Low carb dieters!
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mastakoala wrote: »Oops, I forgot to mention that the expanded plot was with olive oil
yes, so not an expanded plot but in fact a different one altogether.
I posted it to show that over 30 days the weight gain of adding 3000 calories of oil was about zero. So it's an example of where the usual use of CICO as "Weight gain = Food intake - x" doesn't work out. Hence my uncertainty of whether I would gain weight or not in ndj's proposed experiment. Seems it would depend what I ate rather than just on the number of calories.
I do not see why it is misleading, the oil was added to a mixed baseline diet and the weight didn't go up. It isn't a unique report of this effect either. A different oil had a different outcome +1/3 of a lb per day for +3700 calories/day but this too falls a country mile short of the CICO doctrine of "500 calories = 1 lb/week".
I don't have an explanation for the effect observed, but I don't think the universe changed since 1973.0 -
jennibean40 wrote: »Yeah if you can find where i said that you can quote me.
Unfortunately, what i ACTUALLY said was i struggled to lose weight on a low calorie diet alone (NOT that i didnt. I said i lost 2-3lbs). And that low carb has improved my results substantially. I also stated that my calories are indeed still low... not bc i bother to try and keep them low, but bc consuming low carb foods results in lower calories. Since my last post on here i have increased my calories by 200 a day and am still experiencing weight loss.
All i ever said was that low carb has made a big difference in MY (me myself i) results. I do not claim it is superior. I do not claim it is for everyone. I believe different types of diets work for different people... hence why even learned scientists still cant agree on every point. To each their own! Happy fitness travels!
I'm with you. I have experience better results since I have restricted my carbs. I feel better phycially and metally, and once I got used to it, its quite easy to follow. I notice when I sneak in a high carb snack (bread, pasta etc.), I immediately feel tired. For me high protein and vegatables are much more sustaining. I don't even need a snack between meals.
Still struggle with my night time munchies. I think that is more of a mental thing.
If it's working for you, stick with it. "If" it stops working, look at changing things then.
Good luck.0 -
Marianne802 wrote: »jennibean40 wrote: »I have experience better results since I have restricted my carbs. I feel better phycially and metally, and once I got used to it, its quite easy to follow.
Me too - if it works, it works. I like low carb and plan to stick with it. Good luck
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Could be the toilet factor. j/kmastakoala wrote: »Oops, I forgot to mention that the expanded plot was with olive oil
yes, so not an expanded plot but in fact a different one altogether.
I posted it to show that over 30 days the weight gain of adding 3000 calories of oil was about zero. So it's an example of where the usual use of CICO as "Weight gain = Food intake - x" doesn't work out. Hence my uncertainty of whether I would gain weight or not in ndj's proposed experiment. Seems it would depend what I ate rather than just on the number of calories.
I do not see why it is misleading, the oil was added to a mixed baseline diet and the weight didn't go up. It isn't a unique report of this effect either. A different oil had a different outcome +1/3 of a lb per day for +3700 calories/day but this too falls a country mile short of the CICO doctrine of "500 calories = 1 lb/week".
I don't have an explanation for the effect observed, but I don't think the universe changed since 1973.
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jennibean40 wrote: »Let me rephrase.. i dont keep track of calories. Any diet will restrict calories to some degree. If you go low carb.. you automatically cut out calorie high foods. So yes your calorie count goes down. But say i consume 1200 calories a day that include high carbs... my weight loss slows (practically stops) as compared to a 1200 calorie diet that is low in carbs and i lose .5-.6 lbs a day. The only difference is the carb count. Therefore the restriction of carbs is what helps the weight come off.
My body responds the same. If I eat 1200 calorie diet with high carbs, my weight loss is minimal. If I chose high protein, low carb foods, my weight loss is much faster. I eat mostly chicken, fish, Greek yogurt, nuts, and lots of veggies. I also carb cycle to keep my metabolism from stalling. Seems to work for me better than any other food plan I've tried.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »
Could be the toilet factor. j/kmastakoala wrote: »Oops, I forgot to mention that the expanded plot was with olive oil
yes, so not an expanded plot but in fact a different one altogether.
I posted it to show that over 30 days the weight gain of adding 3000 calories of oil was about zero. So it's an example of where the usual use of CICO as "Weight gain = Food intake - x" doesn't work out. Hence my uncertainty of whether I would gain weight or not in ndj's proposed experiment. Seems it would depend what I ate rather than just on the number of calories.
I do not see why it is misleading, the oil was added to a mixed baseline diet and the weight didn't go up. It isn't a unique report of this effect either. A different oil had a different outcome +1/3 of a lb per day for +3700 calories/day but this too falls a country mile short of the CICO doctrine of "500 calories = 1 lb/week".
I don't have an explanation for the effect observed, but I don't think the universe changed since 1973.
You say you're joking but I don't want to know what kinds of *kitten* someone has who has to add 3000 calories of olive oil additionally to their normal diet.
