Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat

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  • This content has been removed.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    edited June 2015
    I love post like these. As always @usmcmp fantastic post. I am probably going to start doing this as well based on all the crap going on in my lift and I am still starving at 2300 calories, 3000 just seems so much better.

    Also, for those ladies out there that want to work on their backs sides, StrongCurves is supposed to be another great program.
  • daniebanks
    daniebanks Posts: 179 Member
    great post
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    Hornsby wrote: »
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.

    When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).

    To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.

    When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.

    Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.

    Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
    I'm fascinated to see so many pro-bulk anti-recomp types come out in this thread – in favor of recomping.

    I mean, I'm all for this. This is good info. I guess I was expecting more vitriol. I have this one starred as a reference.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    I'm fascinated to see so many pro-bulk anti-recomp types come out in this thread – in favor of recomping.

    I mean, I'm all for this. This is good info. I guess I was expecting more vitriol. I have this one starred as a reference.

    I'm pro-bulk, in certain situations.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    I'm fascinated to see so many pro-bulk anti-recomp types come out in this thread – in favor of recomping.

    I mean, I'm all for this. This is good info. I guess I was expecting more vitriol. I have this one starred as a reference.

    I'm pro-bulk, in certain situations.

    Fair enough! The boards often deal in absolutes, which is rarely how things work.
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    I'm fascinated to see so many pro-bulk anti-recomp types come out in this thread – in favor of recomping.

    I mean, I'm all for this. This is good info. I guess I was expecting more vitriol. I have this one starred as a reference.

    I'm pro-bulk, in certain situations.

    Fair enough! The boards often deal in absolutes, which is rarely how things work.

    pro bulk or pro recomp

    pro lift some heavy *kitten* na mean
  • tomatoey
    tomatoey Posts: 5,446 Member
    Awesome thread, following along. Thanks for starting it, @usmcmp.
  • ferocityturbine
    ferocityturbine Posts: 110 Member
    Excellent thread! Tagging for all the great info
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    edited June 2015
    usmcmp wrote: »
    I'm fascinated to see so many pro-bulk anti-recomp types come out in this thread – in favor of recomping.

    I mean, I'm all for this. This is good info. I guess I was expecting more vitriol. I have this one starred as a reference.

    I'm pro-bulk, in certain situations.

    I am pro-anything healthy and sustainable that will help you achieve your goals.

  • Unknown
    edited June 2015
    This content has been removed.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.

    When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).

    To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.

    When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.

    Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.

    Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.

    I just can't think of any other reason they would begin to show other than losing body fat? Maybe someone else has a rebuttal to why my process doesn't work? But I don't know....I just go with it and it seems okay.
  • keithcw_the_first
    keithcw_the_first Posts: 382 Member
    Hornsby wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.

    When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).

    To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.

    When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.

    Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.

    Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.

    I just can't think of any other reason they would begin to show other than losing body fat? Maybe someone else has a rebuttal to why my process doesn't work? But I don't know....I just go with it and it seems okay.

    Maybe the veins are getting larger? Or being pushed to the surface by increased muscle mass? I would guess it's a combination of both vein development and fat loss, since I'm seeing increased vascularity in some areas while I can also confirm I'm gaining fat on a bulk.
  • rosehips60
    rosehips60 Posts: 1,030 Member
    following
  • PeachyPlum
    PeachyPlum Posts: 1,243 Member
    So happy to see a thread on this that's started/moderated by a source I trust!

    I'm lifting at a small deficit right now trying to drop a few BF%, but will be switching to recomp here shortly.
  • RunsOnEspresso
    RunsOnEspresso Posts: 3,218 Member
    edited June 2015
    I just decided this week that I can't, for my mental health, continue eating at a deficit. I was recently diagnosed with celiac disease and let's just say the transition has been a bit rough mentally. I decided to go into maintenance.

    I originally planned to drop 10 more pounds but I think I would rather reduce body fat.

    I struggle with getting enough protein though. I try for 100g each day and sometimes that can be so difficult. I know I need to cut out some carbs. This thread is great and can't wait to read more.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    edited June 2015
    psulemon wrote: »
    usmcmp wrote: »
    I'm fascinated to see so many pro-bulk anti-recomp types come out in this thread – in favor of recomping.

    I mean, I'm all for this. This is good info. I guess I was expecting more vitriol. I have this one starred as a reference.

