Is not doing cardio worn like a badge on honor for you?
Replies
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What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sing up ?What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 yeLars and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sign up ?
LOL- well I'm in the dirty jersey currently- so probably not any time soon- but when I visit CA- we'll throw down!!!
My only caviot is we hit the road on bikes and hit the hills for the final test
I'll the bring the life boat to navigate those deep puddles.
I would seriously die- I remember biking back in college- and I had to walk up the hell- for some reason- despite all my quad strength I have ZERO drive- its' like instant burning and murder. I'm pathetic.Jersey? Hell... my next Ironman race is in Atlantic City...
<---- That profile pic was taken in Princeton at the NJ State Tri in 2011
well if you're passing through the trenton/princeton area- give a holler- I'm all about me some coffee chats.
Not to self: Must visit Trenton/Princeton area.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »
I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times is going to be orders of magnitude easier than going 96% max for a continuous 20 min. (a 5K well raced) or 91% max for a continuous 90 min (a HM well raced).3dogsrunning wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »3dogsrunning wrote: »aobuchanan wrote: »High intensity interval cardio has been proven to be more effective that steady stay cardio. however it takes less time. It is more difficult. I think weight lifters are generally the type of people that spend so much time in diet and exercise that a lot of steady stay cardio would cause them to have to cut out on some of the stuff they love most, lifting and strength training. So why not use a more time efficient proven way to get the cardio done that does not involve hours of cardio, but is scientifically proven to be the most effective? I don't think weight lifters avoid cardio any more than cardio enthusiasts avoid lifting, Just sayin' ! Why would they want to lift, when all they want to do is run, and visa versa? why does it have to be a problem? To each his own. Do what you love and be happy. There is no One right way to do it. One is not better than the other. It's about what gets you the results you want and what makes you happy. Or else, what is it all for anyway? Happy lifting and happy trails.
Proven more effective for what?
I don't necessarily find it more difficult. The hard effort is challenging but it is also short. I find mentally HIIT can be easier than a particularly long run at a lower but sustained effort.
All I'm gonna say is: If you feel like HIIT is easier than anything, you're doing it wrong.
HIIT should be the hardest, most intense thing you ever do, if you do it. You should feel like you're killing yourself and when you're finished, you should feel like you succeeded in doing so.
I said mentally. I can focus on getting through the short bursts and since you don't do endless intervals, it is a small number to get through which I can focus on as well.
I find it difficult but I can mentally deal with it easier.
Anyway, if HIIT was the proven best method for building cardio vascular fitness then there would be at least one elite champion in the history of the universe that trained that way. But there isn't.
HIIT originally became popular after an Olympic rowing team used it to cut 20% off their times. I'd say elite athletes do you it, just not to the extreme as the masses believe they do. Probably only one training session a week.
Olympic rowers are going to have a similar profile to their season as long distance runners or triathletes do. So from my perspective, using the bike as an example, my off season tends to have a bunch of mixed effort work. I'll have a day where it's all sprints. 15s all out, 15s rest, x 40 sort of thing. A couple days later it will be VO2max and SuperLT intervals in the 3-4 minute range (x10). Then a couple days later its your classic 2x20:00 Sub-LT workout. In between those is all my running and swimming. So in a sense, at least in off-season I'll have one day of sprinting each week which is similar enough to the HIIT concept.
Once the race season comes around the sprints disappear entirely, replaced by more endurance work. The VO2 intervals get dropped, but the superLT intervals stay. There is more sub-LT work to do.0 -
Because it's trendy. Someone mentioned earlier that there is a pervasive myth that to get lean you have to cardio. I think the whole do no cardio thing started as a way to stop that notion, and with good intention, but now has become the cool thing to do/say.
I don't think its a cool thing to do or say. Its a fact for me. I don't do any cardio.
I acheived this body with NO CARDIO. I say it bc I get asked all the time how much cardio? how much? Um none.
I dont have the time energy and I get extremely hungry. I over eat majorly and blow my deficit.
My heart rate gets up from lifing. I walk a lot. I have tracked a mile run for 3 years, from 15 mins down to 7 mins.