By the same token you could say laxatives and rotten food are good for weight loss.0 -
Yeah, the digestion part seems to mess people up when it comes to the math. Definitely still part of the "out side" of the EBEstevencloser wrote: »neanderthin wrote: »
Could be the toilet factor. j/kmastakoala wrote: »Oops, I forgot to mention that the expanded plot was with olive oil
yes, so not an expanded plot but in fact a different one altogether.
I posted it to show that over 30 days the weight gain of adding 3000 calories of oil was about zero. So it's an example of where the usual use of CICO as "Weight gain = Food intake - x" doesn't work out. Hence my uncertainty of whether I would gain weight or not in ndj's proposed experiment. Seems it would depend what I ate rather than just on the number of calories.
I do not see why it is misleading, the oil was added to a mixed baseline diet and the weight didn't go up. It isn't a unique report of this effect either. A different oil had a different outcome +1/3 of a lb per day for +3700 calories/day but this too falls a country mile short of the CICO doctrine of "500 calories = 1 lb/week".
I don't have an explanation for the effect observed, but I don't think the universe changed since 1973.
You say you're joking but I don't want to know what kinds of *kitten* someone has who has to add 3000 calories of olive oil additionally to their normal diet.
By the same token you could say laxatives and rotten food are good for weight loss.
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OP.....
This thread is all confusing
Tbh, I view low-card dieting as short term diet. However, whatever works for you kiddo. 0 -
So I'm starting a low carb diet and I've been reading a lot of what everyone is saying.. So why do people view this as "bad" for the body?? I mean I know we need carb for energy to even workout but high makes a person gain weight or hard to lose. Any opinion on this??0
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sandratampa wrote: »jennibean40 wrote: »Let me rephrase.. i dont keep track of calories. Any diet will restrict calories to some degree. If you go low carb.. you automatically cut out calorie high foods. So yes your calorie count goes down. But say i consume 1200 calories a day that include high carbs... my weight loss slows (practically stops) as compared to a 1200 calorie diet that is low in carbs and i lose .5-.6 lbs a day. The only difference is the carb count. Therefore the restriction of carbs is what helps the weight come off.
My body responds the same. If I eat 1200 calorie diet with high carbs, my weight loss is minimal. If I chose high protein, low carb foods, my weight loss is much faster. I eat mostly chicken, fish, Greek yogurt, nuts, and lots of veggies. I also carb cycle to keep my metabolism from stalling. Seems to work for me better than any other food plan I've tried.
sorry it does not work that way ….
1200 vs 1200 is 1200 ….low carb/high carb does not matter. Unless you have a medical condition ...0 -
Infivemonths wrote: »So I'm starting a low carb diet and I've been reading a lot of what everyone is saying.. So why do people view this as "bad" for the body?? I mean I know we need carb for energy to even workout but high makes a person gain weight or hard to lose. Any opinion on this??
it is not bad. If you want to do low carb and it works for you more power to you.
Just don't claim that you are not restricting calories, you are not in a deficit, or are not following CICO …
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Infivemonths wrote: »So I'm starting a low carb diet and I've been reading a lot of what everyone is saying.. So why do people view this as "bad" for the body?? I mean I know we need carb for energy to even workout but high makes a person gain weight or hard to lose. Any opinion on this??
Nobody who is educated about it views it as bad for the body. That's scare-mongering pseudoscience. People like to nitpick and argue about what people mean when they talk about, but all it is is a way of maintaining a calorie amount, with or without actually counting the calories. Go to the group that was linked back on page one and read their launch pad for realistic info.0 -
jennibean40 wrote: »The best way ive found to drop lbs without pills or starving! Anyone else use this method? Interested in ideas, recipes, and success stories!
In answer to your question jenny (if you still following this post), I have had success with losing weight and fat, and gained muscle following a low carb diet. I too would like some more recipe ideas. I already eat grilled chicken, tuna, salmon, eggs and protein shakes, but would like to make it more interesting.0 -
neanderthin wrote: »Could be the toilet factor. j/k
they did look at fat absorption in the paper. Wasn't that, or at least not the whole story.
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Infivemonths wrote: »So I'm starting a low carb diet and I've been reading a lot of what everyone is saying.. So why do people view this as "bad" for the body?? I mean I know we need carb for energy to even workout but high makes a person gain weight or hard to lose. Any opinion on this??
Why people view it as bad ? well the misconception "we need carb for energy to even workout" would be a starting point. If you believe that and have a "workout" then you would see low carb as bad.0 -
mastakoala wrote: »Hey - I've read the study that the image (hosted through a blogspot article) you posted is from - for those who are curious here's the link: http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/26/2/197.full.pdf
Here's an expansion on that plot:
This study took place in 1973, when many of the mechanisms of lipid and protein breakdown were not as well-understood as they are today. The study showed that the human body is very good at "switching over" to fat breakdown. The study also showed that simply a switch in calories to primarily fat calories without reducing caloric intake did not lead to sustained weight loss. Note that the study was not long-term, the period of high sustained weight loss was in the introductory phase of the diet, and weight loss was achieved most effectively when a caloric deficit was maintained.