    I'm pro-bulk, in certain situations.

    I am pro-anything healthy and sustainable that will help you achieve your goals.

    I agree with this and added my own thought.

    Yea, that is what I said ;) .






    ninja mod edit FTW!
  • dmt4641
    dmt4641 Posts: 409 Member
    So it seems like there were no studies showing the benefit of varied daily calories vs. consistent daily calories at maintenence, but what did those people on here with successful recomps do? Also, do you have cheat meals? Every weekend I either have dinner out at a restaurant with friends or at their house with alcoholic drinks and less control over food. I always track but end up going 200-500 over maintenance. Right now I'm at a deficit so I don't gain weight because I am in an overall deficit for the week. But if I eat at maintenance every day and have 1-2 days a week over maintenance I'm sure I will gain over time. But if I eat at deficit some days to make up for these cheat meals it doesn't seem like I would gain much muscle on recomp. Any advice?
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,426 MFP Moderator
    dmt4641 wrote: »
    So it seems like there were no studies showing the benefit of varied daily calories vs. consistent daily calories at maintenence, but what did those people on here with successful recomps do? Also, do you have cheat meals? Every weekend I either have dinner out at a restaurant with friends or at their house with alcoholic drinks and less control over food. I always track but end up going 200-500 over maintenance. Right now I'm at a deficit so I don't gain weight because I am in an overall deficit for the week. But if I eat at maintenance every day and have 1-2 days a week over maintenance I'm sure I will gain over time. But if I eat at deficit some days to make up for these cheat meals it doesn't seem like I would gain much muscle on recomp. Any advice?

    IMO, find a method that works for you and stick with it. Generally, i look at calories over the week. If I know I am going out on the weekend, I will lower calories during the week to compensate. What you might find is that your best lifting days are the day after you have a cheat meal as your glycogen stores will probably be replenished more so than when you have greater deficits. I would suggest, it's probably ideal to still meet protein goals throughout the week.

  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    dmt4641 wrote: »
    So it seems like there were no studies showing the benefit of varied daily calories vs. consistent daily calories at maintenence, but what did those people on here with successful recomps do? Also, do you have cheat meals? Every weekend I either have dinner out at a restaurant with friends or at their house with alcoholic drinks and less control over food. I always track but end up going 200-500 over maintenance. Right now I'm at a deficit so I don't gain weight because I am in an overall deficit for the week. But if I eat at maintenance every day and have 1-2 days a week over maintenance I'm sure I will gain over time. But if I eat at deficit some days to make up for these cheat meals it doesn't seem like I would gain much muscle on recomp. Any advice?

    I eat in an unusual pattern for maintenance. I did 5:2 fasting when I was losing weight and do 6:1 to maintain (that's one very low calorie day a week). But that's because it suits me for calorie adherence rather to assist with recomp.

    Cheat meals aren't in my vocabulary! I eat for enjoyment at much as nutrition - maintenance would be awful if you had to feel restricted all the time. I'm very happy to have low days, high days and it all evens out over time.

    You do realise that there's no magic switch that gets thrown just because you dip under maintenance calories? It's not like you can gain muscle at TDEE but can't at TDEE - 1.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    dmt4641 wrote: »
    So it seems like there were no studies showing the benefit of varied daily calories vs. consistent daily calories at maintenence, but what did those people on here with successful recomps do? Also, do you have cheat meals? Every weekend I either have dinner out at a restaurant with friends or at their house with alcoholic drinks and less control over food. I always track but end up going 200-500 over maintenance. Right now I'm at a deficit so I don't gain weight because I am in an overall deficit for the week. But if I eat at maintenance every day and have 1-2 days a week over maintenance I'm sure I will gain over time. But if I eat at deficit some days to make up for these cheat meals it doesn't seem like I would gain much muscle on recomp. Any advice?

    Some people eat at a flat rate. Some eat more on lifting days. Some eat more on the day before they lift. It's more about what works for you.

