Losing Weight is NOT that simple..imo..
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Replies
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danieltsmoke wrote: »If I had any advice to offer to people struggling, I'd say it's all about trial and error, which can be frustratingly slow. You gotta try something, whether its working out more, or trying to stay under a certain amount-ish of calories, and see how that goes for a few weeks. If that doesn't work, change it up, and try again. Patience has been my biggest struggle but probably my greatest ally during the last few months, and I know that once you find your groove you're gonna kick your fitness goals right in the somewhat large *kitten*. Rant over..
I 100% agree!!!! There is no special formula. It's not about fitting into a dress in 3 months. It's about making calculated changes, every single day of your life for the rest of your life.
Make "Educated guesses" on how/what/how much you should be eating and how/what/how much you should be exercising, do that for 6 weeks, if the weight is going up, scale down & do the new routine for 6 more weeks, if the weight is going down, keep doing what you're doing until the scale stops... then intensify.0 -
kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87 @3dogsrunning @Debmal77 The journey is they need more help than a simple" CICO statement.0 -
They do it all the time. I think someone did it in this thread. It's very common.ogmomma2012 wrote: »
It's not real helpful to OPs when they say they're having a hard time and a bunch of people come in to brag, "It's easy for me!"blankiefinder wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »
But you didn't ask any questions in your original post. You claimed CICO doesn't work, too hard and filled with inaccuracies.
I literally didn't claim any of those things..did you read my first post? Literally the entire purpose was to express how pointless the advice of "just eat less calories than you burn" is..like someone else pointed out, it's like telling an alcoholic "hey..just don't drink anymore"...but what it does accomplish is furthering that persons frustration but making something they find very difficult and unknown, seem like a basic math problem.
So we should stop telling people to use CICO? And let them believe it's hard? Because CICO isn't hard, what IS hard is actually making the commitment to maintaining a deficit through the method of your choice, and following through. And it's also hard for people to accept that maybe there are things they are doing wrong, that need to be corrected. It's easier to blame the culprit of your choice (fats, carbs, metabolism, starvation mode, etc) than it is to accept that the difficulty is within.
Who does that help?
I haven't seen anyone brag in the threads I have been in. Even the diet pill ones. Many more people give encouragement than just say "well I have self control so you should too" it's more like "we've been there, keep on going, make sure you're on point with your calories and the weight will drop off again" so that's a pretty big exaggeration.
Diet bragging, food bragging, twisting things around to make them things they aren't, arguing for CICO when nobody argued against it. So very common.
I think arguing for CICO only happens when someone pops in like "But you can't be healthy if you're eating pizza and twinkies all day so you can't lose weight eating junk food". Only things that I have seen are the humble-brag threads started by someone who wants attention for their personal achievements.0 -
They do it all the time. I think someone did it in this thread. It's very common.ogmomma2012 wrote: »
It's not real helpful to OPs when they say they're having a hard time and a bunch of people come in to brag, "It's easy for me!"blankiefinder wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »strong_curves wrote: »danieltsmoke wrote: »
But you didn't ask any questions in your original post. You claimed CICO doesn't work, too hard and filled with inaccuracies.
I literally didn't claim any of those things..did you read my first post? Literally the entire purpose was to express how pointless the advice of "just eat less calories than you burn" is..like someone else pointed out, it's like telling an alcoholic "hey..just don't drink anymore"...but what it does accomplish is furthering that persons frustration but making something they find very difficult and unknown, seem like a basic math problem.
So we should stop telling people to use CICO? And let them believe it's hard? Because CICO isn't hard, what IS hard is actually making the commitment to maintaining a deficit through the method of your choice, and following through. And it's also hard for people to accept that maybe there are things they are doing wrong, that need to be corrected. It's easier to blame the culprit of your choice (fats, carbs, metabolism, starvation mode, etc) than it is to accept that the difficulty is within.
Who does that help?
I haven't seen anyone brag in the threads I have been in. Even the diet pill ones. Many more people give encouragement than just say "well I have self control so you should too" it's more like "we've been there, keep on going, make sure you're on point with your calories and the weight will drop off again" so that's a pretty big exaggeration.
Diet bragging, food bragging, twisting things around to make them things they aren't, arguing for CICO when nobody argued against it. So very common.