Initial weight loss during this study can be explained in two ways (knowing what we do today about metabolism): (1) Initial consumption of glycogen stores leading to excretion of water - this can be up to several lbs. (2) Actual caloric deficit as the human body takes several days to ramp up fatty acid-oxidizing enzymes. This means that in the early days of a high fat intake, you absolutely will see detectable fat loss, but it won't continue at this rate as your liver gets better at dealing with fats.
Unfortunately, the picture you posted is misleading and many articles take that study out of context or fail to state the entirety of the study. In reality, the study does not disprove the CICO "rule" - it helps to confirm it, but adds the (very necessary) nuance that the "calorie out" part of CICO has a lot to do with how quickly your body can adapt to a dietary change in the short term.
I wish I could absorb everything you know. Thank you for this.
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Marianne802 wrote: »jennibean40 wrote: »Yeah if you can find where i said that you can quote me.
Unfortunately, what i ACTUALLY said was i struggled to lose weight on a low calorie diet alone (NOT that i didnt. I said i lost 2-3lbs). And that low carb has improved my results substantially. I also stated that my calories are indeed still low... not bc i bother to try and keep them low, but bc consuming low carb foods results in lower calories. Since my last post on here i have increased my calories by 200 a day and am still experiencing weight loss.
All i ever said was that low carb has made a big difference in MY (me myself i) results. I do not claim it is superior. I do not claim it is for everyone. I believe different types of diets work for different people... hence why even learned scientists still cant agree on every point. To each their own! Happy fitness travels!
I'm with you. I have experience better results since I have restricted my carbs. I feel better phycially and metally, and once I got used to it, its quite easy to follow. I notice when I sneak in a high carb snack (bread, pasta etc.), I immediately feel tired. For me high protein and vegatables are much more sustaining. I don't even need a snack between meals.
Still struggle with my night time munchies. I think that is more of a mental thing.
If it's working for you, stick with it. "If" it stops working, look at changing things then.
Good luck.
Are you getting enough fat with your last meal? Even though I don't low-carb (I'm a moderate carber), I find that having enough fat with my dinner keeps me sated and cuts that after dinner munchie thing.
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[quote
Are you getting enough fat with your last meal? Even though I don't low-carb (I'm a moderate carber), I find that having enough fat with my dinner keeps me sated and cuts that after dinner munchie thing.
[/quote]
Yes I'm getting plenty. It is all in my head. I could have just finished dinner but as soon as I sit down and relax in front of the telly, I want to pick.
I blame it on being allowed to eat dinner in front of the telly growing up. Now it is a learned trigger - sit in front of TV = eat. Same concept of a dog that is used to eating when it hears a bell, it automatically starts salivating, bell = food. Thats my take on it anyway.
I have tried distractions such as a cup of camimile tea or water. This does work until I finish it. I could just go to bed early but I don't want to. Kids are gone to be and its my time.0 -
Marianne802 wrote: »
Are you getting enough fat with your last meal? Even though I don't low-carb (I'm a moderate carber), I find that having enough fat with my dinner keeps me sated and cuts that after dinner munchie thing.
Yes I'm getting plenty. It is all in my head. I could have just finished dinner but as soon as I sit down and relax in front of the telly, I want to pick.
I blame it on being allowed to eat dinner in front of the telly growing up. Now it is a learned trigger - sit in front of TV = eat. Same concept of a dog that is used to eating when it hears a bell, it automatically starts salivating, bell = food. Thats my take on it anyway.
I have tried distractions such as a cup of camimile tea or water. This does work until I finish it. I could just go to bed early but I don't want to. Kids are gone to be and its my time.
I hear you on that one. Now that my kids are a bit older, it's so sad. I go to bed sometimes before they do.
There is hope now that you know it's just down to behavior, though. Good luck!
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Seriously 16 pages of arguing WITHOUT low carbers seeing the ONLY argument by the majority of CICO people is NOT that low carb is wrong, doesn't work, evil, or barbaric It DOES work, wonderfully in fact.... as long as there is a calorie deficit. End of story. Choose what you like to eat. No carbs or everything in moderation. Keep a deficit and lose weight. YAY we all win! Why do low carbers feel they are being attacked? Or feel the need to defend the OP? This is just an open discussion the problem lies in the fact that people fail to see that there is no point in arguing. Science is science. Facts are facts. A deficit ensures weight loss (medical conditions being an exception I am sure) Choose how to create your deficit and enjoy. If anyone disagrees with the deficit "theory" please track your calories, weigh and log accurately and come back in 4 months and lets see if you have in fact lost weight with NO CALORIE DEFICIT by eating low carb 0
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