People Problem
Replies
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
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Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.
Agreed.
One of the hardest but most rewarding challenges in life is figuring out who you are, what you stand for and what it means to be actually true to yourself.
Ideas are infectious. Just like disease. And like disease we need measures to prevent against them
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I will just say that to measure is to know. Why would you not track your weight and consumption? Why not continue to use the tools that got you where you want to be?
I agree. One of the biggest problems in losing weight is maintaining the loss. Too many times I lost weight and then went back to old habits allowing it to sneak back on. Don't get me wrong, it didn't come back overnight. One day, I would eat chips with my sandwich. The next, I'd have another cocktail. You get the picture. I would not get on the scale. I kept telling myself you'll get back on track. A three pound gain turned to five. The next month another three. Five months another 20. For me, I have to weigh myself and I have to log the food. At 57 the bad habits are too well ingrained.
As mentioned above my entire circumstance is different to what it was before the weight loss started. I have no problem following MFP again should the need arise.0 -
Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
I don't recall claiming otherwise?0 -
Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.
Agreed.
One of the hardest but most rewarding challenges in life is figuring out who you are, what you stand for and what it means to be actually true to yourself.
Ideas are infectious. Just like disease. And like disease we need measures to prevent against them
If only we were so immune to the ideas of others the world wouldn't have so many examples of destructive ideology scattered across time.0 -
Then the bridge jumping analogy applies and blaming your friends, family, or anyone else is, again, a cop out.DeguelloTex wrote: »
Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.DeguelloTex wrote: »
If your eating choices are dependent on the actions and behaviors of others, whose issue is that other than yours?DeguelloTex wrote: »
What was hostile in what I wrote?DeguelloTex wrote: »
That's a cop out, pure and simple. My eating choices aren't dependent on the actions and behaviors of others. If yours are, that's your issue.All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people.DeguelloTex wrote: »No, it isn't. I'm an adult. I'm responsible for my choices. I don't get to blame my poor choices on other people.
I don't think Jztime is letting other people make his choices at all. He's only justifiably irritated that other people believe they have a right to say anything whatsoever about those choices.
Jztime, good for you!
Thank you, that is entirely my point. It worries me when we agree with those who don't have weight problems about being an adult and makes choices. Often for a lot of us it isn't a simple as just having a weight problem there is an awful lot going on in the background. My depression can be at the whim of other people's words and actions. That leads me to eat. Many other people suffer from things that cause them to eat or behave in other ways that are unhelpful.
Did you know that if there is a suicide of a woman aged 25 on the news we will see an increase in suicides for women in that age group? More worryingly is there becomes an increase in single driver fatalities of the same age group. Those who want to protect their families from them taking their own lives. That we are "all adults" completely ignores that we are social animals dependent upon the action and behaviours of one another.
Nothing is "one size fits all". Why so hostile?
Was it really essential to add "that's your problem"? "That's a cop out" was your response to a serious comment presented with facts on how easily we as humans are influenced by others and society. It was hostile and dismissive without any substantive evidence.
Part of being a responsible, moral agent of a human being is not giving in to the influences of others when it comes to making choices for yourself. Isn't "If your friends jumped off a bridge, would you do it, too" a common refrain from parents over there as it is over here? From a very early age, we're taught that just because someone else does something or wants you to do something doesn't mean you should do it and it certainly doesn't mean you aren't the responsible party if you do.
Repeating that it was "hostile" doesn't explain what was hostile about it. What was hostile about it? The mere fact of disagreement?
Yeah, I'll admit that I am dismissive of the idea of people looking for excuses for why they make poor choices. In my view, trying to palm off such poor choices as being due to the influence of others is problematic.
We shall have to disagree on the last point.
To me it felt hostile. I will concede that Internet forums are not the best place to judge context.
The bridge jumping analogue only applies if you can clearly see what is being done is dangerous and destructive. We fall for much for insidious traps created by society than that.
I don't recall claiming otherwise?
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Love it. You have a serious way with words! Coworkers love to throw in their two cents when it comes to weight loss. I definitely know that first hand.0
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DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
I never wanted to be over 400 pounds. I dreamed of the day I would become "normal". I just didn't have the skills/tools at the time to do it. Part of the issue, and I do agree that we are adults here and responsible for our own actions, was the base for dealing with stress. I came from a family of addicts (smoking, alcohol, food, etc) and never really learned good stress management skills. Again, I am not blaming my background, but sharing how it shaped the man I became. Not to mention that we seem to have a predisposition for obesity in my family.