    I ate a bit lower through the week and ate more on the weekends. I had an important training day on Saturday and another one on Monday. Maybe I could have had better results doing it differently, but I am happy with how it worked for me.
  • ILiftHeavyAcrylics
    ILiftHeavyAcrylics Posts: 27,732 Member
    dmt4641 wrote: »
    So it seems like there were no studies showing the benefit of varied daily calories vs. consistent daily calories at maintenence, but what did those people on here with successful recomps do? Also, do you have cheat meals? Every weekend I either have dinner out at a restaurant with friends or at their house with alcoholic drinks and less control over food. I always track but end up going 200-500 over maintenance. Right now I'm at a deficit so I don't gain weight because I am in an overall deficit for the week. But if I eat at maintenance every day and have 1-2 days a week over maintenance I'm sure I will gain over time. But if I eat at deficit some days to make up for these cheat meals it doesn't seem like I would gain much muscle on recomp. Any advice?

    I started out doing a flat number of calories every day. Now I have a fitbit so I eat whatever it tells me. It helps account for the fluctuations in my activity level.

    I don't do "cheat" days, I just eat in a way that makes me happy all the time. But sometimes I do have higher calorie days due to holidays or special occasions. If it starts to get frequent I'll try to even it out with lower days but as long as it's just the normal Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthday, etc I just let those days go. I know others in maintenance intentionally eat 100 under every week day and then have the extra calories on the weekend.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    ythannah wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    dmt4641 wrote: »
    So it seems like there were no studies showing the benefit of varied daily calories vs. consistent daily calories at maintenence, but what did those people on here with successful recomps do? Also, do you have cheat meals? Every weekend I either have dinner out at a restaurant with friends or at their house with alcoholic drinks and less control over food. I always track but end up going 200-500 over maintenance. Right now I'm at a deficit so I don't gain weight because I am in an overall deficit for the week. But if I eat at maintenance every day and have 1-2 days a week over maintenance I'm sure I will gain over time. But if I eat at deficit some days to make up for these cheat meals it doesn't seem like I would gain much muscle on recomp. Any advice?

    I eat in an unusual pattern for maintenance. I did 5:2 fasting when I was losing weight and do 6:1 to maintain (that's one very low calorie day a week). But that's because it suits me for calorie adherence rather to assist with recomp.

    Cheat meals aren't in my vocabulary! I eat for enjoyment at much as nutrition - maintenance would be awful if you had to feel restricted all the time. I'm very happy to have low days, high days and it all evens out over time.

    You do realise that there's no magic switch that gets thrown just because you dip under maintenance calories? It's not like you can gain muscle at TDEE but can't at TDEE - 1.

    My experience also, on my wacky "bulk cycling" maintenance diet. I don't track to lose weight, I track to monitor protein, sodium and fiber... calorie count is just a byproduct of that for me (because you get the number anyway). Protein is really the only thing that has had any impact on my lifting progress, which is why I take it more seriously now. I can go for months without hopping on the scale.

    Okay, a few pics that hopefully show some recomp progress on a middle-aged, low BF%, low LBM female. Sorry for the crappy lighting and quality.

    Time frame on the stomach pics is Aug/14 to May/15. And, no, I hadn't lost that much flesh off my abdomen, that pair of pants was too big to begin with and just got ridiculous so I took the pic as a joke -- then noticed the faintest little six-pack (you might have to squint to see it).

    Time frame on the arm is only a few months, during which I'd made more effort to hit higher protein consumption and added some specific accessory work. They're both the right arm, one is a mirror selfie.

    AhdHYXH.jpg

    Gf8OmLw.jpg

    lktnYBX.jpg

    USTogmq.jpg

    Wish I could say I went fro Tush of Mush to Buns of Steel, but I haven't quite achieved that yet. :D

    Definite improvements! There are now some very nice muscles and visible abs showing!
  • ythannah
    ythannah Posts: 4,371 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    ythannah wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    dmt4641 wrote: »
    So it seems like there were no studies showing the benefit of varied daily calories vs. consistent daily calories at maintenence, but what did those people on here with successful recomps do? Also, do you have cheat meals? Every weekend I either have dinner out at a restaurant with friends or at their house with alcoholic drinks and less control over food. I always track but end up going 200-500 over maintenance. Right now I'm at a deficit so I don't gain weight because I am in an overall deficit for the week. But if I eat at maintenance every day and have 1-2 days a week over maintenance I'm sure I will gain over time. But if I eat at deficit some days to make up for these cheat meals it doesn't seem like I would gain much muscle on recomp. Any advice?

    I eat in an unusual pattern for maintenance. I did 5:2 fasting when I was losing weight and do 6:1 to maintain (that's one very low calorie day a week). But that's because it suits me for calorie adherence rather to assist with recomp.

