Matt Lauer proving why no-sugar does't work
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Changing a palate does take some time. It isn't just learning what other things you like. It's also getting used to different tastes.
When I cut the salt, everthing tasted horrid. I kept going back to the salt because I had so much trouble adjusting. It took a long time to find new ways to make food taste good, but it took even longer to appreciate them.
Same deal with sweets. Same deal with everything. You have to find something else you like and give it time.
Tastes can be changed, though.
You can eventually get yourself to where you like fruit as much as you used to like candy. If you want to do it and you put in some effort, it can happen.
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She even mentioned a nice glass of wine!Kimberly_Harper wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »You can survive without eating carbs just like you can lose weight eating only Twinkies. Why does this matter? Neither is particularly healthy or something I'd advise. Most people will do much better eating, you know, vegetables, as well as many other foods with carbs in them.
As for the actual ratio, I think that depends on personal preference, specific health issues, goals, etc.spacequiztime wrote: »http://www.today.com/health/how-many-calories-pound-3-things-about-calories-you-may-t33986
I think this is the segment about calorie counting.
Yep - Today's segment in that series made me think of half of the forum "debates" I've seen on here. The nutritionist says as long as you eat less calories than you burn, you'll lose weight but "not all calories are equal" and encouraged people to use most of their calories on more nutrient-dense foods even though you will still lose weight by just staying under that calorie goal. When Honest Matt asked if you can eat anything you want as long as it is within those calories, she responded with yes but do you want to just lose weight or do you want to lose weight and have energy...
I think that both the "eat in moderation" and "restrict certain foods" camps can agree on that.
Yup. Glad to see the follow up for calorie counting was so level headed.
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maillemaker wrote: »3 Oreos is one serving, and 1/2 cup of ice cream is one serving. The mind set of moderation is learning to understand that when you eat something, you have one serving of it, and enjoy it. Would you rather have that one serving of it, or have none at all? I don't see what's wrong with having 3 cookies.
Usually, none at all. 3 cookies I'm just getting warmed up to the taste of cookies. It's too easy for 3 cookies to turn into 6. Typically if I "fit in" a treat, it's at the expense of a meal. Or I just go over on my calories for the day.It's also easier to practice moderation and work treats in when people have a moderate calorie deficit as opposed to an very high deficit. Although that's a topic that has been previously argued with you before to death, so I'm just going to leave it there.
I'm sure it is. But then you have to balance that lower deficit with less spectacular weight loss results, and for me anyway, it's the results that make the suffering worthwhile. Lackluster results and you start wondering why you are bothering with the suffering.That's a stupid saying because it's only applicable if all you care about is the next 5 minutes. It's not reasonable for the vast majority of people to expect to be able to avoid temptation for the rest of your life.
Or perhaps just the next 5 weeks or 5 months until you gain some confidence and stamina in controlling what you eat.In the long term it is easier to learn how to deal with these situations and "resistance" becomes much easier, and leads to a better quality of life.
Of course. But not everyone can do that right out of the blocks.Add to that the fact that "making the easy choice and only being concerned with about right now" is why a great many people are on MFP trying to lose a bunch of weight, and it's just plain silly to offer this short-sighted saying as a solution to the very problem it created.
If it works, it's not silly.
And you're still losing? Have you made it to goal weight successfully and maintained? Because you seem self-assured for someone who is still struggling with the journey.
Wow.
What is it with you? You're taking cheap, personal shots at people all over the boards, many of them working their butts off to succeed.
Are you trying to prove that getting to goal weight doesn't improve people's personalities?
If that's the case....mission accomplished.
Mr. Knight, thank you for standing up for others. [applause]0 -
Kimberly_Harper wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »You can survive without eating carbs just like you can lose weight eating only Twinkies. Why does this matter? Neither is particularly healthy or something I'd advise. Most people will do much better eating, you know, vegetables, as well as many other foods with carbs in them.
As for the actual ratio, I think that depends on personal preference, specific health issues, goals, etc.spacequiztime wrote: »http://www.today.com/health/how-many-calories-pound-3-things-about-calories-you-may-t33986
I think this is the segment about calorie counting.
