Low carb dieters!
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Really? are we back to that nonsense? If you are eating low carb then you are eating low calorie...
why ? It's fairly trivial for me to eat my TDEE without going over 30 grams of carbohydrate. Bacon and egg is zero carb so I could have 500 or more calories of that. No carbs in steak, butter, cheese. Nuts are low - 600 calories of almonds for 7 grams etc.
It's true to say that many low carb dieters voluntarily reduce calorie intake even when told to eat ad lib, but equally there are low carbers maintaining weight.0 -
Dude... He's talking about losing weight on a low carb diet while in a calorie surplus which has been the point of contention in this entire thread.Really? are we back to that nonsense? If you are eating low carb then you are eating low calorie...
why ? It's fairly trivial for me to eat my TDEE without going over 30 grams of carbohydrate. Bacon and egg is zero carb so I could have 500 or more calories of that. No carbs in steak, butter, cheese. Nuts are low - 600 calories of almonds for 7 grams etc.
It's true to say that many low carb dieters voluntarily reduce calorie intake even when told to eat ad lib, but equally there are low carbers maintaining weight.
He has clearly stated several times that he has no problem with low carb.
To address your second point, of course low carbers (is that what they're called?) can lose/maintain/gain weight because carbs are only one part of total energy consumption, measured in calories.0 -
My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
No. They can't.
That's exactly how they make it sound though
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They can, sort of...christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
But what they don't realize, or won't admit to, is that going low carb tends to squash ones appetite. So in effect, what they "want" still leaves them in a calorie deficit.
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christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
I am afraid there is not a simple straight forward answer, but if you want to have a look at the science behind the low-carbing you may want to read Gary Taubes' Why We Get Fat.
That being said, I think that low-carbing can have a space also within the CICO dogma, as a strategy to eat less whilst not feeling hungry (and yes you can be in a deficit without counting calories)
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I use low carb dieting, it works wonderfully for me. This time around ive lost 23lbs so far in 6 weeks, i eat well, im never hungry, im healthy and i feel great.0
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You would never say though that this is all happening in a calorie surplus. Clearly you have found a sustainable way to remain in a caloric deficit without suffering. Which in and of itself is wonderful...traceyjayne1964 wrote: »I use low carb dieting, it works wonderfully for me. This time around ive lost 23lbs so far in 6 weeks, i eat well, im never hungry, im healthy and i feel great.
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This is the contention. Low carb is still cico. The law of thermodynamics is universal. There just happen to be multiple ways to implement it.Gianfranco_R wrote: »That being said, I think that low-carbing can have a space also within the CICO dogma, as a strategy to eat less whilst not feeling hungry (and yes you can be in a deficit without counting calories)
And yes you are absolutely correct. You can be in a deficit without counting.
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They can, sort of...christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
But what they don't realize, or won't admit to, is that going low carb tends to squash ones appetite. So in effect, what they "want" still leaves them in a calorie deficit.
For some, it might squash the appetite effectively. For emotional eaters? Not enough.
Raises hand.
The point I'm trying to make is that there has to be more said, up front, in low carbing circles, that stresses the importance of CICO because it's NOT magic for everyone. People overeat for a variety of reasons. It's not all hormones.
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"More, most, a lot." The vast majority of LC and keto people already know and never claim otherwise that eating at a deficit goes hand in hand with weight loss. It doesn't change the fact that a lot of people on it don't have to bother counting calories to do it, or that they can eat more food to satiety than they did on strict calorie counting that went hand in hand with more deprivation in order to meet a higher carb count.
This isn't some great wisdom anyone is laying down in this thread. Any newbie who shows up to any LC forum or group or website is informed pretty quickly if they have fairy tale dreams of dropping carbs and magically losing 30 lbs. The implication that it's some epidemic, with everyone on lc running around like pied pipers, lying to people about how it works, is the real strawman people have built up just to hear themselves argue.0 -
This is just another form of eating in a deficit. If eating low carb helps you maintain a deficit then good for you but don't claim you can eat as many calories as you want and still lose weight. Our bodies just do not work like that.0
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Its *kitten*!!! You cannot eat ALL you want and still lose weight. It does not work like that. You have to be in calorie deficit in order to lose weight, and eating all you want makes that impossible.
