My 600 Pound Life?
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Well, the doctor frequently comments about large blood vessels, but that's not an answer to your question.Okay, let's assume, then, that 150 lbs. of excess fluid is common among people in this weight range. So then what we're saying here is that the body does not need to move that bulk (whether it's water or fat), that there are no blood vessels throughout the area, and so on, and therefore, an individual of 600 lbs. is only eating the amount of calories that a 450-lb. person would eat, yet is remaining, overall, 600 lbs.? Because that was the original argument here.
And if that is indeed the argument and if it is decided it's valid, okay then, how many calories would a 450-lb. person need to eat (let's assume a female, 5'5" as a midway point) in order to maintain 450 lbs.? Because again...that was the original question.
Anyone know?
I ran it through a TDEE calculator with a 35 year old woman who is 5 feet 6 inches tall and little or no exercise. At 450 pounds she would need to eat 3307 calories for maintenance and at 600 pounds she would need 4093 calories.0 -
SnuggleSmacks wrote: »Nope. To me, shows like this smack of schadenfreude porn. I can't get entertainment out of the misfortunes of others. Plus, reality TV is the worst thing that has ever happened in the history of television.
This! X 1000.
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DearestWinter wrote: »I just plugged in some random data (5'8", female, 40 years old, 600 lbs) and it says it would take about 4k calories to maintain that weight. Which is less than I thought.
I remember Dr. Now mentioning someone had to be eating 6-10k/day but I think that was when the woman gained 17 lbs in a month.
Well, I edited above, should not do that as people may be posting in the meantime, but...many of these individuals report a continued gain, so the person may be eating over maintenance anyway. I didn't actually consider that when I was initially asking the question.
Thanks for the info.
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Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »ladybarometer wrote: »I tried to watch it. Not only was it scary to me, but I feel like it would be an easy place to get to if you didn't get things under control as soon as you admitted that you have a problem with addiction to food. From what I've seen, those folks are surrounded with unsupportive family and friends, and deep psychological issues WAY beyond what would just be weight related. The episode I was watching, the husband was over endulging and rubbing the joy in the 600+ pound wife's face. He like her obese, so he wanted her to stay that way - that is so selfish. No matter how sick you are, or how tired you are of being a certain size, it is really tough to resist temptation when someone is literally waving it in your face and telling you how awesome it is to eat so freely. It actually made me realize that there are several ways and reasons that these people got to the weight that they are at. I feel almost like it's more of a mental illness that needs to be treated, rather than attacking the weight first. Like I said, there seem to be much deeper issues with the people this show document and without curing the cause, you can't cure the symptom.
This seems like a chicken/egg problem. And I don't see how anyone could think it's a smart idea to go couch in therapy instead of losing hundreds of pounds that is physically killing a person.
eta: esp when there's not much evidence that therapy has any impact on weight loss being successful.
Basically if someone gained a bunch of weight because they were kidnapped, then the idea is to help them deal with that. Not just hey, here's a smaller stomach, especially since all they have to do is eat a little bit of food all day and could still not lose weight
Wasn't she enormous at that time, as well? Regardless, this poster was talking about Zsalynn's (sp?) story, and all of her problems could very feasibly be due to her weight, not her weight is due to her problems. She reeled in her crappy husband on a fat fetish website and she was part of some fat pride crowd. And she didn't get the strength to kick the fetishist she was married to to the curb until she changed her momentum towards losing pounds instead of piling them on.
As well, I keep seeing this idea that people need to go get their head examined and sort through issues BEFORE they do anything about their weight problem, and that ONLY THEN can they shed pounds. The last thing people need is another reason to fart around, especially one that sort of sounds legitimate like working with mental health professionals. I haven't seen anyone who is so insane yet where their mental health ought to take precedence over their obesity problem. It's stupid.
No reason why dealing with the mental issues couldn't be concurrent with their weight loss efforts. I think what's stupid is playing whack a mole with their life because they're ignoring the fact that people lose and gain weight ALL THE TIME. It's just like when these folks would rather take a pill or 80, or walk around all day with oxygen. They're not fixing the real cause of their issue, that is the 100-600 lbs of excess weight. Heck some of the participants have had weight loss surgery before and are looking for this intervention again. I just don't think there's anything remotely normal about eating your way to 600 lbs, especially considering that obesity related difficulties would have started way beyond that point. Wasting time with a therapist for two weeks or so at the start of the process as a check box item to facilitate long term success seems like a no brainer to me. Or at least offer them that option and have them decline it
Personally I don't see what the rush is. I'd rather spend a little more time and do it right, than gloss over important details and risk being right back where you started.
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Oh, also: let's keep in mind that not all the people depicted in the show are 600 lbs. Marla was something like 780 lbs., wasn't she? So even giving the benefit of a doubt of the extreme of 150 lbs. edema as suggested here, she'd be (per the suggestion here as well) eating at maintenance (assuming she wasn't continuing to gain) for 630 lbs...not 450.0
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Couldn't they weigh them on some sort of suspension device? They said they had no starting weight for Marla because she wouldn't stand up
I liked the fact that she was exercising but I think she might need some heavier weights! also, more getting up... 0 -
It would be so easy to eat that many calories if you were bed-bound and found comfort in food.Oh, also: let's keep in mind that not all the people depicted in the show are 600 lbs. Marla was something like 780 lbs., wasn't she? So even giving the benefit of a doubt of the extreme of 150 lbs. edema as suggested here, she'd be (per the suggestion here as well) eating at maintenance (assuming she wasn't continuing to gain) for 630 lbs...not 450.
