New York Times - "Americans are finally eating less"
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When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
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dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.0 -
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When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
If you don't have a car or easy access to a car....a mile isn't nothing. Also when you have to work longer hours for less pay, time is not inconsequential.
The two grocery stores I prefer to shop at are both about 3/4 of a mile from me, and I walk it. Many people shop once a week. Seriously, 4 extra minutes once a week is just an excuse. I know people who will take a bus or subway every week to go grocery shopping...not because there aren't grocery stores close to them, but because they prefer one in a different part of the city either because of broader selection, better prices, or more specialized products. It's not like you need to do this every day.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.
Same here. The farmer's markets are a HUGE markup. I can't afford to buy there.0 -
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.
They are more expensive here, too. But I *will* go and spend a bit more at the farmer's market because I know the produce was harvested within a day, and as a small show of support to the local agricultural community, without whom we'd be truly fecked.0 -
You never actually lived in the inner city, did you?MoiAussi93 wrote: »When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
If you don't have a car or easy access to a car....a mile isn't nothing. Also when you have to work longer hours for less pay, time is not inconsequential.
The two grocery stores I prefer to shop at are both about 3/4 of a mile from me, and I walk it. Many people shop once a week. Seriously, 4 extra minutes once a week is just an excuse. I know people who will take a bus or subway every week to go grocery shopping...not because there aren't grocery stores close to them, but because they prefer one in a different part of the city either because of broader selection, better prices, or more specialized products. It's not like you need to do this every day.
ok. Great. Doesn't mean that the scarcity of food access and availability isn't an issue for many people in poverty in both urban and rural areas.
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MoiAussi93 wrote: »When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
If you don't have a car or easy access to a car....a mile isn't nothing. Also when you have to work longer hours for less pay, time is not inconsequential.
The two grocery stores I prefer to shop at are both about 3/4 of a mile from me, and I walk it. Many people shop once a week. Seriously, 4 extra minutes once a week is just an excuse. I know people who will take a bus or subway every week to go grocery shopping...not because there aren't grocery stores close to them, but because they prefer one in a different part of the city either because of broader selection, better prices, or more specialized products. It's not like you need to do this every day.
ok. Great. Doesn't mean that the scarcity of food access and availability isn't an issue for many people in poverty in both urban and rural areas.
If they don't have a car in rural areas I don't think they could get anywhere or do anything...including work. If they have a car...just drive to the grocery store. If it's a 15 minute drive instead of an 11 minute drive, that is a ridiculous excuse.
But I have lived in several large cities, and lived in a bad neighborhood in college. There were large grocery stores even there. And everybody in an urban area has access to public transportation if there is not. You don't need to live two blocks from a grocery store. That is one of the problems with our society...people expect everything to be super convenient. Sometimes you need to put a little effort in. If it matters to you, you will.0 -
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks.
I'm curious to hear how that works out. I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
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dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
In my area, the store prices are considerably better than farmer's markets which charge prices that can be 5x higher. I wish I was joking.
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I must live in the only area where the farmers market is actually cheaper than the grocery store.
Not by much, but still cheaper. 0 -
When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
If you don't have a car or easy access to a car....a mile isn't nothing. Also when you have to work longer hours for less pay, time is not inconsequential.
I don't drive regularly, and I live 1.7 miles from the closest grocery store.
I bike there, shop, then bike back home with a backpack full of food. Doing this has had a positive impact on my weight and how many calories I get to eat and stay the same weight. I have to shop more frequently, and that's fine, too, because it means I bike more often.
I live in a normal, middle-class area of town. There student housing all around because I live next to a university, but it's predominantly middle-class. Over the past few months, I've noticed a real increase in the number of bikes parked at the grocery store, as well as a rise in the number of people walking to-from the store with groceries.
Call me an optimist, but maybe there's something positive going on here. Maybe all these middle-class people and students are starting to purposely get more exercise and watch what they eat.
