Do you view your old eating habits as a personal failing?
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with? Perhaps a little bit of both?
What's the practical difference between the two?
Anytime you really want something, you'll have to make compromises. That's the nature of wanting.
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Unlike most people, I DO see it as a personal failure. Mostly because I knew I was wrong, and that I should not be eating like that, yet I did it anyways. Sometimes by choice, sometimes because I couldn't help it. But yes, I see it as a failure.0
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herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Let's say I commute to work every day for 5 years. It takes me 30 minutes each way. And then one day I decide that I want to get there in 25 minutes and take steps to shorten my commute.herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Does that make all my past commutes failures, or my past behavior a failing?
I think the "failure" thing requires someone to actually be getting a result they specifically do not want or were trying to avoid. I think a lot of people simply don't care whether or not they are as healthy as they can be and/or think the trade-off of eating how they like to be the better side of the bargain.
Not unless there were negative consequences for arriving after 25 minutes. Eating more calories than you need makes you fat. That's quite clearly an example of a negative consequence.
I get what you're saying and I tend to agree. But....the world has changed, and being a 300 pounder doesn't carry nearly the negative consequences that it did, say, 100 years ago. There's a certain level of obesity our Mod Con culture allows us to get away with it - which is no doubt a big part of why we have so much of it.
So...while I viewed my weight gain as a personal failing, I don't know that it's right for everyone to do the same.
If you end up on My 600 Pound Life, that's a different story again, of course, because those people are genuinely helpless.
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herrspoons wrote: »I find it interesting that people are afraid of failure. Sometimes it's unavoidable and really just a learning opportunity.
For example, no one gets on a bike or in a car and rides or drives it away properly first time. You have to fail to do so, learn, and eventually succeed.
Failures generally allow you to learn from them (unless it's something like a failure to pack your parachute properly
:drinker:
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A failing, by definition, means you try to do something and fail at it.
Trying to stick to an eating pattern but being unable to do so is a failing.
Pigging out because you don't care is neither a failure nor a success, it just is.
Pigging out because you want to is a flawless victory (supposing what you ate was yum).
I've done all three at various times in my life.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with? Perhaps a little bit of both?
What's the difference between the two?
Anytime you really want something, you'll have to make compromises. That's the nature of wanting.
I think the example we're using here is believing one brownie is the correct way (based on the assumption that's how the naturally not fat eat) and conditioning yourself to conform. Versus accepting you like lots of brownies but realize it's not compatible with your goals and working around that.
In the first scenario you're correcting a flaw in your person. In the second scenario, while it might work to control your weight, you're ignoring the root of the problem instead of fixing your perceived defect. Or at least that's how I interpret the discussion.
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I was just willfully ignorant. Did I "fail" myself? That's a word with very strong, negative connotation. Perhaps I did.
I do know that I sure "cheated" myself out of years of fitness and vitality, and compromised my health during that time (high BP and cholesterol and depression, due to extreme sedentary lifestyle, too much food and smoking, etc.).
However, failure only occurs if I choose to continue on that path and do nothing to reverse the damage I did to my body. I changed "everything" for the better (well, I still eat McD's and Taco Bell, etc.--just far less often, and in appropriate quantity, LOL). And by doing so, I did not fail. I simply lost my way for a while.0 -
AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with? Perhaps a little bit of both?
What's the difference between the two?
Anytime you really want something, you'll have to make compromises. That's the nature of wanting.
I think the example we're using here is believing one brownie is the correct way (based on the assumption that's how the naturally not fat eat) and conditioning yourself to conform. Versus accepting you like lots of brownies but realize it's not compatible with your goals and working around that.
In the first scenario you're correcting a flaw in your person. In the second scenario, while it might work to control your weight, you're ignoring the root of the problem instead of working on your perceived defect. Or at least that's how I interpret the discussion.
Well I for one don't accept that wanting more than one brownie is a "flaw". If someone wants to make that assumption, they're welcome to, but it's not one I share.
