Can you really eat a burger?
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Liftng4Lis wrote: »It's not emotion. I have no emotional issue with food. I tend to stick to whole foods, but moderation is my overall philosophy. Back to the burger.... It is a treat as much as a milkshake is, i.e., especially a fast food burger, is high in calories. Most people cannot have one every day and lose or maintain their weight. They just don't have the calories for it, at least not if they want to maintain good nutrition. I wish folks on here would recognize that not everyone has a 3000 calorie TDEE to play with.
On a 1350-1400 calorie allotment, I have no trouble fitting in a burger and I do not consider it a treat, as it's food! I will be the first on here to say i often talk about cheesecake or chocolate. After my macros are met, if I have room, then I get to have these things. It's all about priorities. So I personally, don't drink my calories and exercise more that day to make a little bigger deficit.
You guys are missing the point. Can I fit a high calorie burger into my day everyday? Nope. And most people can't. On occasion, sure. And so can everyone. Good for you if you can fit it in every day. You are not in the majority. You guys are really arguing with the wrong person, just to argue. I'm not a food restricter or advocating restricting. Moderation means just that, not indulging in high calorie foods every single day. And it really isn't just calories. Those fast food burgers are high in everything and will likely throw off an average person's macros.
The fast food burgers I prefer to order do indeed clock in at the 600-800 calorie range. I definitely enjoyed my share of Hardees burgers before calming down a little. For me I do not think of burgers in the context as a daily food item or even something I care enough about to implement lower calorie hacks/modification. I do like the idea of eating half, though, and adding other stuff to it to make a meal. That's pretty cool, I might try that
In general, the "average" person's diet seems to lead to a high weight (2/3 of Americans are overweight stat), so the issue with high calorie food items could apply to just about anything and nothing all at once
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I haven't had a McD/BK/etc chain burger in ages.
Reading this thread has lead me to McDonalds UK 'nutrition builder' where a post swim evening snack/meal has been planned and pre-logged.
ENABLERS!0 -
SarahKhristan wrote: »Yes you can! I actually ate a bacon cheeseburger not that long ago, and it was AWESOME.
I just made sure it fit within my calories and I did a lot of exercise earlier in the week, so I felt like I had really earned it.
I get what you are saying. Personally I don't like looking at food or exercise as a reward/punishment.
Example...
"I worked out really hard today so I earned this."
or...
"I'll just work out extra hard tomorrow to burn this off."
I prefer the idea of eating and training over dieting and exercise. When you eat and train, a burger fits nicely... When you diet and exercise you have to jump through hoops to make it fit. Hope this rambling made sense... I just woke up
Just my 2 cents...0 -
Semantics.0
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One of the main pieces of advice for preventing childhood obesity is not to use food as a reward or withhold food as a punishment. The point is to make sure kids aren't growing up with food baggage they don't need, and have more tools to learn how to make smarter choices when their parents aren't there to make them for them. The logic behind it doesn't stop being true just because someone turns 21.0 -
what is "permanent metabolic slow down" ??? I went from 220 pounds to 175 pounds and have not experienced that. Yes, I had metabolic adaptation but when I started eating more I actually increased my maintenance level….
For most people, (everyone who has been studied so far (over 50), but scientists will not say "everyone"), if you have been obese for "some period of time" (it is not clear what that period of time is, but it results in more and larger fat cells which remain so even after weight loss) when you lose body fat and as a result your leptin levels drop your metabolism slows by about 15-20%. This effect appears to persist for long periods of time and may be permanent. Scientists theorize that this is an evolutionary trait designed to defend fat stores.
What this means is that an obese person who loses weight will need to eat about 15-20% less calories than someone of the same weight who was never obese. Becoming obese seems to cause permanent physiological damage.
I can post the links again if you like. Or you can google the medical research of Dr. Rudy Leibel of Columbia University Medical Center and Dr. Jules Hirsh of Rockerfeller University Hospital.0 -
I eat cheeseburgers once/while but I do it without the bun.
Agreed with ana3067 and other posters on here - if you create a meal - you can always substitute healthy alternatives so you can still enjoy that cheeseburger.
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You can do way worse than a cheeseburger! Eat that sucker, just make sure to compensate!0
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So cold extremities means your body is fighting weight loss? My hands are cold right now as I lay on the couch so I guess I must be experiencing a metabolic slowdown. Oh noes!!!!
Obviously not all cold is related to weight loss. However, sensitivity to cold is a known response to the metabolic response related to reduction in body fat loss, and I experience it every time I am experiencing weight loss. I am not normally a cold person - most normally my wife calls me a "furnace". But not when I am dieting.
