obesity show once where a 600+ pound guys gained 2 pounds. The doctor assumed he was bad with his diet. The man said all he ate was oranges the past 2 days. The doctor asked how many oranges. The man said he ate 54 oranges a day. Healthy food but gained weight.
Hmm there are about 50 calories in a small orange, so 54 of them would be about 2700 calories.. which is not solely going to make a 600lb man gain 2lbs.
54 oranges...4.5 oz per orange...243 ounces...15 pounds. Assuming it had been at least two hours since his last trip to the bathroom, I could see him being 2 pounds heavier.
Ha! Trick answer! Two days after eating nothing but 54 oranges, there's no way he'd be able to go more than two hours between bathroom visits.
But seriously, two pounds? That's within a daily unexplained fluctuation for me and I'm less than a third of what that guy weighed. Two pounds over two days is easily within the margin of error.
TL;DR - Your anecdote tells us absolutely nothing about this topic.0 -
It isn't my definition, lol. I take advice from experts.
Your definition of healthy includes sticking to lean, white, meats. That's not everyone's definition of healthy. I happen to think eating salmon, mackerel, steak, lamb, avocado, almonds, etc is perfectly healthy. This is an inherent problem with trying to "eat healthy". There is no definition of what "healthy" is. I also find no reason to pay much attention to sodium. I do not have hypertension or kidney disease and until I do, I find no problems with eating twice the RDA for sodium some days. Someone who has moderate to severe hypertension really aught to watching their sodium. While it's not necessarily "unhealthy" for me to eat a lot of sodium, it can be quite "unhealthy" for someone else too. This is why it is an exercise in futility to classify individual foods as clean and dirty, or healthy and unhealthy. It's completely subjective and in the end, it's how those foods fit together in a total diet and how that total diet complements the individuals needs that matter.
Healthy eating includes watchingcholesterol, sodium, fat content and sticking to lean, white meats. You won't be able to eat too many of those eggs sticking to All Healthy, All The Time.
I completely disagree with this. There are too many high calorie choices that could be considered "healthy". If I ate grass fed steak, eggs, almonds/almond butter, milk, avocados, coconut oil, bananas, natural peanut butter, oats, granola, etc I could easily eat above my maintenance, and my maintenance is over 3000 calories. Someone with a smaller maintenance could do it even easier.When I began, I was advised to eat healthy, exercise and not worry about anything else. I had special restrictions in addition to that, but could eat all the fruits and veggies my little heart desired.
Without logging, counting, weighing myself or doing any of the things that are so common for weight loss, I lost my first forty pounds. I was shocked when I found out how much I'd lost. Since my clothes got bigger and too big, I knew I'd lost, but was FLOORED by forty pounds. I literally got off and back on the scale and considered that I might've been weighed wrong in the first place, but it would've required like a dozen people doing it wrong in six or eight different places, so there was no error.
If you eat only the healthiest of foods - all healthy, all the time - it's really hard to overeat. You'll see people here asking about how to get to 1200 eating only the healthiest of food. While it's theoretically possible, it would be very difficult to gain weight eating All Healthy, All The Time.
I'm not saying you couldn't gain weight eating whatever you choose to eat, just that people sometimes have a really hard time hitting 1200 when doing All Healthy, All The Time.
But I respect your opinion and think the boards are better when there are multiple opinions posted. Not trying to start a big fight, just clarify.
I know many MFP people do not trust:
Doctors, because they're not smart
CDC, because government lies
Health associations, like Amercian Heart, because they have an agenda
Etc.
I do trust all those people when they all say that eating healthy (as they define it) may help me avoid illness. Avoiding illness is something I'm in favor of doing!
For various reasons, they suggest avoiding certain foods and keeping the salt lower than most Americans do.
If you stick to their recommendations and only their recommendations - All Healthy, All The Time - it's hard to gain weight.
If you add a bunch of stuff that they don't recommend and call it "healthy," that's a different ball game.
If you overdo it on the sodium, you may end up regretting it later. I'm not sure where you got the info that it's cool to eat "a lot" of sodium until it causes cardiovascular problems and then cut back, but I know it is said here a lot. You may end up wishing you'd done it differently.
I don't personally care how much sodium you eat. Eat only salt all day, every day. I don't care. I'm not trying to be Right On The Internet because then I feel smarter and more confident. Just a heads up. For whatever it's worth.
I'm posting this as FYI and not attempting to begin a Link Duel. I'm not suggesting it makes me smarter or right about anything. Just in case you're interested in reading what some people - people who you may or may not trust! People you may or may not wish to hear out! - have to say:
http://sodiumbreakup.heart.org/sodium-411/sodium-and-your-health/0 -
It isn't my definition, lol. I take advice from experts.