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I think @mamapeach910's use of "personal failing" as defined in the OP could be changed to "habit" and this is where some of the confusion is coming in.
But I also find the desire to label nothing we do as failure to be interesting. I am terrified of failure, so much so that I'd rather not try than fail. This is a problem that I'm trying to work on, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one who is afraid of it.
My eating habits absolutely had to be corrected. I went from being a very active 14-15 year old to a less active 16-17 year old due to my priorities shifting, to a hypothyroid 18-19 year old. What I was doing at 14 clearly needed to change for my 19 year old self as evidenced by the 50lbs I had gained.
I wouldn't define it as a failure, though, because I don't want to feel the other emotions that goes with failure for me. But do I think it? Yup.
I think there's a difference between not defining anything as failure and reserving the word for where it belongs. If I decide I'm going to lose weight, watch Fat Sick & Nearly Dead, drink liquid kale for 3 days, then eat a pan of brownies, I have failed at the "buy my branded line of juicers" diet. If I am not paying attention to diet and just living normal life, then eat a pan of brownies, I haven't failed at living normal life, just made a questionable decision while living it. Trying to describe everything one has done in the past as "failure" in relation to what one is doing today sounds more like someone trying to convince themselves they're doing the right thing now than any realistic assessment of the past.0 -
A failing, by definition, means you try to do something and fail at it.
Trying to stick to an eating pattern but being unable to do so is a failing.
Pigging out because you don't care is neither a failure nor a success, it just is.
Pigging out because you want to is a flawless victory (supposing what you ate was yum).
I've done all three at various times in my life.
I like this. I don't consider my overeating years a failure because I wasn't even trying to get healthy or lose weight.0 -
I think @mamapeach910's use of "personal failing" as defined in the OP could be changed to "habit" and this is where some of the confusion is coming in.
But I also find the desire to label nothing we do as failure to be interesting. I am terrified of failure, so much so that I'd rather not try than fail. This is a problem that I'm trying to work on, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one who is afraid of it.
My eating habits absolutely had to be corrected. I went from being a very active 14-15 year old to a less active 16-17 year old due to my priorities shifting, to a hypothyroid 18-19 year old. What I was doing at 14 clearly needed to change for my 19 year old self as evidenced by the 50lbs I had gained.
I wouldn't define it as a failure, though, because I don't want to feel the other emotions that goes with failure for me. But do I think it? Yup.
I think there's a difference between not defining anything as failure and reserving the word for where it belongs. If I decide I'm going to lose weight, watch Fat Sick & Nearly Dead, drink liquid kale for 3 days, then eat a pan of brownies, I have failed at the "buy my branded line of juicers" diet. If I am not paying attention to diet and just living normal life, then eat a pan of brownies, I haven't failed at living normal life, just made a questionable decision while living it. Trying to describe everything one has done in the past as "failure" in relation to what one is doing today sounds more like someone trying to convince themselves they're doing the right thing now than any realistic assessment of the past.
That sounds like a heft dose of projection and avoidance of the past, sorry.
Having failed at controlling your eating isn't failing at life and no one ever said it was. It was just making a mistake, and this was clarified earlier.
If you can't acknowledge and own responsibility for your own mistakes to the point that OTHERS doing so causes you to twist what's being said like this, I have to wonder .... why are you so afraid of being ever having been wrong?
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with? Perhaps a little bit of both?
What's the difference between the two?
Anytime you really want something, you'll have to make compromises. That's the nature of wanting.
I think the example we're using here is believing one brownie is the correct way (based on the assumption that's how the naturally not fat eat) and conditioning yourself to conform. Versus accepting you like lots of brownies but realize it's not compatible with your goals and working around that.
In the first scenario you're correcting a flaw in your person. In the second scenario, while it might work to control your weight, you're ignoring the root of the problem instead of working on your perceived defect. Or at least that's how I interpret the discussion.
Well I for one don't accept that wanting more than one brownie is a "flaw". If someone wants to make that assumption, they're welcome to, but it's not one I share.
