Losing Weight is NOT that simple..imo..
Replies
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danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
^^ the weight loss veteran tone.."hey just CICO" may not be meant in a patronizing manner, but to someone grasping for real, practicable advice, patronizing is how it comes off.
Ok, so again, what real, practicable advice should people be giving?0 -
"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
More like:
I'd like to go to California to become a nursing assistant. It's so hard! I'll miss my family and have to leave my four year old here in Georgia with his DB dad. Give me directions"
The best and only answer really is the directions?? Really? And if they just ask for directions, but the typical reason most people ask has to do with similar back stories, no questions asked, just give the directions. It's the General Weight Loss HELP forum, not the "tell me only the answer to the questions I've asked, even though it could be potentially harmful or stupid" forum.0 -
"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.0 -
danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
^^ the weight loss veteran tone.."hey just CICO" may not be meant in a patronizing manner, but to someone grasping for real, practicable advice, patronizing is how it comes off.
That's an inherent weakness of a system where the primary communication method is writing. You cannot expect to properly interpret "tone" 100% of the time. And if we were to apply your OP to this situation, just throw the baby out with the bath water - nothing useful can be learned from the forums because there can be "inaccuracy" in our ability to understand the message delivery "tone"
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It's just a general thing. I'm not going to quoting people or posting links, but the whole "California" thing happens sometimes. And the OPs aren't really helped by a lot of it, especially when people argue against things they never said, KWIM?"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
More like:
I'd like to go to California to become a nursing assistant. It's so hard! I'll miss my family and have to leave my four year old here in Georgia with his DB dad. Give me directions"
The best and only answer really is the directions?? Really? And if they just ask for directions, but the typical reason most people ask has to do with similar back stories, no questions asked, just give the directions. It's the General Weight Loss HELP forum, not the "tell me only the answer to the questions I've asked, even though it could be potentially harmful or stupid" forum.
You don't have to actually help people by listening to their problem and assisting, if you don't want to, but I think you might be able to see that not all of the "help" is helpful.
Just some food for thought.
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kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.0 -
BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.
It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.0 -
Yes, it can. It can apply to all kinds of things. It's a pretty general thing.3dogsrunning wrote: »"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.
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BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
When we had good stickies, "Read the stickies" was DAMN good advice. Topics like Calorie Counting 101 and So you want a nice stomach continue to receive bumps from people thankful to the clear explanations and follow up answers (by the OP in a lot of cases!) provided in those topics. The stickies were especially great for people not wanting to open their diaries or otherwise share too much about themselves. They'd just need to read the posts and from there they could figure what they were doing wrong, get tips from other users, etc
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1296011/calorie-counting-101/p1
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1161603/so-you-want-a-nice-stomach/p1
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Yes, it can. It can apply to all kinds of things. It's a pretty general thing.3dogsrunning wrote: »"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.
Ok. Then I don't get the point.
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There is no obligation to "help".
If you are asking for help, the obligation is on you to be clear, accurate, and forthcoming. If you don't do all those things, you're in no position to complain about either the quality or the tenor of the "help" you receive.
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"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
If you don't like the forums, you don't have to post. And if the mantra for weightloss is CICO, then the mantra to get good directions is,
"Bro, do you even Google Maps? I've been Google Mapping for three years, never steered me wrong"
"Yeah but not everyone can use Google maps"
"Google maps is the most accurate way to get good directions"
THEN
"Why do you even want to go to California?"0 -
3dogsrunning wrote: »
Yes, it can. It can apply to all kinds of things. It's a pretty general thing.3dogsrunning wrote: »"Can anyone give me directions to California? I'm in Georgia."
California? Why do you want to there?
I don't go to California. I vacation in New York.
You, sir, are smart. I'm smart, too, so I know New York is the place to go.
Hahaha! California! Why do you like Earthquakes?
I am outside of California right now!
You could go West, but really, you should go to New York.
You shouldn't like Earthquakes so much.
Really, OP, wanting to be in an earthquake is a bad thing.
Are you flying or driving?
Don't you get it? OP wants to be in an earthquake! That's not smart.
I'm not in California!
We all avoid earthquakes and you should, too.
I never go to California! I'm not there now!!!!
I'm not there either. Ha!
<stupid picture insulting OP>
Haha! Stupid picture is so funny! Ha!
I once wanted to go to California, but I listened to smart people who say New York is best, so now I do that.
We all vacation in New York. If you don't, you'll have a miserable vacation.
I'm not in California!
