Alternative to weight training for muscle maintenance?
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He's lifting up those 10 kg but they're at the end of a stick. Lifting it like that is exponentially harder than just lifting the 10 kg straight up. Even though it's both the same weight (minus the stick).0
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stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »So what you are saying is that if some doesn't do Ashtanga yoga then the yoga they do does not count because the yoga they are doing doesn't count?
Uh... no, what I said was that I assumed you didn't practice Ashtanga yoga; my assumption was based on the fact that you are apparently unaware that it is a vigourous practice that builds strength and incorporates a form of progressive resistance training.
How can it provide progressive resistance training with no weight being added?
I wonder if it's more of an endurance exercise?
Leverage I guess. A worse lever leads to more power being required to lift the same amount of weight.
huh?
BEHOLD MY PAINT SKILLS
Well done, sir!
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Unfortunately, whenever you lose fat, you lose muscle also. It's just part of life. I keep my protein up, but everyones different. A larger amount of muscle mass will lead to a higher metabolic rate, so strength or volume training is a good idea combined with HIIT. These will elevate your metabolic rate, and make it easier to burn fat. Providing you cut simple carbs/sugar (fruits are OK, apples have fibre to slow digestion and fructose is processed by the liver before absorption and not just taken straight from the intestinal tract), eat lean meats and healthy fats I wouldn't worry too much, just ensure your not in a massive calorie deficit, as your body might want to break down muscle quicker for energy.0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Lol. Yea okay. You keep telling yourself that. And to say that yoga is weight training that's just absurd.
Ha ha ha – I must say, that's a typical comment from someone whose knowledge of yoga is limited to some imagined stereotype of ladies lying on the floor or chanting 'ohm'. (:-)
Ashtanga yoga is similar in ways to calisthenics or gymnastics training – it builds core strength, functional strength and power using the bodyweight as resistance, and this is an example of the kind of physique it can build when one has worked up to the advanced poses:
(These photos aren't of me, obviously, that is Kino MacGregor.)
I am not saying that is not difficult..but that does not make it the same as lifting progressively heavier things. Your body weight is your body weight and once you adjust to putting it in different poses you have maxed out any benefit that you were getting.
In a progressive lifting routine you can continually add weight so, in essence, you never max out...
That's where goals come in play. For some people they just want to be strong enough to do certain things (advanced poses in this case - which takes years), others are happy to maintain their current muscle mass while others just want to look good. Even progressive lifting hits a wall after a long while because the human body has physical limits. Granted it's does build much more lifting strength than body weight training (which builds greater functional strength and balance), but lifting strength is not everyone's goal and that's alright.
you kind of just moved the goal posts.
You tried to say that yoga = progressive overload, and now you are saying it depends on goals..
I agree that it depends on goals..
but you will have a hard time convincing me that yoga = progressive lifting...
That's not really what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that there are different ways to preserve and strengthen muscles with progressive muscle adaptation. The way a person chooses depends on their goals. Yoga is not lifting, no. I never said that. What I said is that some kinds of yoga can be a strength and resistance exercise. Strength training is not limited to conventional weight lifting.
I believe you said it's progressive resistance training, which implies that there is an increase in "resistance". I don't do yoga because it hurts my body, but I have no doubt it has many benefits. It just doesn't seem to fit into progressive resistance training because there is no increase in body weight.
In body weight as a whole no, but in the amount of resistance placed on a muscle group by adopting a pose that places more of the body weight on the said muscle group. Look at the crow pose progression for example:
In the first picture both the arms and the legs are sharing the body weight load, you can see how the load is gradually (progressively) switched to the arms and more core strength is being created (progressively) in every step because the amount of weight the core has to lift increases.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Lol. Yea okay. You keep telling yourself that. And to say that yoga is weight training that's just absurd.
Ha ha ha – I must say, that's a typical comment from someone whose knowledge of yoga is limited to some imagined stereotype of ladies lying on the floor or chanting 'ohm'. (:-)
Ashtanga yoga is similar in ways to calisthenics or gymnastics training – it builds core strength, functional strength and power using the bodyweight as resistance, and this is an example of the kind of physique it can build when one has worked up to the advanced poses:
(These photos aren't of me, obviously, that is Kino MacGregor.)