Well, there's somewhere between wanting more than one brownie and not being able to stop yourself until the whole pan is gone that it stops being with the range of normative behavior and starts being a problem.
I agree that it's perfectly okay to want more than one brownie. I was giving the example of one brownie because, short old lady that I am, that's all that will fit in my particular calorie limit. Someone else's mileage may vary.
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I think @mamapeach910's use of "personal failing" as defined in the OP could be changed to "habit" and this is where some of the confusion is coming in.
But I also find the desire to label nothing we do as failure to be interesting. I am terrified of failure, so much so that I'd rather not try than fail. This is a problem that I'm trying to work on, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one who is afraid of it.
My eating habits absolutely had to be corrected. I went from being a very active 14-15 year old to a less active 16-17 year old due to my priorities shifting, to a hypothyroid 18-19 year old. What I was doing at 14 clearly needed to change for my 19 year old self as evidenced by the 50lbs I had gained.
I wouldn't define it as a failure, though, because I don't want to feel the other emotions that goes with failure for me. But do I think it? Yup.
I think there's a difference between not defining anything as failure and reserving the word for where it belongs. If I decide I'm going to lose weight, watch Fat Sick & Nearly Dead, drink liquid kale for 3 days, then eat a pan of brownies, I have failed at the "buy my branded line of juicers" diet. If I am not paying attention to diet and just living normal life, then eat a pan of brownies, I haven't failed at living normal life, just made a questionable decision while living it. Trying to describe everything one has done in the past as "failure" in relation to what one is doing today sounds more like someone trying to convince themselves they're doing the right thing now than any realistic assessment of the past.
I'm going to have to disagree with you there. I think the power of the word "failure" as seen in some of these responses, including my own, comes from the fact that we give it that much power - we only use it where it "belongs." I can only speak for myself but I know for me, I only want to reserve the word for circumstances that end in such absolute, without a doubt, being unable to succeed; I see this in a lot of the other posts as well.
I can admit, though, that choosing to not try than failure is just another form of failure, in the long run.
ETA: I am trying to get at that I think the word "failure" belongs in a lot more places than we're comfortable with it being, but that's on us, not on the word.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »I think @mamapeach910's use of "personal failing" as defined in the OP could be changed to "habit" and this is where some of the confusion is coming in.
But I also find the desire to label nothing we do as failure to be interesting. I am terrified of failure, so much so that I'd rather not try than fail. This is a problem that I'm trying to work on, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one who is afraid of it.
My eating habits absolutely had to be corrected. I went from being a very active 14-15 year old to a less active 16-17 year old due to my priorities shifting, to a hypothyroid 18-19 year old. What I was doing at 14 clearly needed to change for my 19 year old self as evidenced by the 50lbs I had gained.
I wouldn't define it as a failure, though, because I don't want to feel the other emotions that goes with failure for me. But do I think it? Yup.
I think there's a difference between not defining anything as failure and reserving the word for where it belongs. If I decide I'm going to lose weight, watch Fat Sick & Nearly Dead, drink liquid kale for 3 days, then eat a pan of brownies, I have failed at the "buy my branded line of juicers" diet. If I am not paying attention to diet and just living normal life, then eat a pan of brownies, I haven't failed at living normal life, just made a questionable decision while living it. Trying to describe everything one has done in the past as "failure" in relation to what one is doing today sounds more like someone trying to convince themselves they're doing the right thing now than any realistic assessment of the past.
That sounds like a heft dose of projection and avoidance of the past, sorry.
Having failed at controlling your eating isn't failing at life and no one ever said it was. It was just making a mistake, and this was clarified earlier.
If you can't acknowledge and own responsibility for your own mistakes to the point that OTHERS doing so causes you to twist what's being said like this, I have to wonder .... why are you so afraid of being ever having been wrong?
