Squats--1/2 way down or butt to ground? See pic
Replies
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"Basically you want to squat until you cannot go down any further."
No I do not.0 -
Wait - why did I post in a month old thread?
*cone of shame*0 -
in my experience, it is also dependent on how heavy one is going. When I squat lighter I can hit below parallel no problem; however, as I go up in weight I am at parallel or a tad below....
When I go heavy I go parallel or a bit below and when I go light I go as low as I can for more reps. I just bought drop shoes too and tried them out today with my quad workout. I felt I could go deeper with the flatter shoes. I adore doing squats.0 -
I really wanna build my gluttes , but I am kind of new to gym. So, I probably make a lot of mistakes , but i will try this
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My advice? Pick a squat type (low bar or high bar) that you can do with good form given your particular anthropomorphy and goals.
Then consistently improve it and add load to it whilst striving to maintain good form.
Changing your squat style based on a single training article when you're not having problems with your existing set-up (or one's that can be fixed with minor tweaks) is nuts.
As above, but with the bold part that I added. Obviously your body shape and mechanics are critical, but so are what you are trying to achieve.
The weightlifter is going to go much deeper than the powerlifter, who will most likely be deeper than the sprinter. Who knows what the bodybuilder is doing, probably somewhere over there on the leg press machine!
Point being, whilst you laugh at that guy doing quarter squats, he may be a sprinter and this is the optimal way for him to train. Why would the powerlifter bother going below parallel if that's all they need to get a white light? Why would the weightlifter squat in anyway that doesn't allow an upright torso, which he needs for carry over to his lift? The bodybuilder and bikini girl don't care that you are laughing at their squats, because their glutes and hams look better than yours.
Train in a way that is efficient for your goal, body type and avoids injury. If someone else is doing something different, it's not a zero sum game - you can both be right (or wrong!).
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My advice? Pick a squat type (low bar or high bar) that you can do with good form given your particular anthropomorphy and goals.
Then consistently improve it and add load to it whilst striving to maintain good form.
Changing your squat style based on a single training article when you're not having problems with your existing set-up (or one's that can be fixed with minor tweaks) is nuts.
As above, but with the bold part that I added. Obviously your body shape and mechanics are critical, but so are what you are trying to achieve.
The weightlifter is going to go much deeper than the powerlifter, who will most likely be deeper than the sprinter. Who knows what the bodybuilder is doing, probably somewhere over there on the leg press machine!
Point being, whilst you laugh at that guy doing quarter squats, he may be a sprinter and this is the optimal way for him to train. Why would the powerlifter bother going below parallel if that's all they need to get a white light? Why would the weightlifter squat in anyway that doesn't allow an upright torso, which he needs for carry over to his lift? The bodybuilder and bikini girl don't care that you are laughing at their squats, because their glutes and hams look better than yours.
Train in a way that is efficient for your goal, body type and avoids injury. If someone else is doing something different, it's not a zero sum game - you can both be right (or wrong!).
This is really a good answer. Much of it is definitely goal dependent and movement dependent. Some folks may not be able to hit certain depth based on sheer mechanics. There is definitely too much of an "absolutist" thought process on MFP about training and much of it is unfounded.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »My advice? Pick a squat type (low bar or high bar) that you can do with good form given your particular anthropomorphy and goals.
Then consistently improve it and add load to it whilst striving to maintain good form.
Changing your squat style based on a single training article when you're not having problems with your existing set-up (or one's that can be fixed with minor tweaks) is nuts.
As above, but with the bold part that I added. Obviously your body shape and mechanics are critical, but so are what you are trying to achieve.
The weightlifter is going to go much deeper than the powerlifter, who will most likely be deeper than the sprinter. Who knows what the bodybuilder is doing, probably somewhere over there on the leg press machine!
Point being, whilst you laugh at that guy doing quarter squats, he may be a sprinter and this is the optimal way for him to train. Why would the powerlifter bother going below parallel if that's all they need to get a white light? Why would the weightlifter squat in anyway that doesn't allow an upright torso, which he needs for carry over to his lift? The bodybuilder and bikini girl don't care that you are laughing at their squats, because their glutes and hams look better than yours.