With that being said Mark Haub, a professor at Kansas State University, went on a "convenience store" diet which mainly consisted of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos to demonstrate that counting calories is what matters most in weight loss, not the nutritional value in food. He lost 27 pounds in only two months.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinkie0 -
christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
The only low carbers, I've seen, who claim that are ignorant and probably (hopefully) new to low carbing. Meaning, they're mostly fad dieters. Someone just starting out and seeing results, like the water weight loss that usually occurs at the start of a low carb diet, might be excited and think this is the time it will work..when they've failed doing other diets. It's understandable (kind of) when people don't bother to educate themselves any further than what to do. They don't care about the why..as long as it's working.
My dinner last night was homemade broccoli cheddar soup, chicken breast baked with a ranch, panko, and cheese 'breading,' and bacon. That was 620 calories for one meal. It's just as easy to go over calories (leading to weight gain) low carbing as it is doing whatever else... (Unless you're like me and have a medical condition then it's easier with carbs but not because low carb is magic or anything.) If you eat over maintenence you gain. I don't care what you're eating.0 -
blktngldhrt wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
The only low carbers, I've seen, who claim that are ignorant and probably (hopefully) new to low carbing. Meaning, they're mostly fad dieters. Someone just starting out and seeing results, like the water weight loss that usually occurs at the start of a low carb diet, might be excited and think this is the time it will work..when they've failed doing other diets. It's understandable (kind of) when people don't bother to educate themselves any further than what to do. They don't care about the why..as long as it's working.
My dinner last night was homemade broccoli cheddar soup, chicken breast baked with a ranch, panko, and cheese 'breading,' and bacon. That was 620 calories for one meal. It's just as easy to go over calories (leading to weight gain) low carbing as it is doing whatever else... (Unless you're like me and have a medical condition then it's easier with carbs but not because low carb is magic or anything.) If you eat over maintenence you gain. I don't care what you're eating.
Some are new, and some are other people intentionally twisting what's been said to make it sound like they're eating at a surplus, when all they are really saying is that they get full a hell of a lot faster on high fat than they do on high carb (which is true for anyone). "As much as you want" does not equate to "everything on the table." Read back through all these arguments, though, and you'll see a lot of people making that assumption.
There may be some disconnect for those who cannot eat until they feel full on their current WOE, so can't imagine that it doesn't work that way for everyone else. Similar to those who think if something doesn't work for them, personally, it cannot possibly work for anyone else.0 -
jennibean40 wrote: »Not at all.. i just know my results. And there are multiple studies, diets, and doctors who agree low carb diets can be more effective than low calorie diets. I could maintain my carb count and increase my calorie count.. and continue to lose weight at the level i have been. If you do some research you will find that the clean eating diets, while not marketed as low carb.. boast a MUCH lower carb count than a basic low calorie diet. It comes down to the foods you choose. Most carbs are bad for your body. Yes you need some carbs. This is known. And in response to "hard to maintain" i disagree... not any harder than a low calorie dieter who wants icecream. There is a vast array of foods you can eat and on a maintenance low carb diet you can still consume many regular foods. Ps every diet sheds water weight at first.
Remember the atkins diet studys? Theres a documentary on it, atthe end of it they came to the conclusion that the reason they lost weight was because the meat filled them up or they could only eat so much and they were more likely to eat less of it than a regular diet with the carbs. As for the whole getting into ketosis thing, i dont know as im not sure if ive reached ketosis but when ive tried the keto diet i found it helpfull, i think its good to keep you away from the *kitten* foods and control them. If you fancy sticking to it and find you can then thats good and i think even if you dont stick to it long term it will help you be able to control food better even if you dont stick to it.0 -
Absolutely. Which is why it does not work for all...mamapeach910 wrote: »For some, it might squash the appetite effectively. For emotional eaters? Not enough.