Nature vs. nurture? Perhaps a little of both. We are shaped by the environments in which we grow up.
What I did realize is that I did have control over it and could change it. It was within the realm of possibility for me to lose all the weight. I did not have to live on the legacy of addictive and poor behaviors I grew up with.0 -
HappyCampr1 wrote: »I may stop logging one day (been in maintenance just over a year), but I know I'll need to keep weighing myself regularly forever. The scale is my truth-meter and my security blanket in this regard. I do wish you luck in your mindfulness.
I do absolutely get that believe me. 18 months of psychotherapy has given me some confidence to try this. I'm not claiming to know the correct way just sharing experience. Each to their own.
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benzieboxx wrote: »Love it. You have a serious way with words! Coworkers love to throw in their two cents when it comes to weight loss. I definitely know that first hand.
Thanks Benzie. I only wish it ended with coworkers! People at the bus stop loving to contribute to my losing weight as well. "Oh you should stop now".0 -
Maybe so, but that's very different from saying that "the biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people." Giving up hope isn't really other people's fault, is it?msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
My biggest problem was me. Period. End of story. Even if I wanted to blame the influence of other people, I'd still have been the problem.
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Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.
Agreed.
One of the hardest but most rewarding challenges in life is figuring out who you are, what you stand for and what it means to be actually true to yourself.
Ideas are infectious. Just like disease. And like disease we need measures to prevent against them
If only we were so immune to the ideas of others the world wouldn't have so many examples of destructive ideology scattered across time.
But we do - we have philosophy, informed debate, critical thinking, deductive reasoning, CBT and a whole host of measures to assess the importance and value (or not) of the opinion of others or rid ourselves of unhelpful programming. On an individual level this is a skill that can be learned. We do not have to be victims of circumstance.
Would we find it acceptable to let someone into our house and just sit back and allow them to trash the place? No. We would escort them promptly to the front door and inform them they were no longer welcome unless they showed some manners.
And so it is with our minds. We get to control what goes on in our minds so we ultimately have power, not other people. Some people learn these techniques unconsciously, others must learn it consciously.
It is not other people who are the problem and that is a great thing...
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It's good we are all sharing our opinions and experiences. Whether we agree with one another or not, it is good knowledge. I had to learn to be open-minded through this whole experience or I would never had been able to make the changes that I did.0
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arditarose wrote: »Yeah, I don't completely agree with this either. People eat cake, it is polite to offer some to others. It's up for me to decide if I can have it that day.
A lot of what the OP said is true, but I also don't completely agree with everything. People bringing treats to work is a long tradition in the work place and it's only natural to offer some to everyone. I am also guilty of this and regularly bring treats and offer them to everyone. However, I, and I alone, have to make the decision each and every time whether or not to indulge. Like the OP, I usually pass on the store-bought stuff, but when the homemade stuff comes in, I take a little more time to weigh (pun intended) the decision of whether or not to partake.
I also don't often get "free advice." I don't know if it's the circles I travel in or if it is something else, but people haven't tried to give me weight loss advice at any time throughout my loss. I am often asked for advice though but I don't usually give it, unless it's only to say "eat less, move more." Weight loss is very very personal and what works for me won't necessarily work for someone else, and vice versa, so I try to just stay out of dispensing advice of any kind in my normal day to day life.0 -
msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
I never wanted to be over 400 pounds. I dreamed of the day I would become "normal". I just didn't have the skills/tools at the time to do it. Part of the issue, and I do agree that we are adults here and responsible for our own actions, was the base for dealing with stress. I came from a family of addicts (smoking, alcohol, food, etc) and never really learned good stress management skills. Again, I am not blaming my background, but sharing how it shaped the man I became. Not to mention that we seem to have a predisposition for obesity in my family.
Nature vs. nurture? Perhaps a little of both. We are shaped by the environments in which we grow up.
What I did realize is that I did have control over it and could change it. It was within the realm of possibility for me to lose all the weight. I did not have to live on the legacy of addictive and poor behaviors I grew up with.
Thank you! Yes, you get it. I guess I didn't feel I'd need to go into all this depth here but you have done it so eloquently for me. Obesity "runs" in my family as well.