I am not saying that is not difficult..but that does not make it the same as lifting progressively heavier things. Your body weight is your body weight and once you adjust to putting it in different poses you have maxed out any benefit that you were getting.
In a progressive lifting routine you can continually add weight so, in essence, you never max out...
That's where goals come in play. For some people they just want to be strong enough to do certain things (advanced poses in this case - which takes years), others are happy to maintain their current muscle mass while others just want to look good. Even progressive lifting hits a wall after a long while because the human body has physical limits. Granted it's does build much more lifting strength than body weight training (which builds greater functional strength and balance), but lifting strength is not everyone's goal and that's alright.
you kind of just moved the goal posts.
You tried to say that yoga = progressive overload, and now you are saying it depends on goals..
I agree that it depends on goals..
but you will have a hard time convincing me that yoga = progressive lifting...
That's not really what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that there are different ways to preserve and strengthen muscles with progressive muscle adaptation. The way a person chooses depends on their goals. Yoga is not lifting, no. I never said that. What I said is that some kinds of yoga can be a strength and resistance exercise. Strength training is not limited to conventional weight lifting.
I believe you said it's progressive resistance training, which implies that there is an increase in "resistance". I don't do yoga because it hurts my body, but I have no doubt it has many benefits. It just doesn't seem to fit into progressive resistance training because there is no increase in body weight.
In body weight as a whole no, but in the amount of resistance placed on a muscle group by adopting a pose that places more of the body weight on the said muscle group. Look at the crow pose progression for example:
In the first picture both the arms and the legs are sharing the body weight load, you can see how the load is gradually (progressively) switched to the arms and more core strength is being created (progressively) in every step because the amount of weight the core has to lift increases.
ummm you are still lifting the same weight, which is the persons body weight…..0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »huh?
I don't know anything about yoga but with push-ups, for example, you gradually raise your feet at an angle until you're doing handstand push-ups.
Idk that it would be enough to build new muscle (not saying it isn't, I just don't know) but that's how programs like You Are Your Own Gym create progressive overload.
Yes, exactly, or with the handstand itself, there is a progression where you gradually increase the amount of your own bodyweight you are lifting and/or the angle you're lifting at:
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Lol. Yea okay. You keep telling yourself that. And to say that yoga is weight training that's just absurd.
Ha ha ha – I must say, that's a typical comment from someone whose knowledge of yoga is limited to some imagined stereotype of ladies lying on the floor or chanting 'ohm'. (:-)
Ashtanga yoga is similar in ways to calisthenics or gymnastics training – it builds core strength, functional strength and power using the bodyweight as resistance, and this is an example of the kind of physique it can build when one has worked up to the advanced poses:
(These photos aren't of me, obviously, that is Kino MacGregor.)
I am not saying that is not difficult..but that does not make it the same as lifting progressively heavier things. Your body weight is your body weight and once you adjust to putting it in different poses you have maxed out any benefit that you were getting.
In a progressive lifting routine you can continually add weight so, in essence, you never max out...
That's where goals come in play. For some people they just want to be strong enough to do certain things (advanced poses in this case - which takes years), others are happy to maintain their current muscle mass while others just want to look good. Even progressive lifting hits a wall after a long while because the human body has physical limits. Granted it's does build much more lifting strength than body weight training (which builds greater functional strength and balance), but lifting strength is not everyone's goal and that's alright.
you kind of just moved the goal posts.
You tried to say that yoga = progressive overload, and now you are saying it depends on goals..
I agree that it depends on goals..
but you will have a hard time convincing me that yoga = progressive lifting...
That's not really what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that there are different ways to preserve and strengthen muscles with progressive muscle adaptation. The way a person chooses depends on their goals. Yoga is not lifting, no. I never said that. What I said is that some kinds of yoga can be a strength and resistance exercise. Strength training is not limited to conventional weight lifting.
