bye bye sugar and flour
Replies
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aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »rebeccaschlaht wrote: »boopsiegrl wrote: »I have decided to give up flour and sugar foods I know that also will mean I am giving up processed food since it will be one of the culprits...Anyone out there done this and what has your weight loss success been?
I cut out all processed foods and I dont eat anything with added sugar. I am not afraid of sugar I am just doing this because I want to. I eat foods that have sugar in them naturally. I have lost 27lbs since Feb 23rd but I count my calories daily and exercise as much as i can. I walk up hills for my workouts. I know lots of people would disagree with me about what I eat but It really works for ME.
what would be the difference between added and natural sugar, that makes you avoid one and eat the other?
foods with naturally occurring sugars like fruit usually mitigate the effects with fiber, chewing resistance, and satiating nutrients, making it more difficult to overconsume.
Thanks, but I did not ask about fiber, I asked about sugar...
What's your question then?
what is the difference between natural sugar and added sugar? If your answer is "fiber" then the answer is there is not a difference. Because I can eat added sugar and still consume fiber, or if I want I can eat fiber with my added sugar...
Finally, I was asking the other poster and you decided to jump in ...but please, continue.
My answer was "fiber, chewing resistance, and satiating nutrients," among other things, like water, for example...
* * *
Eating foods with naturally occurring sugar is different from eating foods with added sugar in their effects on the body's complex physiology, hormonal balance, etc.
So what's the difference between a homemade rhubarb sauce with a little added sugar vs. a homemade apple sauce with none (since apples are naturally sweeter)?
Foods are different, but I think we have to look at everything in context.0 -
One milky way bar (regular size - 2.05 oz) has 35g of sugar and 1 gram of fiber (and 245 cal).
One medium size apple (appx 182 g) has 19 g of sugar and 4 grams of fiber (and 95 cal).
So, yes 35g of sugar = 35g of sugar. But if I get those 35g of sugar from a milky way bar, as opposed to a couple of apples, I miss out on about 7g of fiber (which would help slow the metabolization of all that sugar, meaning a lower blood-glucose spike), and end up eating about 55 more calories. To say nothing of the nutritional impact of choosing candy over fruit.
Unless you are eating it straight from the Domino sack, sugar does not occur in a vacuum.0 -
What iftlflag1620 wrote: »One milky way bar (regular size - 2.05 oz) has 35g of sugar and 1 gram of fiber (and 245 cal).
One medium size apple (appx 182 g) has 19 g of sugar and 4 grams of fiber (and 95 cal).
So, yes 35g of sugar = 35g of sugar. But if I get those 35g of sugar from a milky way bar, as opposed to a couple of apples, I miss out on about 7g of fiber (which would help slow the metabolization of all that sugar, meaning a lower blood-glucose spike), and end up eating about 55 more calories. To say nothing of the nutritional impact of choosing candy over fruit.
Unless you are eating it straight from the Domino sack, sugar does not occur in a vacuum.
What if I've met my fiber (and other) goals for the day and I have room for those 55 additional calories?
I wouldn't tell someone, in a vacuum, to avoid a food because it has 55 more calories than another food. Why would it make a difference in this instance?0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »One milky way bar (regular size - 2.05 oz) has 35g of sugar and 1 gram of fiber (and 245 cal).
One medium size apple (appx 182 g) has 19 g of sugar and 4 grams of fiber (and 95 cal).
So, yes 35g of sugar = 35g of sugar. But if I get those 35g of sugar from a milky way bar, as opposed to a couple of apples, I miss out on about 7g of fiber (which would help slow the metabolization of all that sugar, meaning a lower blood-glucose spike), and end up eating about 55 more calories. To say nothing of the nutritional impact of choosing candy over fruit.
Unless you are eating it straight from the Domino sack, sugar does not occur in a vacuum.
what if I have already hit my fiber for the day and eat he milky way? Does it magically go into the good category because the fiber makes the added sugar OK?0 -
Actually, they did answer the question with fiber and nutrients. Because it is impossible to get the "10 grams of apple sugar" without eating the apple to get it which contains fiber, Vitamins A/C/E/K, Potassium, Omega 3/6 fatty acids, and 191g of water in a large apple.
Not true. People juice fruit all the time. Some even claim it's magically healthy.