Yep - Today's segment in that series made me think of half of the forum "debates" I've seen on here. The nutritionist says as long as you eat less calories than you burn, you'll lose weight but "not all calories are equal" and encouraged people to use most of their calories on more nutrient-dense foods even though you will still lose weight by just staying under that calorie goal. When Honest Matt asked if you can eat anything you want as long as it is within those calories, she responded with yes but do you want to just lose weight or do you want to lose weight and have energy...
I think that both the "eat in moderation" and "restrict certain foods" camps can agree on that.
I think about 90% of this site believes that. Than someone comes in and says something about a diet of all pizza or doughnuts and the floodgate opens.0 -
Changing a palate does take some time. It isn't just learning what other things you like. It's also getting used to different tastes.
When I cut the salt, everthing tasted horrid. I kept going back to the salt because I had so much trouble adjusting. It took a long time to find new ways to make food taste good, but it took even longer to appreciate them.
Same deal with sweets. Same deal with everything. You have to find something else you like and give it time.
Tastes can be changed, though.
You can eventually get yourself to where you like fruit as much as you used to like candy. If you want to do it and you put in some effort, it can happen.
I don't know why everyone assumes that people NEED to change their palates, though.
From my unscientific survey of MFP posters, it seems to me there are a variety of different kinds of fat people. Some (those I was most familiar with before coming here, and this is me too) are foodie types, who tend to love all kinds of food. Most of us would have said we loved fruit and well-cooked veggies and loads of savory foods, including those that weren't super oily and salty. Back when I drank wine I tended to prefer dry wine (although I worked to learn to appreciate the highly-rated sweeter stuff too, and did enjoy some of them) and bitter beers, as well as bitter greens, as well as (sure, why not?) plenty of desserts too. (But I'd usually have chosen a cheese plate over most desserts, and in that I never was that into "candy" a delicious apricot or plum or some berries over candy any day). I recall reading the introduction to Jeffrey Steingarden's The Man Who Ate Everything about how he thought a food critic should get over any food aversions and taking it to heart and really working to have an open mind to anything and trying to be willing to try anything when traveling (like mopane worm, which was not really a success, but not the worst thing ever). Of course like everyone I have my foods I hate (cold cereal, Wonder bread, ketchup, and canned tuna, for example), but for the most part I prided myself on being willing to try anything at a new restaurant and not being picky at all.
Others surprised me since I would have thought it was hard to gain weight being picky, but actually the super picky seem over-represented among those who need to lose weight too, and even those who seem not to like food that much or at least not to like many, many foods (like foods I grew up on and would have considered essential, such as vegetables) and, especially, to be really uncomfortable with trying new foods.
Maybe the palate thing is an issue for the latter group, but for the former I don't think it's really an issue. I've gone without added sugar for a month and it had no effect on my palate at all. I haven't found that eating predominantly nutrient-dense foods makes me unable to appreciate some ice cream or a homemade cherry pie and, frankly, thank goodness for that. I'd be sad if that happened.0 -
I didn't say anyone needed to. I said if you want to, it can be done.lemurcat12 wrote: »Changing a palate does take some time. It isn't just learning what other things you like. It's also getting used to different tastes.
When I cut the salt, everthing tasted horrid. I kept going back to the salt because I had so much trouble adjusting. It took a long time to find new ways to make food taste good, but it took even longer to appreciate them.
Same deal with sweets. Same deal with everything. You have to find something else you like and give it time.
Tastes can be changed, though.
You can eventually get yourself to where you like fruit as much as you used to like candy. If you want to do it and you put in some effort, it can happen.
I don't know why everyone assumes that people NEED to change their palates, though.
From my unscientific survey of MFP posters, it seems to me there are a variety of different kinds of fat people. Some (those I was most familiar with before coming here, and this is me too) are foodie types, who tend to love all kinds of food. Most of us would have said we loved fruit and well-cooked veggies and loads of savory foods, including those that weren't super oily and salty. Back when I drank wine I tended to prefer dry wine (although I worked to learn to appreciate the highly-rated sweeter stuff too, and did enjoy some of them) and bitter beers, as well as bitter greens, as well as (sure, why not?) plenty of desserts too. (But I'd usually have chosen a cheese plate over most desserts). I recall reading the introduction to Jeffrey Steingarden's The Man Who Ate Everything about how he thought a food critic should get over any food aversions and taking it to heart and really working to have an open mind to anything and trying to be willing to try anything when traveling (like mopane worm, which was not really a success, but not the worst thing ever). Of course like everyone I have my foods I hate (cold cereal, Wonder bread, ketchup, and canned tuna, for example), but for the most part I prided myself on being willing to try anything at a new restaurant and not being picky at all.