Why doesn't the OP respond and explain why she wants to go to California? I don't get it.
OP is dumb. Likes earthquakes. Hasn't learned yet about New York. Eventually, she will figure it out.
I'm not in California! Hahaha! I love not being in California!
Earthquakes are bad!
<stupid picture>
Hahahaha, Liking earthquakes.
Oh, haha. So funny! We are so smart! No earthquakes for us!
I don't like Earthquakes!
And again, most of this could apply to the "other" sides as well.
Ok. Then I don't get the point.
Best I can glean from it is to quit the arguments in various threads because it's not beneficial to people seeking help
Edit for clarity
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danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.
You really do think there's more to it than that. There isn't
And as stated by previous posters, especially when the OP won't share their information, it's really hard to give them useful specific advice. You can only post a bunch of "if this, then that" guesses, which may not be directly applicable to the poster
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danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.
Meh. It is super helpful to some. It was to me. It was actual, usable advice for me. If it isn't for you, that's fine, but that doesn't make it unhelpful for others or elitest or condescending.
I also don't have to choose to not offer advice either just because you happen to not like the advice or that you don't find it helpful. You see, some people do. The advice that is not helpful to you might just be the perfect advice to someone else. That is how this all works. It's not about being jaded.
I'll go back to what I said earlier. Take what works for you, leave what doesn't. Just because the advice isn't in the tone or in the manner that you would like, it doesn't mean it is wrong or mean or condescending, it just means it isn't for you. It's for someone else.
That's how I got the majority my help from.
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danieltsmoke wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »kittywrangler wrote: »Good post. I see it all the time certain posters become parrots and even though their message isn't directed at ME, it bugs the stink out of me to see the same patronizing
"Eat at a caloric deficit, you'll lose weight" message.
Everyones journey is different.
So what would you tell someone who is asking for help on why they are not losing weight??
Its not the message I disagree with, its the delivery. Often times many people are asking for help and its just a blunt delivery of the same message with no insight or advice on how to achieve it. I've seen people post "educate yourself", well I'm fairly certain most people who are asking questions are trying to do just that. Maybe its just me, but there is a definite "tone" in some responses and it makes me sad. @Serah87
What you think might be "toned" may not be at all. I've seen many, many, many times where people were genuine in trying to help the Op's out, only to have the Op's say they/we were/are being negative, mean, rude, bully's, etc.
Others explained my complaint better than my OP. "move more, eat less" or "just cico better" responses are suuppperrrr frusrating to pretty much anyone looking for actual, usable advice.
If you've seen that persons question 1000 times and that's all the advice you have to offer at this point, then just don't offer any advice. Others who are less jaded will step up to the plate and educate that very same CICO fundemental, but in a more substantial way.
Is eating less and moving more not useable? Sure, maybe someone doesn't wanna DO it, but they should use it. I don't get it. I don't see WHY it has to be paragraphs of breaking down weight loss for grown men and women, WHY it has to be specialized for each newb thread. It's the same. Science. That people don't want to do it isn't our problem as successful users of many types of eating styles.0 -
Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.ogmomma2012 wrote: »BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.
It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.
There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.
In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.
If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.
It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.
We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.
It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.
I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.0 -
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BasicGreatGuy wrote: »
Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.ogmomma2012 wrote: »BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.
It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.
There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.
In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.
If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.
It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.
We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.
It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.
I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.
You've made some good points of your own, but didn't really address what you quoted
She said if newbies are irritated because they keep reading the same responses, maybe they could read existing posts, which would reduce the total count of the same answers
What's 1+1? Answer: 2
Doesn't matter how many ways shapes or forms you ask this question, it always will be that simple and the answer ain't gunna change. What really is to be done for people not wanting to read that same answer over and over again? If anything, that happens because other users are patient and do answer the question no matter how many times it is posed, in an attempt to give each OP the attention they would have wanted for themselves when they were in the same situation0 -
OP ... your post sounds like my thinking for 10 years of attempted dieting, where I bounced around between 50 and 100 lbs overweight.
It wasn't until I started MFP, started weighing/measuring virtually everything I ate (which drove my wife nuts sometimes when she was trying to cook), consistently tracked my input, and consistently maintained a level of activity, that I finally succeeded at losing 100 lbs (in my early 50s, I returned to a weight I last saw in my early 20s).
Exercise cals burned are hard to measure, so I purposely underestimated them (I used the typical "eat back only half those calories" advice).
My food intake was 90% measured. For that other 10% (e.g., grabbing a meal out, etc), I overestimated my intake, to create a buffer.
