No one eats carbs alone
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I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
@earlnabby I assume your statement what can lead to binges for you is true for you but it is false for me.
I can binge on carbs all day every day until I am so full my gut is in pain and still eat more. I can try to binge on fats and I can not because I get so full I would throw up if I tried to consume more.
Case in point is the difference between boiled custard and heavy whipping cream. I can and have drank two quarts of boiled custard in one evening. Just a pint of heavy whipping cream and I am stuffed and can not or will not drink more. I love the taste of both and the sugar is the only difference I can detect.
It could be bacon and cake and still the same story in my case.
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Well this is a refreshing conversation to read!0
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I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
I only partially agree with this. Yes, we need self control but there was something about sugars that got me, beyond the shakes, headaches and crankiness. If I was eating sugars, I ate more and was preoccupied about eating more. When I went low carb, within a week I had lost all cravings for sugar. Sure, I would still love to have a soda or bag of chips, but I can easily say no thanks now, I no longer feel such a drive to have the sugar... and I know I didn't break that habit in only a week. There was something else to it - for me.
This is all just from my perspective. Perhaps for others, sugar moderation is just about self control. Sort of like the fact that I find all other foods are a piece of cake to moderate (for me).0 -
Right, when I abused foods, I included the whole spectrum of macro's.
And that is what got me fat.
And losing 100 pounds involved 2 changes.- Quanity of food
- Quality of food
It's not rocket science...0 -
That settles it! You guys just convinced me to start my sugar detox!
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Joking aside - a lot of good information!
Thanks OP.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
@earlnabby I assume your statement what can lead to binges for you is true for you but it is false for me.
I can binge on carbs all day every day until I am so full my gut is in pain and still eat more. I can try to binge on fats and I can not because I get so full I would throw up if I tried to consume more.
Case in point is the difference between boiled custard and heavy whipping cream. I can and have drank two quarts of boiled custard in one evening. Just a pint of heavy whipping cream and I am stuffed and can not or will not drink more. I love the taste of both and the sugar is the only difference I can detect.
It could be bacon and cake and still the same story in my case.
But that's still a choice. Regardless of your excuse, it's a choice. Obviously you made the choice to not eat the carbs at all, but if you have the willpower to do that, you could have the willpower to only eat some. That's a choice, always.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
@earlnabby I assume your statement what can lead to binges for you is true for you but it is false for me.
I can binge on carbs all day every day until I am so full my gut is in pain and still eat more. I can try to binge on fats and I can not because I get so full I would throw up if I tried to consume more.
Case in point is the difference between boiled custard and heavy whipping cream. I can and have drank two quarts of boiled custard in one evening. Just a pint of heavy whipping cream and I am stuffed and can not or will not drink more. I love the taste of both and the sugar is the only difference I can detect.
It could be bacon and cake and still the same story in my case.
But that's still a choice. Regardless of your excuse, it's a choice. Obviously you made the choice to not eat the carbs at all, but if you have the willpower to do that, you could have the willpower to only eat some. That's a choice, always.
Yep.0 -
So you burn dietary fat or you burn carbs... in the end, if CI = CO, you maintain weight.
Yep, if you maintain weight by oxidising the amount of fat you eat or make then you are eating as many calories as you are oxidising.
The difference is that burning dietary fat is oxidising the stuff I want rid of. I can spend weeks floundering with futile carbohydrate cycling - burn a bit, eat a bit and replenish it- or if I can get the ducks in a row and maximise fat oxidation the weight comes off, visibly.0 -
Your ducks are only in a row if your calories align to your goals. It doesn't really matter which source of energy you burn because your body will cycle between fat burning and fat storage.So you burn dietary fat or you burn carbs... in the end, if CI = CO, you maintain weight.
Yep, if you maintain weight by oxidising the amount of fat you eat or make then you are eating as many calories as you are oxidising.
The difference is that burning dietary fat is oxidising the stuff I want rid of. I can spend weeks floundering with futile carbohydrate cycling - burn a bit, eat a bit and replenish it- or if I can get the ducks in a row and maximise fat oxidation the weight comes off, visibly.
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Your ducks are only in a row if your calories align to your goals. It doesn't really matter which source of energy you burn because your body will cycle between fat burning and fat storage.
I can see you're married to the calorie hypothesis. I'm more of a nutrient partitioning guy. Post hoc energy balances will balance.