A 6-piece chicken strip box from DQ has 1260 calories just in that little box. It might take 2 or 3 of those boxes to fill the enlarged stomach of a super obese person who's not trying to lose weight.
If all you have to do all day is watch TV and eat fried food, I can easily see getting 6K to 10K calories a day.0 -
Damn. I don't do the DQ six piece, but the four piece, Yep! Wonder if this will turn me off it any
I also thought the chicken strip, bread, and sauce of your choosing snack looked delicious. Those chik Fil a sandwiches aren't much different than this
3000-4000 calories, wow. I've definitely done this. See that's another thing. Many people aren't eating the same amount everyday. So are some days like 8-10000 calories, and others more like 2-3000 and the whole thing just averages out?0 -
Yes I was surprised at how low it was for maintenance. I've certainly had days (usually involving nachos) where I've hit 3k. A bit scary to think about.0
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Couldn't they weigh them on some sort of suspension device? They said they had no starting weight for Marla because she wouldn't stand up
I wondered that too. I know they had a suspension scale at one point because they weighed somebody with it last season. Maybe they thought she was too heavy even for that.
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I'm addicted to food and have binge eating disorder. A few years ago, just to see how bad it was, I kept track of everything I ate during one of my binging episodes. In the course of 2 hours I ate over 3000calories. That wasn't including. What I ate before or after. It's actually really easy to eat that many calories. Pretty soon those are the foods you want more and more. It's a horrible cycle. Then add diabetes, pcos (for some of the women) and the edema and lymphoma, I can see how easy it was for them to get that heavy. I had to jump through soooo many hoops to get my surgery, I just don't get why there isn't more of that for them. They need a nutritionist BEFORE the surgery, a psychologist Before and after the surgery, healthy cooking classes, and how to exercise. All these people are given this amazing tool but no one is showing them how to use it properly. Makes me sad.0
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Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »ladybarometer wrote: »I tried to watch it. Not only was it scary to me, but I feel like it would be an easy place to get to if you didn't get things under control as soon as you admitted that you have a problem with addiction to food. From what I've seen, those folks are surrounded with unsupportive family and friends, and deep psychological issues WAY beyond what would just be weight related. The episode I was watching, the husband was over endulging and rubbing the joy in the 600+ pound wife's face. He like her obese, so he wanted her to stay that way - that is so selfish. No matter how sick you are, or how tired you are of being a certain size, it is really tough to resist temptation when someone is literally waving it in your face and telling you how awesome it is to eat so freely. It actually made me realize that there are several ways and reasons that these people got to the weight that they are at. I feel almost like it's more of a mental illness that needs to be treated, rather than attacking the weight first. Like I said, there seem to be much deeper issues with the people this show document and without curing the cause, you can't cure the symptom.
This seems like a chicken/egg problem. And I don't see how anyone could think it's a smart idea to go couch in therapy instead of losing hundreds of pounds that is physically killing a person.
eta: esp when there's not much evidence that therapy has any impact on weight loss being successful.
Basically if someone gained a bunch of weight because they were kidnapped, then the idea is to help them deal with that. Not just hey, here's a smaller stomach, especially since all they have to do is eat a little bit of food all day and could still not lose weight
Wasn't she enormous at that time, as well? Regardless, this poster was talking about Zsalynn's (sp?) story, and all of her problems could very feasibly be due to her weight, not her weight is due to her problems. She reeled in her crappy husband on a fat fetish website and she was part of some fat pride crowd. And she didn't get the strength to kick the fetishist she was married to to the curb until she changed her momentum towards losing pounds instead of piling them on.
As well, I keep seeing this idea that people need to go get their head examined and sort through issues BEFORE they do anything about their weight problem, and that ONLY THEN can they shed pounds. The last thing people need is another reason to fart around, especially one that sort of sounds legitimate like working with mental health professionals. I haven't seen anyone who is so insane yet where their mental health ought to take precedence over their obesity problem. It's stupid.
No reason why dealing with the mental issues couldn't be concurrent with their weight loss efforts. I think what's stupid is playing whack a mole with their life because they're ignoring the fact that people lose and gain weight ALL THE TIME. It's just like when these folks would rather take a pill or 80, or walk around all day with oxygen. They're not fixing the real cause of their issue, that is the 100-600 lbs of excess weight. Heck some of the participants have had weight loss surgery before and are looking for this intervention again. I just don't think there's anything remotely normal about eating your way to 600 lbs, especially considering that obesity related difficulties would have started way beyond that point. Wasting time with a therapist for two weeks or so at the start of the process as a check box item to facilitate long term success seems like a no brainer to me. Or at least offer them that option and have them decline it
Personally I don't see what the rush is. I'd rather spend a little more time and do it right, than gloss over important details and risk being right back where you started.