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I must live in the only area where the farmers market is actually cheaper than the grocery store. Not by much, but still cheaper.
I'm jealous. I love the idea of farmers markets. I pass a weekly one on the way home from my daughter's gymnastics class and usually stop in and buy a few things, but it's so much more expensive I can't afford to do any real shopping there. As an example, romaine lettuce is $.99 at the grocery store and $3 at the farmers market.0 -
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Near where I live, there are both "farmers markets," where once or twice a week, you can find a group of local growers meet to sell their stuff at prices definitely better than the grocery store; and there are "individually owned and operated farm markets" that are high-end with premium prices. These are definitely not the same thing.
There are also some produce stores ("Produce Junction") that sells cheap pre-bagged fruit & veggies, but it's very hit-and-miss in terms of quality. They also rarely have locally-grown items, most things are imported from Canada or elsewhere.
I miss when I lived in central/south New Jersey about 20 years ago, when there were several road-side farm stands where you could buy very fresh, very reasonably-priced produce. Many of them even had the "honor system" of paying by placing the money in a jar or box! OMG it's happened...I'm old.0 -
dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
That's great information @shell1005 . I lived in Southie and had never heard of that $2 program. Chronicle will often have programs on the lack of access to grocery stores in impoverished areas of Boston and what the local communities are doing to combat it. Interesting stuff...0 -
TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
If you don't live in one, you would not necessarily notice it, though.
It's certainly the case in Chicago, although it's something that's being worked on (and the barriers to fixing the issue are somewhat complicated). And where I live in Chicago there are tons of easily accessible groceries and food stores, because the neighborhoods can differ quite a lot.0 -
snickerscharlie wrote: »MoiAussi93 wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.
They are more expensive here, too. But I *will* go and spend a bit more at the farmer's market because I know the produce was harvested within a day, and as a small show of support to the local agricultural community, without whom we'd be truly fecked.
Yes, exactly this, for me.
I have seen farmer's markets where things weren't more expensive, but they were in more rural areas. Here in my city, anyway, they tend to be more than the (quite cheap) prices as the mainstream grocery, but on the whole still prices I'm willing to pay due to various other factors.0 -
I have considered doing a CSA share as well, however since I just shop for myself I worry I would get more veggies and fruits than I could actually use. It is a steal though and so fresh.
I do a CSA. I did it for a while and got frustrated with not being able to use everything, but when I started this again last year I decided to resubscribe. I found a different one that did fruit as well as vegetables, plus eggs, and that allowed half boxes, and then I committed to using what I got first and no matter what, and I've been really good about using it up. It's also made me experiment some and a more flexible cook in general. I really like it.0 -
Pop sales are down, especially diet. Aspartame around here is well-loved, but it's illegal in some places and some people got very nervous about differing reports on it's safety. Pepsi took the aspartame out.I just figured people were switching from full sugar to diet
Maybe people are spending less, maybe aspartame, maybe the pop companies switching to those horrendously hard to open caps on the bottles and maybe being told not to drink it. I dunno, but they're down.
Any source for aspartame being illegal in other countries? Googled, and the only thing I see making that claim are the mind unhinged (mindunleashed) and MerAhola (Mercola).0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »TimothyFish wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
That's an excuse and false, you can eat healthy on a budget even when fresh isn't readily available. Store brand frozen veggies. ..steamed. .coupons for lean meats etc. I can manage a salmon and spinach dinner for LESS per per person than what a McDonald's cost!
True. And personally when I see the organic label, I specifically search for the non-organic version because I don't want to lay that premium. My regular grocery store suits my needs just fine. The sad part is that there are indeed places that are food deserts, where a grocery store with any kind of fresh or frozen veg is actually quite far away
Yep. Impoverished neighborhoods tend to not have the same access to grocery stores that middle class ones do.
And while you can buy fresh fruits and veggies on a budget....those who have food scarcity tend go purchase foods that are overly processed because they have a longer shelf life. The idea of spending money on food that might go bad is not usually something that is worth the risk.