I find that ironic, because from my POV, it is you who constantly adds emotional baggage to what other people have said or done. If they refuse to call something a failure, they must be disordered. If they cut something out, it must be disordered. If they use the word "addiction" instead of "habit" it must be disordered. You seem to project a lot of denial onto what other people mean, which leads to threads like this, where everyone spends 3 days debating semantics.
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herrspoons wrote: »I find it interesting that people are afraid of failure. Sometimes it's unavoidable and really just a learning opportunity.
For example, no one gets on a bike or in a car and rides or drives it away properly first time. You have to fail to do so, learn, and eventually succeed.
Failures generally allow you to learn from them (unless it's something like a failure to pack your parachute properly).
Yup. It's what I tell everyone but myself about failure, so I know it's a me issue and not an anything else issue. People look at me like I'm crazy, and I think it's because many of us don't look at failure as an opportunity to learn but as something you're unable to recover from.
Which, of course, is silly, but I'm also not saying that it's rational.
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But that's just an opinion. Missing out on something you want/like is also a negative consequence. Just because you put "not being fat" at a higher priority does not mean everyone else does or should.herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Let's say I commute to work every day for 5 years. It takes me 30 minutes each way. And then one day I decide that I want to get there in 25 minutes and take steps to shorten my commute.herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Does that make all my past commutes failures, or my past behavior a failing?
I think the "failure" thing requires someone to actually be getting a result they specifically do not want or were trying to avoid. I think a lot of people simply don't care whether or not they are as healthy as they can be and/or think the trade-off of eating how they like to be the better side of the bargain.
Not unless there were negative consequences for arriving after 25 minutes. Eating more calories than you need makes you fat. That's quite clearly an example of a negative consequence.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »I think @mamapeach910's use of "personal failing" as defined in the OP could be changed to "habit" and this is where some of the confusion is coming in.
But I also find the desire to label nothing we do as failure to be interesting. I am terrified of failure, so much so that I'd rather not try than fail. This is a problem that I'm trying to work on, and I have a feeling I'm not the only one who is afraid of it.
My eating habits absolutely had to be corrected. I went from being a very active 14-15 year old to a less active 16-17 year old due to my priorities shifting, to a hypothyroid 18-19 year old. What I was doing at 14 clearly needed to change for my 19 year old self as evidenced by the 50lbs I had gained.
I wouldn't define it as a failure, though, because I don't want to feel the other emotions that goes with failure for me. But do I think it? Yup.
I think there's a difference between not defining anything as failure and reserving the word for where it belongs. If I decide I'm going to lose weight, watch Fat Sick & Nearly Dead, drink liquid kale for 3 days, then eat a pan of brownies, I have failed at the "buy my branded line of juicers" diet. If I am not paying attention to diet and just living normal life, then eat a pan of brownies, I haven't failed at living normal life, just made a questionable decision while living it. Trying to describe everything one has done in the past as "failure" in relation to what one is doing today sounds more like someone trying to convince themselves they're doing the right thing now than any realistic assessment of the past.
That sounds like a heft dose of projection and avoidance of the past, sorry.
Having failed at controlling your eating isn't failing at life and no one ever said it was. It was just making a mistake, and this was clarified earlier.
If you can't acknowledge and own responsibility for your own mistakes to the point that OTHERS doing so causes you to twist what's being said like this, I have to wonder .... why are you so afraid of being ever having been wrong?
I find that ironic, because from my POV, it is you who constantly adds emotional baggage to what other people have said or done. If they refuse to call something a failure, they must be disordered. [
Nope. Try again. From my post earlier:I think a lot of people are balking at the words "personal failure" because the sound loaded.
Whatever. If you feel more comfortable calling it a bad choice or a poor prior behavior, that's cool too.If they cut something out, it must be disordered.
Find a post where I've said that. Please do. I, in fact, often recommend doing just that to people having trouble with overconsumption of sugar to reset their palates.If they use the word "addiction" instead of "habit" it must be disordered. You seem to project a lot of denial onto what other people mean, which leads to threads like this, where everyone spends 3 days debating semantics.
