CI/CO vs Clean Eating
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TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »The answer is no, no they will not.
If someone eats healthily all day long, meets their macro- and micro-nutrient goals for the day, and lives an active and healthy lifestyle, a bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies at the end of the day is going to have zero effect on health or performance.
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt -I think it's pretty awesome you know how food affects every single person in this world. By the way, not everyone can just have one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies. There is reason why some people need to eat "super clean", just like alcoholics can't have a sip and drug users can't just have one hit/line/etc.slideaway1 wrote: »On a personal level I agree with this. I physically feel different (usually the day after) between getting my Carb Source from something like a sweet potato (Complex Carb) and veg, to eating Pizza the night before. Some people might not be as sensitive to this though.
This. I agree that some people might not be as sensitive to this but I think those people are far and few. On the other hand, I have realized the higher quality of food someone eats, the more their body rejects lower quality foods. It's like their body doesn't want to tolerate lower quality foods and only wants the good stuff.
That's not what I said.
Also, if someone can't have just one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies, then their problem is with the ability to moderate their intake. That is something that they need to learn to do, and cutting those foods out completely forever is likely not going to teach them anything. Are we really expected to go the rest of our lives without eating another piece of birthday cake? Without eating out at a restaurant with friends or on a date? That's just not realistic.
I guarantee you that anyone (barring a medical reason that requires them to avoid any particular food/ingredient) who is healthy, active, and who eats mostly nutrient-dense foods is not going to have any negative effects from having something sweet or some "junk" food evrery now and then. You don't get extra credit for eating nothing but "clean" foods 100% of the time.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »The answer is no, no they will not.
If someone eats healthily all day long, meets their macro- and micro-nutrient goals for the day, and lives an active and healthy lifestyle, a bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies at the end of the day is going to have zero effect on health or performance.
@Alyssa_Is_LosingIt -I think it's pretty awesome you know how food affects every single person in this world. By the way, not everyone can just have one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies. There is reason why some people need to eat "super clean", just like alcoholics can't have a sip and drug users can't just have one hit/line/etc.slideaway1 wrote: »On a personal level I agree with this. I physically feel different (usually the day after) between getting my Carb Source from something like a sweet potato (Complex Carb) and veg, to eating Pizza the night before. Some people might not be as sensitive to this though.
This. I agree that some people might not be as sensitive to this but I think those people are far and few. On the other hand, I have realized the higher quality of food someone eats, the more their body rejects lower quality foods. It's like their body doesn't want to tolerate lower quality foods and only wants the good stuff.
"I think it's pretty awesome you know how food affects every single person in this world"-TrailBlazinMN
Lol well played
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The ideal diet is to watch your intake of calories and limit the sugar, carbs, etc. that those calories comprise.
I see very often on these boards, however, that so long as people are going by the Calories In/Calories Out rule, you can really eat whatever you want.
If you are exercising and following a CI/CO with deficit, how does *what* you eat change your results?
So, if I was netting 1,300 calories a day, but everything I ate did not fall under a "Clean" diet, would my weight suffer? My body composition? Inviting anyone with experience, insight, or science to help explain.
Here's two questions that might help you find your answer:
1- Can you meet your body's needs for vitamins, minerals, and energy without eating exclusively "clean" foods?
2- Do you become "even more healthy" by eating even more vitamins and minerals than your body needs? (Or to phrase it more simply, does your body need more than it needs?)0 -
Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »That's not what I said.
Also, if someone can't have just one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies, then their problem is with the ability to moderate their intake. That is something that they need to learn to do, and cutting those foods out completely forever is likely not going to teach them anything. Are we really expected to go the rest of our lives without eating another piece of birthday cake? Without eating out at a restaurant with friends or on a date? That's just not realistic.
I guarantee you that anyone (barring a medical reason that requires them to avoid any particular food/ingredient) who is healthy, active, and who eats mostly nutrient-dense foods is not going to have any negative effects from having something sweet or some "junk" food evrery now and then. You don't get extra credit for eating nothing but "clean" foods 100% of the time.
