once fat, always fat
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Therealobi1 wrote: »VykkDraygoVPR wrote: »
From a calorie standpoint, sugar=sugar=sugar, no matter the source.I wish sidesteel to counter this argument.
Corn syrup= honey= sugar=??? plus documentary-'supersize me'. My argument here is fast food weight gain is hard to lose (possible but requires more effort). Not going into CICO.
Have you watched Supersize Me? Dude went from a healthy, lowish-calorie diet to cramming just as many calories into his face as he could of the most calorific items on McDonald's menu. That's not an indictment of the type of food he ate, it's CICO. He didn't have a hamburger and a salad (which would have equaled the calories he normally ate) but instead made himself sick overeating calorie-dense foods that he wasn't used to eating.
How about John Cisna, who lost 60 pounds eating only McDonald's food?
High school science teacher who lost 60 pounds eating McDonald's for every meal is now a brand ambassador for the company
Man loses 56 pounds after eating only McDonald's for six months
Please have a real picture and a real name before preaching 'truth'.
Thank you kindly!
And equally, please make sure your facts are not just propaganda before preaching "truth." I mean, how the hell could "fast food weight" be more difficult to burn? Does your body mark it with a stamp, and just skip it when it's looking for fuel?
"Ah, here is some fuel! Wait, no, it used to be a Big Mac! Can't burn that! Send it straight to the thighs!"
Ha. Exactly.
If you guys want to gang up to win an argument, do not worry, I concede defeat. Now have a little celebration.
@SideSteel any comments?
Maybe you can shine some light on this debate?
SideSteel only steps in when HE decides to, not on command. And when he does, has an interesting point of veiw (in 3 yrs I've been on MFP). This thread is doing just fine, with lots of good information--sit back and learn.....0 -
For me getting rid of the "fat" clothes has been the best motivator. There's no way I'm going to start buying larger sizes. Ever. With that said, I'm back after gaining 15 pounds, why? I was in Colorado, where, ahem, cannabis is legal. Don't judge me people, it was legal. And it was shocking to realize how quickly and easily the pounds added up. I had no self control. And for me it doesn't matter what you eat, it matters how much you eat, healthy or not. I consider this summer an interesting experiment, I prefer being clear headed and in control of my life and food choices. Being fit and thin is so much more fun. Why would I want to be fat again?0
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Look, quite frankly, your posts like this and your others in this thread, and the mistakes and lack of knowledge in them, are a big part of the reason it's so hard for so many people to lose weight in the first place, let alone keep it off.No, my Dear. This is not why people regain weight. They regain for all the reasons that other posters mention here, the main reason being : personal responsibility!
Read this:
Energy Sources
"Carbohydrates and fats are two of the three types of energy sources, the other being protein. All three sources must be processed and converted into energy before your body can use them. Carbohydrates are converted into energy the quickest, so the human body relies heavily on the easy access of stored carbohydrates as its main energy source. Fat isn’t as quickly available as carbohydrates; it must go through additional processes before being converted into energy. Protein contributes very little energy."
Your posts are wrong. Just flat out wrong. You're spreading misinformation and distracting from the facts. That carbs are used for quick energy doesn't mean that dietary fat won't be used for energy. It doesn't mean that body fat won't be used for energy in a deficit. It just doesn't. Your posts are affirmatively harmful to the extent they confuse people who are trying to learn how to lose weight and maintain that loss.
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No, don't agree.
I was fat...now I'm not. CICO works.0 -
I guess that's individual dear... I did maintain it for 9 years after losing 80lbs... Than pregnancy and back here again but not that bad at all0
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norafinnland wrote: »I guess that's individual dear... I did maintain it for 9 years after losing 80lbs... Than pregnancy and back here again but not that bad at all
I think people who lose pregnancy weight within a certain time frame should be excluded from the "regain" stats! I wonder if this group is already
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christinev297 wrote: »kommodevaran wrote: »daniwilford wrote: »I knew how and have been successful in losing large amounts of weight before, I remember distinctly the days I decided to gain the weight back again. The reasons were always mental! I was scared or I wanted comfort or I wanted convenience. I have adopted better coping mechanisms now. I have hope but not overconfidence.
