Does post workout Soreness mean you had a Killer Workout?
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It was a recent BBC health program, that conducted the test in collaboration with a university Sports science department's own findings. They basically just set out to prove that all those 'deep heat' and 'ice cold' creams and treatments did nothing to the muscles, but this was an interesting side discovery that warm or cold water served much better functionally. I've definitely seen the benefits!workout_freak89 wrote: »dizzieblondeuk wrote: »I saw a study that had volunteers using either an ice or hot bath after exercising. The degree to which both those groups had massively reduced DOMS compared to the controlled group was amazing. BTW, there was negligable difference between the effects of an ice or hot bath - so I go with the hot bath every time! It also fits with my evening routine, and the bath is the first part of my nighttime wind down. I sleep really well after a work-out and bath too. And my muscle pain is pretty minimal. However, I'm currently nursing a bruised bottom from my first spin class! No bath can unbruise that, so I'm suffering a bit!
thanks for this..i have read a couple of articles like these but no study...any good reference if you can provide???0 -
Good thread. I use to think it did but overtime soreness did fade and I was still making progress. I do like the feeling of soreness, I will admit. Whenever I do an exercise that I haven't done before or in a while, it seems to get me sore. 0
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I joined my local gym last week to get my fitness back after a 12yr break due to illness. I went last Monday, my first day and my fitness instructor said "no pain no gain"! He stated if your not "sore" the next day your not working hard enough? I've been 4 times this week and was very sore after the first 2 day's and a little bit sore yesterday. Today not bad at all. I can certainly feel the hard work I've done.
DOMS will kick your *kitten* when you haven't worked out for a while but it will quickly fade and if you are convinced that is what you need you will quickly be sidetracked in pursuit of the burn rather than strength or fitness.
I suggest either finding another trainer, one with a sports background or a strength training background who can put you on a real strength training program. One that tracks progress not pain.
Or just do that your self, a 5x5 program will serve you well and is as simple as it gets.
Some days you may really feel it, most days you won't. But if you judge success by DOMS you will either get discouraged and quit or abandons the program and not get the results you want.
I'm going to start doing my workouts my way. I'm not going to be told by the owner/trainer of the gym 'no pain no gain' I'm working out, exercising everyday and some day's I'm sore and other day's I"m not but I'm improving each day with noticeable result's. Thank's for your reply.
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Wow ..this is the first post I've seen from you where I am generally in agreement
But maybe you could work on your tone. Your other posts have proved you, like most of us, have rather a lot to learn, and your lecturing stance can be quite off putting in the context of some of the other highly debatable stuff you've posted as 'fact'.
But keep reading and discussing and keep learning0 -
williamwj2014 wrote: »Good thread. I use to think it did but overtime soreness did fade and I was still making progress. I do like the feeling of soreness, I will admit. Whenever I do an exercise that I haven't done before or in a while, it seems to get me sore.
It's weird how the DOMS can be totally comforting and you can almost miss it0 -
workout_freak89 wrote: »It's part of the long established "feel the burn" "love the burn" culture prevelent in the bodybuilding world. And the cardio world.
I had this EXACT mindset until recently, and I fell off the fitness wagon often because as I got fitter and stronger the DOMS got less severe and I began to feel less rewarded for my work. Funny enough every time I came back and got sore I loved it! Starting again became my favorite part of exercise, so I was never consistent enough to really get in shape.
Growing up in the 80s and 90s every source of information seemed to be selling the idea that being in shape meant severe sacrifices, and those sacrifices were glorified to the point that I think many people accepted that being fit just wasn't for them. Ultimately contributing to our obesity epidemic.
I learned early on that fitness was either hours a day at the gym pumping out tons of reps for every individual muscle or hours upon hours of cardio. Both leaving you sore and exhausted. But somehow supposedly stronger and healthier.
Even now I feel like I'm either lazy or a charlatan when I do my 5x5, or tell people that it can be done in "just an hours a day three days a week!" Like an infomercial spokesman.
But the fun part is that knowing I can maintain a really good level of fitness with that little work means I can indulge in other exercises just for fun, knowing that I don't face a lifetime of the grind just to get by. It's not just a choice between the #gymlyfe!! And being soft and weak.
try telling that to a noob filled with bro science to the brim..
you yourself realised it after going full cycle
Before it was bro science it was just the way it was.
But I think the misconceptions are what keeps many people from even trying these days.0 -
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Are you talking about me or another OP? Have I said something wrong? ThanksWow ..this is the first post I've seen from you where I am generally in agreement
But maybe you could work on your tone. Your other posts have proved you, like most of us, have rather a lot to learn, and your lecturing stance can be quite off putting in the context of some of the other highly debatable stuff you've posted as 'fact'.