More significantly, you can add sugar to a wide variety of foods to make them more palatable to your taste. I dislike oatmeal with added sugar, but someone who enjoys oatmeal more with it shouldn't be told that it's somehow deadly when added to oatmeal but just fine when in an apple. After all, if sugar were so terrible, there are other, less sugary, ways of getting the nutrients and fiber in fruits.
I'm not addressing the "natural" argument now, but I really don't see the logic.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mynameisoliverqueen wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »You people are toxic. I'm done here. Enjoy your added sugar!
A lot of people are leaving MFP because of the clique of so-called experts that think they know better than dieticians or nutritionists because they have nothing better to do than post on the forums. You are correct they are toxic and MFP won't do anything about them......
From what I've seen some people come on these boards saying that nutritionists have told them?
A good discussion here on the forums trying to flesh out actual science from pseudo-woo-science is a good, healthy thing.
Let me tell you what's REALLY toxic.
The magical thinking that if you just eat the "right" way, you're safe.
You'll dodge every medical bullet.
You'll naturally be the weight you want.
Well guess what?
That's just not true. Issues of health and weight are far more complex than the internet gurus touting certain ways of eating would have you believe. And you can still get sick and you can still not lose weight even if you do everything "right".
You know when the age of magical thinking is? Childhood. It's tempting to return to the security of certainty, the trust in "true belief", but being an adult means knowing there are no guarantees in life.
This .... this belief.... this certainty... is a faith of sorts.... and it covers itself in a veneer of science with no real proof, which makes itself all the more enticing and easier to fall prey to ... and harder to separate from real fact.
So? Stay and learn and have your eyes opened, or leave and be convinced we're all bullies and learn the hard way eventually.
Faith or fact? Your choice.
We can learn a lot from children who still have magical ways of thinking. Adults who retain their child-like sense of wonder are the creatives who bring along progress in all disciplines.0 -
@lemurcat12 I was going to call you on the rhubarb comparison but my assumptions fell apart. I figured the sugars might be the same between rhubarb and apple, but the rhubarb sweetness is hidden by it's acidity. I'm wrong. Apple, 17g natural sugars, 5% daily value. Rhubarb, 6g of natural sugars, 2% of daily value (one cup each).0
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janejellyroll wrote: »What iftlflag1620 wrote: »One milky way bar (regular size - 2.05 oz) has 35g of sugar and 1 gram of fiber (and 245 cal).
One medium size apple (appx 182 g) has 19 g of sugar and 4 grams of fiber (and 95 cal).
So, yes 35g of sugar = 35g of sugar. But if I get those 35g of sugar from a milky way bar, as opposed to a couple of apples, I miss out on about 7g of fiber (which would help slow the metabolization of all that sugar, meaning a lower blood-glucose spike), and end up eating about 55 more calories. To say nothing of the nutritional impact of choosing candy over fruit.
Unless you are eating it straight from the Domino sack, sugar does not occur in a vacuum.
What if I've met my fiber (and other) goals for the day and I have room for those 55 additional calories?
I wouldn't tell someone, in a vacuum, to avoid a food because it has 55 more calories than another food. Why would it make a difference in this instance?
Yup... it all depends on context. I stated earlier that I would choose the fun-sized Snickers (oh no, not that again!) because I'm usually scrambling to get more fat in my day after I've pre-planned my meals (which have already provided me plenty of fiber and vitamins).
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Dang work being back to a normal pace. I've missed so much edumacation!
So apple sugar = goooooooood.
the sugar i just had in the 1/2 slice cheesecake brought in for nurses week? = baaaaaaaaaaad.
I'm glad my body is a fricken GENIUS and can say "oh, the sugar in that frut is from a healthy food, but the sugar in that pie came from a 'bad' food so i'm gonna make you far/give you cancer/cause you to grow balls / sacrifice your unborn to remind yo that this food is evil and you must never eat it for the rest of your life!"
Truth be told, I only skimmed over all the pages, and that was barely.
Have a great week loves.
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The World Health Organization might enlighten you better than anyone here on the forum:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Actually, they did answer the question with fiber and nutrients. Because it is impossible to get the "10 grams of apple sugar" without eating the apple to get it which contains fiber, Vitamins A/C/E/K, Potassium, Omega 3/6 fatty acids, and 191g of water in a large apple.
Not true. People juice fruit all the time. Some even claim it's magically healthy.