As I lost weight, I also had to reduce my intake from time to time, as my body got more efficient. But then something interesting happened ... once I got fit enough, my activities became longer and more intense ... and I needed to up my intake to avoid dropping too quickly.
The net is ... yes ... there can be variance in the numbers, but without numbers (food cals, exercise cals, etc), you have nothing to work with ... you are just guessing. With numbers, you can roughly correlate against your scale progress, and slightly tweak your numbers ... and succeed.
It can be done. I'm far from the only one here who has made it work via this method.
Best of luck to you!
Note: Edited to fix typos, punctuation, etc.
@flatlndr Excellent post and wonderful success story! Thanks for that. I've bolded the bit most relevant to the OP.0 -
BasicGreatGuy wrote: »
Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.ogmomma2012 wrote: »BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.
It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.
There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.
In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.
If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.
It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.
We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.
It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.
I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.
Agreed. And also, some people have been here so long they just like to start messing with people. For some, this is more than a serious forum for exchange of eating style and fitness goals. It's a place to make fun of toxinzzz and placebos and diet scams. Can't take the internet seriously all the time, yanno?
0 -
It does partially come down to manners. For example, if someone is in front of you do you just say "move" or "excuse me please"? If someone's weight loss is stalled (and half a dozen people haven't already replied with the same advice) do you say "CICO" or " Are you sure you are eating at a calorie deficit? Sometimes using a food scale can help you make sure you aren't accidentally eating more than you think."? I know which ones i would respond to better.
0 -
Last year, I was having a lot of problems trying to get started. And my weight was gradually rising to the 200 mark. Finally, I reached out to my health provider (a local hospital), who put me in touch with a dietician. She got me started with two simple goals: put a cap on my eating (which I was having trouble doing) and increase my activity. I did both. I'm down 25 pounds since January. I use MFP, plus I go to the gym often. (Exercise of choice: rowing machine, plus I work out with a training 2-3 times a week.) I also use Fitbit.
But basically, use MFP to count your calories and stick to it. And increase the activity. 10k steps a day is a good start.0 -
@nvsmomketo /agree0
-
BasicGreatGuy wrote: »
Granted there are problems on the newbie isle as well as the veteran isle. You make some good points. I think there is room for a lot of improvement on both sides.ogmomma2012 wrote: »BasicGreatGuy wrote: »ogmomma2012 wrote: »Maybe MFP should not allow new members to post until they've scrolled through at least 5 pages of newb threads... then, we won't see the same questions asked, and the same answers given. Then maybe people won't make threads about members harping on about CICO.
There is nothing preventing veterans from ignoring what they consider to be repeat topics.
I don't necessarily agree with everything the OP said. However, I do agree with one of his focal points, that often times, new members ask questions, and out come a lot of the one size fits all retorts, or people using phraseology without even giving a thought that the person they are responding to has no clue what all the jargon means.
Shouldn't the focus be to try and help (and motivate) individuals as we can, realizing that while there may be some core truths that apply to one and all, we all have different backgrounds, understanding, goals, weaknesses and strengths. I think a lot of people that are quick to respond, forget that they were new once as well.
Anyone can post in a flippant manner, "read the stickies...CICO.." and all the rest of the forum jargon.
This thread has devolved into nothing more than MFP veterans trying to be fitness macho with one another. Who does that help?
If people will leave their forum egos at the thread door, and read again what the OP has said, they just might find some points of agreement that they quickly overlooked in their attempt to quickly rebuke the OP or some other poster.
I have seen a lot of good posts on this forum in the short time I have been here. I have also seen a lot of adults with huge egos who can't seem to do anything over than post the same kind of cut and paste, arrogant, snotty response to other members, without taking the time to see the person behind the screen name. That is how people get lost. That is how people get frustrated, confused, and the leave the site, because of things like what this thread has become.
I think it's a gross exaggeration, honestly. I've seen many posters try to ascertain solutions when people post about how they haven't lost weight in 3 days. I've also seen many newbs never help people help them. Keeping their diaries closed, not giving height and weight. Someone even went out of their way to make a damned flow-chart for people to look at. So you look at their thread title, which is usually super vague, and you open it to find an also very vague OP that doesn't really tell anyone what they want to achieve, or it's unrealistic, or dangerous. I mean seriously... sometimes the best advice isn't sugar-coated. Those repeated words really helped keep me on my game. Weight loss isn't linear, weigh your food, be honest with your logging. It's a mantra that anyone who is trying to lose weight should memorize. It DOES fit everyone who is trying to lose weight. There are people who copy and paste the on the road to sexypants thread in nearly every newb thread that gets opened.
