OHP in squat rack?
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
Didn't you go into a distance running thread a while back and tell someone the way to improve their running was to carry heavy rocks?
Lol, no. That would have been funny though. Someone was asking about other ways to improve their conditioning aside from running and I said HIIT was useful and suggested a list of ways to do HIIT, one of which was weighted carries.0 -
OP explicitly stated his goal was to avoid cleans.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
Your advice? Do cleans.
There's really nothing to retort. Your own posts and posting style speaks for itself.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
OP explicitly stated his goal was to avoid cleans.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
Your advice? Do cleans.
There's really nothing to retort. Your own posts and posting style speaks for itself.
I was wondering how long it'd take for someone to point that out.
A lot longer than expected...0 -
Well, I kinda pointed that out on page 5.0
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
OP explicitly stated his goal was to avoid cleans.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
Your advice? Do cleans.
There's really nothing to retort. Your own posts and posting style speaks for itself.
Yes, the op asked how to get around doing cleans and I said to not get around them, do them, because they are beneficial and will make you a stronger person overall. I would have said the same thing if someone asked how to get around doing squats, or deadlifts, etc.... unless that person was injured in some way that prevented them from safely performing the movement.
If there is one thing that I have learned in my years as a strength coach it is that good advice is seldom the advice that clients want to hear. I think this thread definitely proves that to be true.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
I don't insist that at all. You just put those words in my mouth.
I do; however, logically conclude that a person who is lifting weights would like to cause some form of physical benefit from doing so.
really???
your whole argument in this thread has been that the only reason to do OHP is to get strong so that you can lift a box over your head....now you are saying that is not what you have been arguing???????????0 -
herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
I don't insist that at all. You just put those words in my mouth.
I do; however, logically conclude that a person who is lifting weights would like to cause some form of physical benefit from doing so.
really???
your whole argument in this thread has been that the only reason to do OHP is to get strong so that you can lift a box over your head....now you are saying that is not what you have been arguing???????????
Lol, you're good at trying to twist up what people say to make it sound ridiculous. I will give you that. The only problem is that you had to twist it up to make it sound that way because that is not how I argued it. Nice try though.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
OP explicitly stated his goal was to avoid cleans.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
I honestly don't get your point. The purpose of the OHP is to work my delts, triceps, core, and some other bits. The purpose of a clean is explosive strength involving the legs, core, and various other bits... but not really the delts or triceps.
They are not the same thing, in fact they aren't even related.
I never argued that they were the same. My point was that the OP is lifting weights so they must therefore intend on becoming stronger or developing more muscle. Cleaning the weight will only aid in those efforts and will keep the squat rack clear for other people who want to use it for its intended purpose.
Your argument about the purpose of OHP being to "work my delts, triceps, core and some other bits" doesn't make a lot of sense unless you are only lifting to have something to do. Most people expect to elicit a physical adaptation from their training; not just "work" some muscles (stating that a lift is there to "work" a muscle is on par with stating that a lift is there to "tone"). The obvious adaptations being elicited from weighted exercises are increases in strength and muscle mass.
So, by that argument, should I deadlift or rack pull the bar for bench press? Otherwise it's merely working my pectorals and triceps, not eliciting a response.
I do OHP to work the muscle groups stated. I use deadlifts, squats, bench, rows, chins, etc, to develop others. The purpose of this work to increase muscular strength. I use cleans for the development of explosive power. This is not the same objective.
Your argument is ridiculous because it implies we must combine activities to squeeze every last bit of value out of them.
Lol, Wow...
I suspect that you all do understand my point but are just trying to find ways to argue around/deflect it.
My point is that we know that the OP is trying to get stronger/build muscle because they are lifting weights. An easy way to leave the squat rack open while doing OHP's is to clean the bar. Cleaning the bar has a nice training effect of its own which will supplement the Op's goals since we have already established that the OP must want to strengthen/build muscle.
That is, unless they are joining some sort of overhead pressing out of the rack competition and they need the specificity. Can you agree with this?
what if his primary goal is body fat reduction and getting stronger is just a byproduct?
why do you insist in every one of these threads that the primary goal of everyone is to get stronger...???????
FTFY
Again, just putting words in my mouth because you don't have a valid retort to what I ACTUALLY said.
You don't see me giving advice in the distance running threads because that is not what I do. I do; however, know a lot about lifting and gaining strength so that's the area in which I offer my advice. If you don't like that advice you don't have to listen to it because I wasn't talking to you in the first place.
Your advice? Do cleans.
There's really nothing to retort. Your own posts and posting style speaks for itself.
Yes, the op asked how to get around doing cleans and I said to not get around them, do them, because they are beneficial and will make you a stronger person overall. I would have said the same thing if someone asked how to get around doing squats, or deadlifts, etc.... unless that person was injured in some way that prevented them from safely performing the movement.
If there is one thing that I have learned in my years as a strength coach it is that good advice is seldom the advice that clients want to hear. I think this thread definitely proves that to be true.
You should acknowledge that your view is pretty polarizing. Folks can still derive benefit from lifting weights without doing cleans.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
just re quoting this because yea you did say that, and I did not twist anything...0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Probably for the same variety of reasons that almost everyone else on here does OHP without cleaning the bar first. Just because someone wants to lift or become stronger doesn't mean their goal is maximizing strength at the expense of other things.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I didn't say my goal was to be strong. That's your goal. If it's fine for you to evaluate everything everyone else does based on your goal, it's only fair if I do the same. Therefore, your workout, which doesn't help you become a better diver, is a total waste of time. It won't help you do anything but wussie dives like cannonballs.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Your workout sucks because you can't dive.The big problem with doing presses out of any sort of rack is that, eventually, you will be able to press more than you can clean which is obviously weak sauce. Just clean the bar and press it over your head. You're in the gym to do work anyway so just do the work!
Diving is a far cry from being strong so your analogy was really just an immature hyperbole.
There is a good reason for cleaning the bar. Having a power clean that is equal to your overhead press insures that you have the ability to apply that overhead pressing power in a real life situation. Outside of the gym, you need to get something to your shoulders before you can press it over head. If you can't get a barbell to your shoulders before you press it, how do you expect to do the same with an awkward object like a heavy box, etc.... that is even more difficult to grip and handle than a barbell?
Why would the OP do overhead presses if they weren't at all interested in strength?
I am not talking about your goals because, frankly, I could not possibly care less about what your goals are. I am talking about the OP's goals; and the OP is lifting weights, not diving.
So they strength train but they don't want to get stronger.... That makes sense...
and you also said this...0 -
For some of us--mostly women--an OHP is way harder than a squat. I can squat 130, haven't moved beyond 45 for OHP. I'm an extreme case but it would be very difficult for me to do an OHP safely outside of a squat rack . Doing a power clean would be impossible at the point.
Obviously, I try to be considerate. My OHP reps don't take very long.0 -
Can I do overhead presses just cause I want to look better? I pay people to lift boxes for me.0
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AllanMisner wrote: »
So the movers I hired are double dipping? Are they in bed with the gym? I'm so confused.
0 -
I'm just sad because I don't have any heavy boxes that need lifting. I'm super screwed on this one I guess. I do have a car, though. Someday...0
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