The rush is that people who are 600 lbs don't have all the time in the world to sit around and talk about their feelz. (And a big part of me suspects they've spent a good portion of their life and their days thinking and talking about how they feel, most if not all of them watch daytime tv which is saturated in pop psychology feelings-talk.)
Yes, obesity is the problem for taking the pills and being on the oxygen, but weight loss takes time and whether they decide to lose weight or not, in the mean time, people need the pills and the oxygen. I'd argue that obesity is also the root problem for why these people are stuck in their head, in their past, and are depressed, and they are not going to begin to feel better until they lose weight. People seem to want to argue that their weight isn't the biggest trauma of their lives but rather is a symptom of trauma, and I strongly disagree. The weight is the problem.
And I want to clarify that we're not talking about a psych evaluation to qualify for surgery. What is being assumed is the efficacy of therapy in treating obesity, and the necessity of therapy to be successful is also being assumed. And I object to both assumptions. Where is the success rate that warrants these seemingly ubiquitous assumptions? I've asked for it a number of times on the forums, and am still waiting to be provided with anything.
Fine that TLC wants to spend money on a therapist for entertainment purposes, but at the end of the day, how much food they decide to eat and how much they decide to move is what matters, and that is all it will ever come down to whether they figure out that they eat their feelings or not, and no matter what events transpired in their past.
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It freaks me out because I j ow they had to start from somewhere and I feel like that could be me one day0
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Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »ladybarometer wrote: »I tried to watch it. Not only was it scary to me, but I feel like it would be an easy place to get to if you didn't get things under control as soon as you admitted that you have a problem with addiction to food. From what I've seen, those folks are surrounded with unsupportive family and friends, and deep psychological issues WAY beyond what would just be weight related. The episode I was watching, the husband was over endulging and rubbing the joy in the 600+ pound wife's face. He like her obese, so he wanted her to stay that way - that is so selfish. No matter how sick you are, or how tired you are of being a certain size, it is really tough to resist temptation when someone is literally waving it in your face and telling you how awesome it is to eat so freely. It actually made me realize that there are several ways and reasons that these people got to the weight that they are at. I feel almost like it's more of a mental illness that needs to be treated, rather than attacking the weight first. Like I said, there seem to be much deeper issues with the people this show document and without curing the cause, you can't cure the symptom.
This seems like a chicken/egg problem. And I don't see how anyone could think it's a smart idea to go couch in therapy instead of losing hundreds of pounds that is physically killing a person.
eta: esp when there's not much evidence that therapy has any impact on weight loss being successful.
Basically if someone gained a bunch of weight because they were kidnapped, then the idea is to help them deal with that. Not just hey, here's a smaller stomach, especially since all they have to do is eat a little bit of food all day and could still not lose weight
Wasn't she enormous at that time, as well? Regardless, this poster was talking about Zsalynn's (sp?) story, and all of her problems could very feasibly be due to her weight, not her weight is due to her problems. She reeled in her crappy husband on a fat fetish website and she was part of some fat pride crowd. And she didn't get the strength to kick the fetishist she was married to to the curb until she changed her momentum towards losing pounds instead of piling them on.
As well, I keep seeing this idea that people need to go get their head examined and sort through issues BEFORE they do anything about their weight problem, and that ONLY THEN can they shed pounds. The last thing people need is another reason to fart around, especially one that sort of sounds legitimate like working with mental health professionals. I haven't seen anyone who is so insane yet where their mental health ought to take precedence over their obesity problem. It's stupid.
No reason why dealing with the mental issues couldn't be concurrent with their weight loss efforts. I think what's stupid is playing whack a mole with their life because they're ignoring the fact that people lose and gain weight ALL THE TIME. It's just like when these folks would rather take a pill or 80, or walk around all day with oxygen. They're not fixing the real cause of their issue, that is the 100-600 lbs of excess weight. Heck some of the participants have had weight loss surgery before and are looking for this intervention again. I just don't think there's anything remotely normal about eating your way to 600 lbs, especially considering that obesity related difficulties would have started way beyond that point. Wasting time with a therapist for two weeks or so at the start of the process as a check box item to facilitate long term success seems like a no brainer to me. Or at least offer them that option and have them decline it
Personally I don't see what the rush is. I'd rather spend a little more time and do it right, than gloss over important details and risk being right back where you started.
The rush is that people who are 600 lbs don't have all the time in the world to sit around and talk about their feelz. (And a big part of me suspects they've spent a good portion of their life and their days thinking and talking about how they feel, most if not all of them watch daytime tv which is saturated in pop psychology feelings-talk.)
Yes, obesity is the problem for taking the pills and being on the oxygen, but weight loss takes time and whether they decide to lose weight or not, in the mean time, people need the pills and the oxygen. I'd argue that obesity is also the root problem for why these people are stuck in their head, in their past, and are depressed, and they are not going to begin to feel better until they lose weight. People seem to want to argue that their weight isn't the biggest trauma of their lives but rather is a symptom of trauma, and I strongly disagree. The weight is the problem.
And I want to clarify that we're not talking about a psych evaluation to qualify for surgery. What is being assumed is the efficacy of therapy in treating obesity, and the necessity of therapy to be successful is also being assumed. And I object to both assumptions. Where is the success rate that warrants these seemingly ubiquitous assumptions? I've asked for it a number of times on the forums, and am still waiting to be provided with anything.