I liked being slim, but not the lifestyle I had chosen to maintain that. I thought I had it all figured out, but no - I regained. I am learning new stuff every day. I hope I never stop being vigilant and I want to be open for that everything I think I know is wrong. Overconfidence is actually what scares me most.
Honestly I'd love some over confidence. No, I don't regularly put away a whole pizza plus a burger and wings in just one night, anymore, and I exercise regularly, but YES I still want more food. I exercise at an intensity that makes me wonder, oh crap, what happens when I can't do this anymore? It actually seems a bit precarious to me, hence why I stay reading MFP to hope I keep learning things to help maintain my loss
It's entirely possible to both lose and maintain without exercise - MFP is set up to help you do exactly that. The calorie deficit it gives you is before any exercise - which is why you (the general you/MFP user, not you specifically) are supposed to eat the majority of exercise calories back.
Personally I am completely unable to exercise at all right now - and maintaining my weight. I've lost weight without exercise, as well. It's just about maintaining the deficit, or the goal. I can understand the fear, because it's easy to get used to the habit of exercising and logging it in, but it's not necessary.
Very true. Though for me, it's less about the logging and calorie goals than it is about the taste buds, stomach, and all the emotional aspects mentioned in the previous quotes, plus some pretty fun ones like joy, familiarity, community, nostalgia... I suppose I just see where some of the other posters are coming from, where maintaining a weight loss isn't always this breezy, forgone conclusion for me. Reason I mentioned the exercise is, if I suddenly couldn't count on those, average of let's say 400 extra calories per day, that's some nomness gone right there - at least quantity wise, I think!
That's my worry too. I'd seriously struggle if I didn't have my exercises calories to fall back on
It's a mental thing. But try to remember that it can be done - and remember that anything can happen. You never know if something when you can't exercise, and you need to be mentally prepared for that. Knowing that you can still lose and/or maintain weight if that happens is important, even if it never does.
Yeah but the prospect terrifies me too. I honestly think I'd just be too hungry eating 400 less calories, and I'd end up gaining back some weight. Guaranteed. I just don't have that much willpower.0 -
I got a few notifications that I was tagged in this thread and asked to comment. I haven't gone through all of the replies yet so if there's something specific other than the thread topic please let me know.
The short version is that there are a number of responses to weight loss that collectively make it very easy for us to regain weight. Energy expenditure tends to go down, Hunger tends to go up.
And statistically, successful weight loss followed by weight maintenance paints a grim picture.
But this absolutely doesn't mean that each individual can't succeed.
I can tell you this, if you don't believe in yourself and you don't try to begin with, THEN you're doomed for failure.
To those who tagged me, Let me know if there was something specific you wanted my opinion on.0 -
I got a few notifications that I was tagged in this thread and asked to comment. I haven't gone through all of the replies yet so if there's something specific other than the thread topic please let me know.
The short version is that there are a number of responses to weight loss that collectively make it very easy for us to regain weight. Energy expenditure tends to go down, Hunger tends to go up.
And statistically, successful weight loss followed by weight maintenance paints a grim picture.
But this absolutely doesn't mean that each individual can't succeed.
I can tell you this, if you don't believe in yourself and you don't try to begin with, THEN you're doomed for failure.
To those who tagged me, Let me know if there was something specific you wanted my opinion on.
Definitely my experience. When I was so sure I would never gain the weight back, I definitely didn't account for that... but it happened. Got close to my goal, increased my calories, and got hungrier than I ever was when I was losing. I never realized that it could happen until it did... still haven't failed though!0 -
Of course, good nutrition is always best. I'm not quite that, um, unnutritious.VykkDraygoVPR wrote: »You can eat the "dirtiest", least balanced diet and still lose weight if you eat fewer calories than your body uses.
