Isagenix, Science or Woo?
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Woowoowoowoowoo - the sound of an emergency siren warning you to stay clear.0
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Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
Or people can be shown that they don't need to hand over large sums of money for a product which does nothing that a normal calorie deficit would do.0 -
It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
It is woo if they are making claims that lure people into buying a product when they can show no real evidence that their product does what they claim. And by evidence I mean real data, preferably controlled, blinded, and peer reviewed, not just testimonials.0 -
Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.0 -
If "woo" mean complete marketing BS and scam, then woo it is.0
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My sister-in-law is into Isagenix. She lost about ten pounds on it. She insisted that I should try it, and she gave me a bunch of products.
I'm highly allergic to one of the substances in it (hospitalization on Boxing Day last year as a result of it). I had to get the Canadian Food Inspection Agency involved in my quest to determine what it was that I was allergic to. The investigation indicated that the product label was correct and wasn't missing any ingredients. Still, I don't trust it. Something went very, very wrong with my first shake. I have no idea what I reacted so badly to.0 -
Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
Or people can be shown that they don't need to hand over large sums of money for a product which does nothing that a normal calorie deficit would do.
Oh, I wouldn't do it. But for some, the very act of payig for the weight loss aid might be the mental push required to stay with it. After all, physically losing weight is about CICO but the mental part is more complicated. It wouldn't work for you and I but that's not to say it won't work for someone else. Removing a possible path to weight loss isn't very supportive.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.
The mental aspect of weight loss can be as if not more important than the physical aspect.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.
The mental aspect of weight loss can be as if not more important than the physical aspect.
So are you saying the mental aspect outweighs the fact that there is little to support the claims on the website?
Do you think it is legitimate to describe this product as a "miracle"? Do you think it's right for a company to sell over-priced protein powder to people who are desperate to lose weight?0 -
Lol, Isagenix is not a pyramid scheme. It's called network marketing. When I lived in Thailand I met a few guys in their thirties who made their fortune from network marketing.
Now, does it work? IMO, a diet rich in vegetables, fruits and lean meats is a better choice. Want to get rid of toxins? Go on a juice cleanse instead. Most of this stuff hasn't even been tested yet. We don't know the long-term effects yet, or if it even works or not.
Network marketing and MLM/Pyramid are used interchangeably. They mean the same thing....and a juice cleanse does absolutely nothing.
Ahem....
Just wanted to point out-
Pyramid Scheme- Get people to spend money and sign up and recruit others, WITH NO ACTUAL PRODUCT. PURE money-shuffling.
MLM- A pyramid scheme format, but instead, they sell a physical product.
Network Marketing is the same as MLM. ^
Again, the only difference being that there is an actual product.
Dont' get me started on "direct sales" and the like.
Essentially though, yes, if the product was a stand-alone great product then all the money-shuffling would go towards the product and not upstream.
The only companies i trust that sell in this fashion are: Tupperware, Avon, and Mary Kay. Only because i know that the amount of money their distributors actually make off of their products is very very little and they have to really HUSTLE to make even a few hundos.
Fitness and health supplements on the other hand....0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »Lol, Isagenix is not a pyramid scheme. It's called network marketing. When I lived in Thailand I met a few guys in their thirties who made their fortune from network marketing.
Now, does it work? IMO, a diet rich in vegetables, fruits and lean meats is a better choice. Want to get rid of toxins? Go on a juice cleanse instead. Most of this stuff hasn't even been tested yet. We don't know the long-term effects yet, or if it even works or not.
Network marketing and MLM/Pyramid are used interchangeably. They mean the same thing....and a juice cleanse does absolutely nothing.
Ahem....
Just wanted to point out-
Pyramid Scheme- Get people to spend money and sign up and recruit others, WITH NO ACTUAL PRODUCT. PURE money-shuffling.
MLM- A pyramid scheme format, but instead, they sell a physical product.
Network Marketing is the same as MLM. ^
Again, the only difference being that there is an actual product.
Dont' get me started on "direct sales" and the like.
Essentially though, yes, if the product was a stand-alone great product then all the money-shuffling would go towards the product and not upstream.
The only companies i trust that sell in this fashion are: Tupperware, Avon, and Mary Kay. Only because i know that the amount of money their distributors actually make off of their products is very very little and they have to really HUSTLE to make even a few hundos.
Fitness and health supplements on the other hand....
Ahem...if you notice...I didn't add the word "scheme" to the word Pyramid making them the same thing. A MLM is pyramid marketing.0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »Lol, Isagenix is not a pyramid scheme. It's called network marketing. When I lived in Thailand I met a few guys in their thirties who made their fortune from network marketing.
Now, does it work? IMO, a diet rich in vegetables, fruits and lean meats is a better choice. Want to get rid of toxins? Go on a juice cleanse instead. Most of this stuff hasn't even been tested yet. We don't know the long-term effects yet, or if it even works or not.
Network marketing and MLM/Pyramid are used interchangeably. They mean the same thing....and a juice cleanse does absolutely nothing.
Ahem....