Fine that TLC wants to spend money on a therapist for entertainment purposes, but at the end of the day, how much food they decide to eat and how much they decide to move is what matters, and that is all it will ever come down to whether they figure out that they eat their feelings or not, and no matter what events transpired in their past.
You know, If you're so interested in the therapy success rate as it relates to obesity, it may have to be you who finds out and shares it with us. I surely don't have that data or even that much interest in the topic. There are 24 hours in one day. Surely They can spare a few minutes here and there getting the proper tools to deal with their situation, and yes, if you prefer, while losing weight. I don't care how dire their situation is - they weren't going to spend every minute of every damn day working at losing weight.
Even Zhalyn(sp) could have learned some tools for dealing with her husband. This almost reminds me of some sort of assumption that you have to be thin to have earned respect or for people to treat you properly. She could have improved her life in that way at any weight...0 -
This is now the 2nd time I've been asked to prove that someone else's assertions and assumptions are wrong, instead of they feeling responsible to back up their own claims when faced with skepticism.Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »ladybarometer wrote: »I tried to watch it. Not only was it scary to me, but I feel like it would be an easy place to get to if you didn't get things under control as soon as you admitted that you have a problem with addiction to food. From what I've seen, those folks are surrounded with unsupportive family and friends, and deep psychological issues WAY beyond what would just be weight related. The episode I was watching, the husband was over endulging and rubbing the joy in the 600+ pound wife's face. He like her obese, so he wanted her to stay that way - that is so selfish. No matter how sick you are, or how tired you are of being a certain size, it is really tough to resist temptation when someone is literally waving it in your face and telling you how awesome it is to eat so freely. It actually made me realize that there are several ways and reasons that these people got to the weight that they are at. I feel almost like it's more of a mental illness that needs to be treated, rather than attacking the weight first. Like I said, there seem to be much deeper issues with the people this show document and without curing the cause, you can't cure the symptom.
This seems like a chicken/egg problem. And I don't see how anyone could think it's a smart idea to go couch in therapy instead of losing hundreds of pounds that is physically killing a person.
eta: esp when there's not much evidence that therapy has any impact on weight loss being successful.
Basically if someone gained a bunch of weight because they were kidnapped, then the idea is to help them deal with that. Not just hey, here's a smaller stomach, especially since all they have to do is eat a little bit of food all day and could still not lose weight
Wasn't she enormous at that time, as well? Regardless, this poster was talking about Zsalynn's (sp?) story, and all of her problems could very feasibly be due to her weight, not her weight is due to her problems. She reeled in her crappy husband on a fat fetish website and she was part of some fat pride crowd. And she didn't get the strength to kick the fetishist she was married to to the curb until she changed her momentum towards losing pounds instead of piling them on.
As well, I keep seeing this idea that people need to go get their head examined and sort through issues BEFORE they do anything about their weight problem, and that ONLY THEN can they shed pounds. The last thing people need is another reason to fart around, especially one that sort of sounds legitimate like working with mental health professionals. I haven't seen anyone who is so insane yet where their mental health ought to take precedence over their obesity problem. It's stupid.
No reason why dealing with the mental issues couldn't be concurrent with their weight loss efforts. I think what's stupid is playing whack a mole with their life because they're ignoring the fact that people lose and gain weight ALL THE TIME. It's just like when these folks would rather take a pill or 80, or walk around all day with oxygen. They're not fixing the real cause of their issue, that is the 100-600 lbs of excess weight. Heck some of the participants have had weight loss surgery before and are looking for this intervention again. I just don't think there's anything remotely normal about eating your way to 600 lbs, especially considering that obesity related difficulties would have started way beyond that point. Wasting time with a therapist for two weeks or so at the start of the process as a check box item to facilitate long term success seems like a no brainer to me. Or at least offer them that option and have them decline it
Personally I don't see what the rush is. I'd rather spend a little more time and do it right, than gloss over important details and risk being right back where you started.
The rush is that people who are 600 lbs don't have all the time in the world to sit around and talk about their feelz. (And a big part of me suspects they've spent a good portion of their life and their days thinking and talking about how they feel, most if not all of them watch daytime tv which is saturated in pop psychology feelings-talk.)
Yes, obesity is the problem for taking the pills and being on the oxygen, but weight loss takes time and whether they decide to lose weight or not, in the mean time, people need the pills and the oxygen. I'd argue that obesity is also the root problem for why these people are stuck in their head, in their past, and are depressed, and they are not going to begin to feel better until they lose weight. People seem to want to argue that their weight isn't the biggest trauma of their lives but rather is a symptom of trauma, and I strongly disagree. The weight is the problem.
And I want to clarify that we're not talking about a psych evaluation to qualify for surgery. What is being assumed is the efficacy of therapy in treating obesity, and the necessity of therapy to be successful is also being assumed. And I object to both assumptions. Where is the success rate that warrants these seemingly ubiquitous assumptions? I've asked for it a number of times on the forums, and am still waiting to be provided with anything.
Fine that TLC wants to spend money on a therapist for entertainment purposes, but at the end of the day, how much food they decide to eat and how much they decide to move is what matters, and that is all it will ever come down to whether they figure out that they eat their feelings or not, and no matter what events transpired in their past.