Others surprised me since I would have thought it was hard to gain weight being picky, but actually the super picky seem over-represented among those who need to lose weight too, and even those who seem not to like food that much or at least not to like many, many foods (like foods I grew up on and would have considered essential, such as vegetables) and, especially, to be really uncomfortable with trying new foods.
Maybe the palate thing is an issue for the latter group, but for the former I don't think it's really an issue. I've gone without added sugar for a month and it had no effect on my palate at all. I haven't found that eating predominantly nutrient-dense foods makes me unable to appreciate some ice cream or a homemade cherry pie and, frankly, thank goodness for that. I'd be sad if that happened.
I am not trying to get anyone to eat any specific way.
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Why do you assume that people are unable to enjoy fruit or the like until they "change their palate"? The vast majority of people no doubt enjoy BOTH fruit and ice cream.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Changing a palate does take some time. It isn't just learning what other things you like. It's also getting used to different tastes.
When I cut the salt, everthing tasted horrid. I kept going back to the salt because I had so much trouble adjusting. It took a long time to find new ways to make food taste good, but it took even longer to appreciate them.
Same deal with sweets. Same deal with everything. You have to find something else you like and give it time.
Tastes can be changed, though.
You can eventually get yourself to where you like fruit as much as you used to like candy. If you want to do it and you put in some effort, it can happen.
I haven't found that eating predominantly nutrient-dense foods makes me unable to appreciate some ice cream or a homemade cherry pie and, frankly, thank goodness for that. I'd be sad if that happened.
I think it's usually the opposite. I think if someone regularly overeats sugary foods they often lose appreciation for them. It become more of a craving to satisfy than a true appreciation of the taste of the food. When they aren't eaten as often it's often easier to appreciate the taste.0 -
It still works... just don't eat the replacement foods. You aren't supposed to take away added sugar and replace it with sugar substitutes. You're supposed to replace it with water, unsweetened tea/ coffee, fruit, and veggies.
I don't add sugar to anything, or eat anything with added sugar, unless it's a special occasion (visiting parents/ friends, birthday celebrations, holidays). Even if I bake at home (rarely) I use honey, maple syrup, applesauce and dates for sweetness. Every once in a blue moon, I'll use coconut sugar. Sometimes, if I'm in a hurry, I eat a quest bar. Most days, I eat under 30-40 grams of sugar per day, none of it added. It's really not that hard.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Changing a palate does take some time. It isn't just learning what other things you like. It's also getting used to different tastes.
When I cut the salt, everthing tasted horrid. I kept going back to the salt because I had so much trouble adjusting. It took a long time to find new ways to make food taste good, but it took even longer to appreciate them.
Same deal with sweets. Same deal with everything. You have to find something else you like and give it time.
Tastes can be changed, though.
You can eventually get yourself to where you like fruit as much as you used to like candy. If you want to do it and you put in some effort, it can happen.
I haven't found that eating predominantly nutrient-dense foods makes me unable to appreciate some ice cream or a homemade cherry pie and, frankly, thank goodness for that. I'd be sad if that happened.
I think it's usually the opposite. I think if someone regularly overeats sugary foods they often lose appreciation for them. It become more of a craving to satisfy than a true appreciation of the taste of the food. When they aren't eaten as often it's often easier to appreciate the taste.
Yes, this is basically my experience.0 -
I don't assume that all people are like that. I do see many people stating that fruit isn't as good as sweets, so I know those people exist. I, personally, developed a much greater appreciation for the sweetness of fruit after I cut out its competitors.lemurcat12 wrote: »Why do you assume that people are unable to enjoy fruit or the like until they "change their palate"? The vast majority of people no doubt enjoy BOTH fruit and ice cream.