One of my exes was like this. Her diet consisted mainly of frozen bean burritos, cake icing (she'd buy cans of it and eat it with a spoon), fried pickles, and baked potatoes floating in butter and sour cream. She was only about 95 lbs.
So not healthy, though. Would not reccomend.
However, if the only way to lose weight were to "eat clean", I'd never lose weight. It's about balance and compromise.
I'm making healthier nutritional choices. They aren't always great but I need to work with what I can sustain long term. It has to be about the long term.
I want this to be the last time I lose weight. I need to be able to work in the occasional pizza or hamburger in order to stick with my calorie goals and I can do that within the macros.
I hope to be someone who doesn't regain all of the weight. Been there, done that.
This time, I'm only eating foods that I like. That's what's working for me. I like many nutritious things, and I work them into my day, but I also eat things that would make "clean" eaters cringe.
People need to find what works for them. If a super-nutritious diet is what someone likes and it works for them, that's wonderful and I wish I were like that. However, I'm not. I'm me and I need to find what works for me.
^^^This, for me x10000 -
I agree no one goes from fat to skinny and becomes like a skinny person who has never been fat. Your whole life will be a battle. Youll have to fight the urge to eat certain foods and to not eat too much. Some people in order to maintain must count calories there entire lives. There never going to be like their skinny or normal weight friend who doesnt have to think about any of these things. Youll always have a huge appetite, be constantly hungry, and just plain miserable. Maybe this isn't true but it feels that way for me. Ive lost 60 pounds and need maybe 20 more to be a normal bmi, but im constantly hungry even though im eating like 1800 calories im so *kitten* hungry.0
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@synacious " I'm 30 now and I weigh 118 pounds; my body looks the best it ever has in my life. Do I deprive myself? No. Yesterday I had half of a pumpkin spice donut, half of an apple cinnamon donut, half of a jelly donut, and a hamburger with BBQ sauce and french fries. I enjoyed every bite, but I know I can't eat like that every single day unless I'm willing to get the physical activity it takes to burn that off or maintain my weight. I still ended up losing two pounds this week when my goal is only half a pound per week. I didn't mean to, but I move around so much now that it just happened."
I weighed 115 until age 38, and then I slowly slowly gained. Up to to that point I ate whatever I wanted and the weight just melted off of me. I was always active too. So "age" is not necessarily starting at 30. Now, I can't even look at those things you mention in your comment. If I overeat one day, or eat something that has a tiny bit of more sodium or sugar, I gain 1-2 lbs that takes me 4-5 days to work off. I lift weights and do cardio 7 days a week. Have to do almost scientific efforts to lose the weight.
So as a conclusion, if one continues eating the stuff you mentioned, around a certain "age" one will gain back the weight without a doubt.
That's because you're gaining water weight... donuts or hamburgers won't make you gain weight as long as they fit your calories. Just saying.
I experienced first hand that the balance also counts. I cannot explain how, but the same caloric intake of "bad" food stays on more. Not to mention the increased cholesterol intake that just shortens one's life.
My point was really that we'd better watch out how and what we eat because at the end, you'll pay the piper.
Nope. As long as you're in a caloric deficit , weight comes off. No matter what. If you didn't lose weight, you weren't in a deficit. You need to weigh all solid food on a food scale to accurately verify caloric intake. All things in moderation, including cholesterol, and you're fine.
and as far as the piper goes, no one gets out alive, that's just how it goes. Enjoy the journey.
I wish sidesteel to counter this argument.
Corn syrup= honey= sugar=??? plus documentary-'supersize me'. My argument here is fast food weight gain is hard to lose (possible but requires more effort). Not going into CICO.
You tagged him, he was here, but even if he'd seen this silly post, he wouldn't have correlated your argument. Sugar is sugar, and a calorie deficit works.