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Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.
Agreed.
One of the hardest but most rewarding challenges in life is figuring out who you are, what you stand for and what it means to be actually true to yourself.
Ideas are infectious. Just like disease. And like disease we need measures to prevent against them
If only we were so immune to the ideas of others the world wouldn't have so many examples of destructive ideology scattered across time.
But we do - we have philosophy, informed debate, critical thinking, deductive reasoning, CBT and a whole host of measures to assess the importance and value (or not) of the opinion of others or rid ourselves of unhelpful programming. On an individual level this is a skill that can be learned. We do not have to be victims of circumstance.
Would we find it acceptable to let someone into our house and just sit back and allow them to trash the place? No. We would escort them promptly to the front door and inform them they were no longer welcome unless they showed some manners.
And so it is with our minds. We get to control what goes on in our minds so we ultimately have power, not other people. Some people learn these techniques unconsciously, others must learn it consciously.
It is not other people who are the problem and that is a great thing...
Yes absolutely but for some of us is can take a lot of therapy and money to realise this. I know other people aren't the whole problem but if those closest to you are more supportive I think the whole thing gets easier. People can and do still knock me though.
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NikiChicken wrote: »arditarose wrote: »Yeah, I don't completely agree with this either. People eat cake, it is polite to offer some to others. It's up for me to decide if I can have it that day.
A lot of what the OP said is true, but I also don't completely agree with everything. People bringing treats to work is a long tradition in the work place and it's only natural to offer some to everyone. I am also guilty of this and regularly bring treats and offer them to everyone. However, I, and I alone, have to make the decision each and every time whether or not to indulge. Like the OP, I usually pass on the store-bought stuff, but when the homemade stuff comes in, I take a little more time to weigh (pun intended) the decision of whether or not to partake.
I also don't often get "free advice." I don't know if it's the circles I travel in or if it is something else, but people haven't tried to give me weight loss advice at any time throughout my loss. I am often asked for advice though but I don't usually give it, unless it's only to say "eat less, move more." Weight loss is very very personal and what works for me won't necessarily work for someone else, and vice versa, so I try to just stay out of dispensing advice of any kind in my normal day to day life.
I concur. It's only here or my website that I would "offer" advice. It's generally not welcome and people believe a lot of the things they read about foods being evil or this fad diet or that one. If I'm completely honest I spend most of my life trying to avoid people finding out about my weight loss.0 -
DeguelloTex wrote: »
Maybe so, but that's very different from saying that "the biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people." Giving up hope isn't really other people's fault, is it?msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
My biggest problem was me. Period. End of story. Even if I wanted to blame the influence of other people, I'd still have been the problem.
Makes sense. My biggest problem was me as well, but I needed to understand how I got there in order to make changes, and not just temporary ones (like going on a diet), but ones which would be sustainable.
You're right, blaming others or not, you would still have the problem. Which is why you didn't use it as a crutch or excuse to stay the same way.
As to giving up hope, I don't know where I stand on that. Our pasts do have an impact on our future. My father was fatalistic and even suicidal and I find that behavior in myself at times (and others in the family). However, blaming him doesn't fix the issue, but understanding why he was and how to overcome it is helpful, for me at least.
I guess for everyone the path is different. Some of us focus on the past in order to understand how not to make the same mistakes. Others just disregard the past and move forward.
At the end of the day it is our responsibility as adults to put our own health first, right?0 -
While I agree with those saying adults are responsible for their own decisions (!), it seems to me that MFP forums ought to be one place that a person could vent about daily irritations along the weight-loss, weight-gain, or weight-maintenance path . . . even adding a bit of hyperbole. Others' remarks, particularly when they fall into standard, repeated (ad infinitum) patterns, can be an irritation. Each of us has different hot buttons, but I'll bet we all have some.
Besides, OP writes very amusingly, and I appreciate that. For example:....(snips)....
Is this now like Alcoholics Anonymous? Have I got you as my mentor? Do I ring you at 3am crying about the Jaffa cakes calling me from the kitchen cupboard? Will we be found the two of us in a cardboard box down an alleyway with empty multipacks of crisps strewn across the floor if we fall off the wagon and have one too many biscuits?