If I want to lose fat I need to oxidise it, and to do that I need to get it out of storage efficiently. These things happen when I get my blood glucose down, which is all I can measure regularly. It isn't easy, welcome to prediabetes.
If I ran down the street and used 50 grams of glucose to do so I would not be confident of any overall effect on my fat balance.0 -
Your ducks are only in a row if your calories align to your goals. It doesn't really matter which source of energy you burn because your body will cycle between fat burning and fat storage.
I can see you're married to the calorie hypothesis. I'm more of a nutrient partitioning guy. Post hoc energy balances will balance.
If I want to lose fat I need to oxidise it, and to do that I need to get it out of storage efficiently. These things happen when I get my blood glucose down, which is all I can measure regularly. It isn't easy, welcome to prediabetes.
If I ran down the street and used 50 grams of glucose to do so I would not be confident of any overall effect on my fat balance.
So someone with pre-diabetes will not be able to burn fat unless they go low carb? So if as an experiment you consume 300 grams of pure carbs every day for 2 weeks you will not lose anything?
I started with severe pre-diabetes (118 average fasting glucose) and PCOS (increased insulin resistance) and lost nearly 100 pounds with moderate carbs (140-180 g) with some high carb days sprinkled here and there reducing my waist by nearly 16 inches in the process and knocking my blood sugar back down to normal range. Are you saying I'm some sort of freak of nature or that all the weight I lost is some mystery substance that isn't fat?
I can understand personal reasons for low carbing like having better adherence or feeling less hungry, but placing too much focus on details that are trivial to a regular person I find odd. I mean someone looking to compete and tryting to lose that last 1% of fat is a different story, but someone who is doing it for weight loss or general wellbeing and maintenance does not need to worry about 90% of the details some people seem to be obsessed with, like macro destribution outside of personal preference, meal timing, carb loading for a 20 minute exercise session, protein timing, GI, number of meals...etc.0 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
@earlnabby I assume your statement what can lead to binges for you is true for you but it is false for me.
I can binge on carbs all day every day until I am so full my gut is in pain and still eat more. I can try to binge on fats and I can not because I get so full I would throw up if I tried to consume more.
Case in point is the difference between boiled custard and heavy whipping cream. I can and have drank two quarts of boiled custard in one evening. Just a pint of heavy whipping cream and I am stuffed and can not or will not drink more. I love the taste of both and the sugar is the only difference I can detect.
It could be bacon and cake and still the same story in my case.
You admit you binge on both carbs and fat, therefore it is not the carbs that are making you binge, it is you.
[Edited by MFP Mods]
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amusedmonkey wrote: »Your ducks are only in a row if your calories align to your goals. It doesn't really matter which source of energy you burn because your body will cycle between fat burning and fat storage.
I can see you're married to the calorie hypothesis. I'm more of a nutrient partitioning guy. Post hoc energy balances will balance.
If I want to lose fat I need to oxidise it, and to do that I need to get it out of storage efficiently. These things happen when I get my blood glucose down, which is all I can measure regularly. It isn't easy, welcome to prediabetes.
If I ran down the street and used 50 grams of glucose to do so I would not be confident of any overall effect on my fat balance.
So someone with pre-diabetes will not be able to burn fat unless they go low carb? So if as an experiment you consume 300 grams of pure carbs every day for 2 weeks you will not lose anything?
I started with severe pre-diabetes (118 average fasting glucose) and PCOS (increased insulin resistance) and lost nearly 100 pounds with moderate carbs (140-180 g) with some high carb days sprinkled here and there reducing my waist by nearly 16 inches in the process and knocking my blood sugar back down to normal range. Are you saying I'm some sort of freak of nature or that all the weight I lost is some mystery substance that isn't fat?
If you are that special freak of nature, then I am too. I am even more so because I reduced full blown diabetes by eating moderate carb (160-180 g. daily, 35% of total calories). Went from an a1c of 7.3, which is an average blood glucose over 3 months of 163, to 5.3 (105 average). I also have lost 118 lb so far. I don't know how many inches I lost from my waist because I didn't start measuring until I had already lost a lot, but I have gone down 5 pants sizes.
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Carbs get you fat? Oh well i eat around 420-500 carbs per day and yet im still not fat and never been.. Carb is a must in your diet and you cant go without them when you train hard! Just stay active fix yourself a goal and you should be able to do anything!