You know, If you're so interested in the therapy success rate as it relates to obesity, it may have to be you who finds out and shares it with us. I surely don't have that data or even that much interest in the topic. There are 24 hours in one day. Surely They can spare a few minutes here and there getting the proper tools to deal with their situation, and yes, if you prefer, while losing weight. I don't care how dire their situation is - they weren't going to spend every minute of every damn day working at losing weight.
Even Zhalyn(sp) could have learned some tools for dealing with her husband. This almost reminds me of some sort of assumption that you have to be thin to have earned respect or for people to treat you properly. She could have improved her life in that way at any weight...
If you don't care, why are you chiming in and repeating the same assumptions?
Zsalynn married a fat fetishist, she knew what she signed up for, and that ought to go for anyone whoms relationship was conditional on a fetish. It's not that she doesn't deserve more, but rather she got precisely what she sought! And yeah, if she weren't steeped in a fat culture that encourages denial, she might have cast her line in better waters. Maybe not. Regardless, the point remains that what worked to get her unstuck was losing weight, not some apparent imagined faith-based ideals about therapy being a good time-filler activity and a necessary place to allocate financial resources.0 -
I was thinking of the lady cooking in a deep fryer from her bed. On my, I use to take a couple of sandwiches to bed with me when I was a teenager and my Dad give me a hard time about it. He would have passed out if I had of cooked in bed. Funny how stuff comes back to you.0
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I've watched a few episodes lately. While this show doesn't motivate me the way that The Biggest Loser motivates me, it reminds me of what could be ahead of me if I don't stay on this path.
Reading stories from past contestants the majority have all gained weight again because they lost it under intense unrealistic ways
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Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.0 -
DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
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DearestWinter wrote: »I just plugged in some random data (5'8", female, 40 years old, 600 lbs) and it says it would take about 4k calories to maintain that weight. Which is less than I thought.
I remember Dr. Now mentioning someone had to be eating 6-10k/day but I think that was when the woman gained 17 lbs in a month.
Well, I edited above, should not do that as people may be posting in the meantime, but...many of these individuals report a continued gain, so the person may be eating over maintenance anyway. I didn't actually consider that when I was initially asking the question.
Thanks for the info.
Yeah that's what I was wanting to say. I don't think any of the patients are maintaining, they seem to all be gaining weight pretty rapidly. Usually their weight is a shock to them and they'll say something about how they were a couple of hundred pounds lighter the last time they checked.
Re: Zsalynn - I do have sympathy for her. At 350 lbs she could get around, dress up, go out and have a good time. I'm sure she felt like she would just stay at that weight and everything would be fine. I don't blame her husband for getting her to 600 pounds but he was definitely a dependency fetishist as opposed to just a fat fetishist.
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Another thing that struck me about Chay was that he seemed so bright.
I was struck by his ignorance. True, he appears brighter than many of the others, but when he protested that he was "even making my own whole wheat bread so I won't have to eat white bread" and Dr. Now, in his patient but no b.s. way, said "For your information, whole wheat bread has the same calories as white bread," and Chay said, "Huh. I did not know that," I groaned.
Given that you don't get to 600 pounds by paying lots of attention to calories, a "bright" person who wants to lose weight learns something--even a little basic info--about calories! So, no intelligence points to Chay. OTOH, he is very likeable and has great chances for future health. If he bothers to learn anything about what he eats.
Just to add: I got to 300 pounds (down 78 lbs now thanks to WLS) and could have written academic treatises on calories and nutrition, so I understand the connection doesn't necessarily work the other way round: knowing isn't doing, and I've seen people lose lots of weight without knowing much at all--they just followed a diet plan.0 -
Lourdesong wrote: »
This is now the 2nd time I've been asked to prove that someone else's assertions and assumptions are wrong, instead of they feeling responsible to back up their own claims when faced with skepticism.Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »ladybarometer wrote: »I tried to watch it. Not only was it scary to me, but I feel like it would be an easy place to get to if you didn't get things under control as soon as you admitted that you have a problem with addiction to food. From what I've seen, those folks are surrounded with unsupportive family and friends, and deep psychological issues WAY beyond what would just be weight related. The episode I was watching, the husband was over endulging and rubbing the joy in the 600+ pound wife's face. He like her obese, so he wanted her to stay that way - that is so selfish. No matter how sick you are, or how tired you are of being a certain size, it is really tough to resist temptation when someone is literally waving it in your face and telling you how awesome it is to eat so freely. It actually made me realize that there are several ways and reasons that these people got to the weight that they are at. I feel almost like it's more of a mental illness that needs to be treated, rather than attacking the weight first. Like I said, there seem to be much deeper issues with the people this show document and without curing the cause, you can't cure the symptom.
This seems like a chicken/egg problem. And I don't see how anyone could think it's a smart idea to go couch in therapy instead of losing hundreds of pounds that is physically killing a person.
eta: esp when there's not much evidence that therapy has any impact on weight loss being successful.