Entertaining!0 -
Yes. That's been my point since my first post in this thread.msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Maybe so, but that's very different from saying that "the biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people." Giving up hope isn't really other people's fault, is it?msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
My biggest problem was me. Period. End of story. Even if I wanted to blame the influence of other people, I'd still have been the problem.
Makes sense. My biggest problem was me as well, but I needed to understand how I got there in order to make changes, and not just temporary ones (like going on a diet), but ones which would be sustainable.
You're right, blaming others or not, you would still have the problem. Which is why you didn't use it as a crutch or excuse to stay the same way.
As to giving up hope, I don't know where I stand on that. Our pasts do have an impact on our future. My father was fatalistic and even suicidal and I find that behavior in myself at times (and others in the family). However, blaming him doesn't fix the issue, but understanding why he was and how to overcome it is helpful, for me at least.
I guess for everyone the path is different. Some of us focus on the past in order to understand how not to make the same mistakes. Others just disregard the past and move forward.
At the end of the day it is our responsibility as adults to put our own health first, right?
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Absolutely...sadly we are all guilty of falling for it. Societies expectations. We all try to be what is expected of us. Engaged, marriage, buy a house then kids. All sorts of things.
Agreed.
One of the hardest but most rewarding challenges in life is figuring out who you are, what you stand for and what it means to be actually true to yourself.
Ideas are infectious. Just like disease. And like disease we need measures to prevent against them
If only we were so immune to the ideas of others the world wouldn't have so many examples of destructive ideology scattered across time.
But we do - we have philosophy, informed debate, critical thinking, deductive reasoning, CBT and a whole host of measures to assess the importance and value (or not) of the opinion of others or rid ourselves of unhelpful programming. On an individual level this is a skill that can be learned. We do not have to be victims of circumstance.
Would we find it acceptable to let someone into our house and just sit back and allow them to trash the place? No. We would escort them promptly to the front door and inform them they were no longer welcome unless they showed some manners.
And so it is with our minds. We get to control what goes on in our minds so we ultimately have power, not other people. Some people learn these techniques unconsciously, others must learn it consciously.
It is not other people who are the problem and that is a great thing...
Yes absolutely but for some of us is can take a lot of therapy and money to realise this. I know other people aren't the whole problem but if those closest to you are more supportive I think the whole thing gets easier. People can and do still knock me though.
No doubt. My intention is not to demean anyone's struggle which can be very real and very hard to overcome. The support and love of others can help tremendously in that regard.
I guess the core point is if the problem is other people then we have less control and less hope but if the problem is us then that is actually a good thing!
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All of this leads me nearly to the point of this post. The biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people. A friend, parent, partner or child who is not supportive of your goals is like dragging a heavy rock on a marathon. Talk to them. I am not suggesting you cut them out of your life but just make it clear how you feel. Tell them how badly you want to change and how they can support you. Communication is king. A supportive partner in this fight can make such a huge difference.
Completely disagree. The biggest problem in my life and success at weight loss has always been me. Other people are gonna do what they're gonna do, and if they're supportive, super, but if they're not? How I choose to react to not having my every want and need catered to by other people is what matters for my life and my success.
Ideas are indeed infectious. One particularly infectious mentality in society is a victim mentality.
Congrats on your impressive weight loss. Seriously. People aren't going to stop being annoying, though, so probably best to just learn how to navigate in a world where people aren't perfect and are annoying and care more about their own needs than your needs. What is not best is to use the fact that people are imperfect and annoying as something that gives you license to overeat. No one you blame for getting you depressed and overeating is going to take responsibility for that. And they shouldn't. Because how you react to your world isn't their responsibility, it's yours.
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DeguelloTex wrote: »
Yes. That's been my point since my first post in this thread.msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Maybe so, but that's very different from saying that "the biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people." Giving up hope isn't really other people's fault, is it?msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
My biggest problem was me. Period. End of story. Even if I wanted to blame the influence of other people, I'd still have been the problem.
Makes sense. My biggest problem was me as well, but I needed to understand how I got there in order to make changes, and not just temporary ones (like going on a diet), but ones which would be sustainable.
You're right, blaming others or not, you would still have the problem. Which is why you didn't use it as a crutch or excuse to stay the same way.
As to giving up hope, I don't know where I stand on that. Our pasts do have an impact on our future. My father was fatalistic and even suicidal and I find that behavior in myself at times (and others in the family). However, blaming him doesn't fix the issue, but understanding why he was and how to overcome it is helpful, for me at least.