Just wanted to point out-
Pyramid Scheme- Get people to spend money and sign up and recruit others, WITH NO ACTUAL PRODUCT. PURE money-shuffling.
MLM- A pyramid scheme format, but instead, they sell a physical product.
Network Marketing is the same as MLM. ^
Again, the only difference being that there is an actual product.
Dont' get me started on "direct sales" and the like.
Essentially though, yes, if the product was a stand-alone great product then all the money-shuffling would go towards the product and not upstream.
The only companies i trust that sell in this fashion are: Tupperware, Avon, and Mary Kay. Only because i know that the amount of money their distributors actually make off of their products is very very little and they have to really HUSTLE to make even a few hundos.
Fitness and health supplements on the other hand....
Ahem...if you notice...I didn't add the word "scheme" to the word Pyramid making them the same thing. A MLM is pyramid marketing.
Kay. But to suggest those terms are interchangeable when "pyramid" is generally used only when referring to a pyramid scheme... well... potato potato0 -
An MLM is a pyramid scheme with a product to sell to make it barely legal.
If you want to try it, go ahead, but it's not going to do anything more for you than any other weight loss shake out there. If you're going to spend money on losing weight, look for a class that teaches you portion control. That will help you develop the tools to keep the weight off for the future.0 -
Lol, Isagenix is not a pyramid scheme. It's called network marketing. When I lived in Thailand I met a few guys in their thirties who made their fortune from network marketing.
Yeah, there's some dudes in Colombia who made their fortunes from "network marketing" too. LOL. Call it whatever you want, it's still a pyramid scheme.Now, does it work? IMO, a diet rich in vegetables, fruits and lean meats is a better choice. Want to get rid of toxins? Go on a juice cleanse instead. Most of this stuff hasn't even been tested yet. We don't know the long-term effects yet, or if it even works or not.
Your body is perfectly equipped to get rid of toxins already. A juice cleanse does absolutely nothing beneficial other than make money for the people who sell it. The challenge has been issued over and over again, yet I still have not seen one person able to name even one specific "toxin" that's reduced/eliminated by cleanse/detox diets or 'supplements'. It's all woo and the only people who advocate for it are the people making money selling it.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.
The mental aspect of weight loss can be as if not more important than the physical aspect.
So are you saying the mental aspect outweighs the fact that there is little to support the claims on the website?
Do you think it is legitimate to describe this product as a "miracle"? Do you think it's right for a company to sell over-priced protein powder to people who are desperate to lose weight?
It's not my place to judge the ethics of a company. I don't even I know what the product is. But the mental aspect is a big one. If it's not dangerous, it remains on the table. It might not be the best choice but I'm not going to poopoo people potential tools.
If the OP asked what worked for me, I'd say eating at a deficit and but of exercise for added benefits. No program that cost me money would work for me personall becuase I'm notoriously cheap (hence eating less food and walking) but I cant say definitively what will and what won't work. I mean, every type of weight loss is statistically doomed to fail for the vast majority, doesn't mean I'll discourage people from making the effort. Heck, this product might be nothing but snake oil but there is a vast number of studies that support the existence of what is called the plecebo effect. I'm not going to argu against that sort of overwhelming science.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.
The mental aspect of weight loss can be as if not more important than the physical aspect.
So are you saying the mental aspect outweighs the fact that there is little to support the claims on the website?
Do you think it is legitimate to describe this product as a "miracle"? Do you think it's right for a company to sell over-priced protein powder to people who are desperate to lose weight?
It's not my place to judge the ethics of a company. I don't even I know what the product is. But the mental aspect is a big one. If it's not dangerous, it remains on the table. It might not be the best choice but I'm not going to poopoo people potential tools.
If the OP asked what worked for me, I'd say eating at a deficit and but of exercise for added benefits. No program that cost me money would work for me personall becuase I'm notoriously cheap (hence eating less food and walking) but I cant say definitively what will and what won't work. I mean, every type of weight loss is statistically doomed to fail for the vast majority, doesn't mean I'll discourage people from making the effort. Heck, this product might be nothing but snake oil but there is a vast number of studies that support the existence of what is called the plecebo effect. I'm not going to argu against that sort of overwhelming science.
So you're saying there is nothing a company could say, write, or do that you would feel comfortable objecting to?0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.
The mental aspect of weight loss can be as if not more important than the physical aspect.
So are you saying the mental aspect outweighs the fact that there is little to support the claims on the website?
Do you think it is legitimate to describe this product as a "miracle"? Do you think it's right for a company to sell over-priced protein powder to people who are desperate to lose weight?
It's not my place to judge the ethics of a company. I don't even I know what the product is. But the mental aspect is a big one. If it's not dangerous, it remains on the table. It might not be the best choice but I'm not going to poopoo people potential tools.
If the OP asked what worked for me, I'd say eating at a deficit and but of exercise for added benefits. No program that cost me money would work for me personall becuase I'm notoriously cheap (hence eating less food and walking) but I cant say definitively what will and what won't work. I mean, every type of weight loss is statistically doomed to fail for the vast majority, doesn't mean I'll discourage people from making the effort. Heck, this product might be nothing but snake oil but there is a vast number of studies that support the existence of what is called the plecebo effect. I'm not going to argu against that sort of overwhelming science.