But keep reading and discussing and keep learning
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workout_freak89 wrote: »MrPicklesworth wrote: »workout_freak89 wrote: »DOMS or delayed onset muscle soreness is the pain or soreness experienced typically several hours after workout
is DOMS related to how productive your workout was???
NO it' not
yet why do many people mistake the degree of post workout soreness to the efficacy of their workout??
Most common reason is instant feedback and lack of knowledge... in fact just think about it.. It even seems logical...harder the exercise more is the soreness..On top of this the bro science "i killed my legs yesterday bro! I can't even get up from my bed.... gonna get those killer quads by tomorrow!! " .another addition to the long list of fitness and health myths
unfortunately this is completely wrong and baseless as far as success of the workout depends...workouts can still be effective even if you’re not sore, because exercise is still effective after you stop getting sore from it...just because one is not experiencing the same level of post exercise soreness as when he first started out doesn't mean it's efficacy has reduced. It means that the body has adapted to the level of intensity
what about the muscle micro tear and micro trauma??
Muscle biopsy and electron microscopy shows that the reason for pain is connective tissue damage and inflammation in the area around the muscle tendon attachment where most of the sensory nerve fibers innervate. While it’s true that the method which stimulates the synthesis of new myofibrils ( components of muscle cell) owes its basis to the micro tears introduced in muscle fibers, however this process is NOT always accompanied by pain and soreness
classic case where the effect is mistaken for cause
if muscle soreness is not the indicator of success then what is??
Performance aka progressive overload
if you are lifting more weight than the previous workout then your last session was a hit. Congratulations!
Have a powerful day!!
Your explanation does not answer your question entirely. Basically all you told us was that you don't have to feel sore afterwards to have had a great workout. You didn't disprove your question of, "Does post workout Soreness mean you had a Killer Workout?" So I can still believe that being really sore after a workout means I got a killer workout, but I may still get a killer workout even if I don't feel sore afterwards.
I answered it with a NO in the first line
lifting light weights for high reps may cause soreness but no gains
Oh but it will cause 'gains' of some sort. Proper nutrition/calorie surplus is the most important part of gaining muscle mass. At the very least it will cause 'gains' in muscle endurance. I've been going to a body pump class (light weights with lots of reps) for some time now and have worked my way up in the weights I use for the class. One time this muscle bound guy from the weight room showed up to join a class. Clearly this guy had put in a lot of time lifting heavy and could definitely out lift me in the weight room. Despite the instructors cautioning him to go a little bit lighter with his weights since it was his first class he was determined to mimic the same weights I was using since I was the only other guy in class. Of course as the class went on he failed horribly and was usually dropping his bar and taking multiple breaks before we were even half way through the 5 minute tracks for each exercise. I couldn't help but chuckle within myself watching him. He hasn't returned since. So I feel like there are definitely 'gains' to be had from lighter lifting, and I still feel like soreness after your workout generally indicates that you had a great workout. I do agree with you that you don't have to be sore to have had a great workout though, as your body will adapt.
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Well said.But maybe you could work on your tone. Your other posts have proved you, like most of us, have rather a lot to learn, and your lecturing stance can be quite off putting in the context of some of the other highly debatable stuff you've posted as 'fact'.
When I was twenty I knew everything there was to know.
When I turned thirty I realized that I didn't know anything about anything.
At forty it dawned on me that my parents had offered up good advice over the years that I had dismissed.
Turning fifty brought the understanding that I still have a lot to learn.
Life is funny that way.0 -
Incorrect. Fat burning happens most with a calorie deficit and at rest (since it's the primary source of energy). Any physical activity will first use glycogen before even touching any fat stores. One doesn't need to do any cardio at all, and can do it by weight lifting alone if calorie deficit is good enough.workout_freak89 wrote: »add cardio and interval training alternately to them keeping atleast one day ( sunday ) for rest
reason- fat burning occurs more by cardio and interval training than weight lifting
Cardio is for cardio vascular health and helps to burn more calories to either create a higher calorie deficit, or give some room to eat more calories if a calorie deficit it high enough.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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workout_freak89 wrote: »I was merely being polite in the above post...While I do not claim to know everything, i do know almost everything there is to know which will directly or indirectly affect my results in a major fashion.I don't bother much about the minor details that have little or no signifance as far as performance or results of my training and nutrition are concerned.