No one is going to eat just fast food, all the time, and that wasn't the point of this thread (which you have now completely derailed). The point is that it is perfectly fine to eat fast food, sometimes, and perfectly fine to eat other foods like chips, or doughnuts, or cookies, sometimes. And still eat broccoli, and green peppers, and rice, and potatoes, and steak, etc. A well-rounded diet. In moderation. It's the calorie deficit that leads to weight loss. Period. It's the well-rounded part that leads to being healthy while losing weight.0 -
leslielosesit wrote: »I agree no one goes from fat to skinny and becomes like a skinny person who has never been fat. Your whole life will be a battle. Youll have to fight the urge to eat certain foods and to not eat too much. Some people in order to maintain must count calories there entire lives. There never going to be like their skinny or normal weight friend who doesnt have to think about any of these things. Youll always have a huge appetite, be constantly hungry, and just plain miserable. Maybe this isn't true but it feels that way for me. Ive lost 60 pounds and need maybe 20 more to be a normal bmi, but im constantly hungry even though im eating like 1800 calories im so *kitten* hungry.
You need to find the right combination of satiating foods for you. If you are eating a higher ratio of carbs, try a higher ratio of fats/proteins. Often that will be the answer.0 -
@synacious " I'm 30 now and I weigh 118 pounds; my body looks the best it ever has in my life. Do I deprive myself? No. Yesterday I had half of a pumpkin spice donut, half of an apple cinnamon donut, half of a jelly donut, and a hamburger with BBQ sauce and french fries. I enjoyed every bite, but I know I can't eat like that every single day unless I'm willing to get the physical activity it takes to burn that off or maintain my weight. I still ended up losing two pounds this week when my goal is only half a pound per week. I didn't mean to, but I move around so much now that it just happened."
I weighed 115 until age 38, and then I slowly slowly gained. Up to to that point I ate whatever I wanted and the weight just melted off of me. I was always active too. So "age" is not necessarily starting at 30. Now, I can't even look at those things you mention in your comment. If I overeat one day, or eat something that has a tiny bit of more sodium or sugar, I gain 1-2 lbs that takes me 4-5 days to work off. I lift weights and do cardio 7 days a week. Have to do almost scientific efforts to lose the weight.
So as a conclusion, if one continues eating the stuff you mentioned, around a certain "age" one will gain back the weight without a doubt.
That's because you're gaining water weight... donuts or hamburgers won't make you gain weight as long as they fit your calories. Just saying.
I experienced first hand that the balance also counts. I cannot explain how, but the same caloric intake of "bad" food stays on more. Not to mention the increased cholesterol intake that just shortens one's life.
My point was really that we'd better watch out how and what we eat because at the end, you'll pay the piper.
Nope. As long as you're in a caloric deficit , weight comes off. No matter what. If you didn't lose weight, you weren't in a deficit. You need to weigh all solid food on a food scale to accurately verify caloric intake. All things in moderation, including cholesterol, and you're fine.
and as far as the piper goes, no one gets out alive, that's just how it goes. Enjoy the journey.
I wish sidesteel to counter this argument.
Corn syrup= honey= sugar=??? plus documentary-'supersize me'. My argument here is fast food weight gain is hard to lose (possible but requires more effort). Not going into CICO.
You tagged him, he was here, but even if he'd seen this silly post, he wouldn't have correlated your argument. Sugar is sugar, and a calorie deficit works.
No one is going to eat just fast food, all the time, and that wasn't the point of this thread (which you have now completely derailed). The point is that it is perfectly fine to eat fast food, sometimes, and perfectly fine to eat other foods like chips, or doughnuts, or cookies, sometimes. And still eat broccoli, and green peppers, and rice, and potatoes, and steak, etc. A well-rounded diet. In moderation. It's the calorie deficit that leads to weight loss. Period. It's the well-rounded part that leads to being healthy while losing weight.
