Muscle gaining misconceptions
Replies
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Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?0 -
alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
If you still have quite some weight to lose you shouldn't do recomp.
Recomp is adding muscle and losing fat while maintaining the same bodyweight. So basically for people who are at their goal weight but unhappy about their bodyfat percentage.
So for now continue eating at a defecit and continue lifting. Through lifting you maintain muscle you would otherwise lose as a part of normal weightloss. So now most of your weightloss is fat loss, which will make your already existing muscles more visible. You will however not add more muscle mass.
That does not mean that your muscles can't already become visible through your fat loss. Some people are fortunate enough to come out of their weightloss having that slim and fit look showing some muscle, without additional muscle mass. Key thing is to continue lifting weights.
If you would like to add more muscle mass, best thing to do is reach your goal weight and decide to either recomp or bulk when you get there.2 -
Lol, I'm sure that people weren't taking my statements as measure down to literally the exact calories possible. The the general statement is that building muscle on a deficit isn't a probability with the exceptions of the ones I stated earlier. On absolutes, okay I'll agree. That 1 calorie DOES make a difference in absolutes.
Touche'. You elaboration on it was more concise.
Catabolism and anabolism are both constantly going on in the body. Pathways don't have on and off switches, they're all just rates that vary.
If were looking at it physiologically, you either are gaining or losing muscle. Most of the time it's just small changes not noticeable on a daily basis if one is in maintenance.
But it doesn't just apply to bodybuilders. In general, this applies to regular population. As I mentioned IF there is room for someone to lose excessive fat, then there's a possibility to still gain some muscle even while in a calorie deficit, however someone with not much to lose at all, at deficit and trying to add say 10lbs of muscle ISN'T going to do it on a calorie deficit. Enlighten me if you can link me to something that supports that.Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I disagree but that's OK. Your background and experience is different to mine. My muscle gain or loss has virtually all been to do with training and very little to do with calorie surplus or deficit. I've lost muscle in a surplus and gained it in a deficit. Even lost and gained muscle at the same time.
Again though you are using calorie deficit as a catch-all term. We both know (I hope) there is a world of difference between small deficits and large deficits over long term. What we probably agree on is the need for good training, appropriate deficit and good nutrition while cutting. I'm just more optimistic about the possible results than you.
The alternative would be for you to provide a link to something that supports your stance - a long term study done on regular everyday people (sedentary non gym goers perhaps?) who are overweight, lose weight slowly, with a good training program and adequate macros and shows they cannot gain significant amounts of muscle. I've never seen one.
I'll look for some study or research for what you mentioned, but when losing tissue (catabolic) I do know that mTOR and other muscle building pathways are disrupted versus when one is being anabolic.
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My use of "at the same time" was as vague as your use of "calorie deficit".
Had you asked I would have explained it was two distinct three month periods. Muscle atrophy or hypertrophy isn't just a function of calorie balance as I'm sure you know.
First 3 months.
Major knee injury with leg either immobilised or flapping uselessly in the breeze. 5" loss of quad circumference but at same time very significant tricep and trap growth from the novel training stimulus of going everywhere on crutches. (BTW - novel training stimulus is missing from your list of "few cases".) Major calorie surplus!
Second 3 months.
Surgery, learning to walk again and mostly stair climbing restored 3" to quad size very rapidly. Simultaneously lost most of my newly gained coke bottle shoulders. Small calorie deficit.
Taking away the injury related atrophy/hypertrophy and just using a more relevant example:
In my fifties when cutting everything indicated that I lose muscle mass at 1lb/week deficit but can gain small amounts of muscle at 1lb/month - somewhere in that range was my personal tipping point and it definitely wasn't TDEE. In my twenties those numbers would have been very different as I was genetically gifted compared to my peer group - that's another of the "few cases" missing.
My major objection to your OP is turning generalisations into absolutes. That leads to the uneducated parroting trite phrases such as "you can't gain muscle in a deficit".
I'm sure no-one would really believe that someone with a TDEE of 3000 per day can:
Gain muscle at 3001
Recomp at 3000 (unless very lean)
Impossible to gain muscle at 2999
That's obviously taking it to ludicrous extremes but that's what making absolute statements does.
Regards.
Certified.
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Been keeping fit for 40 years and have studied Shibari enthusiastically.
Your situation you described happened with atrophy/hypertrophy due to intentional non use. Let's stick to the OP and keep discussing people who are intentionally trying to put on muscle while relatively healthy enough to do so.
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I cordially invite you to participate in discussion.gillian_nalletamby wrote: »... My major objection to your OP is turning generalisations into absolutes. That leads to the uneducated parroting trite phrases such as "you can't gain muscle in a deficit".