Basically if someone gained a bunch of weight because they were kidnapped, then the idea is to help them deal with that. Not just hey, here's a smaller stomach, especially since all they have to do is eat a little bit of food all day and could still not lose weight
Wasn't she enormous at that time, as well? Regardless, this poster was talking about Zsalynn's (sp?) story, and all of her problems could very feasibly be due to her weight, not her weight is due to her problems. She reeled in her crappy husband on a fat fetish website and she was part of some fat pride crowd. And she didn't get the strength to kick the fetishist she was married to to the curb until she changed her momentum towards losing pounds instead of piling them on.
As well, I keep seeing this idea that people need to go get their head examined and sort through issues BEFORE they do anything about their weight problem, and that ONLY THEN can they shed pounds. The last thing people need is another reason to fart around, especially one that sort of sounds legitimate like working with mental health professionals. I haven't seen anyone who is so insane yet where their mental health ought to take precedence over their obesity problem. It's stupid.
No reason why dealing with the mental issues couldn't be concurrent with their weight loss efforts. I think what's stupid is playing whack a mole with their life because they're ignoring the fact that people lose and gain weight ALL THE TIME. It's just like when these folks would rather take a pill or 80, or walk around all day with oxygen. They're not fixing the real cause of their issue, that is the 100-600 lbs of excess weight. Heck some of the participants have had weight loss surgery before and are looking for this intervention again. I just don't think there's anything remotely normal about eating your way to 600 lbs, especially considering that obesity related difficulties would have started way beyond that point. Wasting time with a therapist for two weeks or so at the start of the process as a check box item to facilitate long term success seems like a no brainer to me. Or at least offer them that option and have them decline it
Personally I don't see what the rush is. I'd rather spend a little more time and do it right, than gloss over important details and risk being right back where you started.
The rush is that people who are 600 lbs don't have all the time in the world to sit around and talk about their feelz. (And a big part of me suspects they've spent a good portion of their life and their days thinking and talking about how they feel, most if not all of them watch daytime tv which is saturated in pop psychology feelings-talk.)
Yes, obesity is the problem for taking the pills and being on the oxygen, but weight loss takes time and whether they decide to lose weight or not, in the mean time, people need the pills and the oxygen. I'd argue that obesity is also the root problem for why these people are stuck in their head, in their past, and are depressed, and they are not going to begin to feel better until they lose weight. People seem to want to argue that their weight isn't the biggest trauma of their lives but rather is a symptom of trauma, and I strongly disagree. The weight is the problem.
And I want to clarify that we're not talking about a psych evaluation to qualify for surgery. What is being assumed is the efficacy of therapy in treating obesity, and the necessity of therapy to be successful is also being assumed. And I object to both assumptions. Where is the success rate that warrants these seemingly ubiquitous assumptions? I've asked for it a number of times on the forums, and am still waiting to be provided with anything.
Fine that TLC wants to spend money on a therapist for entertainment purposes, but at the end of the day, how much food they decide to eat and how much they decide to move is what matters, and that is all it will ever come down to whether they figure out that they eat their feelings or not, and no matter what events transpired in their past.
You know, If you're so interested in the therapy success rate as it relates to obesity, it may have to be you who finds out and shares it with us. I surely don't have that data or even that much interest in the topic. There are 24 hours in one day. Surely They can spare a few minutes here and there getting the proper tools to deal with their situation, and yes, if you prefer, while losing weight. I don't care how dire their situation is - they weren't going to spend every minute of every damn day working at losing weight.
Even Zhalyn(sp) could have learned some tools for dealing with her husband. This almost reminds me of some sort of assumption that you have to be thin to have earned respect or for people to treat you properly. She could have improved her life in that way at any weight...
If you don't care, why are you chiming in and repeating the same assumptions?
Basically if I felt so strongly about knowing certain information I'd get off my behind and get it. Not wonder why everyone i discuss the topic with won't spoon feed it to meZsalynn married a fat fetishist, she knew what she signed up for, and that ought to go for anyone whoms relationship was conditional on a fetish. It's not that she doesn't deserve more, but rather she got precisely what she sought! And yeah, if she weren't steeped in a fat culture that encourages denial, she might have cast her line in better waters. Maybe not. Regardless, the point remains that what worked to get her unstuck was losing weight, not some apparent imagined faith-based ideals about therapy being a good time-filler activity and a necessary place to allocate financial resources.
You have your opinion I have mine
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I was watching the show last week, I forgot the guy's name, but he was talking about his cheat day. It sounded exactly like something I've said, and coming from someone else it sounded like such *kitten*. So I guess that's helped me there.
It struck me exactly the same way.
Cheat days are for people who need to lose 20 pounds, not for people whose weight is putting their lives in danger. Or for people (like me) who need to lose 100 pounds (or more).
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i watch every show it motivates me . i do not want to weigh 600 pounds.i feel sad for these people.i love the niggest loser to grat show .0
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Wow, I gotta watch this....the poor thing.0
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HeartsintheHighlands wrote: »
Another thing that struck me about Chay was that he seemed so bright.
I was struck by his ignorance. True, he appears brighter than many of the others, but when he protested that he was "even making my own whole wheat bread so I won't have to eat white bread" and Dr. Now, in his patient but no b.s. way, said "For your information, whole wheat bread has the same calories as white bread," and Chay said, "Huh. I did not know that," I groaned.