You are right. Some people do have that problem with moderation whether it's "dirty" food or a sip of beer. That piece of cake or that sip of beer can set off a chain reaction and people go spiraling downward. There is nothing wrong with eating cake for a lot of people but for other people, it can cause them to binge.
You are right that people don't get extra credit for eating 100% "clean" foods but some people realize, like I said before, one little treat turns into a bingefest. Maybe not you but there are people out there who have an eating disorder.
Bottom line is people should do what they want. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with people who want to eat 100% clean (whether it's for a month, a year, or their whole life) and see how far they can take their body, mind, and performance. It's all a big experiment. I just go by my own experiments and testimonies of people who are open-minded and like to see how controllable variables (such as diet) can affect their recovery, heart rate at certain intensities, etc.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »That's not what I said.
Also, if someone can't have just one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies, then their problem is with the ability to moderate their intake. That is something that they need to learn to do, and cutting those foods out completely forever is likely not going to teach them anything. Are we really expected to go the rest of our lives without eating another piece of birthday cake? Without eating out at a restaurant with friends or on a date? That's just not realistic.
I guarantee you that anyone (barring a medical reason that requires them to avoid any particular food/ingredient) who is healthy, active, and who eats mostly nutrient-dense foods is not going to have any negative effects from having something sweet or some "junk" food evrery now and then. You don't get extra credit for eating nothing but "clean" foods 100% of the time.
You are right. Some people do have that problem with moderation whether it's "dirty" food or a sip of beer. That piece of cake or that sip of beer can set off a chain reaction and people go spiraling downward. There is nothing wrong with eating cake for a lot of people but for other people, it can cause them to binge.
You are right that people don't get extra credit for eating 100% "clean" foods but some people realize, like I said before, one little treat turns into a bingefest. Maybe not you but there are people out there who have an eating disorder.
Bottom line is people should do what they want. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with people who want to eat 100% clean (whether it's for a month, a year, or their whole life) and see how far they can take their body, mind, and performance. It's all a big experiment. I just go by my own experiments and testimonies of people who are open-minded and like to see how controllable variables (such as diet) can affect their recovery, heart rate at certain intensities, etc.
I completely agree mate.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »That's not what I said.
Also, if someone can't have just one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies, then their problem is with the ability to moderate their intake. That is something that they need to learn to do, and cutting those foods out completely forever is likely not going to teach them anything. Are we really expected to go the rest of our lives without eating another piece of birthday cake? Without eating out at a restaurant with friends or on a date? That's just not realistic.
I guarantee you that anyone (barring a medical reason that requires them to avoid any particular food/ingredient) who is healthy, active, and who eats mostly nutrient-dense foods is not going to have any negative effects from having something sweet or some "junk" food evrery now and then. You don't get extra credit for eating nothing but "clean" foods 100% of the time.
You are right. Some people do have that problem with moderation whether it's "dirty" food or a sip of beer. That piece of cake or that sip of beer can set off a chain reaction and people go spiraling downward. There is nothing wrong with eating cake for a lot of people but for other people, it can cause them to binge.
You are right that people don't get extra credit for eating 100% "clean" foods but some people realize, like I said before, one little treat turns into a bingefest. Maybe not you but there are people out there who have an eating disorder.
Bottom line is people should do what they want. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with people who want to eat 100% clean (whether it's for a month, a year, or their whole life) and see how far they can take their body, mind, and performance. It's all a big experiment. I just go by my own experiments and testimonies of people who are open-minded and like to see how controllable variables (such as diet) can affect their recovery, heart rate at certain intensities, etc.
I am not arguing that people shouldn't do what they want. If someone never wants to pick up a cookie again because of their issues with binging, that doesn't affect me at all whatsoever.
The only problem that I have is when that same person comes into a thread such as this one and argues that because he/she has issues with binging or whatever, that eating "clean" is somehow better than, say, eating "clean" 80% of the time, meeting macro/micro nutrient goals, and using the other 20% for fun foods. That person who is arguing that everyone would do better to cut out treats/"junk" completely is projecting his/her issues with those foods onto everyone, which is frowned upon here.