Train in a way that is efficient for your goal, body type and avoids injury. If someone else is doing something different, it's not a zero sum game - you can both be right (or wrong!).
This is really a good answer. Much of it is definitely goal dependent and movement dependent. Some folks may not be able to hit certain depth based on sheer mechanics. There is definitely too much of an "absolutist" thought process on MFP about training and much of it is unfounded.
So is parallel best for targeting glutes and hams? OMG tell me please my flat butt needs to know
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I was reading an article from a body building site. I want to work on my booty. It said this about about squats: I perform SQUATS- real squats, the ideal depth being *kitten* TO GROUND or below parallel. Basically you want to squat until you cannot go down any further. The depth you are able to achieve may be limited to some extent by flexibility or physical handicap but always fight to get as low of a position as possible. This is crucial because as well as hitting your quads, it’s going to develop strength in your glutes and hamstrings. This glute/hamstring development is shorted big time if you squat to parallel or above.
This could put strain on your knees possibly and I don't think you would want to try it until you knew you had good form in regular squats. oh, and if you used to much weight it would be very difficult to get back up.
Also, I could never do that even when I was much thinner and younger. I just don't have the flexibility/ coordination. I couldn't even do it without weights. I had a home birth and it was recommended by some that you try to give birth in that position because gravity will help things along and I just could not achieve that position even in practice.0 -
What's with the fancy name? It's not even a squat! Why not just call it a lunge with a box?
I prefer straightforward names for exercises and straightforward exercises. 0 -
What's with the fancy name? It's not even a squat! Why not just call it a lunge with a box? I prefer straightforward names for exercises and straightforward exercises.
Because your leg is in a fixed position, so you're not "lunging".
Split Squat - http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBSingleLegSplitSquat.html
Lunge - http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Quadriceps/BBLunge.html0 -
I go just below parallel but I can't go all the way down. I've tried it and my knees crunch. creeps me out!0
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Best video on the topic ever!TFaustino67 wrote: »Try that again:
I know, it was quite fascinating. I wondered why I couldn't do full squats! I always felt like I would fall on my butt if I went lower than halfway!0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Karen_libert wrote: »I do a life of both. I keep a parallel squat for my heavy day and go light doing atg with a thruster. My ultimate aim is to do Olympic lifts so I'm working on the flexibility in my hips but my shoulders are not playing ball.
As long as you bring your booty back and round and you're fully engaged they're both working for you
That's a good goal. If your goal is Oly lifting though, you should focus on the Front Squat more than anything.
I would say that focusing on the front squat more than anything is not good advice for an amateur lifter. The back squat allows more weight to be used. More weight will get you stronger faster. All other things equal, a stronger oly lifter will have better lifts than a weaker oly lifter. Now, I'm not saying don't do and get good at front squats, because you'll have to, just don't make them the priority right away. Get stronger first.0 -
Oh c'mon - I'm just managing just past parallel and now there's a frickin' sumo style one
go away
LOL This! I don't have the flexability yet for A2G (I'm hoping calesthenics might help that), however, I do Sumo squats parallel. I had read somewhere that the furthar apart your legs are, the more the inner things are being worked.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »My advice? Pick a squat type (low bar or high bar) that you can do with good form given your particular anthropomorphy and goals.
Then consistently improve it and add load to it whilst striving to maintain good form.
Changing your squat style based on a single training article when you're not having problems with your existing set-up (or one's that can be fixed with minor tweaks) is nuts.
As above, but with the bold part that I added. Obviously your body shape and mechanics are critical, but so are what you are trying to achieve.
The weightlifter is going to go much deeper than the powerlifter, who will most likely be deeper than the sprinter. Who knows what the bodybuilder is doing, probably somewhere over there on the leg press machine!
Point being, whilst you laugh at that guy doing quarter squats, he may be a sprinter and this is the optimal way for him to train. Why would the powerlifter bother going below parallel if that's all they need to get a white light? Why would the weightlifter squat in anyway that doesn't allow an upright torso, which he needs for carry over to his lift? The bodybuilder and bikini girl don't care that you are laughing at their squats, because their glutes and hams look better than yours.