To be honest, I really, and I mean really got the impression that he was just trying to snow the doctor. He kind of mumbled that whole "Oh...I had no idea" bit. I could be wrong, obviously.
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DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
I agree with what you said completely. How does all respect go out the window just because the physical attraction is lost. I would think some bit of caring if not love for the person should still exist.0 -
DearestWinter wrote: »Zsalynn's husband was disgusting. I just have trouble seeing any reason for the passive aggressive and insulting behavior he exhibited. Even if he lost all attraction to her after she lost the weight he could have been mature about it so they could both move on with their lives. Sure, she made the decision to lose the weight (and become healthier) which was going to eliminate her fulfillment of his ideal, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't care about her as a person and be able to respect her decision (and her) while they work out how best to separate.
I would feel the same way if someone gained 200 lbs in a relationship (and had zero interest in losing it). Their partner may not be happy and may ultimately decide to end things but that doesn't mean they have to be disrespectful and cruel in the process.
Maybe I'm too idealistic when it comes to relationships.
This. I'm really not seeing that it was cool of Zsalynn's husband to be so verbally abusive (disgusting, actually...I mean I'm not using the word "abusive" lightly here) to both Zsalynn and their daughter, just because she realized he was initially attracted to her because of her weight.
Just not getting that connection, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Your second paragraph demonstrates this very well - would it be okay to be abusive to a spouse who had gained weight? I'm thinking no. Correct?
I doubt that just because they met at a fat acceptance seminar, Zsalynn should have expected and should accept that not only would the man ultimately be downright cruel to her, but also to their future child.
No one is defending her worthless pos husband, or saying that she should accept abuse.
And she made an ad of herself in a 2-piece thong lingerie (she looked 500 lbs to me) on a website and he responded. Pretty sure it was a site for people like him, since that was part of the story of the culture she was involved with, not 100% certain tho. For some reason I don't think she was advertising herself on Match.
Yes, it would have been super if he turned out to be a good decent guy who loved her for the right reasons, but he wasn't and he didn't. My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
[/quote]Lourdesong wrote: »
This is now the 2nd time I've been asked to prove that someone else's assertions and assumptions are wrong, instead of they feeling responsible to back up their own claims when faced with skepticism.Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »Lourdesong wrote: »ladybarometer wrote: »I tried to watch it. Not only was it scary to me, but I feel like it would be an easy place to get to if you didn't get things under control as soon as you admitted that you have a problem with addiction to food. From what I've seen, those folks are surrounded with unsupportive family and friends, and deep psychological issues WAY beyond what would just be weight related. The episode I was watching, the husband was over endulging and rubbing the joy in the 600+ pound wife's face. He like her obese, so he wanted her to stay that way - that is so selfish. No matter how sick you are, or how tired you are of being a certain size, it is really tough to resist temptation when someone is literally waving it in your face and telling you how awesome it is to eat so freely. It actually made me realize that there are several ways and reasons that these people got to the weight that they are at. I feel almost like it's more of a mental illness that needs to be treated, rather than attacking the weight first. Like I said, there seem to be much deeper issues with the people this show document and without curing the cause, you can't cure the symptom.
This seems like a chicken/egg problem. And I don't see how anyone could think it's a smart idea to go couch in therapy instead of losing hundreds of pounds that is physically killing a person.
eta: esp when there's not much evidence that therapy has any impact on weight loss being successful.
Basically if someone gained a bunch of weight because they were kidnapped, then the idea is to help them deal with that. Not just hey, here's a smaller stomach, especially since all they have to do is eat a little bit of food all day and could still not lose weight
Wasn't she enormous at that time, as well? Regardless, this poster was talking about Zsalynn's (sp?) story, and all of her problems could very feasibly be due to her weight, not her weight is due to her problems. She reeled in her crappy husband on a fat fetish website and she was part of some fat pride crowd. And she didn't get the strength to kick the fetishist she was married to to the curb until she changed her momentum towards losing pounds instead of piling them on.
As well, I keep seeing this idea that people need to go get their head examined and sort through issues BEFORE they do anything about their weight problem, and that ONLY THEN can they shed pounds. The last thing people need is another reason to fart around, especially one that sort of sounds legitimate like working with mental health professionals. I haven't seen anyone who is so insane yet where their mental health ought to take precedence over their obesity problem. It's stupid.
No reason why dealing with the mental issues couldn't be concurrent with their weight loss efforts. I think what's stupid is playing whack a mole with their life because they're ignoring the fact that people lose and gain weight ALL THE TIME. It's just like when these folks would rather take a pill or 80, or walk around all day with oxygen. They're not fixing the real cause of their issue, that is the 100-600 lbs of excess weight. Heck some of the participants have had weight loss surgery before and are looking for this intervention again. I just don't think there's anything remotely normal about eating your way to 600 lbs, especially considering that obesity related difficulties would have started way beyond that point. Wasting time with a therapist for two weeks or so at the start of the process as a check box item to facilitate long term success seems like a no brainer to me. Or at least offer them that option and have them decline it
Personally I don't see what the rush is. I'd rather spend a little more time and do it right, than gloss over important details and risk being right back where you started.
The rush is that people who are 600 lbs don't have all the time in the world to sit around and talk about their feelz. (And a big part of me suspects they've spent a good portion of their life and their days thinking and talking about how they feel, most if not all of them watch daytime tv which is saturated in pop psychology feelings-talk.)