I'm sure no-one would really believe that someone with a TDEE of 3000 per day can:
Gain muscle at 3001
Recomp at 3000 (unless very lean)
Impossible to gain muscle at 2999
That's obviously taking it to ludicrous extremes but that's what making absolute statements does.
Regards.
Certified.
Black belt in Origami.
Been keeping fit for 40 years and have studied Shibari enthusiastically.
Thank you.
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I wouldn't focus on recomp if you have that much weight to still lose. Just stay at deficit. Also understand that age and gender have a direct effect on the effectiveness of muscle gaining due to metabolic rate and hormone activity (unless of course there's some enhancement going on).alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Great post. Thank you!!0
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alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
If you still have quite some weight to lose you shouldn't do recomp.
Recomp is adding muscle and losing fat while maintaining the same bodyweight. So basically for people who are at their goal weight but unhappy about their bodyfat percentage.
So for now continue eating at a defecit and continue lifting. Through lifting you maintain muscle you would otherwise lose as a part of normal weightloss. So now most of your weightloss is fat loss, which will make your already existing muscles more visible. You will however not add more muscle mass.
That does not mean that your muscles can't already become visible through your fat loss. Some people are fortunate enough to come out of their weightloss having that slim and fit look showing some muscle, without additional muscle mass. Key thing is to continue lifting weights.
If you would like to add more muscle mass, best thing to do is reach your goal weight and decide to either recomp or bulk when you get there.
Thank you so much AslSmile. I totally (finally) understand. Makes lots of sense.
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I wouldn't focus on recomp if you have that much weight to still lose. Just stay at deficit. Also understand that age and gender have a direct effect on the effectiveness of muscle gaining due to metabolic rate and hormone activity (unless of course there's some enhancement going on).alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Awesome. Thank you ninerbuff I appreciate all of your help.
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My pleasure. Just kill it in the gym each session.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
I wouldn't focus on recomp if you have that much weight to still lose. Just stay at deficit. Also understand that age and gender have a direct effect on the effectiveness of muscle gaining due to metabolic rate and hormone activity (unless of course there's some enhancement going on).alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Awesome. Thank you ninerbuff I appreciate all of your help.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »
Recomp is continuing with a progressive weight lifting regimen at a maintenance if there's still fat to lose, or a slight surplus so one doesn't bulk up too much. Gaining muscle on this program can happen, but it's a long process. It may take months just to put on a pound or so of muscle.alfonsinarosinsky wrote: »I'm new to lifting weights. I'm not quite sure of something. If I weight train while losing weight that's good as I understand it but when I get to my desired weight then I would have to "eat to gain" in order to build muscle? Is that right? Also been seeing "recomp" a lot. What exactly does that mean? Thank you in advance.
And yes if you want to build muscle, you're going to add mass. That does require a surplus.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Thank you so much for answering my question. So even with a substantial amount of weight to lose (at least 50+ lbs) this is the way to go? Eat at maintainence +15% on days lifting and maintainence -10% on cardio or rest days? Instead of the usual mfp's at 1 lb a week or 2 lbs a week etc.
It feels scary to do Lol but I'm willing to try it.
I lift 3 days a week for an hour with a personal trainer and am 5'10". 61 yrs old female.
When you say it takes a long time you are talking about gaining muscle. Will this also slow down the losing weight part of it?
Again, thank you so much and thanks in advance.
Regards
Alfie.
Edit. I think I got that formula on another thread but does that seem correct?
If you still have quite some weight to lose you shouldn't do recomp.
Recomp is adding muscle and losing fat while maintaining the same bodyweight. So basically for people who are at their goal weight but unhappy about their bodyfat percentage.
So for now continue eating at a defecit and continue lifting. Through lifting you maintain muscle you would otherwise lose as a part of normal weightloss. So now most of your weightloss is fat loss, which will make your already existing muscles more visible. You will however not add more muscle mass.
That does not mean that your muscles can't already become visible through your fat loss. Some people are fortunate enough to come out of their weightloss having that slim and fit look showing some muscle, without additional muscle mass. Key thing is to continue lifting weights.
If you would like to add more muscle mass, best thing to do is reach your goal weight and decide to either recomp or bulk when you get there.
Thank you so much AslSmile. I totally (finally) understand. Makes lots of sense.