Anyway, It's right here in the doctor's power point slide:
Taken from here at the 35:12 mark:
http://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?live=2993&bhcp=20Honestly you just don't understand weight loss.
Perhaps you should watch the video above to gain some insight on the metabolic consequences of weight loss in obese people. The video is a part of a Grand Round lecture by Dr. Rudy Liebel, who is is the Christopher J. Murphy Professor of Diabetes Research, Professor of Pediatrics and Medicine at Columbia University Medical Center, and Director of the Division of Molecular Genetics in the Department of Pediatrics. He is also Co-Director of the Naomi Berrie Diabetes Center and Executive Director of the Russell and Angelica Berrie Program in Cellular Therapy, Co-Director of the New York Obesity Research Center and the Columbia University Diabetes and Endocrinology Research Center.0 -
I think it's actually the key to sustainable weight loss...if you deprive yourself of everything you crave then eventually you will binge, or fall off the wagon. If you truly want a lifestyle change instead of just dieting to lose weight then fitting in those not so healthy options is so important. I wouldn't be able to handle no pizza, beer, burgers, or wings...so on the days I treat myself (usually Saturdays) I work the rest of my meals around the one big one I will have...if I know my meal will be 800-900 calories (burger, fries, beer) then I fill up on fruits, veggies, and egg whites in the morning, and generally the burger lasts me the rest of the day, if not longer.
Dieting is about deprivation...changing your lifestyle is about moderation.0 -
Even if that were true, why even depress yourself thinking about that? If I were you I would set reasonable goal calories and enjoy the ride. As you get closer you'll make the necessary adjustments to fit fewer calories here and there, and hopefully ultimately realize that your estimated maintenance calories are way low
Because to me it is critically important to understand the problem being tackled, and to be realistic about the possibility of success for any particular course of action. It is important to understand what is happening so that you can take steps to mitigate problems that lead to failure.
For many people, it seems the body has a built-in fat stores defense mechanism triggered, at least in part, by falling Leptin levels. This triggers a probably permanent decline in metabolism, and increases preoccupational thoughts of food, and increases hunger. These things in total end up being too uncomfortable for most people to bear which is why most people end up failing to maintain weight loss long term.
But knowing this, there are steps that can be taken to mitigate the problem. As it turns out, Leptin replacement therapy seems to mitigate all the symptoms of fat loss but only once the fat loss has occurred (there seems to be little effect before and not much during). Also, appetite suppressants can mitigate hunger.
Bariatric surgery is currently the only known procedure that seems to reset the horomonal and neural responsivity, and, as expected, trumps pharmacological and lifestyle changes both in effectiveness of weight lost and duration it is kept off.Why do you not exercise?
I hate sweating and exertion.
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No. Success in life is all about being miserable and deprived all the time.0
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maillemaker wrote: »what is "permanent metabolic slow down" ??? I went from 220 pounds to 175 pounds and have not experienced that. Yes, I had metabolic adaptation but when I started eating more I actually increased my maintenance level….
For most people, (everyone who has been studied so far (over 50), but scientists will not say "everyone"), if you have been obese for "some period of time" (it is not clear what that period of time is, but it results in more and larger fat cells which remain so even after weight loss) when you lose body fat and as a result your leptin levels drop your metabolism slows by about 15-20%. This effect appears to persist for long periods of time and may be permanent. Scientists theorize that this is an evolutionary trait designed to defend fat stores.
What this means is that an obese person who loses weight will need to eat about 15-20% less calories than someone of the same weight who was never obese. Becoming obese seems to cause permanent physiological damage.
I can post the links again if you like. Or you can google the medical research of Dr. Rudy Leibel of Columbia University Medical Center and Dr. Jules Hirsh of Rockerfeller University Hospital.
based on your posting history you appear to be an excuse machine as to why you cannot lose weight. Are you and BFdeal friends?
sure, post the links..
I think you did in another thread and they were torn apart...
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Of course you can! What's the point of life without the things we love, without joy? I don't believe in any "diet" that doesn't allow you to eat a cheeseburger, or anything else for that matter - although obviously, there are things we should eat less often and in moderation. No food is evil. If you're super-strict about calorie counting and macros, you could still easily fit a burger into your plan. They aren't that bad! We eat burgers sometimes with no bun at home. But even if a burger sent you over your calorie count - this isn't the end of the world, people. How mentally painful to go through life restricting so intensely, never enjoying the things we love. People should stop thinking of some foods as "bad" - anything can fit into a balanced lifestyle. I drink alcohol, eat cheese (and cheeseburgers, though to be fair they aren't my favorite), munch fries, slurp pasta, and have a little sweet treat after dinner every day. I exercise most days, do a lot of healthy cooking, and am generally in very good shape. I don't eat pizza and fries and burgers daily, but because I'm so healthy most of the time, I eat them occasionally without guilt. Feeling guilty about enjoying life isn't necessary. Our food plans need to be lifestyles, not "diets" - if you are on a no-cheeseburger diet and it feels awful, then it's the wrong plan for you and it isn't sustainable.0
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More of a mindset. Eating and training in my mind is inclusive. Dieting and exercise to me is the opposite. Again just my thoughts. At the end of the day whatever works for the individual...