You're being a little quick with the assumptions about my assumptions.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »mantium999 wrote: »personally it is easier for me to give up sugar and use my calories for healthier options. i am not able to measure out 1/2 cup of ice cream and then leave it alone, if i eat sugar i crave more sugar. i have been eating Quest bars but i am starting to eat them too often so i don't plan on buying anymore for awhile. the last Quest bar that i ate had only 1 gram of sugar, plus 17g of fiber, and 21g of protein. i just try not to keep foods in the house that i over eat. i also try to get the most nutrition from my calories. i think you have to do what works for you and listen to your body. i admire those who can practice moderation!
This post is an example of why this debate happens. This person associates sugar as bad for them, on account of cravings. So she must avoid things like ice cream. But then proceeded to say she isn't buying any more Quest bars because she is eating them too often, despite the fact they only have 1g of sugar. It therefore seems reasonable to think that this person has a misguided fear of sugar.
No, it is completely unreasonable to think that. She clearly stated she tries to not keep foods in the house that she overeats...which is perfectly reasonable and taking personal responsibility. She mentioned sugar and ice cream. And then mentioned a low sugar item which she also avoids for the same reason...she eats too much of it. I don't know where you get the idea she is "afraid" of sugar. Perhaps you read a different post and replied to the wrong person?
No, I don't think so. It stands to reason. this person obviously is relating overeating to something else. Otherwise the nutrition information, including the sugar, wouldn't have been included.
If sugar routinely makes her overeat, she is relating sugar to overeating. She also relates Quest bars to overeating, and she has very clearly stated they do NOT have a lot of sugar. Thus, she she was pretty clear that ANY food she over eats she tried not to keep at home. She actually wrote these words..."i just try not to keep foods in the house that i over eat. "
This seems pretty simple to me.
Sugar doesn't MAKE her overeat. She chooses to overeat things that have sugar in them. Not keeping them in the house is a good choice for her.
However, she needs to learn how not to overeat. The fact that she now has a food that doesn't have a lot of sugar that she's overeating says a lot, doesn't it? when does she get to the point where she's not keeping any food in the house?
How is keeping food you overeat out of the house not a method of learning not to overeat? You can't overeat it if it's not there, right?
If your problem is so great that you can't keep any food in the house......? she's losing foods one at a time, what's next?
Maybe I missed it but I don't recall a post where someone said they couldn't keep any food in the house.
I do both...I moderate some foods...others I have eliminated. Those foods that I have eliminated I don't sit around and crave...rarely think about them. I found other foods to take their place...foods that I don't binge on.
Crackers are my weakness at present moment...I can moderate them for a day or two and then I can tell that they are becoming something that I will overeat on. So I don't buy them for a while until I am ready to try again.
I love peanut butter M&Ms...I have had one in over three years...they are a food that I would eat the whole bag in over the course of the day. I eliminated them...I don't crave them. If I brought them back in the house...I would binge eat them.
I don't consider myself a weak person because I chose to give them up. Nor do I think that I have to learn to moderate them to be successful in losing weight. If I never feel as if I can moderate them...then I am okay with giving them up.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. No one has to moderate everything. Nor do they have to eliminate everything. I tend to pick and choose my battles...some things are just not worth the battle to me...so I choose to walk away.
People need to find their own way of doing things. I certainly don't base my choices on what other do or think that I should do.
Someone giving up Quests bars because they have a tendency to eat to many might by a smart move. There are plenty of other foods out there to try and see if they might be better choices.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Why do you assume that people are unable to enjoy fruit or the like until they "change their palate"? The vast majority of people no doubt enjoy BOTH fruit and ice cream.
I think people are saying that you have to change your palate to enjoy candy LESS, and then fruit becomes to your taste buds more like a decadent dessert than a healthy snack.
My palate has changed and that in itself helps me moderate sweets. If a candy bar/ice cream/drink/dessert is too sweet for your tastes, you won't eat very much of it. I used to love Snickers bars. Now, if I have one (which is maybe once every few months), I have to share it. I still have chocolate, just less sweet varieties and in smaller amounts than before.