So you're saying there is nothing a company could say, write, or do that you would feel comfortable objecting to?
Tough to do when you're trying your hardest to be the most supportive person on the forums. I don't have that title and never will but just as the odds are against me keeping the weight off, it won't stop me from trying.0 -
I see my sister in law, who is tiny (read 5'6" and 120 pounds) and in shape taking this and starving herself 2 days a week for the "cleanse days" .. she's looking more gaunt in my opinion but she says she's lost weight and "feels great with tons of energy!". I'm over here overweight and shaking my head thinking this girl has gone nuts! I'm trying to lose weight the best way I know how right now CICO with the help of meal replacement shakes because they don't tempt me to make something higher in calories and less filling. Yes, I know that I have to have a plan for when I'm done losing weight, but right now I want to get down another 20 pounds before I start the temptation. I have to make the lifestyle change of counting calories, eating right and exercising before I push myself to the point where I can't keep up with all the changes and slide. It seemed like WOO to me but wanted the opinion of people who have dedicated a good portion of their recent existence to diet and weight loss0
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janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.
The mental aspect of weight loss can be as if not more important than the physical aspect.
So are you saying the mental aspect outweighs the fact that there is little to support the claims on the website?
Do you think it is legitimate to describe this product as a "miracle"? Do you think it's right for a company to sell over-priced protein powder to people who are desperate to lose weight?
It's not my place to judge the ethics of a company. I don't even I know what the product is. But the mental aspect is a big one. If it's not dangerous, it remains on the table. It might not be the best choice but I'm not going to poopoo people potential tools.
If the OP asked what worked for me, I'd say eating at a deficit and but of exercise for added benefits. No program that cost me money would work for me personall becuase I'm notoriously cheap (hence eating less food and walking) but I cant say definitively what will and what won't work. I mean, every type of weight loss is statistically doomed to fail for the vast majority, doesn't mean I'll discourage people from making the effort. Heck, this product might be nothing but snake oil but there is a vast number of studies that support the existence of what is called the plecebo effect. I'm not going to argu against that sort of overwhelming science.
So you're saying there is nothing a company could say, write, or do that you would feel comfortable objecting to?
Tough to do when you're trying your hardest to be the most supportive person on the forums. I'm not and never will be but just the odds are against me for keeping the weight off, it won't stop me from trying.
I'm not understanding you. What, exactly, is tough to do?
Do you think being supportive extends to supporting any company that is attempting to profit off of people trying to lose weight? If this is what you're saying, I disagree. I think actual support of PEOPLE sometimes requires us to critique the companies that are attempting to profit off of them.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Science or woo? That's a potentially condescending question. It's only woo if it never works for anyone. We're all different and what doesn't work for one person might work for the next. Unless it's dangerous (also a bit subjective), then people will just have to try it to find out.
I don't think anyone is saying that this program won't work. Any program of caloric restriction should result in weight loss. The question is whether the specific claims made for this product (that it is a "miracle," that it will work better than a cheaper whey protein shake, that it will "regulate digestion," etc) are backed up by any evidence.
The mental aspect of weight loss can be as if not more important than the physical aspect.
So are you saying the mental aspect outweighs the fact that there is little to support the claims on the website?
Do you think it is legitimate to describe this product as a "miracle"? Do you think it's right for a company to sell over-priced protein powder to people who are desperate to lose weight?
It's not my place to judge the ethics of a company. I don't even I know what the product is. But the mental aspect is a big one. If it's not dangerous, it remains on the table. It might not be the best choice but I'm not going to poopoo people potential tools.
If the OP asked what worked for me, I'd say eating at a deficit and but of exercise for added benefits. No program that cost me money would work for me personall becuase I'm notoriously cheap (hence eating less food and walking) but I cant say definitively what will and what won't work. I mean, every type of weight loss is statistically doomed to fail for the vast majority, doesn't mean I'll discourage people from making the effort. Heck, this product might be nothing but snake oil but there is a vast number of studies that support the existence of what is called the plecebo effect. I'm not going to argu against that sort of overwhelming science.
So you're saying there is nothing a company could say, write, or do that you would feel comfortable objecting to?
Tough to do when you're trying your hardest to be the most supportive person on the forums. I'm not and never will be but just the odds are against me for keeping the weight off, it won't stop me from trying.
I'm not understanding you. What, exactly, is tough to do?
Do you think being supportive extends to supporting any company that is attempting to profit off of people trying to lose weight? If this is what you're saying, I disagree. I think actual support of PEOPLE sometimes requires us to critique the companies that are attempting to profit off of them.
You misunderstand me. I'm supporting the person. Companies are just in it to make money and most aren't ethical enough to be straight forward. That would negatively impact their bottom line. I support the various ways that people seek to achieve their goals. This might be a part of one person's goal. I could provide some excellently done studies on the plecebo effect if that would be useful.
But I'm sorry, OP for entering into a derailment. I will stop now. Good luck with your goals, same to you janejellyroll!0
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