What? Because I don't believe in food addiction and argue against it you've constructed a scenario wherein I'm in denial... of WHAT exactly?
You do tend to see boogeymen in the bushes, don't you?
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herrspoons wrote: »I find it interesting that people are afraid of failure. Sometimes it's unavoidable and really just a learning opportunity.
For example, no one gets on a bike or in a car and rides or drives it away properly first time. You have to fail to do so, learn, and eventually succeed.
Failures generally allow you to learn from them (unless it's something like a failure to pack your parachute properly).
Learning to fail and not to find fear of it a deterrent against even trying is a major life skill that I think more people would be better off knowing. I used to have the sense that women were more likely to suffer from it than men and thought that was something that could (and would) change as more girls got involved in athletics, as that seemed to be a big source of this lesson for men.
Not sure what I think now, except that I still think it's important.0 -
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Agreed.herrspoons wrote: »I find it interesting that people are afraid of failure. Sometimes it's unavoidable and really just a learning opportunity.
For example, no one gets on a bike or in a car and rides or drives it away properly first time. You have to fail to do so, learn, and eventually succeed.
Failures generally allow you to learn from them (unless it's something like a failure to pack your parachute properly).
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AlabasterVerve wrote: »AlabasterVerve wrote: »Do you work on changing yourself and the way you think about food to make your weight loss successful or do you opt for workarounds and compromises you can be happy with? Perhaps a little bit of both?
What's the difference between the two?
Anytime you really want something, you'll have to make compromises. That's the nature of wanting.
I think the example we're using here is believing one brownie is the correct way (based on the assumption that's how the naturally not fat eat) and conditioning yourself to conform. Versus accepting you like lots of brownies but realize it's not compatible with your goals and working around that.
In the first scenario you're correcting a flaw in your person. In the second scenario, while it might work to control your weight, you're ignoring the root of the problem instead of fixing your perceived defect. Or at least that's how I interpret the discussion.
I think it's more that assuming that you have a goal to be healthy and of a healthy weight (even if you aren't actively thinking about your weight or trying to monitor it), is habitually overeating (on brownies or otherwise) such that you become overweight a failure?
Even phrased like that I find myself resisting the term--which maybe says something about me, I dunno--but it's not really about whether you want multiple brownies or not. It's about whether you end up eating them so regularly that you gain weight.
Like I mentioned that over-indulgence at restaurants was one of my issues in gaining weight. Lots of people I ate with seemed to do the same and weren't overweight--I never was the one who ate the most or anything. It's that they made more of a priority for working out or made sure to eat less at other times or other things that I, in that stage of my life, did not do.0 -
i think 'personal failing' is... not the right term (though now it might be)
i think its more... knowing its bad for you and not caring, or not realizing JUST how bad it is.
Once you start to make healthier choices, it starts to spread in your life. Last year, I quit smoking. This year, I'm working on my weight (eating less, exercising more), next year... who knows (will probably still be weight- i have a lot to lose! LOL)0 -
So, on a site generally used by humans, do you think the vast majority of visitors would consider the importance of a trait to be binary?herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
But that's just an opinion. Missing out on something you want/like is also a negative consequence. Just because you put "not being fat" at a higher priority does not mean everyone else does or should.herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Let's say I commute to work every day for 5 years. It takes me 30 minutes each way. And then one day I decide that I want to get there in 25 minutes and take steps to shorten my commute.herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Does that make all my past commutes failures, or my past behavior a failing?
I think the "failure" thing requires someone to actually be getting a result they specifically do not want or were trying to avoid. I think a lot of people simply don't care whether or not they are as healthy as they can be and/or think the trade-off of eating how they like to be the better side of the bargain.
Not unless there were negative consequences for arriving after 25 minutes. Eating more calories than you need makes you fat. That's quite clearly an example of a negative consequence.
So, on a calorie counting site, do you think the vast majority of visitors would consider not being fat as important or unimportant?
I'm a robot, by the way.