More significantly, you can add sugar to a wide variety of foods to make them more palatable to your taste. I dislike oatmeal with added sugar, but someone who enjoys oatmeal more with it shouldn't be told that it's somehow deadly when added to oatmeal but just fine when in an apple. After all, if sugar were so terrible, there are other, less sugary, ways of getting the nutrients and fiber in fruits.
I'm not addressing the "natural" argument now, but I really don't see the logic.
Heck yeah. Oatmeal with sugar, some kinda dairy, some kinda fruit, and maybe even peanut butter if the numbers allow for the day!0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mynameisoliverqueen wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »You people are toxic. I'm done here. Enjoy your added sugar!
A lot of people are leaving MFP because of the clique of so-called experts that think they know better than dieticians or nutritionists because they have nothing better to do than post on the forums. You are correct they are toxic and MFP won't do anything about them......
From what I've seen some people come on these boards saying that nutritionists have told them?
A good discussion here on the forums trying to flesh out actual science from pseudo-woo-science is a good, healthy thing.
Let me tell you what's REALLY toxic.
The magical thinking that if you just eat the "right" way, you're safe.
You'll dodge every medical bullet.
You'll naturally be the weight you want.
Well guess what?
That's just not true. Issues of health and weight are far more complex than the internet gurus touting certain ways of eating would have you believe. And you can still get sick and you can still not lose weight even if you do everything "right".
You know when the age of magical thinking is? Childhood. It's tempting to return to the security of certainty, the trust in "true belief", but being an adult means knowing there are no guarantees in life.
This .... this belief.... this certainty... is a faith of sorts.... and it covers itself in a veneer of science with no real proof, which makes itself all the more enticing and easier to fall prey to ... and harder to separate from real fact.
So? Stay and learn and have your eyes opened, or leave and be convinced we're all bullies and learn the hard way eventually.
Faith or fact? Your choice.
We can learn a lot from children who still have magical ways of thinking. Adults who retain their child-like sense of wonder are the creatives who bring along progress in all disciplines.
I'd rather not take nutritional advice from someone who is applying magical thinking to issues that require scientific solutions, thank you.0 -
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mamapeach910 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »What iftlflag1620 wrote: »One milky way bar (regular size - 2.05 oz) has 35g of sugar and 1 gram of fiber (and 245 cal).
One medium size apple (appx 182 g) has 19 g of sugar and 4 grams of fiber (and 95 cal).
So, yes 35g of sugar = 35g of sugar. But if I get those 35g of sugar from a milky way bar, as opposed to a couple of apples, I miss out on about 7g of fiber (which would help slow the metabolization of all that sugar, meaning a lower blood-glucose spike), and end up eating about 55 more calories. To say nothing of the nutritional impact of choosing candy over fruit.
Unless you are eating it straight from the Domino sack, sugar does not occur in a vacuum.
What if I've met my fiber (and other) goals for the day and I have room for those 55 additional calories?
I wouldn't tell someone, in a vacuum, to avoid a food because it has 55 more calories than another food. Why would it make a difference in this instance?
Yup... it all depends on context. I stated earlier that I would choose the fun-sized Snickers (oh no, not that again!) because I'm usually scrambling to get more fat in my day after I've pre-planned my meals (which have already provided me plenty of fiber and vitamins).
Fun-Sized Snickers, AKA literal food of the devil?
I'm with you. Most of my meals are vegetables/vegan protein, so when I have around 100 calories left for the day, I usually plug in something fun because my other goals have been met. I usually choose something savory, but the principle is the same.0 -
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
i eat them as just the sprouts, because then, they havent been "processed" into real potatoes.0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »The World Health Organization might enlighten you better than anyone here on the forum:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
wasn't there a study going around a bit back when this first came out, showing that the "evidence" that they based this was off was biased or something like that..?0 -
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mynameisoliverqueen wrote: »I cut out all white sugar and flour and within 2 weeks I lost 13 pounds. I switched to all whole foods, clean foods, I am not hungry and the inches are flying off. The processed food is the culprit, even salt has sugar in it.
No doubt the doubters will be saying that it is not possible.
What isn't possible? Losing 13 lbs when you start a diet or cut carbs? I'm sure it's super common, although meaningless.