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That is not a cheeseburger...tedboosalis7 wrote: »I eat cheeseburgers once/while but I do it without the bun.
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maillemaker wrote: »Even if that were true, why even depress yourself thinking about that? If I were you I would set reasonable goal calories and enjoy the ride. As you get closer you'll make the necessary adjustments to fit fewer calories here and there, and hopefully ultimately realize that your estimated maintenance calories are way low
Because to me it is critically important to understand the problem being tackled, and to be realistic about the possibility of success for any particular course of action. It is important to understand what is happening so that you can take steps to mitigate problems that lead to failure.
For many people, it seems the body has a built-in fat stores defense mechanism triggered, at least in part, by falling Leptin levels. This triggers a probably permanent decline in metabolism, and increases preoccupational thoughts of food, and increases hunger. These things in total end up being too uncomfortable for most people to bear which is why most people end up failing to maintain weight loss long term.
But knowing this, there are steps that can be taken to mitigate the problem. As it turns out, Leptin replacement therapy seems to mitigate all the symptoms of fat loss but only once the fat loss has occurred (there seems to be little effect before and not much during). Also, appetite suppressants can mitigate hunger.
Bariatric surgery is currently the only known procedure that seems to reset the horomonal and neural responsivity, and, as expected, trumps pharmacological and lifestyle changes both in effectiveness of weight lost and duration it is kept off.Why do you not exercise?
I hate sweating and exertion.
You spend so much time reading on why you can't lose weight so you can use it as an excuse but that above is your problem. You're basically wanting result with no effort. It's no surprise you can't achieve it.
Put down the books and pick up a barbell...
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maillemaker wrote: »Na, I like big portions and my dinner is typically 1000+ calories, but I don't extrapolate that out to everyone else in the population.
OK I thought we were talking about being satisfied with Wendy's Singles and now we are up to 1000+ meals. Whatevevs mr. flip-flop.how is a grown mans maintenance level 1400 calories? I am a 35 year old male and my maintenance calories are about 2700 ....
I've always heard you typically you take your weight and multiply by 10 to get your maintenance calories. My goal weight is 150. So about 1500 calories. Factor in the permanent metabolic slowdown of 10-15% and you are looking at 1350-1500 calories maintenance. If it's more, great. Point is, a few handfuls of nuts are a days worth of calories. I could increase this with exercise, but I don't exercise.I'm going to assume his TDEE on Day 1 is 2914, then after 5 days as he claims he goes into starvation mode then BAM........TDEE of 1600. Or 1500. Or 1700. Or whatever he claims. Dreaded starvation mode.
It would be nice if you would read what I post, or even just watch the darn videos, but I suppose it's just too much to expect.
When you lose body fat, your leptin levels drop, among other unknown things. When that happens, your skeletal muscles become about 20% more efficient, reducing your metabolism. Your body burns fewer calories in response to body fat stores dropping in an attempt to restore them to their previous levels. This effect has been seen in every study participant in recent years (over 50) and seems to be permanent, though the scientists admit they cannot say it effects everyone. I've provided the links from world-renown scientists teaching and practicing at some of the worlds best hospitals in the fields of obesity, metabolism, and molecular genetics.
If you refuse to read and understand those things, I don't know what to tell you. It's not "starvation mode", it's your body fighting to protect fat stores.
Yes, I can feel this typically 5 days after starting calorie restriction. I'm feeling them right now (cold extremities) and if I were not on appetite suppressants I'm sure I would be hungry.
If I remember correctly, it's 10-14 calories per pound bodyweight to LOSE weight. Maintenance should be higher than that. (I'd hate to think how many calories you are eating to lose currently.)
If you want to know what your expected calories for maintenance are, go to this calculator, put in your height, goal weight, and the activity for the lifestyle you want at maintenance. Done.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/0 -
One of the main pieces of advice for preventing childhood obesity is not to use food as a reward or withhold food as a punishment. The point is to make sure kids aren't growing up with food baggage they don't need, and have more tools to learn how to make smarter choices when their parents aren't there to make them for them. The logic behind it doesn't stop being true just because someone turns 21.