^ I agree with this.
Sugar is pretty much sugar. Replacing table sugar with a caloric equivalent in honey isn't going to accomplish anything meaningful.
I'm not sure how to respond to the fast food part. You accumulate fat when you chronically over consume calories. Once you've accumulated fat it's not as though your fat cells say "this excess fat over here was from fast food so I'm not going to give that up" and "but this fat over here was from bacon that I made at home, so I'll lose this fat first".
If that doesn't make sense then it's possible I'm not understanding the original claim.
Now I can think of reasons to limit fast food consumption but if you have a nutrient rich diet and your total calories aren't excessive then enjoying some on occasion isn't some sort of death sentence.
Food for thought:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17536194/0 -
blessingsfromabove721 wrote: »Taking an excerpt out of one of the big posts trending on here right now (the one about the 800lb man getting kicked out of the hospital), somebody posted a story on that thread about a girl who was very large and lost some weight but not in the healthy way. Anyways, basically what she said was that most people who start off fat, even if they lose the weight, will always be fat...no matter how hard they try. And basically she made the assumption that even if you do manage to keep the weight off for any length of time, you will have to eat a very low calorie diet and you will basically be miserable, sick and tired.
My question is: do you think this is true? Do you think the majority of us will regain the weight and as she called "once your fat, you'll always be fat"? Or do you think it all comes down to being informed about weight loss and maintenance?
it is true that only about 5% or so of people who lose weight will keep it off...it is not true that you have to eat very low calories and be miserable though. I consume about 3,000 calories per day for my maintenance.
the reason people tend to put weight back on is because they don't really adopt a healthier lifestyle in general...people talk a good talk about "lifestyle change" or whatever...but most people fail at actually implementing that...they lose weight and then they're "done" and they go back to "normal" eating habits, stop exercising, etc. they fail to actually implement any kind of true change of lifestyle. you can't go back to old dietary and exercise (or lack thereof) habits and expect the maintain your weight...there has to be a new normal.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »blessingsfromabove721 wrote: »Taking an excerpt out of one of the big posts trending on here right now (the one about the 800lb man getting kicked out of the hospital), somebody posted a story on that thread about a girl who was very large and lost some weight but not in the healthy way. Anyways, basically what she said was that most people who start off fat, even if they lose the weight, will always be fat...no matter how hard they try. And basically she made the assumption that even if you do manage to keep the weight off for any length of time, you will have to eat a very low calorie diet and you will basically be miserable, sick and tired.
My question is: do you think this is true? Do you think the majority of us will regain the weight and as she called "once your fat, you'll always be fat"? Or do you think it all comes down to being informed about weight loss and maintenance?
it is true that only about 5% or so of people who lose weight will keep it off...it is not true that you have to eat very low calories and be miserable though. I consume about 3,000 calories per day for my maintenance.
the reason people tend to put weight back on is because they don't really adopt a healthier lifestyle in general...people talk a good talk about "lifestyle change" or whatever...but most people fail at actually implementing that...they lose weight and then they're "done" and they go back to "normal" eating habits, stop exercising, etc. they fail to actually implement any kind of true change of lifestyle. you can't go back to old dietary and exercise (or lack thereof) habits and expect the maintain your weight...there has to be a new normal.
One of the things she said in that article was about losing weight quickly, and also feeling like she was starving. As wolfman says, weight loss and then maintenance need to be a learning process and a lifestyle change. Rush that at your own risk.