I look at the people toiling away doing cardio and their body comp never changes, they still have the rolls and belly fat, I feel sorry for them. If you like cardio do it, but get some weight training in there and really change your body. just my 2 cents0 -
Some people see it as only a way to lose weight, some people get that keeping heart and lungs healthy is important as much as maintaining a healthy weight. None of my business though what others do.0
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None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
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sarahlifts wrote: »Because it's trendy. Someone mentioned earlier that there is a pervasive myth that to get lean you have to cardio. I think the whole do no cardio thing started as a way to stop that notion, and with good intention, but now has become the cool thing to do/say.
I don't think its a cool thing to do or say. Its a fact for me. I don't do any cardio.
I acheived this body with NO CARDIO. I say it bc I get asked all the time how much cardio? how much? Um none.
I dont have the time energy and I get extremely hungry. I over eat majorly and blow my deficit.
My heart rate gets up from lifing. I walk a lot. I have tracked a mile run for 3 years, from 15 mins down to 7 mins.
I look at the people toiling away doing cardio and their body comp never changes, they still have the rolls and belly fat, I feel sorry for them. If you like cardio do it, but get some weight training in there and really change your body. just my 2 cents
That's part of the argument, some people, like myself, don't care how the body looks as long as it functions well. Looking good is just a bonus, but not a necessity.
Thanks for the pretentiousness though.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
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It's not a badge of honour. I'm just not into it.0
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Okay, so I know I'm no longer young. For me, most cardio is pretty hard on my joints, so I have to do lower-impact, which (frankly) takes longer. I'm also a busy professional. At my age, bone density begins to become a concern, and the strength training is critical to my comfortable longevity. Having said all of that, though, finding whatever works for you is important. I love running when there is some reason for it: a tennis ball to hit, or a volleyball to dig. I don't love running just to run and be fit. I'll practice light weights daily because they don't take long and I don't get bored. A balance that works for you is best.0
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chivalryder wrote: »What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sing up ?What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 yeLars and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sign up ?
LOL- well I'm in the dirty jersey currently- so probably not any time soon- but when I visit CA- we'll throw down!!!
My only caviot is we hit the road on bikes and hit the hills for the final test
I'll the bring the life boat to navigate those deep puddles.
I would seriously die- I remember biking back in college- and I had to walk up the hell- for some reason- despite all my quad strength I have ZERO drive- its' like instant burning and murder. I'm pathetic.Jersey? Hell... my next Ironman race is in Atlantic City...
<---- That profile pic was taken in Princeton at the NJ State Tri in 2011
well if you're passing through the trenton/princeton area- give a holler- I'm all about me some coffee chats.
Not to self: Must visit Trenton/Princeton area.
hysterically I ment to type /Philly area but yes that too. all the things. same area- it's pretty close. AC isn't that close- it's well over an hour away- but the side up against Philly is mostly close to me.0 -
Sounds fun, where do I sign up ?
LOL- well I'm in the dirty jersey currently- so probably not any time soon- but when I visit CA- we'll throw down!!!
My only caviot is we hit the road on bikes and head for the hills for the final test
I'll the bring the life boat to navigate those deep puddles.
I would seriously die- I remember biking back in college- and I had to walk up the hell- for some reason- despite all my quad strength I have ZERO drive- its' like instant burning and murder. I'm pathetic.
Funny how that works out some times
On a side note... I am used to being humbled by chicks out ridding, It's a cruel sport. LMAO0 -
Sounds fun, where do I sign up ?
LOL- well I'm in the dirty jersey currently- so probably not any time soon- but when I visit CA- we'll throw down!!!
My only caviot is we hit the road on bikes and head for the hills for the final test
I'll the bring the life boat to navigate those deep puddles.
I would seriously die- I remember biking back in college- and I had to walk up the hell- for some reason- despite all my quad strength I have ZERO drive- its' like instant burning and murder. I'm pathetic.