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This is only valid if nobody's priorities ever change. Hence the example of having changed priorities regarding commute time. It's just that people don't put a bunch of ridiculous emotion and moral judgments surrounding their commute to work, which is why it makes a better example because it's not clouded by value judgments.herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
But that's just an opinion. Missing out on something you want/like is also a negative consequence. Just because you put "not being fat" at a higher priority does not mean everyone else does or should.herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Let's say I commute to work every day for 5 years. It takes me 30 minutes each way. And then one day I decide that I want to get there in 25 minutes and take steps to shorten my commute.herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Does that make all my past commutes failures, or my past behavior a failing?
I think the "failure" thing requires someone to actually be getting a result they specifically do not want or were trying to avoid. I think a lot of people simply don't care whether or not they are as healthy as they can be and/or think the trade-off of eating how they like to be the better side of the bargain.
Not unless there were negative consequences for arriving after 25 minutes. Eating more calories than you need makes you fat. That's quite clearly an example of a negative consequence.
So, on a calorie counting site, do you think the vast majority of visitors would consider not being fat as important or unimportant?
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No, it's not a personal failing. It's ignorance.
Most people have no idea how many calories are in what they are eating until they already have a weight problem and then they start looking more closely at what they are eating.
When I was growing up, food was a pleasure to be enjoyed. And when you sat down to enjoy something, you wanted to enjoy it for as long as you could. Calories were never a concern. I had no idea how many calories were in things, nor did I care. I simply ate when I was hungry, and stopped eating when I was not hungry. This was simply the way my family ate. There was always more than enough food so that you could have "seconds" or "thirds" if you wanted.
Of course, this is a sure-fire way to eating a calorie surplus.
But I don't think most people think about this until they have a weight problem. Then they start thinking about what they are eating.
So now the question is, once you are no longer ignorant, then is it a personal failing if you go back to your old eating habits.
Yes, obviously then it is within your control and if you know what you are doing and you do it anyway, then you have failed.
However, the people who like to bang this "personal failure" drum are ignoring the massive biological drive your body has to try and revert back to its previous fat stores. Maintaining a caloric deficit is hard. You're going to be hungry. For a year or more just go get to maintenance. And when you get to maintenance, you may find you have to eat 10-15% less food than someone of the same weight who was never obese due to the metabolic slowdown caused by increased skeletal muscle efficiency in response to fat loss. It takes tremendous willpower to resist that discomfort for years.
So yes, failures to stick to a diet are personal failures, but there is a reason why most people fail at weight loss.
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herrspoons wrote: »I find it interesting that people are afraid of failure. Sometimes it's unavoidable and really just a learning opportunity.
For example, no one gets on a bike or in a car and rides or drives it away properly first time. You have to fail to do so, learn, and eventually succeed.
Failures generally allow you to learn from them (unless it's something like a failure to pack your parachute properly).
Yup. It's what I tell everyone but myself about failure, so I know it's a me issue and not an anything else issue. People look at me like I'm crazy, and I think it's because many of us don't look at failure as an opportunity to learn but as something you're unable to recover from.
Which, of course, is silly, but I'm also not saying that it's rational.
Ironically, your willingness to see your fear of failure as a personal failing is what will help you address it head on and stare it down.
I admire your self-awareness and the work you're doing. Stepping up and speaking your fears is actually a really emotionally brave thing to do, and I hope that it helps you to feel less afraid of "failing." I don't fear failure to the point of not trying, but to the point of self-sabotage or self-criticism beyond what is healthy? Oh, yeah. I get that. So, good on you for working to get stronger so that you can go after your goals without fear.0 -
herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
But that's just an opinion. Missing out on something you want/like is also a negative consequence. Just because you put "not being fat" at a higher priority does not mean everyone else does or should.herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Let's say I commute to work every day for 5 years. It takes me 30 minutes each way. And then one day I decide that I want to get there in 25 minutes and take steps to shorten my commute.herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Does that make all my past commutes failures, or my past behavior a failing?
