Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat
Replies
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arditarose wrote: »arditarose wrote: »For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.
When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).
To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.
When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.
Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.
Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.
I just can't think of any other reason they would begin to show other than losing body fat? Maybe someone else has a rebuttal to why my process doesn't work? But I don't know....I just go with it and it seems okay.
I'm going to take my observation back though. I only notice those veins after an upper body day, or the day after. They don't look quite as big now.
The pump! It's still a gauge and an observation.1 -
arditarose wrote: »arditarose wrote: »For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.
When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).
To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.
When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.
Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.
Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.
I just can't think of any other reason they would begin to show other than losing body fat? Maybe someone else has a rebuttal to why my process doesn't work? But I don't know....I just go with it and it seems okay.
I'm going to take my observation back though. I only notice those veins after an upper body day, or the day after. They don't look quite as big now.
The pump! It's still a gauge and an observation.
True. I love it
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I'm enjoying this thread purely for the fact that it is sensible, not that I'm ready to nix my deficit anytime soon.
My question: is there really a difference between doing a recomp.... And someone who is at maintenance and exercising to challeng their fitness limitations? I see the latter as my end-goal phase... But it seems from this thread that muscle gains/body fat losses would be an eventual side effect (yay!).0 -
jojoeastcoast wrote: »I'm enjoying this thread purely for the fact that it is sensible, not that I'm ready to nix my deficit anytime soon.
My question: is there really a difference between doing a recomp.... And someone who is at maintenance and exercising to challeng their fitness limitations? I see the latter as my end-goal phase... But it seems from this thread that muscle gains/body fat losses would be an eventual side effect (yay!).
One of the posters here with prior experience did a recomp without making it his focus. His goals were fitness oriented and the body came with it. Others have physique goals, so the recomposition is a bit more purposeful.0 -
jojoeastcoast wrote: »I'm enjoying this thread purely for the fact that it is sensible, not that I'm ready to nix my deficit anytime soon.
My question: is there really a difference between doing a recomp.... And someone who is at maintenance and exercising to challeng their fitness limitations? I see the latter as my end-goal phase... But it seems from this thread that muscle gains/body fat losses would be an eventual side effect (yay!).
To me it's the same thing just with slightly different focus. Like I said, my goals have shifted away from aesthetics and more toward fitness over time, but I have always had both goals simultaneously.1 -
ILiftHeavyAcrylics wrote: »jojoeastcoast wrote: »I'm enjoying this thread purely for the fact that it is sensible, not that I'm ready to nix my deficit anytime soon.
My question: is there really a difference between doing a recomp.... And someone who is at maintenance and exercising to challeng their fitness limitations? I see the latter as my end-goal phase... But it seems from this thread that muscle gains/body fat losses would be an eventual side effect (yay!).
To me it's the same thing just with slightly different focus. Like I said, my goals have shifted away from aesthetics and more toward fitness over time, but I have always had both goals simultaneously.
The same, but in the opposite direction... now I'm more about aesthetics than fitness, although I assume the fitness part is being taken care of at the same time. They're compatible goals, not mutually exclusive. I can't see "fitness" -- changes to visible muscle are more tangible and they motivate me more.
I wouldn't be so concerned about protein intake if I wasn't interested in building more muscle.
Nor do I particularly care about BF%, other than the fact that any fat I gain at this point is probably going to attach itself where I least want it.0 -
Thanks for the responses! By cheat meal I really just meant eating quite a bit over my calorie goal for the day. I don't eat "clean," whatever that means, just try to get in adequate protein and some veggies/fruit and stay near my calorie goal. Sometimes pizza and ice cream can fit in my calories, but other days they don't and I overeat. When I go significantly over my calories for the day it is usually because of a big meal out with friends or family, which is what I call a cheat meal. Not that eating this way is cheating or bad, but I certainly can't maintain my weight if I make it a daily thing so it is labeled as an outlier.
But those that said the human body strives to maintain - so true. When I have been eating at a deficit over several days I am starving all the time. When I eat a lot, I am usually not as hungry the next couple of days. I maintained a healthy weight for years without counting calories, now I am just trying to maintain a slightly lower weight. Over thinking it, as usual.3 -
Love seeing such an informative thread on this topic! I'm 10-ish pounds away from changing my strategy and I'm leaning towards recomp which has generally seemed to be "less popular".1
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@usmcmp : I've finally had a bit of a whoosh this week and am 2-5 pounds from goal. I posted a couple of photos in my profile. Would love an opinion on if I should transition on over to re-comp at this point, or wait it out a bit longer? I can't tell. I'm definitely ready to have a little more energy to make better gains on when I lift. I'm getting exhausted earlier than I want (and to do a little less cardio). I'm only hitting 250-300 deficits on my calories, but I can honestly notice some energy difference on that. I'm drinking an extra cup of coffee a day now to make up for it, I guess.