Funny how that works out some times
On a side note... I am used to being humbled by chicks out ridding, It's a cruel sport. LMAO
well. it wouldn't be me heh- not be a stretch. I still log 15 minutes of jogging as cardio 0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?0 -
people enjoy different things. I enjoy cardio and the weight machines - so i do them both- more cardio than weights.
some people do heavy lifting
some people do yoga
some people dont do anything
do what works for you, and what you like. It's not a competition.0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?
He is saying most people cannot push as hard as their physical maximum their body is actually capable of. Most untrained people will give up because they only *think* they topped out when in reality they could actually go harder0 -
chivalryder wrote: »What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sing up ?What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 yeLars and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sign up ?
LOL- well I'm in the dirty jersey currently- so probably not any time soon- but when I visit CA- we'll throw down!!!
My only caviot is we hit the road on bikes and hit the hills for the final test
I'll the bring the life boat to navigate those deep puddles.
I would seriously die- I remember biking back in college- and I had to walk up the hell- for some reason- despite all my quad strength I have ZERO drive- its' like instant burning and murder. I'm pathetic.Jersey? Hell... my next Ironman race is in Atlantic City...
<---- That profile pic was taken in Princeton at the NJ State Tri in 2011
well if you're passing through the trenton/princeton area- give a holler- I'm all about me some coffee chats.
Not to self: Must visit Trenton/Princeton area.
hysterically I ment to type /Philly area but yes that too. all the things. same area- it's pretty close. AC isn't that close- it's well over an hour away- but the side up against Philly is mostly close to me.
I am on the other side of the river about a 30-40min west of Philly. Lots of hills to ride here. 0 -
LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?
I'm saying that there are multiple definitions of "as hard as they can" - objective ones and subjective ones. Not all of them mean the same thing, not all of them amount to the same thing, and they most definitely result in different outcomes, depending on the training regimes.
I'm also saying that, for most people, until they are already quite fit they don't even know what "as hard as they can" really means, other than as a subjective perception that has minimal relevance to fitness outcomes.
Nor should they - you can't safely go that hard until your body is quite fit.
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For me, I hate cardio but will do it when it is combined with other strengthening activities like in tabata and circuit training. I find it so boring to run (and my boobs are too big for that nonsense...even with two sports bras on.) I have a brother in-law and his wife who think running and other cardio is the end all be all and I'm over here like nope, I lost 135 pounds and look good and I've only done cardio when it's part of an all inclusive training session.0
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Sounds fun, where do I sign up ?
LOL- well I'm in the dirty jersey currently- so probably not any time soon- but when I visit CA- we'll throw down!!!
My only caviot is we hit the road on bikes and head for the hills for the final test
I'll the bring the life boat to navigate those deep puddles.
I would seriously die- I remember biking back in college- and I had to walk up the hell- for some reason- despite all my quad strength I have ZERO drive- its' like instant burning and murder. I'm pathetic.
Funny how that works out some times
On a side note... I am used to being humbled by chicks out ridding, It's a cruel sport. LMAO
well. it wouldn't be me heh- not be a stretch. I still log 15 minutes of jogging as cardio
And yet only a fool would doubt your fitness.
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chivalryder wrote: »What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sing up ?What's more fun is playing a game of flag football with some of them and watching them gas out after a few plays.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 yeLars and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
conversely do you make fun of an endurance athelete who comes in to lift and isn't strong enough to squat 185- or even 135?
You can't give someone a hard time for not being good at something they don't train.
That's just asinine.
One of these day's, maybe during a rest week, I'll go into the weight room here and do a few squats. I am curious now what I can do. Before I started doing triathlon I was squatting 300. Now? I am sure it would be a joke
You can come squat with me- I won't judge... then we can go to the bike room and you can watch me literally melt into a puddle of despair in a matter of 25 minutes on the bike.
Sounds fun, where do I sign up ?
LOL- well I'm in the dirty jersey currently- so probably not any time soon- but when I visit CA- we'll throw down!!!
My only caviot is we hit the road on bikes and hit the hills for the final test
I'll the bring the life boat to navigate those deep puddles.
I would seriously die- I remember biking back in college- and I had to walk up the hell- for some reason- despite all my quad strength I have ZERO drive- its' like instant burning and murder. I'm pathetic.Jersey? Hell... my next Ironman race is in Atlantic City...