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CJisinShape wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Why do you assume that people are unable to enjoy fruit or the like until they "change their palate"? The vast majority of people no doubt enjoy BOTH fruit and ice cream.
I think people are saying that you have to change your palate to enjoy candy LESS, and then fruit becomes to your taste buds more like a decadent dessert than a healthy snack.
Yes, I believe this is true. If you constantly crave sweets, changing your palate is a good way to combat it. And giving up added sugar is a good way to change your palate.0 -
Giving up added sugar is easy. Added sugar brings nothing to a person's diet, it has no nutritional benefit and, most of the time, it doesn't even taste that great. Once you give up sugar, you stop finding the taste of it enjoyable. Most things taste too sweet to me now.
I do agree, however, that there is no point eating 'replacement' foods for sugar. It's better to just quit than to prolong the agony. Once you get used to less sweet food, those sugary, sickly snacks will not seem appealing at all.
Quitting added sugar was one of the best things I ever did, after quitting smoking. The thought of going back to those sickly, syrupy coffees, eww!
A great book to read on the subject of quitting sugar is Pure, White and Deadly by John Yudkin.
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LiftAllThePizzas wrote: »
You don't need fingernails either. So what? It doesn't mean we should form a no-fingernail group and use it as a launching pad to flood the forums with posts telling people they should try to live without fingernails.MoiAussi93 wrote: »You do not need carbs. At all. Zero. Now, I do eat carbs, but not because I would die if I didn't. I happen to like nuts and dairy too much to never eat carbs.
But if you wanted to it is very simple. Just east only foods with fat or protein. It's really not complicated.
Please show me where I recommended that people eat no carbs? I never did. ANd I haven't seen anyone else do it. All I did was correct a poster who insists on repeating...many times...that you NEED carbs to survive. You don't. I think it makes sense to correctly blatantly false information.0 -
maillemaker wrote: »3 Oreos is one serving, and 1/2 cup of ice cream is one serving. The mind set of moderation is learning to understand that when you eat something, you have one serving of it, and enjoy it. Would you rather have that one serving of it, or have none at all? I don't see what's wrong with having 3 cookies.
Usually, none at all. 3 cookies I'm just getting warmed up to the taste of cookies. It's too easy for 3 cookies to turn into 6. Typically if I "fit in" a treat, it's at the expense of a meal. Or I just go over on my calories for the day.It's also easier to practice moderation and work treats in when people have a moderate calorie deficit as opposed to an very high deficit. Although that's a topic that has been previously argued with you before to death, so I'm just going to leave it there.
I'm sure it is. But then you have to balance that lower deficit with less spectacular weight loss results, and for me anyway, it's the results that make the suffering worthwhile. Lackluster results and you start wondering why you are bothering with the suffering.That's a stupid saying because it's only applicable if all you care about is the next 5 minutes. It's not reasonable for the vast majority of people to expect to be able to avoid temptation for the rest of your life.
Or perhaps just the next 5 weeks or 5 months until you gain some confidence and stamina in controlling what you eat.In the long term it is easier to learn how to deal with these situations and "resistance" becomes much easier, and leads to a better quality of life.
Of course. But not everyone can do that right out of the blocks.Add to that the fact that "making the easy choice and only being concerned with about right now" is why a great many people are on MFP trying to lose a bunch of weight, and it's just plain silly to offer this short-sighted saying as a solution to the very problem it created.
If it works, it's not silly.
And you're still losing? Have you made it to goal weight successfully and maintained? Because you seem self-assured for someone who is still struggling with the journey. Do what you want, but if you're still struggling with weight loss and haven't figured it out yet, arguing with people who have successfully lost and maintained seems rather silly.
Stomp your feet and turn purple and insist you want to stay overweight, then.
That is an incredibly insulting and disrespectful post. You are basically saying somebody who is overweight has no right to an opinion. I have no tolerance for that type of behavior.0 -
I don't assume that all people are like that. I do see many people stating that fruit isn't as good as sweets, so I know those people exist. I, personally, developed a much greater appreciation for the sweetness of fruit after I cut out its competitors.lemurcat12 wrote: »Why do you assume that people are unable to enjoy fruit or the like until they "change their palate"? The vast majority of people no doubt enjoy BOTH fruit and ice cream.