Well said...mamapeach910 wrote: »The point I'm trying to make is that there has to be more said, up front, in low carbing circles, that stresses the importance of CICO because it's NOT magic for everyone. People overeat for a variety of reasons. It's not all hormones.0 -
Take a bariatric patient like myself. I started out at 400 calories and my daily intake is 800 calories. I am full of energy. Why? Because what I take in is mostly protein and very low sugar and carbs. Some fat is okay, healthy fats. This will keep your skin from drying out.
I have been dropping weight 1.5 to 2 lbs a week. I exercise 3 x a week at the gym and walk 30 mins daily. I take B12 and B1 vitamins for energy among other vitamins as supplements. My directives come from a professional surgeon and a dietician not some random person. Do what works for you. Just make sure you feed your body the energy it needs (protein) so it can function. That way, it uses the fat to burn as energy instead of your muscles.0 -
blktngldhrt wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
The only low carbers, I've seen, who claim that are ignorant and probably (hopefully) new to low carbing. Meaning, they're mostly fad dieters. Someone just starting out and seeing results, like the water weight loss that usually occurs at the start of a low carb diet, might be excited and think this is the time it will work..when they've failed doing other diets. It's understandable (kind of) when people don't bother to educate themselves any further than what to do. They don't care about the why..as long as it's working.
My dinner last night was homemade broccoli cheddar soup, chicken breast baked with a ranch, panko, and cheese 'breading,' and bacon. That was 620 calories for one meal. It's just as easy to go over calories (leading to weight gain) low carbing as it is doing whatever else... (Unless you're like me and have a medical condition then it's easier with carbs but not because low carb is magic or anything.) If you eat over maintenence you gain. I don't care what you're eating.
Some are new, and some are other people intentionally twisting what's been said to make it sound like they're eating at a surplus, when all they are really saying is that they get full a hell of a lot faster on high fat than they do on high carb (which is true for anyone). "As much as you want" does not equate to "everything on the table." Read back through all these arguments, though, and you'll see a lot of people making that assumption.
There may be some disconnect for those who cannot eat until they feel full on their current WOE, so can't imagine that it doesn't work that way for everyone else. Similar to those who think if something doesn't work for them, personally, it cannot possibly work for anyone else.
I understand there are a lot of people making that assumption..but it still comes down to the fact that they're new and/or ignorant. Someone who educates themselves on the subject would never claim they can magically eat all the food..or increase calories and still lose at the same rate.
And when I say educate..I mean seriously educate with science not Dr. Google.
I try not to get worked up over people who don't know any better. Tell them the information you have and why they're incorrect. Try to point them in the right direction. If they're willing to learn, awesome. If not, well..that's on them.0 -
For low carb, stick to protein shakes (low in carb and sugar), protein bars, lean turkey, lean chicken, eggs, cheese, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, sugar free popsicles for sweet cravings, wheat tortillas, saltines if you must have carbs and lots of water and crystal light. Red meat is not recommended, but you can in moderation. Shrimp and fish is ideal. You can do a low carb diet and eat clean without all that fat and nastyiness like the Atkins Diet portrayed.0
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For low carb, stick to protein shakes (low in carb and sugar), protein bars, lean turkey, lean chicken, eggs, cheese, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, sugar free popsicles for sweet cravings, wheat tortillas, saltines if you must have carbs and lots of water and crystal light. Red meat is not recommended, but you can in moderation. Shrimp and fish is ideal. You can do a low carb diet and eat clean without all that fat and nastyiness like the Atkins Diet portrayed.
If you're going to do low carb, then you need to have high fat. If you don't then that protein will be converted and used for energy.0 -
Here's the last 10 days. TDEE would be 2362 cal/day from IIFYM calculator.
2/27 - 302
2/28 - 1402
3/1 - 1948
3/2 - 0
3/3 - 1231
3/4 - 638
3/5 - 2001
3/6 - 1320
3/8 - 2080
What are you trying to figure out?
