Perspective - Not all calories created equal
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mamapeach910 wrote: »You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a false presumption.
Please show me where I've stated this let alone presumed it.
Well, see, the thing is, the OP wasn't really going on with the whole a "calorie is not a calorie" (which is not true no matter what you want to say) in the way most people usually do, but you went there anyway. So I'm going with how you interpreted it.
She was just comparing the food volume of two foods of equal caloric values.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Apparently you're missing out on 30,000 calories of gluten free beer.
Blech.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a pretty safe assumption. It's not always correct, but if you make that assumption, you will (in America, at least) be right quite a more than you'll be wrong.
Eh, I'll leave the generalizations to the posters here on this board when we're discussing our eating patterns, not to the eaters of SAD. It's not fair to discuss one particular poster's diet vs. all of America.
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Love donuts. But 99.9999% of the time, they're just not worth the calories.
Even if I could still eat them, I tend to agree with you. I was spoiled for life with donuts. When I was a kid, this little old nun in the parish convent used to make donuts every Shrove Tuesday. They were beyond magnificent.
Nothing could ever surpass those, and only those would be worth the calories. The Sister who made those is long gone from the world, and I can't eat donuts any more. I'll just remember them fondly.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Apparently you're missing out on 30,000 calories of gluten free beer.
Blech.
Damn. What am I going to wash down the cardboard crusted gluten free pizza with now?
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The best doughnut, totally worth the calories. (The thing it's not worth? That I had one more than two weeks ago, and I am still craving another.)
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Your husband really needs to step up his doughnut game...Lovely looking springurrito rolls though....0
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mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a false presumption.
Please show me where I've stated this let alone presumed it.
Well, see, the thing is, the OP wasn't really going on with the whole a "calorie is not a calorie" (which is not true no matter what you want to say) in the way most people usually do, but you went there anyway. So I'm going with how you interpreted it.
I wasn't responding to the OP. I was responding to a facet of the following statement:A calorie is a calorie. Just like a inch is an inch and a centimeter is a centimeter. What material you're MEASURING may be different though.
Lots of foods offer more VOLUME and NUTRIENTS per calorie than others, but if you're going to compared 300 calories of a wrap and 300 calories of a donut, it's still 300 calories to the body in terms of energy.
And I quantified my response by stating that what ninerbuff said was true while the foodstuffs are on the plate, the practical reality out the rear end is a little different.
All the presumptions relating to my contributions are being made by others, including you.
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How many calories are you harping on? 10? 40? 50?
*facepalm*
Comparing high fibre bread to low fibre bread [1]: A difference of up to 8%. That's just one foodstuff.
I doubt anyone has commissioned a study comparing spring rolls to doughnuts.
Is 8% meaningful? What if it's only 2% daily for all dietary intake? Sure that's meaningful over the course of a day, a week, a month, a year, a lifetime.
None of this is new. USDA studies in the 80's showed a 3 and 4% difference between high and low fibre diets when it came to carbohydrate and fat digestibility. Based on the subject's [2] intake calories (~3100/day - same basic mix of C/F/P) * 365 * 3% = 33,945 calories excreted rather than metabolised. For the unwary, that's a number of pounds a month in potential weight gain simply due to differing food sources.
Meaningful?
Given the title of this thread, Perspective: Not all calories created are equal the examples provided and reference material presented and readily available indeed back up the OP's contention. Off the plate and down your gullet, not all calories are created equal. That is meaningful.
[1] High-fiber rye diet increases ileal excretion of energy and macronutrients compared with low-fiber wheat diet independent of meal frequency in ileostomy subjects, Swedish University of Agricultural Sciences, Isaksson et al
[2] Effect of Dietary Fiber on the Metabolizable Energy of Human Diets, USDA, Miles et al 1988
Wait?!
How is this first study relevant - most of us here haven't had an ilesotomy.
3-4% between high and low? I'd assume that most people fall in the middle quintiles and see then only a variance of +\- 1-2%. Insignificant. Erased by homeostasis.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Prunes for you.0 -
Read my post again. "and so on" I wrote, it's many different claims about many different things people like to mention as to what is better for weight loss, often coupled with gratuitous "a calorie is not a calorie" exclamations.stevencloser wrote: »I'd like to dispute the fact, after I looked up other such claims over other certain foods/drinks "boosting metabolism" or "taking more calories to digest than others" and so on
Please read the above. Neither I nor the studies referenced (and there are dozens more out there) make the claims you think I'm making.
We are talking about poop here.
More specifically, the amount of not fully digested and absorbed carbs and fats in the poop of those enjoying high fibre diets is higher than those who live on low fibre diets even though both consume the same base mix of carbs/fats/proteins and the same base caloric intake.
Put more simply, if it makes it out the other end undigested/unabsorbed, it's as if it wasn't there in the first place.
Bonus round: 30 - 40,000 kcal/year is a bunch of "free" beers (about 180 bottles).
Since you already posted a source: 8% of a piece of bread isn't anything to write home about, and thinking the 8% would carry over to all foods consumed is a stretch at best.
Edit after what reading what others wrote: Seems like I was exactly right and this belongs on the same pile as "protein burns more calories than carbs!" and "X will make you burn more calories!"