    Cheat meals aren't in my vocabulary! I eat for enjoyment at much as nutrition - maintenance would be awful if you had to feel restricted all the time. I'm very happy to have low days, high days and it all evens out over time.

    You do realise that there's no magic switch that gets thrown just because you dip under maintenance calories? It's not like you can gain muscle at TDEE but can't at TDEE - 1.

    My experience also, on my wacky "bulk cycling" maintenance diet. I don't track to lose weight, I track to monitor protein, sodium and fiber... calorie count is just a byproduct of that for me (because you get the number anyway). Protein is really the only thing that has had any impact on my lifting progress, which is why I take it more seriously now. I can go for months without hopping on the scale.

    Okay, a few pics that hopefully show some recomp progress on a middle-aged, low BF%, low LBM female. Sorry for the crappy lighting and quality.

    Time frame on the stomach pics is Aug/14 to May/15. And, no, I hadn't lost that much flesh off my abdomen, that pair of pants was too big to begin with and just got ridiculous so I took the pic as a joke -- then noticed the faintest little six-pack (you might have to squint to see it).

    Time frame on the arm is only a few months, during which I'd made more effort to hit higher protein consumption and added some specific accessory work. They're both the right arm, one is a mirror selfie.

    AhdHYXH.jpg

    Gf8OmLw.jpg

    lktnYBX.jpg

    USTogmq.jpg

    Wish I could say I went fro Tush of Mush to Buns of Steel, but I haven't quite achieved that yet. :D

    Definite improvements! There are now some very nice muscles and visible abs showing!

    Thank you!

    It's funny how our perceptions change. 30 years ago I weighed a bit less, had a very physically active job, and put on a similar amount of muscle. I didn't much care for the look, thought I was kind of stringy/ropey looking.

    Now, after 30 years at a desk job? I'm hoping that I look "shredded" rather than merely scrawny. Lol.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    Hornsby wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.

    When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).

    To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.

    When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.

    Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.

    Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.

    I just can't think of any other reason they would begin to show other than losing body fat? Maybe someone else has a rebuttal to why my process doesn't work? But I don't know....I just go with it and it seems okay.

    I'm going to take my observation back though. I only notice those veins after an upper body day, or the day after. They don't look quite as big now.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    arditarose wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.

    When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).

    To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.

    When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.

    Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.

    Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.

    I just can't think of any other reason they would begin to show other than losing body fat? Maybe someone else has a rebuttal to why my process doesn't work? But I don't know....I just go with it and it seems okay.

    I'm going to take my observation back though. I only notice those veins after an upper body day, or the day after. They don't look quite as big now.

    The pump! It's still a gauge and an observation.
  • arditarose
    arditarose Posts: 15,573 Member
    usmcmp wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    arditarose wrote: »
    Hornsby wrote: »
    jacksonpt wrote: »
    For those of you have have done significant recomps... can you talk a bit about progress over time? Specifically things like how you evaluated your progress, when you saw changes in how clothes fit, when you saw changes in how you looked in the mirror, etc.

    When bulking or cutting, once you get past the initial learning curve phase, progress is fairly easy to track/see. That's not as much the case with recomping, and that can be a challenge mentally/emotionally for many. It might be good for people to see others' experiences with this so they have some context for what to expect (or not to expect).

    To be 100% honest, I track through the veins. The more veins that show, the leaner I am getting. I think that's correct as I am not sure why else they would show. I am pretty vascular to begin with.

    When I first started recomping, I had 0 veins showing anywhere. First the under forearms came, then the outer forearms and calves. Then the biceps and shoulder and thighs. Next stop...abs. That combine with measurements kinda told me what is happening. It can be a bit of a mind f*** though when the scale doesn't move all that much.

    Okay...so this is interesting. I know I'm not very lean but I'm starting to see some veins I have not seen before. Mostly around my lower abdomen/bikini area and forearms.

    Anyway, I've only been at it for 4-6 weeks and have obviously not much to show. My biggest struggle right now is trying to eat as much as possible without gaining.

    I just can't think of any other reason they would begin to show other than losing body fat? Maybe someone else has a rebuttal to why my process doesn't work? But I don't know....I just go with it and it seems okay.

    I'm going to take my observation back though. I only notice those veins after an upper body day, or the day after. They don't look quite as big now.

    The pump! It's still a gauge and an observation.

    True. I love it :)