Train in a way that is efficient for your goal, body type and avoids injury. If someone else is doing something different, it's not a zero sum game - you can both be right (or wrong!).
This is really a good answer. Much of it is definitely goal dependent and movement dependent. Some folks may not be able to hit certain depth based on sheer mechanics. There is definitely too much of an "absolutist" thought process on MFP about training and much of it is unfounded.
So is parallel best for targeting glutes and hams? OMG tell me please my flat butt needs to know
I'll talk out both sides of mouth for this one... LOL!
If you can comfortably manage parallel then yes I would suggest squatting to parallel. For some people it's not a mechanics issue but a mobility issue, so make sure you're doing some mobility work as well. The hamstrings are eccentrically loaded on the descent and your glutes play a large roll in in the concentric phase (ascent) of the squat. There are EMG studies that indicate that the deeper you go the more glute activation. The reason being is that on the way down your Hip Flexors are flexing and the deeper you go, the more flexion is occurring. Now your glutes manage hip extension (hamstring do an extent as well), so the deeper your hips are flexed, the more engaged your glutes will become in returning your hips to a fully extended position; essentially standing straight-up.
Now some of the same EMG studies indicate that the squat is not the best exercise for hamstring development. The hamstrings have a big role in the squat so they are definitely activated, but the squat is not the best. If glute and hamstring development is important to you, then you should find a mix of Squatting, probably RDL's or SLDL's, perhaps some Step-ups, Back Raises, maybe even some Leg Curls. May not need to do all and perhaps not in the same session but definitely more than just Squats.
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NightShiftMedic wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Karen_libert wrote: »I do a life of both. I keep a parallel squat for my heavy day and go light doing atg with a thruster. My ultimate aim is to do Olympic lifts so I'm working on the flexibility in my hips but my shoulders are not playing ball.
As long as you bring your booty back and round and you're fully engaged they're both working for you
That's a good goal. If your goal is Oly lifting though, you should focus on the Front Squat more than anything.
I would say that focusing on the front squat more than anything is not good advice for an amateur lifter. The back squat allows more weight to be used. More weight will get you stronger faster. All other things equal, a stronger oly lifter will have better lifts than a weaker oly lifter. Now, I'm not saying don't do and get good at front squats, because you'll have to, just don't make them the priority right away. Get stronger first.
Front Squat is more specific to Oly Lifting though0 -
As above, but with the bold part that I added. Obviously your body shape and mechanics are critical, but so are what you are trying to achieve.
The weightlifter is going to go much deeper than the powerlifter, who will most likely be deeper than the sprinter. Who knows what the bodybuilder is doing, probably somewhere over there on the leg press machine!
Point being, whilst you laugh at that guy doing quarter squats, he may be a sprinter and this is the optimal way for him to train. Why would the powerlifter bother going below parallel if that's all they need to get a white light? Why would the weightlifter squat in anyway that doesn't allow an upright torso, which he needs for carry over to his lift? The bodybuilder and bikini girl don't care that you are laughing at their squats, because their glutes and hams look better than yours.
Train in a way that is efficient for your goal, body type and avoids injury. If someone else is doing something different, it's not a zero sum game - you can both be right (or wrong!).
I can't say I agree with the bolded part. This implies that strength training is sport specific. Most things I've read have lead me to believe that while conditioning is sport specific, strength is not. I.e. if you're a sprinter, get strong across the full range of motion (squats to just below parallel) and then actually sprint to improve your sprinting.0 -
boogiewookie wrote: »I go just below parallel but I can't go all the way down. I've tried it and my knees crunch. creeps me out!
You should be just fine then. Your hip crease just needs to get below your knee crease, no more.0 -
NightShiftMedic wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Karen_libert wrote: »I do a life of both. I keep a parallel squat for my heavy day and go light doing atg with a thruster. My ultimate aim is to do Olympic lifts so I'm working on the flexibility in my hips but my shoulders are not playing ball.
As long as you bring your booty back and round and you're fully engaged they're both working for you
That's a good goal. If your goal is Oly lifting though, you should focus on the Front Squat more than anything.