The "Wow, it's nothing." pile.0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »You presume that people who would eat a donut cannot also enjoy a fiber rich diet.
That's a false presumption.
Please show me where I've stated this let alone presumed it.
Well, see, the thing is, the OP wasn't really going on with the whole a "calorie is not a calorie" (which is not true no matter what you want to say) in the way most people usually do, but you went there anyway. So I'm going with how you interpreted it.
I wasn't responding to the OP. I was responding to a facet of the following statement:A calorie is a calorie. Just like a inch is an inch and a centimeter is a centimeter. What material you're MEASURING may be different though.
Lots of foods offer more VOLUME and NUTRIENTS per calorie than others, but if you're going to compared 300 calories of a wrap and 300 calories of a donut, it's still 300 calories to the body in terms of energy.
And I quantified my response by stating that what ninerbuff said was true while the foodstuffs are on the plate, the practical reality out the rear end is a little different.
All the presumptions relating to my contributions are being made by others, including you.
Except it is pragmatically incorrect to consider fiber in isolation. What happens when an increase in fiber shifts dietary macronutrients?
In a regular, non lab diet, moving from one diet to another to increase fiber might displace protein. Instead of eggs in the morning you are now consuming some nice steel rolled oats that have sat overnight. You went full koolaid without drinking the koolaid. Or you added some bran to your eggs (gross? Tell my father, he likes it with mustard).
So you eat more fiber and maybe get rid of 1-2% energy out the back door. Supah!
Well, except that if you are eating less protein you lose out on the TEF factor. Instead of 10%-15% digestion cost, you are looking at 5%. So a small decrease in protein in diet due to eating more cereal and dat dar rye bread, let's say a 10% decrease in protein ... Oh, look about 1-1.5% more energy available.
You say you didn't decrease your protein? Maybe, but most people that increase fiber tend to (see Nurse I And Nurse II and the other Harvard studies on this.).
But in reality it doesn't matter - because that small change in energy - that 1-2% change alone doesn't result in weight gain or weight loss. There is a thing called homeostasis. We observe that small changes in diet result in up regulation of NEAT, body temp, etc in such a way that weight fluctuates less than it should if our TDEE was really constant.
You gotta make bigger steps that a few percent to see change.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Prunes for you.
Oddly? They do absolutely nothing for me in that regard. Stupid thyroid. Spinach on the other hand? Winner every time.
But now that you said that, I want prunes. I'm a weirdo, I think they're delicious.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Prunes for you.
Oddly? They do absolutely nothing for me in that regard. Stupid thyroid. Spinach on the other hand? Winner every time.
But now that you said that, I want prunes. I'm a weirdo, I think they're delicious.
I prefer figs. But prunes are delicious.
Spinach smoothy for you.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Prunes for you.
Oddly? They do absolutely nothing for me in that regard. Stupid thyroid. Spinach on the other hand? Winner every time.
But now that you said that, I want prunes. I'm a weirdo, I think they're delicious.
I prefer figs. But prunes are delicious.
Spinach smoothy for you.
Does that mean I get to drink gluten free beer? Do I have to? Can it be cider instead? Something tells me I lost the plot somewhere here. The 2% thing must have confused me, it was THAT profound.
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mamapeach910 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Prunes for you.
Oddly? They do absolutely nothing for me in that regard. Stupid thyroid. Spinach on the other hand? Winner every time.
But now that you said that, I want prunes. I'm a weirdo, I think they're delicious.
I prefer figs. But prunes are delicious.
Spinach smoothy for you.
Does that mean I get to drink gluten free beer? Do I have to? Can it be cider instead? Something tells me I lost the plot somewhere here. The 2% thing must have confused me, it was THAT profound.
There was a plot?
I only saw sad donuts. In for cider, out for gluten-free anything. Just out.
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »What kind of mustard is that?
The authentic stadium mustard. really good! only 5 cals per serving.
Those spring rolls look WAY better than the donut and I like donuts
The Thai place next to work has awesome spring rolls that I get often. I should just make them myself!
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A tiny bowl of cereal or 4 eggs. Same calories but I get hungry superfast eating the cereal instead of the eggs. No fun!0
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Some people asked, here's what's in the spring roll: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/recipe/view/173479692210029 I don't know if its public or not, please let me know if you have trouble accessing.0
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EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »mamapeach910 wrote: »
I have celiac disease. I guess I'm stuck with a low fiber destiny and 2% more calories. What will I do?
Prunes for you.
Oddly? They do absolutely nothing for me in that regard. Stupid thyroid. Spinach on the other hand? Winner every time.
But now that you said that, I want prunes. I'm a weirdo, I think they're delicious.
I prefer figs. But prunes are delicious.
Spinach smoothy for you.
Does that mean I get to drink gluten free beer? Do I have to? Can it be cider instead? Something tells me I lost the plot somewhere here. The 2% thing must have confused me, it was THAT profound.
There was a plot?
I only saw sad donuts. In for cider, out for gluten-free anything. Just out.
Honestly? As someone who was diagnosed ages ago? I agree with you. Eating foods that are naturally gluten free is a far better solution to dealing with celiac disease than eating GF substitutes (with a few rare exceptions when I'm sick).
It's a conclusion I reached years ago. There's a whole world of cuisine out there based on foods that naturally have no gluten in them, including desserts.
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