Cutting out "white sugar" and flour (all flour or perhaps only white)? No, I think it's perfectly possible and, as I said above, not all that difficult. I just found it pointless (it's especially pointless if you are eating "nonwhite" sugar or honey or whatever). Obviously depending on your medical or self-control issues it might not be pointless. I cut out added sugar from time to time since I find it useful, but am not interested in doing so permanently. I don't eat large amounts of flour, and don't see any purpose whatsoever to cut it out, although I do tend to choose whole grain when possible. Also, I have no blood sugar issues, which affects my reasoning here.
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hollyrayburn wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
Lemur, Zmusic is the troll-y type. Not sure if you got in on some of his other threads.
Now.. I'm experiencing PTSD symptoms with flashbacks involving empty spaghetti sauce jars and margaritas...0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »The World Health Organization might enlighten you better than anyone here on the forum:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
Thanks for the link to the World Health report and all your intelligent and knowledgeable posts.
LOL0 -
aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »rebeccaschlaht wrote: »boopsiegrl wrote: »I have decided to give up flour and sugar foods I know that also will mean I am giving up processed food since it will be one of the culprits...Anyone out there done this and what has your weight loss success been?
I cut out all processed foods and I dont eat anything with added sugar. I am not afraid of sugar I am just doing this because I want to. I eat foods that have sugar in them naturally. I have lost 27lbs since Feb 23rd but I count my calories daily and exercise as much as i can. I walk up hills for my workouts. I know lots of people would disagree with me about what I eat but It really works for ME.
what would be the difference between added and natural sugar, that makes you avoid one and eat the other?
foods with naturally occurring sugars like fruit usually mitigate the effects with fiber, chewing resistance, and satiating nutrients, making it more difficult to overconsume.
Thanks, but I did not ask about fiber, I asked about sugar...
What's your question then?
what is the difference between natural sugar and added sugar? If your answer is "fiber" then the answer is there is not a difference. Because I can eat added sugar and still consume fiber, or if I want I can eat fiber with my added sugar...
Finally, I was asking the other poster and you decided to jump in ...but please, continue.
My answer was "fiber, chewing resistance, and satiating nutrients," among other things, like water, for example...
Despite common misconceptions, we really don't know it all when it comes to nutrition. You can't substitute an apple for water, fiber supplement, vitamin, and some sugar. It's not that simple.
Eating foods with naturally occurring sugar is different from eating foods with added sugar in their effects on the body's complex physiology, hormonal balance, etc.
If you don't believe this, that's fine. Don't preach what works for you. Be humble and open-minded. Nobody knows it all. And if you know just a little bit, you're much more likely to think you know it all!
It sounds to me like you know just a little bit.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mynameisoliverqueen wrote: »aqsylvester wrote: »You people are toxic. I'm done here. Enjoy your added sugar!
A lot of people are leaving MFP because of the clique of so-called experts that think they know better than dieticians or nutritionists because they have nothing better to do than post on the forums. You are correct they are toxic and MFP won't do anything about them......
From what I've seen some people come on these boards saying that nutritionists have told them?
A good discussion here on the forums trying to flesh out actual science from pseudo-woo-science is a good, healthy thing.
Let me tell you what's REALLY toxic.
The magical thinking that if you just eat the "right" way, you're safe.
You'll dodge every medical bullet.
You'll naturally be the weight you want.
Well guess what?
That's just not true. Issues of health and weight are far more complex than the internet gurus touting certain ways of eating would have you believe. And you can still get sick and you can still not lose weight even if you do everything "right".
You know when the age of magical thinking is? Childhood. It's tempting to return to the security of certainty, the trust in "true belief", but being an adult means knowing there are no guarantees in life.
This .... this belief.... this certainty... is a faith of sorts.... and it covers itself in a veneer of science with no real proof, which makes itself all the more enticing and easier to fall prey to ... and harder to separate from real fact.
So? Stay and learn and have your eyes opened, or leave and be convinced we're all bullies and learn the hard way eventually.
Faith or fact? Your choice.
We can learn a lot from children who still have magical ways of thinking. Adults who retain their child-like sense of wonder are the creatives who bring along progress in all disciplines.
There's a difference between creative thinking grounded in scientific knowledge and magical thinking that's based on hope and bolstered with dodgy "research".
Advancements are made by the former. Fear mongering is propagated by the latter.
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aqsylvester wrote: »The World Health Organization might enlighten you better than anyone here on the forum:
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2015/sugar-guideline/en/
Thanks for the link to the World Health report and all your intelligent and knowledgeable posts.