I would say that focusing on the front squat more than anything is not good advice for an amateur lifter. The back squat allows more weight to be used. More weight will get you stronger faster. All other things equal, a stronger oly lifter will have better lifts than a weaker oly lifter. Now, I'm not saying don't do and get good at front squats, because you'll have to, just don't make them the priority right away. Get stronger first.
Re-read my comment. My comment was specific to Olympic Lifting. Olympic Lifters train the Front Squat specifically, and the high-bar to an extent, because that range of motion and the way the bar is loaded is part of the range of motion of the CLean and Jerk and the Clean, so it is an important lift in the training of an Oly Lifter. For your casual lifter and definitely not for a team sport athlete, I would tend to go with the Back Squat. I was listening to an interview of a profession group that trains team sport athletes and they indicated they would rather have an athlete train the Step-Up than the front squat because of how the posterior is loaded.0 -
I did read your comment quite thoroughly, and just re-read it, and I stand by my own. My views come from an old-ish article from the late Bill Starr. I'll see if I can find the link to it. We may have to respectfully agree to disagree on this one.
Edit: Found it here: "They Don't Award Form Points in Olympic Weightlifting" by Bill Starr.
(Edited for typos and added the link)0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »My advice? Pick a squat type (low bar or high bar) that you can do with good form given your particular anthropomorphy and goals.
Then consistently improve it and add load to it whilst striving to maintain good form.
Changing your squat style based on a single training article when you're not having problems with your existing set-up (or one's that can be fixed with minor tweaks) is nuts.
As above, but with the bold part that I added. Obviously your body shape and mechanics are critical, but so are what you are trying to achieve.
The weightlifter is going to go much deeper than the powerlifter, who will most likely be deeper than the sprinter. Who knows what the bodybuilder is doing, probably somewhere over there on the leg press machine!
Point being, whilst you laugh at that guy doing quarter squats, he may be a sprinter and this is the optimal way for him to train. Why would the powerlifter bother going below parallel if that's all they need to get a white light? Why would the weightlifter squat in anyway that doesn't allow an upright torso, which he needs for carry over to his lift? The bodybuilder and bikini girl don't care that you are laughing at their squats, because their glutes and hams look better than yours.
Train in a way that is efficient for your goal, body type and avoids injury. If someone else is doing something different, it's not a zero sum game - you can both be right (or wrong!).
This is really a good answer. Much of it is definitely goal dependent and movement dependent. Some folks may not be able to hit certain depth based on sheer mechanics. There is definitely too much of an "absolutist" thought process on MFP about training and much of it is unfounded.
So is parallel best for targeting glutes and hams? OMG tell me please my flat butt needs to know
I'll talk out both sides of mouth for this one... LOL!
If you can comfortably manage parallel then yes I would suggest squatting to parallel. For some people it's not a mechanics issue but a mobility issue, so make sure you're doing some mobility work as well. The hamstrings are eccentrically loaded on the descent and your glutes play a large roll in in the concentric phase (ascent) of the squat. There are EMG studies that indicate that the deeper you go the more glute activation. The reason being is that on the way down your Hip Flexors are flexing and the deeper you go, the more flexion is occurring. Now your glutes manage hip extension (hamstring do an extent as well), so the deeper your hips are flexed, the more engaged your glutes will become in returning your hips to a fully extended position; essentially standing straight-up.
Now some of the same EMG studies indicate that the squat is not the best exercise for hamstring development. The hamstrings have a big role in the squat so they are definitely activated, but the squat is not the best. If glute and hamstring development is important to you, then you should find a mix of Squatting, probably RDL's or SLDL's, perhaps some Step-ups, Back Raises, maybe even some Leg Curls. May not need to do all and perhaps not in the same session but definitely more than just Squats.
Thanks!! I have been working for a while now on that mobility, doing my 'hovers' (just frog-squatting with hands on the ground and feet as flat as I can get them), and I am getting reliably below parallel now, but this is with workout-video weights (2x10lb dumbbells). I've been working on them for so long just to get below parallel so I can finally take it to the gym and start lifting. I think it was about a year ago I asked why I couldn't squat and you and/or ninerbuff I think told me to stretch those Achilles tendons, which was great advice. It's helped with a lot of the 'random' aches and pains I used to have, as well as with my posture. I may never get my butt to the floor but I'm definitely way closer than I ever thought I would be.