It's when things start to get ridiculous (people defending detoxes, juicing, sugar substitutes causing weight gain) that the snark comes out. It's when some people think that you don't have to eat at a calorie deficit to lose weight that snark comes out.
There are a lot of people on the site who are just looking for a quick fix. They aren't interested in details or the why of it all. They just want the answer to the teachers math problem. I can see how many veterans can get frustrated with that line of thinking and behavior. Not everyone that ask for help really wants it. I get that.
In my opinion, if a veteran is becoming too frustrated to deal with the simplest of questions, and has to retort with several posts to get to the heart of the matter as it were, maybe that is a red flag for said person to take a step back from the forum. Maybe a short break is in order.
If we stop seeing real people behind the screen names, then we are missing the real point of what the site is really all about, in my opinion.
It doesn't help that communication is limited to text. Subtle nuances of meaning and personality can get lost or ignored in such a venue as this. I think that is why we need to do our best to be as clear to others as we can in a helpful manner. If we take the time to go through baby steps with someone and they ignore us, make light of it, or are dismissive, that doesn't mean we haven't done our best. And it certainly doesn't mean that our posting isn't helpful to those reading the forum. I think many people are quick to forget that for every person you directly respond to, there are thousands reading your posts that you may never meet or talk with. And these people may take your words to heart and be the better for it, or they may see many adults acting like their egos have been bruised, and decide to ignore posts from that person from now on.
We all have our good days and bad days. We are all human beings in need in one way or another.
It shouldn't matter if one has been here 1 day or 10 years. As I said before, we were all new at one time, whether it be this forum or another. And if people can't get past their own egos and get so frustrated with the same questions over and over from new people, then maybe they should pack it in, and find a place where they can control life with a heavier rod of their liking.
I think some good points have been made on both sides of the thread issue. But those few good posts are getting lost in the sea of adult verbal diarrhea. And when that happens, I think it hurts more than just the people with upset egos and the onlookers searching for dry towel, in an attempt to find something of benefit in the thread.
You've made some good points of your own, but didn't really address what you quoted
She said if newbies are irritated because they keep reading the same responses, maybe they could read existing posts, which would reduce the total count of the same answers
What's 1+1? Answer: 2
Doesn't matter how many ways shapes or forms you ask this question, it always will be that simple and the answer ain't gunna change. What really is to be done for people not wanting to read that same answer over and over again? If anything, that happens because other users are patient and do answer the question no matter how many times it is posed, in an attempt to give each OP the attention they would have wanted for themselves when they were in the same situation
My last retort was more of a general observation response than a point by point retort that addressed many specifics of the member's post.
A lot of people new to the site don't know their way around, are not computer savvy, <insert any number of reasons here>.
I know it can get frustrating seeing the same question posted day after day, not to mention questions being asked with little to no information or background. It happens on every forum that I have seen. No matter what, it is going to happen, even if the answer is right in front of someone. A long time member can get irritated and rebuke the new member and be condescending, or he or she can take a few extra minutes and help someone. And who knows how much that could really mean to the one helped or someone reading after the fact.
Once a person loses his or her voice on a forum, it is very hard to ever get it back. All people will want to remember is that bad moment you had. And for several veterans here, it looks like there have been several bad moments.
We don't always get treated like we would like. And when you come to a forum day after day trying to help, only to be met with the kinds of things I have mentioned, it can take its toll on you if you allow it to.
When all is said and done, all we can truly control, is how each of us responds to the other. None of us is perfect. But, I think the thread could have gone much better than it has, if bruised egos hadn't gotten in the way, with kids kicking dirt on each other saying my dad can beat up your dad mentality.
I have done my best to convey my points. As such, I will take leave. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I just ask that people stop for a few moments and reflect on what has been said. And if you still disagree, no problem. That is what makes the world a great place. We can agree to disagree.0 -
nvsmomketo wrote: »It does partially come down to manners. For example, if someone is in front of you do you just say "move" or "excuse me please"? If someone's weight loss is stalled (and half a dozen people haven't already replied with the same advice) do you say "CICO" or " Are you sure you are eating at a calorie deficit? Sometimes using a food scale can help you make sure you aren't accidentally eating more than you think."? I know which ones i would respond to better.
Actually the latter is what I have seen.
Time to end this thread, it just keeps going in circles.0
This discussion has been closed.
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