<---- That profile pic was taken in Princeton at the NJ State Tri in 2011
well if you're passing through the trenton/princeton area- give a holler- I'm all about me some coffee chats.
Not to self: Must visit Trenton/Princeton area.
hysterically I ment to type /Philly area but yes that too. all the things. same area- it's pretty close. AC isn't that close- it's well over an hour away- but the side up against Philly is mostly close to me.
I am on the other side of the river about a 30-40min west of Philly. Lots of hills to ride here.
Oh you're super close then! nice.
<blush> why thank you kind sir- that's very VERY generous of you.And yet only a fool would doubt your fitness0 -
I think all exercise, whatever shape or form is great, as long as we're moving, it's all good.0
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Well, I was the one that made the statement and at the time, 2 years ago, I was running up to 100 mile training weeks, so maybe I was quite fit, and I measured my effort over those races with a HRM, and I know the max my HR ever reached in that time period, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?
I'm saying that there are multiple definitions of "as hard as they can" - objective ones and subjective ones. Not all of them mean the same thing, not all of them amount to the same thing, and they most definitely result in different outcomes, depending on the training regimes.
I'm also saying that, for most people, until they are already quite fit they don't even know what "as hard as they can" really means, other than as a subjective perception that has minimal relevance to fitness outcomes.
Nor should they - you can't safely go that hard until your body is quite fit.
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Are you saying that the only people you see acting proud about it are only about their looks or are you saying that all lifters you see doing just weights and no cardio are only about their looks?
I don't think I proposed that well. I see people who strictly weight lift and would say cardio is useless are about lifting for lifting sake (or seem to end up that way) and that is their goal - lifting more to be bigger or look muscular and fit as their goals. It isn't a slam to anyone who just lifts.
I lift for the love of lifting, so I suppose I would fall into that category (I only weight lift). Not sure how that is different to someone who loves running marathons etc. Lifting is absolutely not necessarily only about being bigger or looking more muscular or fit.
I have never seen anyone (or cannot recall anyone) saying that cardio is useless, even if they do not do it themselves.0 -
Well, I was the one that made the statement and at the time, 2 years ago, I was running up to 100 mile training weeks, so maybe I was quite fit, and I measured my effort over those races with a HRM, and I know the max my HR ever reached in that time period, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?
I'm saying that there are multiple definitions of "as hard as they can" - objective ones and subjective ones. Not all of them mean the same thing, not all of them amount to the same thing, and they most definitely result in different outcomes, depending on the training regimes.
I'm also saying that, for most people, until they are already quite fit they don't even know what "as hard as they can" really means, other than as a subjective perception that has minimal relevance to fitness outcomes.
Nor should they - you can't safely go that hard until your body is quite fit.
This stopped being about you a long time ago. 0 -
I was just responding to the statement that HIIT is that hardest thing you can possibly do. It's not. I will agree though that maybe to an untrained person it is since they haven't developed the capacity to do or even imagine something harder.
Well, I was the one that made the statement and at the time, 2 years ago, I was running up to 100 mile training weeks, so maybe I was quite fit, and I measured my effort over those races with a HRM, and I know the max my HR ever reached in that time period, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?
I'm saying that there are multiple definitions of "as hard as they can" - objective ones and subjective ones. Not all of them mean the same thing, not all of them amount to the same thing, and they most definitely result in different outcomes, depending on the training regimes.
I'm also saying that, for most people, until they are already quite fit they don't even know what "as hard as they can" really means, other than as a subjective perception that has minimal relevance to fitness outcomes.
Nor should they - you can't safely go that hard until your body is quite fit.
This stopped being about you a long time ago.
0 -
I was just responding to the statement that HIIT is that hardest thing you can possibly do. It's not. I will agree though that maybe to an untrained person it is since they haven't developed the capacity to do or even imagine something harder.
Well, I was the one that made the statement and at the time, 2 years ago, I was running up to 100 mile training weeks, so maybe I was quite fit, and I measured my effort over those races with a HRM, and I know the max my HR ever reached in that time period, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?