I guess for everyone the path is different. Some of us focus on the past in order to understand how not to make the same mistakes. Others just disregard the past and move forward.
At the end of the day it is our responsibility as adults to put our own health first, right?
Then we agree one something!
BTW, are you a ZZ Top fan? I ask because your name is one of their albums... my dad loved them and played their old stuff all the time when I was growing up.... he passed away 5 years ago and I still listen to them too. Tres Hombres is my favorite album...0 -
Unsolicited opinion time: About 10 years ago, I got out of the obese BMI range and into the just-barely-overweight range. For me, that was pretty much goal. After a little while, I stopped logging and counting. One of my regular treats while losing the weight was frozen yogurt. I started adding sprinkles to it. Just a bit. I starting adding just a bit more mayo to my sandwiches. Just little things like that. I didn't go out and start eating everything in sight. I did not weigh myself.
My life also went through radical changes at the time. I ended up with a new relationship, a new job (I went from a food service job to working at a gym), a new social circle, and a new lifestyle. My clothes continued to fit me for the longest time. It didn't happen overnight, but I gained back all of the weight plus an additional surplus over the next few years. It was quite awhile before I allowed myself to realize just how much I had gained back, and then I guess I gave up, and it just snowballed. Plus, I was happy in my relationship, and he never cared about my weight, and my motivations for losing it at the time were mainly relating to dating since I was so young.
Whether you are thin or fat, you are still you. Wherever you are in life, you are still you. Always remember that. People think weight loss will make them a different person. It doesn't. Even if you lose 200 pounds, it doesn't. I am of the very strong opinion that those of us (and I am not sure if you are in this category, but I am) who have been obese since adolescence or very early adulthood or for most of our lives have a chronic and ongoing condition that needs lifetime management and vigilance if we have any hope of keeping weight off permanently, and even then, it's a crapshoot because that requires us to self-motivate each and every day no matter what is going on around us, and we aren't allowed to burn out.
And I don't care what anyone says - when you have a child who is overweight by 5, obese by 5th grade, and an adult who has been overweight or obese for 25 years of their life by the age of 30 and who has been weight cycling since the tween years - SOMETHING is different physiologically or psychologically. Yes, we eat too much. There's no doubt about that. But what drives that? SOMETHING does, and I don't think that SOMETHING, at this point, has a cure. It must be managed. Weighing and logging, for me, are going to have to be cornerstones of that management. I don't know any other methods to go about it.
I get not wanting to track and giving "normal" eating a try, but after months of not weighing yourself at all, I would wager that you might not like what the scale says. Kudos to you if I'm wrong.
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ZZ Top is one of the two reasons I use this username. I prefer their pre-synth/Eliminator sound, though. The market clearly disagrees with me, though.msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Yes. That's been my point since my first post in this thread.msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »
Maybe so, but that's very different from saying that "the biggest problem in your life and success at weight loss is other people." Giving up hope isn't really other people's fault, is it?msharrington315 wrote: »DeguelloTex wrote: »Being obese, imo, qualifies as dangerous and destructive.
I agree that being in an obese state can lead to dangerous health conditions. I should know, as I progressed from morbid obesity into super obesity I was gaining a list of co-morbities: pre-diabetic, sleep apnea, high blood pressure, risk of heart attack, gastric reflux...
I think what Jztime is referring to is the emotional / psychological loop you become trapped in when you are very obese, which is something that we learn early on. I can tell you that, at times, I really did not care any more about my health because I didn't feel like there was any hope for me. So, I did the one thing left that gave me comfort and pleasure: eat.
My biggest problem was me. Period. End of story. Even if I wanted to blame the influence of other people, I'd still have been the problem.
Makes sense. My biggest problem was me as well, but I needed to understand how I got there in order to make changes, and not just temporary ones (like going on a diet), but ones which would be sustainable.
You're right, blaming others or not, you would still have the problem. Which is why you didn't use it as a crutch or excuse to stay the same way.
As to giving up hope, I don't know where I stand on that. Our pasts do have an impact on our future. My father was fatalistic and even suicidal and I find that behavior in myself at times (and others in the family). However, blaming him doesn't fix the issue, but understanding why he was and how to overcome it is helpful, for me at least.