Glad I could help0 -
This has been one of the saddest things for me to learn as a newbie. I started lifting while wanting to lose 20 pregnancy lbs. I feel like if I eat a deficit, my strength goes to hell, and if I eat at or above maintenance, I get stronger but stay fat
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It happens to professional athletes as well. Don't feel bad. Just try to be the strongest you can at 20lbs less weight.deluxmary2000 wrote: »This has been one of the saddest things for me to learn as a newbie. I started lifting while wanting to lose 20 pregnancy lbs. I feel like if I eat a deficit, my strength goes to hell, and if I eat at or above maintenance, I get stronger but stay fat
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But it doesn't just apply to bodybuilders. In general, this applies to regular population. As I mentioned IF there is room for someone to lose excessive fat, then there's a possibility to still gain some muscle even while in a calorie deficit, however someone with not much to lose at all, at deficit and trying to add say 10lbs of muscle ISN'T going to do it on a calorie deficit. Enlighten me if you can link me to something that supports that.Think you are underestimating quite how low many people's start point is and in my opinion this statement is over-stated - "It's improbable to gain muscle while on a calorie deficit. It CAN happen in a few cases."
Calorie deficit is very vague too - 50, 100, 500, 1000 a day?
"Few cases" applies to a huge slice of the population who are undertrained or sedentary and also carrying around a massive energy store.
Strength/weight training is such a minority pursuit that there are loads of people with the potential to make muscle gains as long as they don't go for an excessive calorie deficit and train appropriately. Trying to project what bodybuilders have to do to make incremental gains when they are already fully trained and lean to the general under-trained and fat population is misleading.
That people mistake strength gains and improvements in definition for actual muscle growth is well known but the rest is a bit exagerated in my view.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I disagree but that's OK. Your background and experience is different to mine. My muscle gain or loss has virtually all been to do with training and very little to do with calorie surplus or deficit. I've lost muscle in a surplus and gained it in a deficit. Even lost and gained muscle at the same time.
Again though you are using calorie deficit as a catch-all term. We both know (I hope) there is a world of difference between small deficits and large deficits over long term. What we probably agree on is the need for good training, appropriate deficit and good nutrition while cutting. I'm just more optimistic about the possible results than you.
The alternative would be for you to provide a link to something that supports your stance - a long term study done on regular everyday people (sedentary non gym goers perhaps?) who are overweight, lose weight slowly, with a good training program and adequate macros and shows they cannot gain significant amounts of muscle. I've never seen one.
How though? Losing muscle at a surplus I can understand if you're not training + having low protein intake. If your protein is fine though there shouldn't be any reason for your body to lose it. (N=1 study, a good friend of mine hasn't been training for I don't even know how long, at least a year and he hasn't lost any noticable amount of muscle in the time, just gotten a bit more bacon on his ribs)
But gaining muscle at a deficit would increase your deficit even further which seems to go against what your body would be prioritizing in a deficit.
I don't think you're confusing strength gains with muscle gains either.0 -
deluxmary2000 wrote: »This has been one of the saddest things for me to learn as a newbie. I started lifting while wanting to lose 20 pregnancy lbs. I feel like if I eat a deficit, my strength goes to hell, and if I eat at or above maintenance, I get stronger but stay fat
I find that frustrating too. I recently decided to cut calories again and strength loss was something I was dreading. Then I hurt my back and ended up greatly reducing the weight on several exercises as a result. It stinks having had to reduce the weight but working my way back up is reminiscent of that newbie strength gain phase and it's making eating in a deficit more tolerable. (Though I still don't recommend injuring yourself to recapture those moments
) 0 -
I think what's dishearting is losing strength as you age. After age 45, I've noticed year by year a little less strength than what I did the previous year. I'm still in much much better shape and stronger (relative) than most males in my age group, but the losses can sometimes be disappointing. But hey, that's how it goes and I just comply. I want to go into my later years physically active rather than getting injured trying to attepmt a lift I could do 5 years ago just for ego's sake.
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This is helpful; thank you.0
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Going a little off topic, but staying within the bounds the conversation has strayed;
Ninerbuff could you expand on the muscle loss through ageing theme, and what to expect.
Cheers, h.
Just as a bit of background info:
Me ( see avatar), I am 62, 5'1, 100-105 lb. maintained for 6+years (1200-1450 cal) and am more interested in functional fitness and retaining functional strength, as opposed to having the body a 30yr old could attain through heavy lifting.
I cut back on structured exercise during the summer as I am very active, and do nerdfitness plus the basic compound moves using hand weights, aqua fit, and Zumba in the winter. I am find this routine helps with strength, flexibility, and balance as well as keeping the cardio aspect shuffling along.
