Recomposition: Maintaining weight while losing fat

I'm enjoying this thread purely for the fact that it is sensible, not that I'm ready to nix my deficit anytime soon.

My question: is there really a difference between doing a recomp.... And someone who is at maintenance and exercising to challeng their fitness limitations? I see the latter as my end-goal phase... But it seems from this thread that muscle gains/body fat losses would be an eventual side effect (yay!).

jojoeastcoast wrote: »

I'm enjoying this thread purely for the fact that it is sensible, not that I'm ready to nix my deficit anytime soon.

My question: is there really a difference between doing a recomp.... And someone who is at maintenance and exercising to challeng their fitness limitations? I see the latter as my end-goal phase... But it seems from this thread that muscle gains/body fat losses would be an eventual side effect (yay!).

To me it's the same thing just with slightly different focus. Like I said, my goals have shifted away from aesthetics and more toward fitness over time, but I have always had both goals simultaneously.

Thanks for the responses! By cheat meal I really just meant eating quite a bit over my calorie goal for the day. I don't eat "clean," whatever that means, just try to get in adequate protein and some veggies/fruit and stay near my calorie goal. Sometimes pizza and ice cream can fit in my calories, but other days they don't and I overeat. When I go significantly over my calories for the day it is usually because of a big meal out with friends or family, which is what I call a cheat meal. Not that eating this way is cheating or bad, but I certainly can't maintain my weight if I make it a daily thing so it is labeled as an outlier.

But those that said the human body strives to maintain - so true. When I have been eating at a deficit over several days I am starving all the time. When I eat a lot, I am usually not as hungry the next couple of days. I maintained a healthy weight for years without counting calories, now I am just trying to maintain a slightly lower weight. Over thinking it, as usual.

@usmcmp : I've finally had a bit of a whoosh this week and am 2-5 pounds from goal. I posted a couple of photos in my profile. Would love an opinion on if I should transition on over to re-comp at this point, or wait it out a bit longer? I can't tell. I'm definitely ready to have a little more energy to make better gains on when I lift. I'm getting exhausted earlier than I want (and to do a little less cardio). I'm only hitting 250-300 deficits on my calories, but I can honestly notice some energy difference on that. I'm drinking an extra cup of coffee a day now to make up for it, I guess.
Thanks for any input.

Thank you, I will head up to that direction then. I'm really excited to put more focus on lifting. I think mentally it will be easier to be in a "long haul" frame of mind.

jmule24 wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.

As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056

I browsed the first five and stoped......

1. Bad link
2. bad link
3. HMB supplementation w/resistance training
4. Related to ELITE athletes and performance
5. Creatine & Beta-Alanine supplementation


Doesn't seem to be what we are looking for.......I've spent a few hours digging through articles looking for anything...it hasn't been very productive....... :-/

My fault, serves me right for posting them and assuming they were accurate. It was a cut and paste off of Armi Legge's wall discussing recomposition. When I get time I'll go through the bad links -- the copy/paste didn't work on the longer links.

I doubt any of these are going to compare steady vs staggered intake so I know these aren't along those lines but evidence of successful recomping in trained athletes would still be valuable.

Well after 2 months of sitting on the sidelines and reading all sorts of conversations in the community I have finally decided to post. This is mainly because I have finally found what I am looking for. I have been wondering what my next step in my journey was going to be and I think maybe its a recomp.

So my story is pretty simple. I am 41, 5'9" and my heaviest weight was about 176 just a couple months ago. I hated how I looked and felt so I decided to make a little change. I have always been active and pretty healthy, I just wanted to look better, aka lose the gut. I always went to the gym but just didn't push myself, I ski, golf, hike, camp, fly fish, love yard work and anything else outdoors. I think my main problem was just my diet and inefficient gym time. So I found this place and it was just what I needed. I had no idea how many calories I was eating.

So long story short, I lost about 10-12 pounds in about 45 days and now I am about 3-4 pounds away from my goal of 160. I went from a deficit of about 400-500 calories to a 200-300 calorie deficit about a week ago to finish off the last 3 pounds. I am thin but still have that little gut and a little around the waist. I do already have muscle showing, thanks to the fat loss and i have been doing some mild strength training. I just need to take it to the next step.