No worries on the DLs, I'll be doing plenty of those. Right now (with the light dumbbells) I do single-leg ones.
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I should say, Sam_I_Am77, that I'm in no way calling into question your expertise or qualifications, only attempting to provide food for thought. You definitely have more experience than I do, so my apologies if I offended.0
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i have a big butt.. no way im getting it to the ground!
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NightShiftMedic wrote: »I should say, Sam_I_Am77, that I'm in no way calling into question your expertise or qualifications, only attempting to provide food for thought. You definitely have more experience than I do, so my apologies if I offended.
No not at all, I appreciate an intelligent conversation. My only point in the comment was in regard to building strength in the muscles that are actively recruited during Oly Lifting, not really form. We all know form goes to *kitten* when max effort attempts are performed. Interesting conversation in that article, definitely too many form and technique Nazi's in the lifting world. Outside of that, I see no point in Front Squatting. Unfortunately it's something that's received attention because of it's popularity in CrossFit.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »NightShiftMedic wrote: »I should say, Sam_I_Am77, that I'm in no way calling into question your expertise or qualifications, only attempting to provide food for thought. You definitely have more experience than I do, so my apologies if I offended.
No not at all, I appreciate an intelligent conversation. My only point in the comment was in regard to building strength in the muscles that are actively recruited during Oly Lifting, not really form. We all know form goes to *kitten* when max effort attempts are performed. Interesting conversation in that article, definitely too many form and technique Nazi's in the lifting world. Outside of that, I see no point in Front Squatting. Unfortunately it's something that's received attention because of it's popularity in CrossFit.
I love it when we can all get along!0 -
I front squat and only rarely do back squats. Back squats are super uncomfortable for me. Front squats are not. I get what I need from front squatting so that's what I'm sticking with.0
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I front squat and only rarely do back squats. Back squats are super uncomfortable for me. Front squats are not. I get what I need from front squatting so that's what I'm sticking with.
And that's good no problem with that at all, if all you can do is Front Squat then do it; though I would suggest finding why it's so uncomfortable. Maybe it's just a form issue or maybe there's something else going on.
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I was reading an article from a body building site. I want to work on my booty. It said this about about squats: I perform SQUATS- real squats, the ideal depth being *kitten* TO GROUND or below parallel. Basically you want to squat until you cannot go down any further. The depth you are able to achieve may be limited to some extent by flexibility or physical handicap but always fight to get as low of a position as possible. This is crucial because as well as hitting your quads, it’s going to develop strength in your glutes and hamstrings. This glute/hamstring development is shorted big time if you squat to parallel or above.
This could put strain on your knees possibly and I don't think you would want to try it until you knew you had good form in regular squats. oh, and if you used to much weight it would be very difficult to get back up.
Also, I could never do that even when I was much thinner and younger. I just don't have the flexibility/ coordination. I couldn't even do it without weights. I had a home birth and it was recommended by some that you try to give birth in that position because gravity will help things along and I just could not achieve that position even in practice.
I actually found that doing half squats or to parallel puts WAAAAAY more stress on my knees. I also have lyme arthritis in my knees and hips and I found that stopping myself part way through my natural range of motion is puts more strain on my joints than following all the way through to ATG. That is my mobility though. I just don't like this myth that doing full range of motion is somehow bad for your joints. Its not.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »I front squat and only rarely do back squats. Back squats are super uncomfortable for me. Front squats are not. I get what I need from front squatting so that's what I'm sticking with.
And that's good no problem with that at all, if all you can do is Front Squat then do it; though I would suggest finding why it's so uncomfortable. Maybe it's just a form issue or maybe there's something else going on.
It is a femur issue for me. I'm not sure if uncomfortable was the right word to use but, regardless, front squats are a better match for me and I'm okay with that.0 -
If you chose to front squat exclusively (and if you're not a PL, you could) then you could get plenty strong. Balance it out with decent posterior chain work and I don't see a problem.
No one (unless it is part of their sport) needs to do any lift.0
This discussion has been closed.
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