I don't see it as a reward for working out... I earned that food by working for those additional calories...it's not the same thing as getting a lollipop for getting A's on my report card or ice cream for making my bed. I work out.. I burn additional calories, I earn more food.
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I have no strong opinion on burgers one way or the other, except to say that I don't find them very filling but ymmv
ETA : and that I find burgers with tree fiddy patties in them ridiculous,
however:
You heard wrong. My experience has been that, counting how much I cheat (it's a lot), my maintenance is ~2200 and I lose at <=2000 (both net).maillemaker wrote: »(...)
I've always heard you typically you take your weight and multiply by 10 to get your maintenance calories. My goal weight is 150. So about 1500 calories. Factor in the permanent metabolic slowdown of 10-15% and you are looking at 1350-1500 calories maintenance. If it's more, great. Point is, a few handfuls of nuts are a days worth of calories. I could increase this with exercise, but I don't exercise.
(...)
Of course everyone's body is different, but I have a smallish frame and only a bit of muscle left over from when I was younger (and a tiny bit I've built). My goal weight going in was 70 kgs, same as yours, and I never even tried to stay below 1800 ever.0 -
Congratulations on all your excuses. Perhaps they will take away some of the sting of so much failure.maillemaker wrote: »Even if that were true, why even depress yourself thinking about that? If I were you I would set reasonable goal calories and enjoy the ride. As you get closer you'll make the necessary adjustments to fit fewer calories here and there, and hopefully ultimately realize that your estimated maintenance calories are way low
Because to me it is critically important to understand the problem being tackled, and to be realistic about the possibility of success for any particular course of action. It is important to understand what is happening so that you can take steps to mitigate problems that lead to failure.
For many people, it seems the body has a built-in fat stores defense mechanism triggered, at least in part, by falling Leptin levels. This triggers a probably permanent decline in metabolism, and increases preoccupational thoughts of food, and increases hunger. These things in total end up being too uncomfortable for most people to bear which is why most people end up failing to maintain weight loss long term.
But knowing this, there are steps that can be taken to mitigate the problem. As it turns out, Leptin replacement therapy seems to mitigate all the symptoms of fat loss but only once the fat loss has occurred (there seems to be little effect before and not much during). Also, appetite suppressants can mitigate hunger.
Bariatric surgery is currently the only known procedure that seems to reset the horomonal and neural responsivity, and, as expected, trumps pharmacological and lifestyle changes both in effectiveness of weight lost and duration it is kept off.Why do you not exercise?
I hate sweating and exertion.0 -
I missed this gem of a thread yesterday because I was on a work trip. Just caught up in the taxi on the way to the airport. Just wanted to say a few things:
I totally want a burger now, even though it's only 8am here. If I put bacon on it ot counts as breakfast right?
Also:
MrM27 I think people go to Five Guys for the fries as much as the burgers. At least I do. Cajun fries FTW!
NDJ I agree with most of your comments but you need to work on your math if you think 450 is 25% of 1200.
Lemurcat I hope you had a great vacation but I'm so glad you are back and posting in the forums with your logic and even keeled responses.
LiftingforLis I want some of that cheesecake!
Maillemaker you've supposedly done all this research about weight loss but continue to use that 10x goal weight equals maintenance calories when people have pointed out time and again that it should be much higher and have given you more accurate formulas. You seem to look for any justification to perpetuate your theory that losing weight and maintaining a healthy weight is impossible for you when there are so many examples of people on this site who have done exactly what you're trying to do and had a great attitude about it which probably contributed to their success.
Aaaaannnddd now I'm car sick.0 -
based on your posting history you appear to be an excuse machine as to why you cannot lose weight.
What you call an "excuse machine" I call showing the science behind why most weight loss attempts fail, so that people can understand why they are struggling and take steps to mitigate the issues that make it a struggle.Are you and BFdeal friends?
I have no idea.sure, post the links..
http://videocast.nih.gov/summary.asp?live=2993&bhcp=20
http://www.dana.org/Cerebrum/Default.aspx?id=39307
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/landia/article/PIIS2213-8587(15)00009-1/abstract
You will have to register to read the article in the medical journal The Lancet but it is free to do so.
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If you want to know what your expected calories for maintenance are, go to this calculator, put in your height, goal weight, and the activity for the lifestyle you want at maintenance. Done.
http://scoobysworkshop.com/accurate-calorie-calculator/
Thanks. I've used that site before for calculating calories for my current weight but never predicting a future caloric intake. Looks like I'd be at about 1767-1871 calories maintenance if I got to 180 pounds. 2079 if I'd never been obese.0
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