Outside of this thread, I have never seen it (eta - the whole easy part). And to be fair, this thread was specifically about it being easy/not easy so to say whether it was easy for you or not is on topic.
I see the other things all the time too from the other side. Diet bragging, food bragging, twisting things aroudn to make them things they aren't, arguing about CICO (commonly the whole eat whatever you want for weight loss vs health thing when no one says eat whatever you want for health). So very common.0 -
"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!-2 -
Do you not see all the people agreeing that asking those seeking weight loss help to recheck their CICO is useless?
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85Cardinals wrote: »I agree with the gist of what the original poster is saying. People here are often insufferably smug with their comments and suggestions. It seems like it's politics or religion with them, and good luck arguing about that with true believers.
I know what you mean. I don't post here a whole bunch...but have come across multiple threads that people who are desperate for help and on the verge of giving up started, and all these food and calorie know-it-alls come back with arrogant one liners such as "abs are made in the kitchen!" "Buy a food scale you're obviously logging incorrectly" "cico" and my all time favorite "eat less move more". Lucky for me these things have come very easy to my personal quest, but I feel a more delicate hand can be executed in trying to help these poor people not give up. We're all here fighting our own internal/external wars, and it makes me sad when people are so arrogant and condescending just because someone isn't some fitness/nutrition/calorie god(dess).
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ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.0 -
kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.0 -
kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
^^ the weight loss veteran tone.."hey just CICO" may not be meant in a patronizing manner, but to someone grasping for real, practicable advice, patronizing is how it comes off.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
^^ the weight loss veteran tone.."hey just CICO" may not be meant in a patronizing manner, but to someone grasping for real, practicable advice, patronizing is how it comes off.
Ok, so again, what real, practicable advice should people be giving?0 -
"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
More like:
I'd like to go to California to become a nursing assistant. It's so hard! I'll miss my family and have to leave my four year old here in Georgia with his DB dad. Give me directions"
The best and only answer really is the directions?? Really? And if they just ask for directions, but the typical reason most people ask has to do with similar back stories, no questions asked, just give the directions. It's the General Weight Loss HELP forum, not the "tell me only the answer to the questions I've asked, even though it could be potentially harmful or stupid" forum.0 -
"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
^^ the weight loss veteran tone.."hey just CICO" may not be meant in a patronizing manner, but to someone grasping for real, practicable advice, patronizing is how it comes off.
That's an inherent weakness of a system where the primary communication method is writing. You cannot expect to properly interpret "tone" 100% of the time. And if we were to apply your OP to this situation, just throw the baby out with the bath water - nothing useful can be learned from the forums because there can be "inaccuracy" in our ability to understand the message delivery "tone"
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It's just a general thing. I'm not going to quoting people or posting links, but the whole "California" thing happens sometimes. And the OPs aren't really helped by a lot of it, especially when people argue against things they never said, KWIM?"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
More like:
I'd like to go to California to become a nursing assistant. It's so hard! I'll miss my family and have to leave my four year old here in Georgia with his DB dad. Give me directions"
The best and only answer really is the directions?? Really? And if they just ask for directions, but the typical reason most people ask has to do with similar back stories, no questions asked, just give the directions. It's the General Weight Loss HELP forum, not the "tell me only the answer to the questions I've asked, even though it could be potentially harmful or stupid" forum.
You don't have to actually help people by listening to their problem and assisting, if you don't want to, but I think you might be able to see that not all of the "help" is helpful.
Just some food for thought.
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kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.0 -
BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.
It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.0 -
Yes, it can. It can apply to all kinds of things. It's a pretty general thing.3dogsrunning wrote: »"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.
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BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
When we had good stickies, "Read the stickies" was DAMN good advice. Topics like Calorie Counting 101 and So you want a nice stomach continue to receive bumps from people thankful to the clear explanations and follow up answers (by the OP in a lot of cases!) provided in those topics. The stickies were especially great for people not wanting to open their diaries or otherwise share too much about themselves. They'd just need to read the posts and from there they could figure what they were doing wrong, get tips from other users, etc
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1296011/calorie-counting-101/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1161603/so-you-want-a-nice-stomach/p1
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