FLASH. BACKS.
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tlflag1620 wrote: »So, yes 35g of sugar = 35g of sugar. But if I get those 35g of sugar from a milky way bar, as opposed to a couple of apples, I miss out on about 7g of fiber (which would help slow the metabolization of all that sugar, meaning a lower blood-glucose spike), and end up eating about 55 more calories. To say nothing of the nutritional impact of choosing candy over fruit.
The extra calories are primarily from fat. I have done that comparison myself, between an apple and my chocolate chip cookie recipe. The apple has more sugar than the cookie, the cookie has more calories and fewer nutrients. I happen to eat the apple more often and think it's more of a staple, less of an extra than the cookie in my overall diet.
HOWEVER, to get to the point here, railing about "sugar" makes no sense when the additional calories in the cookie (or the candy you are referring to) is almost certainly in large part from fat. (The largest number of calories in my cookie recipe are from butter.)
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boopsiegrl wrote: »I have decided to give up flour and sugar foods I know that also will mean I am giving up processed food since it will be one of the culprits...Anyone out there done this and what has your weight loss success been?
Yes, I did this in September, have lost 41 pounds since then. I never craved anything I gave up and I feel great. I didn't feel sad about not eating ice cream or pizza. I didn't want the food I gave up. All of the food I eat is food I enjoy. The 2-3 times I have eaten off my plan, I didn't crave anything afterwards or go crazy and eat all the food I gave up. I think that anyone can lose weight if they eat in their calorie allotment, but this is what works for me so it is what I do.0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »One milky way bar (regular size - 2.05 oz) has 35g of sugar and 1 gram of fiber (and 245 cal).
One medium size apple (appx 182 g) has 19 g of sugar and 4 grams of fiber (and 95 cal).
So, yes 35g of sugar = 35g of sugar. But if I get those 35g of sugar from a milky way bar, as opposed to a couple of apples, I miss out on about 7g of fiber (which would help slow the metabolization of all that sugar, meaning a lower blood-glucose spike), and end up eating about 55 more calories. To say nothing of the nutritional impact of choosing candy over fruit.
Unless you are eating it straight from the Domino sack, sugar does not occur in a vacuum.
what if I have already hit my fiber for the day and eat he milky way? Does it magically go into the good category because the fiber makes the added sugar OK?
You are obviously (and luckily) not insulin resistant. So, for you it probably wouldn't much matter. So long as you hit your calorie goals and are getting adequate nutrition the rest of the day, it doesn't really matter whether you choose a milky way or a couple of apples for dessert. I'm glad for you.
For those of us who DO suffer insulin resistance, timing is EVERYTHING. I can't just have some metamucil in the morning and expect it to reduce the blood glucose spike from my dessert at night. That's not how it works. Pairing foods (eating something high in fat, protein, and/or fiber along with your high carb choice) is a great strategy. The apple already pairs fiber with sugar, making it a better choice than a milky way. Yes, I would pair something else with fiber with the milky way to try to balance it out, but then I end up consuming even more calories.
I'm not knocking sugar (or milky ways - happen to really enjoy them.... don't enjoy what they do to my blood sugar, so I don't eat them, but they are delicious). But, *most of the time* (I repeat, most of the time) foods with added sugars tend to be nutritionally weaker, higher in calories, and lacking in the satiety dept as compared to foods that only contain naturally occurring sugars. Not trying to pee in your lucky charms here. If all you are concerned with is weight loss, groovy. Then get your calories for the day from twinkies and pop.... doesn't matter to me. But if you care about health and nutrition, no having 2 apples is NOT the same as having a candy bar. And no amount of wishful thinking will make it so.
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SconnieCat wrote: »hollyrayburn wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »
Lemur, Zmusic is the troll-y type. Not sure if you got in on some of his other threads.
Now.. I'm experiencing PTSD symptoms with flashbacks involving empty spaghetti sauce jars and margaritas...
Oh God, I thought I blocked that out of my memory. It's all coming back now!
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Ok but why?
10 grams of apple sugar = 10 grams of candy bar sugar...
It is, but the apple has other benefits including the vitamins, antioxidants, water, fibre and is more satiating. the 10 grams of sugar may be the same but the rate of release of that sugar is different and thats important for someone want to control their blood sugar levels. You already know this.0
This discussion has been closed.
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