Someone who eats "junk" food in moderation is not less healthy than someone who subsists on 100% organic, grass-fed, sweetly-coddled-from-birth-till-harvest foods, and anyone who comes in here to argue otherwise is flat-out wrong.
*Notice I use a lot of quotation marks because I don't consider any food to be clean/dirty/good/bad/junk/treats - it's all just food. It's all made up of protein/fat/carbs and our body uses it no matter if it came out of a box or out of someone's backyard.0 -
When one eats only certain foods, and then switches their diet to include other foods, their body generally reacts badly to this change. You're just taking a biased view of this bigger phenomenon. Sorry but it doesn't support your worldview.TrailBlazinMN wrote: »This. I agree that some people might not be as sensitive to this but I think those people are far and few. On the other hand, I have realized the higher quality of food someone eats, the more their body rejects lower quality foods. It's like their body doesn't want to tolerate lower quality foods and only wants the good stuff.
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TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »That's not what I said.
Also, if someone can't have just one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies, then their problem is with the ability to moderate their intake. That is something that they need to learn to do, and cutting those foods out completely forever is likely not going to teach them anything. Are we really expected to go the rest of our lives without eating another piece of birthday cake? Without eating out at a restaurant with friends or on a date? That's just not realistic.
I guarantee you that anyone (barring a medical reason that requires them to avoid any particular food/ingredient) who is healthy, active, and who eats mostly nutrient-dense foods is not going to have any negative effects from having something sweet or some "junk" food evrery now and then. You don't get extra credit for eating nothing but "clean" foods 100% of the time.
You are right. Some people do have that problem with moderation whether it's "dirty" food or a sip of beer. That piece of cake or that sip of beer can set off a chain reaction and people go spiraling downward. There is nothing wrong with eating cake for a lot of people but for other people, it can cause them to binge.
You are right that people don't get extra credit for eating 100% "clean" foods but some people realize, like I said before, one little treat turns into a bingefest. Maybe not you but there are people out there who have an eating disorder.
Bottom line is people should do what they want. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with people who want to eat 100% clean (whether it's for a month, a year, or their whole life) and see how far they can take their body, mind, and performance. It's all a big experiment. I just go by my own experiments and testimonies of people who are open-minded and like to see how controllable variables (such as diet) can affect their recovery, heart rate at certain intensities, etc.
Someone disagreeing with you about food preferences does not make them close-minded. You mention that for some people, a piece of cake can set off a chain reaction and cause them to binge. For others, eating a 100% clean diet is too restrictive for them and can cause them to binge on the foods that are forbidden.
You keep saying that people should do what they want, but then you follow-up with a comment implying that the people who eat the way you eat are superior in some way. What's wrong with just encouraging people to find a diet that works for them, their lifestyle, and their resources (finances, availability) while allowing them to hit their macro and micro needs? I don't understand the need to make a character judgement about an individual based on their food choices.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »That's not what I said.
Also, if someone can't have just one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies, then their problem is with the ability to moderate their intake. That is something that they need to learn to do, and cutting those foods out completely forever is likely not going to teach them anything. Are we really expected to go the rest of our lives without eating another piece of birthday cake? Without eating out at a restaurant with friends or on a date? That's just not realistic.
I guarantee you that anyone (barring a medical reason that requires them to avoid any particular food/ingredient) who is healthy, active, and who eats mostly nutrient-dense foods is not going to have any negative effects from having something sweet or some "junk" food evrery now and then. You don't get extra credit for eating nothing but "clean" foods 100% of the time.
You are right. Some people do have that problem with moderation whether it's "dirty" food or a sip of beer. That piece of cake or that sip of beer can set off a chain reaction and people go spiraling downward. There is nothing wrong with eating cake for a lot of people but for other people, it can cause them to binge.
You are right that people don't get extra credit for eating 100% "clean" foods but some people realize, like I said before, one little treat turns into a bingefest. Maybe not you but there are people out there who have an eating disorder.