You're being a little quick with the assumptions about my assumptions.
You might be right about my assumptions. I get annoyed (obviously) by the idea that fat people can't appreciate foods other than fat, salt, and sugar, as I had a perfectly decent palate even when fat, so tend to get overly sensitive in reacting to that idea when I perceive it. I apologize if I jumped too quickly. :-)0 -
CJisinShape wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Why do you assume that people are unable to enjoy fruit or the like until they "change their palate"? The vast majority of people no doubt enjoy BOTH fruit and ice cream.
I think people are saying that you have to change your palate to enjoy candy LESS, and then fruit becomes to your taste buds more like a decadent dessert than a healthy snack.
Some people might, but that's hardly universal.
I've never really liked "candy" and always loved many fruits, and that's not affected by the amount of sweets I eat.
I also could enjoy sweets (love a good apple crisp with vanilla ice cream, for example) and yet prefer coffee black (I've always hated sweetened coffee). This idea that liking some sweet things somehow biases your palate as to all things is just not necessarily true at all.
I'd be willing to bet that Matt Lauer might well enjoy some sugary foods and yet has a perfectly decent palate for lots of non sweet things.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »maillemaker wrote: »3 Oreos is one serving, and 1/2 cup of ice cream is one serving. The mind set of moderation is learning to understand that when you eat something, you have one serving of it, and enjoy it. Would you rather have that one serving of it, or have none at all? I don't see what's wrong with having 3 cookies.
Usually, none at all. 3 cookies I'm just getting warmed up to the taste of cookies. It's too easy for 3 cookies to turn into 6. Typically if I "fit in" a treat, it's at the expense of a meal. Or I just go over on my calories for the day.It's also easier to practice moderation and work treats in when people have a moderate calorie deficit as opposed to an very high deficit. Although that's a topic that has been previously argued with you before to death, so I'm just going to leave it there.
I'm sure it is. But then you have to balance that lower deficit with less spectacular weight loss results, and for me anyway, it's the results that make the suffering worthwhile. Lackluster results and you start wondering why you are bothering with the suffering.That's a stupid saying because it's only applicable if all you care about is the next 5 minutes. It's not reasonable for the vast majority of people to expect to be able to avoid temptation for the rest of your life.
Or perhaps just the next 5 weeks or 5 months until you gain some confidence and stamina in controlling what you eat.In the long term it is easier to learn how to deal with these situations and "resistance" becomes much easier, and leads to a better quality of life.
Of course. But not everyone can do that right out of the blocks.Add to that the fact that "making the easy choice and only being concerned with about right now" is why a great many people are on MFP trying to lose a bunch of weight, and it's just plain silly to offer this short-sighted saying as a solution to the very problem it created.
If it works, it's not silly.
And you're still losing? Have you made it to goal weight successfully and maintained? Because you seem self-assured for someone who is still struggling with the journey. Do what you want, but if you're still struggling with weight loss and haven't figured it out yet, arguing with people who have successfully lost and maintained seems rather silly.
Stomp your feet and turn purple and insist you want to stay overweight, then.
That is an incredibly insulting and disrespectful post. You are basically saying somebody who is overweight has no right to an opinion. I have no tolerance for that type of behavior.
I believe that if we want to learn how to succeed at this the first place that we should look is at those that have lost and maintained. However...
What we learn from them is not always applicable to ourselves. Not all successful people used the same methods. I think it is helpful to look at all of those methods.
My first time around on MFP I was successful at losing weight...until I wasn't. I lost 80lbs...gained more than half of it back before I said...it is time to get back to work. This time around is different for me though.
Before I was following the advice of many that had been successful. Problem was...I was changing methods...doing this...doing that. I stressed myself out. I just couldn't do it any longer.
This time however I am doing what works for me. Maybe many of these successful people would tell me I am doing it wrong in their opinion...oh well. All I know for the first time I truly feel that this is something that I can do even after going in to maintenance. Yes I eliminated some things...I moderated others. That works for me.
My only advice to people would be...find what works. Find a way that is healthy...makes you happy...and that you can do long term. If it ceases to work...then back up and try again.
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