Also, the reason why people seem to get offended by my "tone" is because my confidence sometimes gets mistaken as arrogance...however almost every fact that i quote is reference based and backed up by research.For the things that I do not quote , it is mostly out of laziness of lack of time
"I know what i know...If i do not know it's because there is no need to know"
The key there is in your first paragraph : it affects YOUR results. My thought is that you tend to over generalize what is working for you into a plan that would work for everyone.0 -
workout_freak89 wrote: »I was merely being polite in the above post...While I do not claim to know everything, i do know almost everything there is to know which will directly or indirectly affect my results in a major fashion.I don't bother much about the minor details that have little or no signifance as far as performance or results of my training and nutrition are concerned.
Also, the reason why people seem to get offended by my "tone" is because my confidence sometimes gets mistaken as arrogance...however almost every fact that i quote is reference based and backed up by research.For the things that I do not quote , it is mostly out of laziness of lack of time
"I know what i know...If i do not know it's because there is no need to know"
But dude...you've posted a lot of what was, in my opinion, rubbish too sad phrased it as though it's gospel and everyone should listen to you.
So you don't really know "almost everything" for everyone, just what has worked / not harmed you (n=1)
I have yet to see you back up any of your assertions with any valid sources ...you should do that ...it gives you some credibility at least
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workout_freak89 wrote: »workout_freak89 wrote: »I was merely being polite in the above post...While I do not claim to know everything, i do know almost everything there is to know which will directly or indirectly affect my results in a major fashion.I don't bother much about the minor details that have little or no signifance as far as performance or results of my training and nutrition are concerned.
Also, the reason why people seem to get offended by my "tone" is because my confidence sometimes gets mistaken as arrogance...however almost every fact that i quote is reference based and backed up by research.For the things that I do not quote , it is mostly out of laziness of lack of time
"I know what i know...If i do not know it's because there is no need to know"
But dude...you've posted a lot of what was, in my opinion, rubbish too sad phrased it as though it's gospel and everyone should listen to you.
So you don't really know "almost everything" for everyone, just what has worked / not harmed you (n=1)
I have yet to see you back up any of your assertions with any valid sources ...you should do that ...it gives you some credibility at least
please be a little specific...tell me about what according to you was incorrect ...part of the post / the whole post/ the tone of the post or everything in general?
more convenient if you would actually quote the lines (unless the post has been already taken down lol)
Well on the one yesterday
The thing you said about pre-workout nutrition being crucial amongst others
I can't remember the other parts I felt were personal choice I'm afraid0 -
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Lol0
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workout_freak89 wrote: »workout_freak89 wrote: »workout_freak89 wrote: »I was merely being polite in the above post...While I do not claim to know everything, i do know almost everything there is to know which will directly or indirectly affect my results in a major fashion.I don't bother much about the minor details that have little or no signifance as far as performance or results of my training and nutrition are concerned.
Also, the reason why people seem to get offended by my "tone" is because my confidence sometimes gets mistaken as arrogance...however almost every fact that i quote is reference based and backed up by research.For the things that I do not quote , it is mostly out of laziness of lack of time
"I know what i know...If i do not know it's because there is no need to know"
But dude...you've posted a lot of what was, in my opinion, rubbish too sad phrased it as though it's gospel and everyone should listen to you.
So you don't really know "almost everything" for everyone, just what has worked / not harmed you (n=1)
I have yet to see you back up any of your assertions with any valid sources ...you should do that ...it gives you some credibility at least
please be a little specific...tell me about what according to you was incorrect ...part of the post / the whole post/ the tone of the post or everything in general?
more convenient if you would actually quote the lines (unless the post has been already taken down lol)
Well on the one yesterday
The thing you said about pre-workout nutrition being crucial amongst others
I can't remember the other parts I felt were personal choice I'm afraid
read this
http://www.jissn.com/content/10/1/53
OK ...that meta-analyses actually refutes your claim that the timing or protein consumption has any importance
Yet you are quoting it as corroboration for your assertion
I'm joining Isaac in a small LOL there0 -
IsaackGMOON wrote: »Lol
YOU, I like!0 -
workout_freak89 wrote: »now what makes (1) to be preferentially happening over (2) is A MUSCLE STIMULUS aka WEIGHT TRAINING
conversely , in a deficit, the energy from fat will be used to replenish the muscle glycogen stores
so again...where am i wrong???
I believe a more correct description would be "any physical activity that gets energy consumption above a critical threshold, one example of which is weight training".
Because the "preference" also happens for cardio activity above the same threshold.
And "interval training" only out-burns steady state cardio under very specific apples-to-oranges conditions. If someone is interested in maximizing calorie burn from exercise, low intensity cardio is where it's at, because it can be done for long periods of time and has minimal recovery requirements.0 -
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TL;DR They could demonstrate a relationship with the level of protein intake - they couldn't establish a relationship with the timing of protein intake.
What this means is that IF timing matters, it is a minor factor. Which in turn means that its irrelevant for 99.99999% of MFPers.0
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