I believe you said it's progressive resistance training, which implies that there is an increase in "resistance". I don't do yoga because it hurts my body, but I have no doubt it has many benefits. It just doesn't seem to fit into progressive resistance training because there is no increase in body weight.
In body weight as a whole no, but in the amount of resistance placed on a muscle group by adopting a pose that places more of the body weight on the said muscle group. Look at the crow pose progression for example:
In the first picture both the arms and the legs are sharing the body weight load, you can see how the load is gradually (progressively) switched to the arms and more core strength is being created (progressively) in every step because the amount of weight the core has to lift increases.
ummm you are still lifting the same weight, which is the persons body weight…..
Alright, if that was not enough to explain maybe something closer to home: can you do single leg squats with the same weight you do conventional squats? The answer is no, because in the first case your leg is technically carrying more weight on that leg and subjecting it to a higher overload even though the weight is the same.0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »
[No increase] in body weight as a whole no, but in the amount of resistance placed on a muscle group by adopting a pose that places more of the body weight on the said muscle group. Look at the crow pose progression for example:
In the first picture both the arms and the legs are sharing the body weight load, you can see how the load is gradually (progressively) switched to the arms and more core strength is being created (progressively) in every step because the amount of weight the core has to lift increases.
That is a perfect explanation! Thank you.
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My question is what happens once you can do a one-handed handstand push-up?0
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amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »Chrysalid2014 wrote: »Lol. Yea okay. You keep telling yourself that. And to say that yoga is weight training that's just absurd.
Ha ha ha – I must say, that's a typical comment from someone whose knowledge of yoga is limited to some imagined stereotype of ladies lying on the floor or chanting 'ohm'. (:-)
Ashtanga yoga is similar in ways to calisthenics or gymnastics training – it builds core strength, functional strength and power using the bodyweight as resistance, and this is an example of the kind of physique it can build when one has worked up to the advanced poses:
(These photos aren't of me, obviously, that is Kino MacGregor.)
I am not saying that is not difficult..but that does not make it the same as lifting progressively heavier things. Your body weight is your body weight and once you adjust to putting it in different poses you have maxed out any benefit that you were getting.
In a progressive lifting routine you can continually add weight so, in essence, you never max out...
That's where goals come in play. For some people they just want to be strong enough to do certain things (advanced poses in this case - which takes years), others are happy to maintain their current muscle mass while others just want to look good. Even progressive lifting hits a wall after a long while because the human body has physical limits. Granted it's does build much more lifting strength than body weight training (which builds greater functional strength and balance), but lifting strength is not everyone's goal and that's alright.
you kind of just moved the goal posts.
You tried to say that yoga = progressive overload, and now you are saying it depends on goals..
I agree that it depends on goals..
but you will have a hard time convincing me that yoga = progressive lifting...
That's not really what I'm saying, what I'm saying is that there are different ways to preserve and strengthen muscles with progressive muscle adaptation. The way a person chooses depends on their goals. Yoga is not lifting, no. I never said that. What I said is that some kinds of yoga can be a strength and resistance exercise. Strength training is not limited to conventional weight lifting.
I believe you said it's progressive resistance training, which implies that there is an increase in "resistance". I don't do yoga because it hurts my body, but I have no doubt it has many benefits. It just doesn't seem to fit into progressive resistance training because there is no increase in body weight.
In body weight as a whole no, but in the amount of resistance placed on a muscle group by adopting a pose that places more of the body weight on the said muscle group. Look at the crow pose progression for example:
In the first picture both the arms and the legs are sharing the body weight load, you can see how the load is gradually (progressively) switched to the arms and more core strength is being created (progressively) in every step because the amount of weight the core has to lift increases.
ummm you are still lifting the same weight, which is the persons body weight…..
Alright, if that was not enough to explain maybe something closer to home: can you do single leg squats with the same weight you do conventional squats? The answer is no, because in the first case your leg is technically carrying more weight on that leg and subjecting it to a higher overload even though the weight is the same.
still does not make yoga = progressive weight training…
sorry.0 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »My question is what happens once you can do a one-handed handstand push-up?