Bottom line is people should do what they want. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with people who want to eat 100% clean (whether it's for a month, a year, or their whole life) and see how far they can take their body, mind, and performance. It's all a big experiment. I just go by my own experiments and testimonies of people who are open-minded and like to see how controllable variables (such as diet) can affect their recovery, heart rate at certain intensities, etc.
Someone disagreeing with you about food preferences does not make them close-minded. You mention that for some people, a piece of cake can set off a chain reaction and cause them to binge. For others, eating a 100% clean diet is too restrictive for them and can cause them to binge on the foods that are forbidden.
You keep saying that people should do what they want, but then you follow-up with a comment implying that the people who eat the way you eat are superior in some way. What's wrong with just encouraging people to find a diet that works for them, their lifestyle, and their resources (finances, availability) while allowing them to hit their macro and micro needs? I don't understand the need to make a character judgement about an individual based on their food choices.
I think it's because the original poster showed more than a basic knowledge of diet/nutrition. CICO is definatly the way to go for loosing weight. and IIFYM is certainly the best option to make it easier. This is exactly what I follow and have done for years. It's easy, it works and you get to eat whatever you want in moderation. However, after a few years of making this realisation you might start asking more from yourself. How can I improve mood? How can I feel less bloated? How can I double my performance in the gym the next day. Not just "I've found the secret to loosing weight and it's surprisingly easy". By listening to how your body responds to different food (I used the example of how my energy is better after consuming complex carbs over Pizza etc) you can then train harder. Therefore the source of the macronutrient can become important to the individual.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »That's not what I said.
Also, if someone can't have just one bowl of ice cream or a couple of cookies, then their problem is with the ability to moderate their intake. That is something that they need to learn to do, and cutting those foods out completely forever is likely not going to teach them anything. Are we really expected to go the rest of our lives without eating another piece of birthday cake? Without eating out at a restaurant with friends or on a date? That's just not realistic.
I guarantee you that anyone (barring a medical reason that requires them to avoid any particular food/ingredient) who is healthy, active, and who eats mostly nutrient-dense foods is not going to have any negative effects from having something sweet or some "junk" food evrery now and then. You don't get extra credit for eating nothing but "clean" foods 100% of the time.
You are right. Some people do have that problem with moderation whether it's "dirty" food or a sip of beer. That piece of cake or that sip of beer can set off a chain reaction and people go spiraling downward. There is nothing wrong with eating cake for a lot of people but for other people, it can cause them to binge.
You are right that people don't get extra credit for eating 100% "clean" foods but some people realize, like I said before, one little treat turns into a bingefest. Maybe not you but there are people out there who have an eating disorder.
Bottom line is people should do what they want. Live and let live. There is nothing wrong with people who want to eat 100% clean (whether it's for a month, a year, or their whole life) and see how far they can take their body, mind, and performance. It's all a big experiment. I just go by my own experiments and testimonies of people who are open-minded and like to see how controllable variables (such as diet) can affect their recovery, heart rate at certain intensities, etc.
Someone disagreeing with you about food preferences does not make them close-minded. You mention that for some people, a piece of cake can set off a chain reaction and cause them to binge. For others, eating a 100% clean diet is too restrictive for them and can cause them to binge on the foods that are forbidden.
You keep saying that people should do what they want, but then you follow-up with a comment implying that the people who eat the way you eat are superior in some way. What's wrong with just encouraging people to find a diet that works for them, their lifestyle, and their resources (finances, availability) while allowing them to hit their macro and micro needs? I don't understand the need to make a character judgement about an individual based on their food choices.
Well said.0 -
TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »TrailBlazinMN wrote: »It all depends on how good you want to feel. I've eaten super clean foods (by my definition) and I feel awesome. Endless energy, no caffeine needed, feeling amazing, etc. People don't realize how good they can feel when they get rid of the foods that affect their body, mind, and attitude.
If you want, just experiment. For dinner, have a few slices of pizza and a big bowl of ice cream for dinner and see how you feel in the morning. Wait a few days and have the same foods you ate during the day when you had pizza and ice cream but instead of pizza and ice cream, eat a massive salad with your choice of protein (lean meat, beans, quinoa, etc) along with some tea and see how you feel the following morning.