I think the "failure" thing requires someone to actually be getting a result they specifically do not want or were trying to avoid. I think a lot of people simply don't care whether or not they are as healthy as they can be and/or think the trade-off of eating how they like to be the better side of the bargain.
Not unless there were negative consequences for arriving after 25 minutes. Eating more calories than you need makes you fat. That's quite clearly an example of a negative consequence.
So, on a calorie counting site, do you think the vast majority of visitors would consider not being fat as important or unimportant?
Idk. If I wasn't losing weight now I would consider that failing. Most of my life I've been around my "ideal" weight (a few times tipping the balance and becoming too skinny or too heavy for my taste, but it always worked out and went back to baseline without any concerted effort or diet).
The last 5 years or so, I moved in with my boyfriend. He cooks delicious and fattening meals. I happily ate them until stuffed every night. I steadily put on 5 or more lbs a year. At a certain point I began to get fat and realized it wasn't just a phase, I was going to have to go on a friggin diet. Which I have and it's working. But at no time was I under the illusion that eating in excess wouldn't lead to weight gain. I was just enjoying it enough that it was worth it. (Although dieting and being overweight both suck enough that I don't intend to do it again).
I think it would make more sense to view my overeating as a failure if I had done it thinking it wouldn't lead to weight gain. Lol
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It's interesting to me how many people here automatically associate the words "personally failure" with some sense of shame.
Probably because so many people throw that term around with the intent of shaming. It's often leveled at people who fail at weight loss with no regard for the biological mechanisms that work against weight loss. As if the decision to fail was made completely arbitrarily for no reason.0 -
This sub-thread reminds me of the movie Defending Your Life.herrspoons wrote: »I find it interesting that people are afraid of failure. Sometimes it's unavoidable and really just a learning opportunity.
For example, no one gets on a bike or in a car and rides or drives it away properly first time. You have to fail to do so, learn, and eventually succeed.
Failures generally allow you to learn from them (unless it's something like a failure to pack your parachute properly).
Yup. It's what I tell everyone but myself about failure, so I know it's a me issue and not an anything else issue. People look at me like I'm crazy, and I think it's because many of us don't look at failure as an opportunity to learn but as something you're unable to recover from.
Which, of course, is silly, but I'm also not saying that it's rational.
Ironically, your willingness to see your fear of failure as a personal failing is what will help you address it head on and stare it down.
I admire your self-awareness and the work you're doing. Stepping up and speaking your fears is actually a really emotionally brave thing to do, and I hope that it helps you to feel less afraid of "failing." I don't fear failure to the point of not trying, but to the point of self-sabotage or self-criticism beyond what is healthy? Oh, yeah. I get that. So, good on you for working to get stronger so that you can go after your goals without fear.
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That you're using a false dichotomy.herrspoons wrote: »
So, on a site generally used by humans, do you think the vast majority of visitors would consider the importance of a trait to be binary?herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
But that's just an opinion. Missing out on something you want/like is also a negative consequence. Just because you put "not being fat" at a higher priority does not mean everyone else does or should.herrspoons wrote: »LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
Let's say I commute to work every day for 5 years. It takes me 30 minutes each way. And then one day I decide that I want to get there in 25 minutes and take steps to shorten my commute.herrspoons wrote: »If someone becomes fat then they have failed to eat at a maintenance level of calories. This may be intentional or through ignorance.
Yes or no?
Does that make all my past commutes failures, or my past behavior a failing?
I think the "failure" thing requires someone to actually be getting a result they specifically do not want or were trying to avoid. I think a lot of people simply don't care whether or not they are as healthy as they can be and/or think the trade-off of eating how they like to be the better side of the bargain.
Not unless there were negative consequences for arriving after 25 minutes. Eating more calories than you need makes you fat. That's quite clearly an example of a negative consequence.
So, on a calorie counting site, do you think the vast majority of visitors would consider not being fat as important or unimportant?
I'm a robot, by the way.
And your point is?
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