We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks. I work with people in poverty and I've highly encouraged my clients use the programs, etc.
Really? Perhaps it is different in Boston, but here in DFW, I haven't noticed that to be the case.
If you don't live in one, you would not necessarily notice it, though.
It's certainly the case in Chicago, although it's something that's being worked on (and the barriers to fixing the issue are somewhat complicated). And where I live in Chicago there are tons of easily accessible groceries and food stores, because the neighborhoods can differ quite a lot.
Right, the only reason I noticed a food desert area in South Florida is because my ex used to have me stop in one on the way home from the beach and here they wouldn't not sell booze to him while he was shitfaced as opposed to other stores in better neighborhoods who would refuse to sell to him.
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A. A mile carrying groceries, possibly with kids in tow, isn't nothing.When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
B. You're assuming that all supermarkets are of equal quality. I've been to Detroit numerous times, and it is a food desert. There might be "supermarkets" in a mile, but they tend to have terrible quality - you wouldn't want to buy anything from there that could spoil in less than a month. Quality control means chain stores are better, but there tends to be few of them.
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It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks.
I'm curious to hear how that works out. I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.0 -
MoiAussi93 wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
The farmer's markets near me are more expensive for produce than the grocery stores!!! That's why I never buy from them.
I have found that farmer's markets billed as exclusively organic can indeed be pricey but smaller markets and farm stands, which may very well use organic practices but are not certified organic, have much cheaper prices than the local supermarkets.
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A. A mile carrying groceries, possibly with kids in tow, isn't nothing.When I hear "desert", I get a mental picture of El Lawrence crossing the Nefud to get to Aqaba. What I don't hear is...From your link wrote:...2.2 percent [of households] live more than a mile from a supermarket...
orFrom your link wrote:...people living in low-income areas with limited access spend significantly more time (19.5 minutes) traveling to a grocery store than the national average (15 minutes).
A mile is nothing. An extra 4.5 minutes is nothing.
B. You're assuming that all supermarkets are of equal quality. I've been to Detroit numerous times, and it is a food desert. There might be "supermarkets" in a mile, but they tend to have terrible quality - you wouldn't want to buy anything from there that could spoil in less than a month. Quality control means chain stores are better, but there tends to be few of them.
Ya, I saw a mother and two kids walking to the supermarket yesterday. The smaller child was in a wagon. I imagine the wagon would be used to tow the groceries home.
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SoDamnHungry wrote: »dobbywocky wrote: »If you don't have access to a quality farmer's market that actually sells organic produce (not just homemade bread and jams), then the cost if produce can be rediculous compared to a box of instant potatoes or macaroni.
In my area, the store prices are considerably better than farmer's markets which charge prices that can be 5x higher. I wish I was joking.
My area too! And, not many of the stands advertise as organic. People go there thinking the higher price is worth getting organic produce, but most is not organic.
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It's amazing how confirmation bias lets you notice when poor people have food that you can use to judge them for having, isn't it?Cherimoose wrote: »We have some really interesting programs here (Boston) to encourage people to get more fresh fruit and veggies. We have a program where your food stamp $ is doubled at farmers markets. We also have a 2 dollar program where if you bring a grocery bag, you can fill it to the rim with veggies for 2 bucks.
I'm curious to hear how that works out. I've watched obese people on food stamps at my supermarket and they tend to choose garbage like soda and cake, even though healthier options are a few steps away and similarly priced. Seems like there's a motivational aspect to the obesity epidemic.
Not sure i follow what you're saying. Should i pretend that they're choosing healthy food?-1 -
I have a mall less than 5 minutes away from me and that one is right next to city center. There's another one on the opposite side of the city center and 3 more grocery stores about a mile away in both directions, with even more a bit further out. Most cities over here, even smaller ones, usually have a big mall somewhere close to city center.
I don't really understand why that isn't the case in your place, wouldn't it make sense to open shops around places where the most people are going to be?0
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