Thanks for any input.
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Sephixteeo wrote: »@usmcmp : I've finally had a bit of a whoosh this week and am 2-5 pounds from goal. I posted a couple of photos in my profile. Would love an opinion on if I should transition on over to re-comp at this point, or wait it out a bit longer? I can't tell. I'm definitely ready to have a little more energy to make better gains on when I lift. I'm getting exhausted earlier than I want (and to do a little less cardio). I'm only hitting 250-300 deficits on my calories, but I can honestly notice some energy difference on that. I'm drinking an extra cup of coffee a day now to make up for it, I guess.
Thanks for any input.
I think you are ready. You look fairly lean already.1 -
Thank you, I will head up to that direction then. I'm really excited to put more focus on lifting. I think mentally it will be easier to be in a "long haul" frame of mind.1
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I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
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I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.0 -
I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
I browsed the first five and stoped......
1. Bad link
2. bad link
3. HMB supplementation w/resistance training
4. Related to ELITE athletes and performance
5. Creatine & Beta-Alanine supplementation
Doesn't seem to be what we are looking for.......I've spent a few hours digging through articles looking for anything...it hasn't been very productive....... :-/1 -
I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
I browsed the first five and stoped......
1. Bad link
2. bad link
3. HMB supplementation w/resistance training
4. Related to ELITE athletes and performance
5. Creatine & Beta-Alanine supplementation
Doesn't seem to be what we are looking for.......I've spent a few hours digging through articles looking for anything...it hasn't been very productive....... :-/
My fault, serves me right for posting them and assuming they were accurate. It was a cut and paste off of Armi Legge's wall discussing recomposition. When I get time I'll go through the bad links -- the copy/paste didn't work on the longer links.
I doubt any of these are going to compare steady vs staggered intake so I know these aren't along those lines but evidence of successful recomping in trained athletes would still be valuable.0 -
I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.
@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:
http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf
I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/1 -
Well after 2 months of sitting on the sidelines and reading all sorts of conversations in the community I have finally decided to post. This is mainly because I have finally found what I am looking for. I have been wondering what my next step in my journey was going to be and I think maybe its a recomp.
So my story is pretty simple. I am 41, 5'9" and my heaviest weight was about 176 just a couple months ago. I hated how I looked and felt so I decided to make a little change. I have always been active and pretty healthy, I just wanted to look better, aka lose the gut. I always went to the gym but just didn't push myself, I ski, golf, hike, camp, fly fish, love yard work and anything else outdoors. I think my main problem was just my diet and inefficient gym time. So I found this place and it was just what I needed. I had no idea how many calories I was eating.
So long story short, I lost about 10-12 pounds in about 45 days and now I am about 3-4 pounds away from my goal of 160. I went from a deficit of about 400-500 calories to a 200-300 calorie deficit about a week ago to finish off the last 3 pounds. I am thin but still have that little gut and a little around the waist. I do already have muscle showing, thanks to the fat loss and i have been doing some mild strength training. I just need to take it to the next step.
So the question is, and I think I know the answer, is a recomp going to provide me with the loss of those last few pounds as well as adding a little more muscle? I am not looking to get big, just some definition and strength. I think I am about done with the whole deficit thing because honestly I don't want to get too thin either. I just want to lose that body fat. I have no idea what my BF is but should probably get that checked. So I am thinking of eating at a maintenance level and doing some good strength training to get me to my goal. I was thinking of the stronglifts 5x5 or this workout I found online. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-routines/best-body-recomposition-workout
Any thoughts, tips, advice, etc? I think I have digested enough of all the great info you all have shared but just want to get reassurance.
Thanks
Steve2 -
LolBroScience wrote: »I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.
@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:
http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf
I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/
I'll try to get to the other links when I can --- this one shows recomp in trained athletes:
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.
@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:
http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf
I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/
I'll try to get to the other links when I can --- this one shows recomp in trained athletes:
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
Hmmm... that was a hefty protein intake. Interesting.
0 -
mamapeach910 wrote: »LolBroScience wrote: »I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.
As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056
I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.
@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:
http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf
I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/
I'll try to get to the other links when I can --- this one shows recomp in trained athletes:
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
Hmmm... that was a hefty protein intake. Interesting.
Isn't it around 1g/lb?
2g/kg0
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