Feedback on ageing would be appreciated. If you feel you would prefer answering this in a new thread that is ok.
h,0 -
deluxmary2000 wrote: »This has been one of the saddest things for me to learn as a newbie. I started lifting while wanting to lose 20 pregnancy lbs. I feel like if I eat a deficit, my strength goes to hell, and if I eat at or above maintenance, I get stronger but stay fat
Strength isn't as much of the issue, at least not for me, as maintaining muscle mass. Then again, I'm not participating in any contests of strength and I can carry my own boxes and open my own damn pickle jar so I'm satisfied. At 49, going on 50, I've come to realize that muscle is something I need to ensure I keep. I'm luckier than many because I have always built muscle and gained strength fairly easily for a woman. A few months at about 200 calories over maintenance per day and I've put on a few extra pounds of muscle. I'm now working my way toward a lower body fat percentage, which is not as much fun, but I'm holding my ground in the strength department and even added a little here and there.0 -
middlehaitch wrote: »Going a little off topic, but staying within the bounds the conversation has strayed;
Ninerbuff could you expand on the muscle loss through ageing theme, and what to expect.
Cheers, h.
Just as a bit of background info:
Me ( see avatar), I am 62, 5'1, 100-105 lb. maintained for 6+years (1200-1450 cal) and am more interested in functional fitness and retaining functional strength, as opposed to having the body a 30yr old could attain through heavy lifting.
I cut back on structured exercise during the summer as I am very active, and do nerdfitness plus the basic compound moves using hand weights, aqua fit, and Zumba in the winter. I am find this routine helps with strength, flexibility, and balance as well as keeping the cardio aspect shuffling along.
Feedback on ageing would be appreciated. If you feel you would prefer answering this in a new thread that is ok.
h,
you're body ages- everything ages- and you cannot just get consistently stronger- it's just not going to happen.
As long as you continue to train the damage will be as minimal as it can be. But just like your eye sight goes down hill- so does everything else. But I mean hell- what's that woman's name- she's 77 and she competes in powerlifting comps.
As long as you keep up the training and treat your body well and don't run it into the ground- it'll continue to work well for you- even as it dies.0 -
Thanks Jo,
I am not looking to get consistently stronger, just hold on to what I have for as long as I can. The best way possible.
I did try heavy lifting with a bar, but I found it was pushing me a bit too hard. Hand weight progression is fine, though a little disappointing, just a mental thing wanting to do the bar.
I am definitely in much better shape than I was 6 years ago, (30lb heavier and in mid menopause) when I did nothing.
I rarely post with a question, but thought as this topic had raised the point of natural muscle loss through ageing, I would glean a bit further info on it.
Your feedback, as always, is appreciated.
Cheers, h.0 -
I suck at texting so you'll have to wait till I get home Sunday evening so I can answer better.middlehaitch wrote: »Going a little off topic, but staying within the bounds the conversation has strayed;
Ninerbuff could you expand on the muscle loss through ageing theme, and what to expect.
Cheers, h.
Just as a bit of background info:
Me ( see avatar), I am 62, 5'1, 100-105 lb. maintained for 6+years (1200-1450 cal) and am more interested in functional fitness and retaining functional strength, as opposed to having the body a 30yr old could attain through heavy lifting.
I cut back on structured exercise during the summer as I am very active, and do nerdfitness plus the basic compound moves using hand weights, aqua fit, and Zumba in the winter. I am find this routine helps with strength, flexibility, and balance as well as keeping the cardio aspect shuffling along.
Feedback on ageing would be appreciated. If you feel you would prefer answering this in a new thread that is ok.
h,
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Haha ninerbuff, my son says he could take a nap waiting for me to type out a text.
Thanks for the reply, h.0 -
I definitely needed to read this thread tonight, so thank you! I just reached my goal weight (132 lbs / 5'5" / 47 yrs young). My starting weight was 163, so I'm super happy and am trying to accept that I'm fine at 132 (and not obsess with losing more weight). I did not do any weight / strength training during my weight loss time. But now I am starting to work with a trainer to build strength and muscle (I want to tone) as I think I'm "skinny fat" (not loose skin from weight loss, but rather "just" fat.) Up to now, I've been consuming 1200 - 1300 calories / day. My trainer said to increase that to 1700 cals per day. To help with that, she said to drink more protein shakes (she recommended dymatize isolate). And obviously, eat more foods high in protein. I know logically that what she is saying and what you posted makes sense about needing to eat more calories to gain muscle if weight training. But, for someone like me it's terrifying to make that leap in calories. I'm going to do it; it just scares the bejeezus out of me.
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TrayLo
Just a little food for thought from my personal experience.
Increase your cals slowly. It makes an easier adjustment both physically and mentally. 50 a week should do you.