More things happen, like working on more challenging variations like this one
The change in the center of gravity makes it more challenging.
Now every kind strength training method has a hypothetical wall where further progression is not possible and the focus shifts to different aspects like developing different lifts in the case of weight lifting, holding a pose longer and perfecting the technique in the case of yoga..etc.0 -
Yoga and kickboxing are my go tos right now. I have to do what's fun so I will keep it up!0
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ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »My question is what happens once you can do a one-handed handstand push-up?
No hands?
If you can pull that off I'll actually start doing yoga.
No, I won't. I hate yoga. But I can appreciate it's benefits (especially if levitation is one of them!)0 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »My question is what happens once you can do a one-handed handstand push-up?
More things happen, like working on more challenging variations like this one
The change in the center of gravity makes it more challenging.
Now every kind strength training method has a hypothetical wall where further progression is not possible and the focus shifts to different aspects like developing different lifts in the case of weight lifting, holding a pose longer and perfecting the technique in the case of yoga..etc.
That's impressive.0 -
Chrysalid2014 wrote: »
I would be in the hospital if I tried that!! LOL0 -
I do simple yoga only very (very) occasionally (did I mention only occasionally). But I lift weights regularly. With that aside . . .
I don't think anyone is arguing that progressive resistance training requires using weights, or am I wrong?
The question you all seem to batting back and forth is how much this form of yoga is capable of producing the same stimuli as a weight-based progressive resistance training program. I don't know the answer to this (but am mildly curious) because I don't know this specific yoga program, don't know how much the resistance comes in the form of moving weight, holding under tension, yada, yada, yada.
But most of my weight-lifting compadres have a very healthy respect for bodyweight exercises, right? And surely there are bodyweight routines that can (1) help retain lean mass (as OP wants) and (2) even add muscle mass under the right circumstances. Not sure where the disagreement is without more specific details about why this particular form of yoga might be / might not be an effective form of resistance training.
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I do simple yoga only very (very) occasionally (did I mention only occasionally). But I lift weights regularly. With that aside . . .
I don't think anyone is arguing that progressive resistance training requires using weights, or am I wrong?
The question you all seem to batting back and forth is how much this form of yoga is capable of producing the same stimuli as a weight-based progressive resistance training program. I don't know the answer to this (but am mildly curious) because I don't know this specific yoga program, don't know how much the resistance comes in the form of moving weight, holding under tension, yada, yada, yada.
But most of my weight-lifting compadres have a very healthy respect for bodyweight exercises, right? And surely there are bodyweight routines that can (1) help retain lean mass (as OP wants) and (2) even add muscle mass under the right circumstances. Not sure where the disagreement is without more specific details about why this particular form of yoga might be / might not be an effective form of resistance training.
The answer to your question is that it doesn't produce the same exact stimuli as weight lifting (and they were actually arguing that yoga is not progressive resistance training because it does not involve increased weight). That particular type of yoga usually focuses more on isometric strength so although it does have a muscle reserving/increasing and strength increasing effect it does not produce as much size.
I can venture and say that the disagreement may have roots in the fact that yoga is generally seen as a flexibility/stability exercise but the strength aspect of it is rarely talked about.0 -
I do simple yoga only very (very) occasionally (did I mention only occasionally). But I lift weights regularly. With that aside . . .
I don't think anyone is arguing that progressive resistance training requires using weights, or am I wrong?
The question you all seem to batting back and forth is how much this form of yoga is capable of producing the same stimuli as a weight-based progressive resistance training program. I don't know the answer to this (but am mildly curious) because I don't know this specific yoga program, don't know how much the resistance comes in the form of moving weight, holding under tension, yada, yada, yada.
But most of my weight-lifting compadres have a very healthy respect for bodyweight exercises, right? And surely there are bodyweight routines that can (1) help retain lean mass (as OP wants) and (2) even add muscle mass under the right circumstances. Not sure where the disagreement is without more specific details about why this particular form of yoga might be / might not be an effective form of resistance training.
I'm curious too, as I have always read that one can retain lean mass and possibly even add some with body weight as long as there is progressive overload.0
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