When someone wants to become proficient at something (a sport, playing an instrument) they don't just read the instructions and start, and suddenly they know what they're doing and do it well. They learn how, take lessons, and practice, practice, practice. Sometimes they have losses, and failures. To become truly good at it, they fight through all the challenges until they know fully well all the ins and outs of their (sport or instrument). This is the dedication it takes to become successful at long-term weight loss and maintenance. Every day is another chance to learn more, try again, continue to work to become successful. There is no end-game - there is just the long, continuing road of success.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »it is true that only about 5% or so of people who lose weight will keep it off...it is not true that you have to eat very low calories and be miserable though. I consume about 3,000 calories per day for my maintenance.
the reason people tend to put weight back on is because they don't really adopt a healthier lifestyle in general...people talk a good talk about "lifestyle change" or whatever...but most people fail at actually implementing that...they lose weight and then they're "done" and they go back to "normal" eating habits, stop exercising, etc. they fail to actually implement any kind of true change of lifestyle. you can't go back to old dietary and exercise (or lack thereof) habits and expect the maintain your weight...there has to be a new normal.
@cwolfman13 - I'm going to correct that bolded statistic here, not to be a jerk but just to offer clarification. I know you know I'm not doing it to pick on you specifically, because that 5% figure gets quoted all over the place.
The study that gave rise to that 5% success estimation was done way back in 1959, and would not have been handled in the same way today. That study just isn't relevant thanks to methodological issues and our improved understanding of how to assess what's going on with weight loss.
Currently it appears that a more accurate statistic reflecting the percentage of folks who will keep weight off after losing it is 20%.
AND...there's been some solid data to indicate that if you can succeed at maintaining weight loss for 2 years, you can reduce your risk of subsequent regain by nearly 50%. That's truly encouraging.
The National Weight Control Registry is now tracking data for over 10,000 persons who have succeeded in maintaining a weight loss of at least 30 pounds for at least one year - and they've been doing it long enough to offer all of us some really excellent information about the characteristics of those who succeed.
So - 20% overall success is still scary-low, but it's a heck of a lot better than 5%, and with the information coming to us from the Registry, we can hope to see that 20% increase even further.
Thank you. This is great info.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »it is true that only about 5% or so of people who lose weight will keep it off...it is not true that you have to eat very low calories and be miserable though. I consume about 3,000 calories per day for my maintenance.
the reason people tend to put weight back on is because they don't really adopt a healthier lifestyle in general...people talk a good talk about "lifestyle change" or whatever...but most people fail at actually implementing that...they lose weight and then they're "done" and they go back to "normal" eating habits, stop exercising, etc. they fail to actually implement any kind of true change of lifestyle. you can't go back to old dietary and exercise (or lack thereof) habits and expect the maintain your weight...there has to be a new normal.
@cwolfman13 - I'm going to correct that bolded statistic here, not to be a jerk but just to offer clarification. I know you know I'm not doing it to pick on you specifically, because that 5% figure gets quoted all over the place.
The study that gave rise to that 5% success estimation was done way back in 1959, and would not have been handled in the same way today. That study just isn't relevant thanks to methodological issues and our improved understanding of how to assess what's going on with weight loss.
Currently it appears that a more accurate statistic reflecting the percentage of folks who will keep weight off after losing it is 20%.
AND...there's been some solid data to indicate that if you can succeed at maintaining weight loss for 2 years, you can reduce your risk of subsequent regain by nearly 50%. That's truly encouraging.
The National Weight Control Registry is now tracking data for over 10,000 persons who have succeeded in maintaining a weight loss of at least 30 pounds for at least one year - and they've been doing it long enough to offer all of us some really excellent information about the characteristics of those who succeed.
So - 20% overall success is still scary-low, but it's a heck of a lot better than 5%, and with the information coming to us from the Registry, we can hope to see that 20% increase even further.
Even if we look at a newer study - it's still based on statistics, and does nothing to predict the outcome for any of us. Think about it, if you live to be 80, you'll have a much bigger chance to be 100, than if you die at 75.
I wish ideas like "the body wants to", "the body remembers" etc could go away.0 -
Its very easy for me to gain weight. And my weight crept up over time. So I'm losing again. This time I don't intend on letting it get out of hand because the stakes are MUCH higher than they were when I was 19.0
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