So the question is, and I think I know the answer, is a recomp going to provide me with the loss of those last few pounds as well as adding a little more muscle? I am not looking to get big, just some definition and strength. I think I am about done with the whole deficit thing because honestly I don't want to get too thin either. I just want to lose that body fat. I have no idea what my BF is but should probably get that checked. So I am thinking of eating at a maintenance level and doing some good strength training to get me to my goal. I was thinking of the stronglifts 5x5 or this workout I found online. http://www.muscleandfitness.com/workouts/workout-routines/best-body-recomposition-workout
Any thoughts, tips, advice, etc? I think I have digested enough of all the great info you all have shared but just want to get reassurance.
Thanks
Steve

SideSteel wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.

As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056

I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.

@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:

http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf

I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/

I'll try to get to the other links when I can --- this one shows recomp in trained athletes:
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf

Hmmm... that was a hefty protein intake. Interesting.

LolBroScience wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.

As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056

I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.

@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:

http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf

I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/

I'll try to get to the other links when I can --- this one shows recomp in trained athletes:
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf

Hmmm... that was a hefty protein intake. Interesting.

Isn't it around 1g/lb?

2g/kg

Yeah, it's just a hair higher than the current recommendations making the rounds. It's the recommendation I often see being "debunked" as unnecessarily high, but the numbers on that study for both muscle gain and fat loss were enough to give me pause.

mamapeach910 wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.

As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056

I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.

@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:

http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf

I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/

I'll try to get to the other links when I can --- this one shows recomp in trained athletes:
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf

Hmmm... that was a hefty protein intake. Interesting.

Isn't it around 1g/lb?

2g/kg

Yeah, it's just a hair higher than the current recommendations making the rounds. It's the recommendation I often see being "debunked" as unnecessarily high, but the numbers on that study for both muscle gain and fat loss were enough to give me pause.

It's 2007, the more recent ones are within like that last two years. Even so, the small amount of difference in additional protein probably isn't a bad thing. I mean, for me it comes out to a 20g difference roughly.

mamapeach910 wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

mamapeach910 wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

LolBroScience wrote: »

usmcmp wrote: »

SideSteel wrote: »

I have yet to dig into these studies but these are (apparently) examples of body recomposition taking place in a trained population which calls into question the typical claim that concurrent fat loss and muscle gain can only take place in obese beginners or athletes returning after a long layoff.

As mentioned I haven't checked these out yet -- these came from a facebook convo on the topic.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7339218
http://journals.lww.com/.../a_series_of_studies_the...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10978853
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17136944
http://journals.lww.com/.../Effects_of___Alanine...
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02640411003645695
http://www.tandfonline.com/.../10.1080/02640411003645695...
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/23538431
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3182156 (protein balance)
http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21362056

I'm pretty sure some of those are in the natural bodybuilding recommendations write up that Alan Aragon and Eric Helms were part of.

@SideSteel @usmcmp That 4th link is one we've discussed before done on the Norwegian Olympic Athletes:

http://www.humankinetics.com/acucustom/sitename/Documents/DocumentItem/02-Garthe_J3212 IJSNEM_2010_0037 97-104.pdf

I think Lyle mentioned this on his site recently:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/size-of-deficit-and-muscle-catabolism-qa.html/

I'll try to get to the other links when I can --- this one shows recomp in trained athletes:
http://www.jssm.org/vol6/n1/11/v6n1-11pdf.pdf

Hmmm... that was a hefty protein intake. Interesting.

Isn't it around 1g/lb?

2g/kg

Yeah, it's just a hair higher than the current recommendations making the rounds. It's the recommendation I often see being "debunked" as unnecessarily high, but the numbers on that study for both muscle gain and fat loss were enough to give me pause.

I've always followed the 1.6g - 1.8g/kg of total body weight (kg)

The graph below shows the change in my body composition since Jan 12, 2013. I dropped ~25lbs while roughly maintaining my lean body mass. I realize I'm not super lean (14-17% fat) but I look OK with my shirt off, and actually increased my strength levels during the period.

I followed the following principles:
1) Calorie deficit no greater than 500/day.
2) Lift heavy 4 times a week. Upper body on Mondays and Thursdays. Lower body on Tuesdays and Fridays.
3) Protein target 1.6g/kg (0.7g/lb) of body weight. I achieve slightly higher than this at 147 g/day.

P.S. I'm 62 years old.

@leahgoldgirl you look great!

@arditarose Thank you!