I'm saying that there are multiple definitions of "as hard as they can" - objective ones and subjective ones. Not all of them mean the same thing, not all of them amount to the same thing, and they most definitely result in different outcomes, depending on the training regimes.
I'm also saying that, for most people, until they are already quite fit they don't even know what "as hard as they can" really means, other than as a subjective perception that has minimal relevance to fitness outcomes.
Nor should they - you can't safely go that hard until your body is quite fit.
This stopped being about you a long time ago.
I think it's unreasonable to compare exercises and say one is harder than another- they are difficult in their own ways if you fully commit to what you are trying to do.
I think it's a little silly to say 15 minutes of hiit - no matter HOW miserable it is- is nearly as grueling as a 5 hour long marathon.
While 15 minutes of HIIT is unquestionably hard- the sheer duration of time in a marathon and the amount of training required to go into that I think would out weigh the 15 minutes of HIIT... even if you were puking by the time you were done.
But I'ts just not realistic to blanketly call ONE way harder- it's all a matter of what you're conditioned for.0 -
Havent gone through all the pages of this thread but i dont have a problem telling or being seen doing cardio at the gym. Sometimes i go and only do cardio and dont care if im seen by the regulars who see me weight training most of the time. I do it for heart/cardio health and for calorie burn if its needed.0
-
I was just responding to the statement that HIIT is that hardest thing you can possibly do. It's not.
Well, I was the one that made the statement and at the time, 2 years ago, I was running up to 100 mile training weeks, so maybe I was quite fit, and I measured my effort over those races with a HRM, and I know the max my HR ever reached in that time period, so maybe I do know what I'm talking about.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
None of this is even relevant. Someone was talking about the relative difficulty of a 20 minute sustained effort of nearly the same amount as a quick all-out burst of 30 seconds.LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
I think the percentages referenced were HR zones.I think going 100% for 20 seconds 10 or 15 times...
That's not even physically possible. The only way to do something "10 or 15 times" in rapid succession is if you're NOT "going 100%".
The "100%" doesn't refer to the person's "this is what it feels like" level, it's about what the body is actually doing. And even the bodies of very well trained athletes don't have 100% left to give after a handful of genuinely all-out efforts.
I don't know about 10-15 times, but when I do 200 meter all-out sprints I get my HR to 100% (or "more") every time.
HR isn't the right measure - it's >100% of V02 max that the "all out" needs to be hitting. The oft-cited Tabata protocol, for example, has trainees hitting >150% V02max.
The challenge with most exercisers is they don't know their actual HRmax. And HRmax isn't even constant - it can change with fitness level. From what I've seen, most un-coached people aren't getting very close to their maximum output, even though it feels like they're working their butts off.
And this is ignoring the reality that you already need to be quite fit to even think about hitting HRmax, short of being chased by a guy in a goalie mask wielding a chainsaw.
As soon as "all out" is in the discussion, it becomes relevant. It's impossible to even compare the two unless an objective measure is put in place - which also means its impossible to compare the two unless you're talking about an individual who can actually do both.
You're saying someone cannot push as hard as they can? Do you live in an alternate universe where tautologies are false?
I'm saying that there are multiple definitions of "as hard as they can" - objective ones and subjective ones. Not all of them mean the same thing, not all of them amount to the same thing, and they most definitely result in different outcomes, depending on the training regimes.
I'm also saying that, for most people, until they are already quite fit they don't even know what "as hard as they can" really means, other than as a subjective perception that has minimal relevance to fitness outcomes.
Nor should they - you can't safely go that hard until your body is quite fit.
This stopped being about you a long time ago.
I agree with that! :drinker:I will agree though that maybe to an untrained person it is since they haven't developed the capacity to do or even imagine something harder.
0 -
Havent gone through all the pages of this thread but i dont have a problem telling or being seen doing cardio at the gym. Sometimes i go and only do cardio and dont care if im seen by the regulars who see me weight training most of the time. I do it for heart/cardio health and for calorie burn if its needed.
It's an image thing? Is THAT what this is about?0
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