Some people can get away with the whole "everything in moderation" when it comes to "junk food". Other people can't. Just like a former alcoholic can't just have a sip or a former cocaine addict can't just have one line.
So if someone eats mostly "clean" foods with some "dirty" treats thrown in here and there, then they will feel worse than someone who never has the treats?
Or are you thinking the ever-popular strawman theory that MFPers who lobby for IIFYM/flexible dieting eat nothing but doughnuts and Pop Tarts all day long with no regards to nutrition?
It's all about goals. Some people don't care too much about being and feeling the best they possibly can. They just want to lose weight. Will "dirty" treats really affect someone's performance and overall well-being? Who knows. They would have to experiment and find out.
Losing weight, no matter what your diet comprises, will always make you feel better and improve you blood work numbers. Don't believe me? Look at the Twinkies diet and all the low carb high fat diets then look at the fruitarian diet. All of them will have similar results in terms of feelings of wellness (a poor standard anyway) and blood work.
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Someone who eats mostly clean (80-90%) is going to have a diary that looks very similar to someone who enjoys treats in moderation and hits their macros. When will people stop arguing semantics?0
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The ideal diet is to watch your intake of calories and limit the sugar, carbs, etc. that those calories comprise.
I see very often on these boards, however, that so long as people are going by the Calories In/Calories Out rule, you can really eat whatever you want.
If you are exercising and following a CI/CO with deficit, how does *what* you eat change your results?
So, if I was netting 1,300 calories a day, but everything I ate did not fall under a "Clean" diet, would my weight suffer? My body composition? Inviting anyone with experience, insight, or science to help explain.
didn't read the other replies, just the OP
no, it doesn't change anything. you ONLY need to focus on THREE things (in this order):
1. calories
2. macros
3. micros
that's it!
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slideaway1 wrote: »TrailBlazinMN wrote: »Alyssa_Is_LosingIt wrote: »TrailBlazinMN wrote: »It all depends on how good you want to feel. I've eaten super clean foods (by my definition) and I feel awesome. Endless energy, no caffeine needed, feeling amazing, etc. People don't realize how good they can feel when they get rid of the foods that affect their body, mind, and attitude.
If you want, just experiment. For dinner, have a few slices of pizza and a big bowl of ice cream for dinner and see how you feel in the morning. Wait a few days and have the same foods you ate during the day when you had pizza and ice cream but instead of pizza and ice cream, eat a massive salad with your choice of protein (lean meat, beans, quinoa, etc) along with some tea and see how you feel the following morning.
Some people can get away with the whole "everything in moderation" when it comes to "junk food". Other people can't. Just like a former alcoholic can't just have a sip or a former cocaine addict can't just have one line.
So if someone eats mostly "clean" foods with some "dirty" treats thrown in here and there, then they will feel worse than someone who never has the treats?
Or are you thinking the ever-popular strawman theory that MFPers who lobby for IIFYM/flexible dieting eat nothing but doughnuts and Pop Tarts all day long with no regards to nutrition?
It's all about goals. Some people don't care too much about being and feeling the best they possibly can. They just want to lose weight. Will "dirty" treats really affect someone's performance and overall well-being? Who knows. They would have to experiment and find out.
On a personal level I agree with this. I physically feel different (usually the day after) between getting my Carb Source from something like a sweet potato (Complex Carb) and veg, to eating Pizza the night before. Some people might not be as sensitive to this though.
Yes, same for me, except I feel it the same day. I am more sensitive to high glycemic load food than a lot of the posters here.
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Let me just log my icecream and cashew nuts for dinner in honor of this thread. Only problem is I'll have to go out and buy it???0
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Someone who eats mostly clean (80-90%) is going to have a diary that looks very similar to someone who enjoys treats in moderation and hits their macros. When will people stop arguing semantics?
Yep.
:drinker:
For all the talk about "moderation" and "eat anything you want", someone moving from SAD to a consistent caloric deficit is most likely going to end up eating pretty clean.0
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