Yes, obesity is the problem for taking the pills and being on the oxygen, but weight loss takes time and whether they decide to lose weight or not, in the mean time, people need the pills and the oxygen. I'd argue that obesity is also the root problem for why these people are stuck in their head, in their past, and are depressed, and they are not going to begin to feel better until they lose weight. People seem to want to argue that their weight isn't the biggest trauma of their lives but rather is a symptom of trauma, and I strongly disagree. The weight is the problem.
And I want to clarify that we're not talking about a psych evaluation to qualify for surgery. What is being assumed is the efficacy of therapy in treating obesity, and the necessity of therapy to be successful is also being assumed. And I object to both assumptions. Where is the success rate that warrants these seemingly ubiquitous assumptions? I've asked for it a number of times on the forums, and am still waiting to be provided with anything.
Fine that TLC wants to spend money on a therapist for entertainment purposes, but at the end of the day, how much food they decide to eat and how much they decide to move is what matters, and that is all it will ever come down to whether they figure out that they eat their feelings or not, and no matter what events transpired in their past.
You know, If you're so interested in the therapy success rate as it relates to obesity, it may have to be you who finds out and shares it with us. I surely don't have that data or even that much interest in the topic. There are 24 hours in one day. Surely They can spare a few minutes here and there getting the proper tools to deal with their situation, and yes, if you prefer, while losing weight. I don't care how dire their situation is - they weren't going to spend every minute of every damn day working at losing weight.
Even Zhalyn(sp) could have learned some tools for dealing with her husband. This almost reminds me of some sort of assumption that you have to be thin to have earned respect or for people to treat you properly. She could have improved her life in that way at any weight...
If you don't care, why are you chiming in and repeating the same assumptions?
Basically if I felt so strongly about knowing certain information I'd get off my behind and get it. Not wonder why everyone i discuss the topic with won't spoon feed it to me
Sorry, doesn't work that way, it's not my job to provide what appears to be non-existent data that supports your assumptions. If you or others insist that therapy is both efficacious and necessary for success in treating obesity, then it's your job to put up, or... you know. Otherwise, I think it's very unkind to make assertions and assumptions like these which create a needless financial obstacle for obese persons who might thereby falsely believe that if they can't afford the extravagance of therapy then they can't be successful.
On a related note, Pauline was apparently on the Dr. Phil show many years ago, and he gave her every thing we could imagine that one might need to facilitate success, including portioned meals delivered to her home for her and her son so that not even the inconvenience of shopping and preparing meals would be obstacle for her. And yet, she didn't change. She still chose to overeat and not move.
And I'd argue that allocating resources towards professional food preparation or in-home round-the-clock care as they develop mobility would be money better well spent than would putting obese people on the couch in the some therapists office to yammer about their past and their feelz.
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I agree, and yet there was also something positive about that group in affirming themselves as valuable and appealing even though they were at the opposite extreme of the culturally defined image of attractiveness.Lourdesong wrote: »... My argument wasn't that she didn't deserve better, or that he had every right to treat her that way, it's that she spent the majority of her adult life rejecting the idea that her weight was a problem, and got involved in a culture that positively reinforced being in denial, and married a man who likewise positively reinforced her being in denial because he was a fat fetishist. Her entire world was built on rejecting that her weight is a problem. The situation with her husband may not have been ideal, but it was an entirely predictable outcome, and losing weight is what gave her the strength to get out of it.
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This season's patients/participants appear to be in even worse condition than before. I really applaud those who succeed for losing the weight, but no matter what, their internal organs have endured 600-800 pounds of body weight for a long time. They might be 23-43 years old, but their heart, liver, kidneys etc must be that of an 80+ year old. So many of them have been sexually abused in ways most of us could never imagine or as children treated worse than any of us could bear to endure. Nobody gets to 800 pounds by eating too much. I'm impressed by those who have worked hard, but I have to wonder what their life expectancy will be. Of course these people don't work. They can't even get out of their beds. I mean, they've literally in prison in their apartments/homes/trailers/cabins. It's sad really. What really infuriates me, as a fitness professional and social worker, are the women who are married to these thin men who 'want these girls to stay 600 pounds otherwise they won't be sexually attracted to them'. Unreal! So they're willing to let their wives die from complications related to morbid obesity rather than seeing their wives (and mothers of their children) live to see 50 and get to actually go places with their kids.
'Dr. Now' does his best. If he comes across as direct and unsympathetic, you have to remember that he's very old-world/eastern European and that's just the way a lot of people are over there. They don't intend to be rude, but they're not going to use nice words and avoid the central issue. I think most of these patients are better knowing the brutal truth rather than having their hands held through the process. He needs to see they've put forth some effort before he will invest his time and team. I know it's very risky to do these procedures (here in Canada it's very hard to get bariatric surgery in the first place as it's often not seen as a necessity; many people here who are in that condition will go to hospitals in Duluth, Minnesota where they specialize in that) but I'm surprised there hasn't been a couple other doctors who have watched Dr. Now and decided to learn from him. These poor people shouldn't have to drive 20 hours to Houston to get this done.0
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