Your definition of healthy includes sticking to lean, white, meats. That's not everyone's definition of healthy. I happen to think eating salmon, mackerel, steak, lamb, avocado, almonds, etc is perfectly healthy. This is an inherent problem with trying to "eat healthy". There is no definition of what "healthy" is. I also find no reason to pay much attention to sodium. I do not have hypertension or kidney disease and until I do, I find no problems with eating twice the RDA for sodium some days. Someone who has moderate to severe hypertension really aught to watching their sodium. While it's not necessarily "unhealthy" for me to eat a lot of sodium, it can be quite "unhealthy" for someone else too. This is why it is an exercise in futility to classify individual foods as clean and dirty, or healthy and unhealthy. It's completely subjective and in the end, it's how those foods fit together in a total diet and how that total diet complements the individuals needs that matter.
Healthy eating includes watchingcholesterol, sodium, fat content and sticking to lean, white meats. You won't be able to eat too many of those eggs sticking to All Healthy, All The Time.
I completely disagree with this. There are too many high calorie choices that could be considered "healthy". If I ate grass fed steak, eggs, almonds/almond butter, milk, avocados, coconut oil, bananas, natural peanut butter, oats, granola, etc I could easily eat above my maintenance, and my maintenance is over 3000 calories. Someone with a smaller maintenance could do it even easier.When I began, I was advised to eat healthy, exercise and not worry about anything else. I had special restrictions in addition to that, but could eat all the fruits and veggies my little heart desired.
Without logging, counting, weighing myself or doing any of the things that are so common for weight loss, I lost my first forty pounds. I was shocked when I found out how much I'd lost. Since my clothes got bigger and too big, I knew I'd lost, but was FLOORED by forty pounds. I literally got off and back on the scale and considered that I might've been weighed wrong in the first place, but it would've required like a dozen people doing it wrong in six or eight different places, so there was no error.
If you eat only the healthiest of foods - all healthy, all the time - it's really hard to overeat. You'll see people here asking about how to get to 1200 eating only the healthiest of food. While it's theoretically possible, it would be very difficult to gain weight eating All Healthy, All The Time.
I'm not saying you couldn't gain weight eating whatever you choose to eat, just that people sometimes have a really hard time hitting 1200 when doing All Healthy, All The Time.
But I respect your opinion and think the boards are better when there are multiple opinions posted. Not trying to start a big fight, just clarify.
I know many MFP people do not trust:
Doctors, because they're not smart
CDC, because government lies
Health associations, like Amercian Heart, because they have an agenda
Etc.
I do trust all those people when they all say that eating healthy (as they define it) may help me avoid illness. Avoiding illness is something I'm in favor of doing!
For various reasons, they suggest avoiding certain foods and keeping the salt lower than most Americans do.
If you stick to their recommendations and only their recommendations - All Healthy, All The Time - it's hard to gain weight.
If you add a bunch of stuff that they don't recommend and call it "healthy," that's a different ball game.
If you overdo it on the sodium, you may end up regretting it later. I'm not sure where you got the info that it's cool to eat "a lot" of sodium until it causes cardiovascular problems and then cut back, but I know it is said here a lot. You may end up wishing you'd done it differently.
I don't personally care how much sodium you eat. Eat only salt all day, every day. I don't care. I'm not trying to be Right On The Internet because then I feel smarter and more confident. Just a heads up. For whatever it's worth.
I'm posting this as FYI and not attempting to begin a Link Duel. I'm not suggesting it makes me smarter or right about anything. Just in case you're interested in reading what some people - people who you may or may not trust! People you may or may not wish to hear out! - have to say:
http://sodiumbreakup.heart.org/sodium-411/sodium-and-your-health/
I wish that statement was true.0 -
you could get fat off of broccoli if you ate enough of it0
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I know many MFP people do not trust:
Doctors, because they're not smart
CDC, because government lies
Health associations, like Amercian Heart, because they have an agenda
Etc.
If you stick to their recommendations and only their recommendations - All Healthy, All The Time - it's hard to gain weight.
It's also hard to stick to their recommendations and only their recommendations - All Healthy, All The Time, because we are not merely machines or rational beings, we are humans, animals, and we have lives, feelings, drives, will, some even have jobs and/or friends, that makes Doing The Right Things Always And Never Fail very difficult. More lenient guidelines but still considered healthy enough would IMO be more efficient. A few days ago I saw recommended sweets intake per week, for men: 3, for women: 0. Ain't nobody got time for that. Hence dismissing all the advice, good and unnecessary alike.0 -
allanakern wrote: »you could get fat off of broccoli if you ate enough of it
Can you eat enough of it?
I couldn't.
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I know many MFP people do not trust:
Doctors, because they're not smart
CDC, because government lies
Health associations, like Amercian Heart, because they have an agenda
Etc.
It's not that. It's that there are varying advice and studies and advice given in the past that has been somewhat discredited. For example, the idea that we should eat no more than 2 eggs per week. If we go beyond the interminable (but kind of fun) debates about whether we should think of individual foods as "healthy" or not, we have to get into the discussion of which ones are which, and that's one where the proponents of "healthy" or "clean" foods end up all pitted against each other, since you all have different ideas (backed by various doctors) as to what is "healthy" and what isn't.
Another reason why just "eating healthy" isn't really enough.
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This discussion has been closed.
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