I understand eating this way *seems* to be working for you right now, but I would be careful because this seems slightly eating disorder-ed, you may want to talk to a doctor or someone about your diet
(If this offends anyone just ignore it)
On another note, I can't believe I read 11 pages of this thread.0 -
For low carb, stick to protein shakes (low in carb and sugar), protein bars, lean turkey, lean chicken, eggs, cheese, milk, yogurt, cottage cheese, sugar free popsicles for sweet cravings, wheat tortillas, saltines if you must have carbs and lots of water and crystal light. Red meat is not recommended, but you can in moderation. Shrimp and fish is ideal. You can do a low carb diet and eat clean without all that fat and nastyiness like the Atkins Diet portrayed.
For most, low carb and high protein isn't ideal.
I need low carb high fat0 -
Really? are we back to that nonsense? If you are eating low carb then you are eating low calorie...
why ? It's fairly trivial for me to eat my TDEE without going over 30 grams of carbohydrate. Bacon and egg is zero carb so I could have 500 or more calories of that. No carbs in steak, butter, cheese. Nuts are low - 600 calories of almonds for 7 grams etc.
It's true to say that many low carb dieters voluntarily reduce calorie intake even when told to eat ad lib, but equally there are low carbers maintaining weight.
never said low carbers could not maintain, so not sure where you are getting that notion from.
what I said is that low carb = CICO …so if you're losing you are in a deficit, if you are maintaining you are in maintenance, etc…
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Exactly, there is too much bulls**t around low carbs, people saying its magic and you don't have to restrict yourself with what you eat, that CICO doesn't apply for low carbers and such.mamapeach910 wrote: »
They can, sort of...christinev297 wrote: »My issue is that a lot of low carbers claim they can eat as much they want and still lose weight as long as they keep their carbs low.
As yet I haven't seen a simple straight forward answer to this...
In other words, low carbers are exempt from calorie counting.
But what they don't realize, or won't admit to, is that going low carb tends to squash ones appetite. So in effect, what they "want" still leaves them in a calorie deficit.
For some, it might squash the appetite effectively. For emotional eaters? Not enough.
Raises hand.
The point I'm trying to make is that there has to be more said, up front, in low carbing circles, that stresses the importance of CICO because it's NOT magic for everyone. People overeat for a variety of reasons. It's not all hormones.
I am currently eating low carbs but only because I found through experimentation that protein and fat is more filling for me than carbs. When I eat mashed potatoes or pasta, I am hungry again shortly after and that doesn't happen to me when I eat, say, a steak with a green leaf salad.
So, low carbs work for me because it helps me feeling full for longer, but they are just another "tool" in the toolset to help me stay in a calory deficit and don't feel hungry all the time. But I know that at the end of the day if you want to loose weight its all about CICO so as you said, if you are an emotional eater or have bad habits like binging a lot, low carbs or high carbs don't matter if you eat at or over maintenance you wont lose weight!0 -
it would be nice if OP came back and read through this page…..but I think she is long gone...0
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AfricazMost wrote: »With that being said Mark Haub, a professor at Kansas State University, went on a "convenience store" diet which mainly consisted of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos to demonstrate that counting calories is what matters most in weight loss, not the nutritional value in food. He lost 27 pounds in only two months.
That experiment is often mentioned here, unfortunately. Anyway, what amazes me more is how a nutrition professor could actually be at least 27 pounds overweight (unless he gained on purpose before).0 -
Gianfranco_R wrote: »AfricazMost wrote: »With that being said Mark Haub, a professor at Kansas State University, went on a "convenience store" diet which mainly consisted of Twinkies, Oreos, and Doritos to demonstrate that counting calories is what matters most in weight loss, not the nutritional value in food. He lost 27 pounds in only two months.
That experiment is often mentioned here, unfortunately. Anyway, what amazes me more is how a nutrition professor could actually be at least 27 pounds overweight (unless he gained on purpose before).
degree in nutrition does not equal that one has a healthy weight..
isn't it in england or somewhere where their health department minister is actually "obese"..???0 -
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