I guess for everyone the path is different. Some of us focus on the past in order to understand how not to make the same mistakes. Others just disregard the past and move forward.
At the end of the day it is our responsibility as adults to put our own health first, right?
Then we agree one something!
BTW, are you a ZZ Top fan? I ask because your name is one of their albums... my dad loved them and played their old stuff all the time when I was growing up.... he passed away 5 years ago and I still listen to them too. Tres Hombres is my favorite album...
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I have come across the same thing at work. It will be someone's birthday and they get really upset if you don't have a piece of cake or a cupcake. In some cases I have taken the offered food and just thrown it away when I get to my desk. Then no one is offended. Some people just don't take the word no too kindly.0
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People around you have the power that you give them. Ask yourself why you give them this power and why they are so influencing to you.
Why do you care what someone at a bus stop thinks of your weight loss?
You did what needed done, you lost all that weight. Be confident in your self and say to hell with those people and their opinions. Time to grow up and realize we are all on our own.
Other peoples opinions do NOT determine your value. Determine for yourself that what you are doing is right, and when someone's opinion differs, growl, snarl, and tell them to pound sand.0 -
While I agree with those saying adults are responsible for their own decisions (!), it seems to me that MFP forums ought to be one place that a person could vent about daily irritations along the weight-loss, weight-gain, or weight-maintenance path . . . even adding a bit of hyperbole. Others' remarks, particularly when they fall into standard, repeated (ad infinitum) patterns, can be an irritation. Each of us has different hot buttons, but I'll bet we all have some.
Besides, OP writes very amusingly, and I appreciate that. For example:....(snips)....
Is this now like Alcoholics Anonymous? Have I got you as my mentor? Do I ring you at 3am crying about the Jaffa cakes calling me from the kitchen cupboard? Will we be found the two of us in a cardboard box down an alleyway with empty multipacks of crisps strewn across the floor if we fall off the wagon and have one too many biscuits?
Entertaining!
Thank you. I am not worthy.0 -
afatpersonwholikesfood wrote: »Unsolicited opinion time: About 10 years ago, I got out of the obese BMI range and into the just-barely-overweight range. For me, that was pretty much goal. After a little while, I stopped logging and counting. One of my regular treats while losing the weight was frozen yogurt. I started adding sprinkles to it. Just a bit. I starting adding just a bit more mayo to my sandwiches. Just little things like that. I didn't go out and start eating everything in sight. I did not weigh myself.
My life also went through radical changes at the time. I ended up with a new relationship, a new job (I went from a food service job to working at a gym), a new social circle, and a new lifestyle. My clothes continued to fit me for the longest time. It didn't happen overnight, but I gained back all of the weight plus an additional surplus over the next few years. It was quite awhile before I allowed myself to realize just how much I had gained back, and then I guess I gave up, and it just snowballed. Plus, I was happy in my relationship, and he never cared about my weight, and my motivations for losing it at the time were mainly relating to dating since I was so young.
Whether you are thin or fat, you are still you. Wherever you are in life, you are still you. Always remember that. People think weight loss will make them a different person. It doesn't. Even if you lose 200 pounds, it doesn't. I am of the very strong opinion that those of us (and I am not sure if you are in this category, but I am) who have been obese since adolescence or very early adulthood or for most of our lives have a chronic and ongoing condition that needs lifetime management and vigilance if we have any hope of keeping weight off permanently, and even then, it's a crapshoot because that requires us to self-motivate each and every day no matter what is going on around us, and we aren't allowed to burn out.
And I don't care what anyone says - when you have a child who is overweight by 5, obese by 5th grade, and an adult who has been overweight or obese for 25 years of their life by the age of 30 and who has been weight cycling since the tween years - SOMETHING is different physiologically or psychologically. Yes, we eat too much. There's no doubt about that. But what drives that? SOMETHING does, and I don't think that SOMETHING, at this point, has a cure. It must be managed. Weighing and logging, for me, are going to have to be cornerstones of that management. I don't know any other methods to go about it.
I get not wanting to track and giving "normal" eating a try, but after months of not weighing yourself at all, I would wager that you might not like what the scale says. Kudos to you if I'm wrong.
Many support groups quote the mantra: people, places & enviroment
I was obese from a very young age also. There was a lot going on. Part of that was depression. That has now been resolved. I may fail, I have accepted that but I need to try.0
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