I have both protein shakes and bars, I use them if my proteins are particularly low, not as an everyday food substitute. That being said, if I end up doing a weight session earlier in the day then Zumba or aqua fit later a shake( made with water) and a bit of fruit is ideal as I can't exercise well if I eat 3 hr beforehand.
If you are starting to up your exercise, your body will appreciate the extra food.
Cheers, h.0 -
I'm really fascinated by the whole muscle-nutrition balance. Since the body goes through multiple cycles of anabolism and catabolism every day, what is the cut off point for being able to put on muscle over time? What if you provided some muscle growth stimulus and ate at a surplus on one day and then a deficit the next for an overall negative calorie balance? Wouldn't you theoretically be able to build muscle on a deficit over those two days? If not, would it happen if you alternated weeks instead? months (like traditional bulk/cut cycles)? Just been thinking about it after seeing the results of some body recomp contest where the winners attributed their transformations to calorie cycling. They didn't talk specifics, though.0
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middlehaitch wrote: »TrayLo
Just a little food for thought from my personal experience.
Increase your cals slowly. It makes an easier adjustment both physically and mentally. 50 a week should do you.
I have both protein shakes and bars, I use them if my proteins are particularly low, not as an everyday food substitute. That being said, if I end up doing a weight session earlier in the day then Zumba or aqua fit later a shake( made with water) and a bit of fruit is ideal as I can't exercise well if I eat 3 hr beforehand.
If you are starting to up your exercise, your body will appreciate the extra food.
Cheers, h.
Thank you! I appreciate the feedback!
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My strongman uncle was lifting very heavy into his late 50's but warned me to stop now before I ended up like him. I did as he advised!I think what's dishearting is losing strength as you age. After age 45, I've noticed year by year a little less strength than what I did the previous year. I'm still in much much better shape and stronger (relative) than most males in my age group, but the losses can sometimes be disappointing. But hey, that's how it goes and I just comply. I want to go into my later years physically active rather than getting injured trying to attepmt a lift I could do 5 years ago just for ego's sake.
He's is now in his 70's barely able to raise his arms laterally and is afflicted with arthritis is every joint.
My bench, deadlift and squat is light compared to how I maxed out years before.
My uncle said he was always trying to compete with his younger self. Don't do it!
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Unfortunately, that's the catch 22 I'm currently in. I wanted to lose 37 pounds and so far I'm down about 20. I work out three days a week minimum, walk 5 miles twice a week and only eat about 1600 calories daily, but I also wanted to gain muscle. I figured after I take off the next 17 pounds I would increase my calorie and protein intake so I can gain muscle.0
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In an effort to simplify and clarify, I think a few in this thread have actually made it more complicated then it needs to be by arguing what seems to be semantics.
To truly simplify: Eating at a large deficit won't grow muscle no matter how hard you try. However, it is not impossible to grow muscle at a slight deficit should various other nutritional and exercise factors be precise.
I understand the frustration from those who put so much effort into gaining muscle because of the following scenario we see play out on MFP frequently:
Comment 1: "I've been exercising and eating right, but I'm gaining weight!"
Response to comment: "Oh, don't worry hunny! You've just gained a bit of muscle!"
The reality is that... no hunny, you haven't gained any muscle.
To simplify further, if you're at a deficit with a decent amount of weight to lose, just have a blended workout of cardio and strength and shred the fat. Once you get at or close to your goal weight then start strength training more seriously if you want to gain muscle.0 -
Well, here's how I see it:TheFranLover wrote: »In an effort to simplify and clarify, I think a few in this thread have actually made it more complicated then it needs to be by arguing what seems to be semantics.
To truly simplify: Eating at a large deficit won't grow muscle no matter how hard you try. However, it is not impossible to grow muscle at a slight deficit should various other nutritional and exercise factors be precise.
I understand the frustration from those who put so much effort into gaining muscle because of the following scenario we see play out on MFP frequently:
Comment 1: "I've been exercising and eating right, but I'm gaining weight!"
Response to comment: "Oh, don't worry hunny! You've just gained a bit of muscle!"
The reality is that... no hunny, you haven't gained any muscle.
To simplify further, if you're at a deficit with a decent amount of weight to lose, just have a blended workout of cardio and strength and shred the fat. Once you get at or close to your goal weight then start strength training more seriously if you want to gain muscle.
A good portion of people reading a simplified post on gaining muscle in a deficit will be in exception case #2 "Newbie to lifting". And, depending on your starting point, newbie gains can be quite significant and last for months. So, I find the original post to be unnecessarily discouraging. The possibility that people will read "can't gain muscle in a calorie deficit" and stop (or never start) weight training is there and its incredibly sad. It's almost criminal not to include the fact that weight training in a deficit preserves lean body mass.
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