I didnt read all the post above, im just posting my 2 cents
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I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
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I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
If you actually read my post, you would know I don't have total self control. I have my trigger foods, just like everyone else. I binge, just like everyone else. I just know that me and my thinking is the problem, not a specific food. Eating a carb will not make you binge. Eating a fat will not make you binge. Not being able to say "NO!" will make you binge.
I never said that people with low blood sugar, high blood sugar, etc, etc, etc. that it is all about self control. Self control has nothing to do with it. It is all about knowledge and finding the right balance of foods to manage whatever your issue is. People who have issues need to be proactive. They need to listen to their bodies and eat what and when maximizes the benefits of the food.
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Carbs get you fat? Oh well i eat around 420-500 carbs per day and yet im still not fat and never been.. Carb is a must in your diet and you cant go without them when you train hard! Just stay active fix yourself a goal and you should be able to do anything!
I didnt read all the post above, im just posting my 2 cents
The bolded isn't entirely true. Many athletes find they perform somewhat better when using carbs (Peter Atia MD, a triathalete, calls carbs a performance enhancing substance, and works out intensely on less than 50g of carbs per day) but eating a moderate to high carb diet is not actually needed to perform well at an elite level.
Granted, the first month of vLCHF eating will affect your performance, but it is a temporary state as the body adjusts to burning fats.
I'm glad your diet is working well for you. LCHF isn't needed for improved health by all people, or even the majority. It looks like you are one of those individuals who do well without eating LCHF.0 -
I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
If you actually read my post, you would know I don't have total self control. I have my trigger foods, just like everyone else. I binge, just like everyone else. I just know that me and my thinking is the problem, not a specific food. Eating a carb will not make you binge. Eating a fat will not make you binge. Not being able to say "NO!" will make you binge.
I never said that people with low blood sugar, high blood sugar, etc, etc, etc. that it is all about self control. Self control has nothing to do with it. It is all about knowledge and finding the right balance of foods to manage whatever your issue is. People who have issues need to be proactive. They need to listen to their bodies and eat what and when maximizes the benefits of the food.
For the about half the US population that has diabetes or prediabetes, eating çarb and sometimes protein can set up a strong body based call for more food - and could provoke a binge in those so inclined. I'd guess the crew on mfp has a higher proportion of metabolic issues than the general population so it might be important to consider the audience.
Baggy portions and food hiding are great tools to stop mindless eating. I can eat a lot - but is it really a bingeing behaviour if you can face 'not eating it' and say 'ok'. I don't know.
Anyway, my point was that food choices can obliterate willpower and focusing on willpower camoflages some other solutions that might actually make a huge difference in people's success. Sorry, I should have said it better and kinder.
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I agree the bolded can happen, but for the people this diet benefits most (those with IR) eating sugars and carbs in moderation can lead to binges too. Restricting foods and eating foods in moderation can both lead to binges.
It is not the foods that lead to binges, it is self control (or lack thereof) that lead to binges. Everyone has foods that they have problems with and it varies from person to person. I cannot have nuts around the house. I buy large bags but keep them in the car and bring in one serving at a time when I want to eat some so I am less tempted to binge. I also have a problem with peanut butter.
We all know our trigger foods and avoidance or portion control is the only way to deal with them. Saying that carbs cause binges is wrong. We need to start taking responsibility for our own actions and stop blaming other things.
Congrats on the superior self control.
Please understand that simple decision-making is one small element in people's nutritional battle for better weight and health.
You telling someone with a low blood sugar or some other issues they need to explore that it is all 'self control' undermines development of a multitude of strategies making weight loss possible without challenging levels of self control.
What you're projecting is not at all what is being said. Food does not reach out to us, we reach out to the food, therefore we need to change our relationship with food to have some self control. For me, establishing a good relationship with food took a lot of self-educating, exploration of my own issues, and simply learning how to say no to something until I could learn how to eat in moderation. I also still have foods that I feel triggered by.
For example, M & M's at the office are one thing that I have trouble moderating, so I don't eat them there, because I have a tendency to binge when I'm under stress. However, I can have a bag of M & M's in my cabinet at home and portion them out just fine if I want some. In this respect, I know I need to work on my work stress issues rather than blaming the food.
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