Daily goals: Sugar
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christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »All I can say if people choose to eat excess sugar over the recommended amounts then hope and pray that research never comes out proving it causes disease or medical conditions.
I'm not pro or against, and have zero interest in debating about sugar. I have an open mind and choose not to nitpick or mock those who believe sugar is not a necessary part of our diet.
I have noticed though, that not a week goes by where I don't read or hear the negative impact sugar can have. It cant all possibly be baseless. .
Everyone has they their own diet path they choose to follow, and if it works for them then who am I to judge.
and some of these negative health impacts on people who get adequate nutrition and hit their calories goals are…?
Not sure how you can say that you don't want to debate it, then come in here and debate it, and then make some kind of strange statement about "reading stuff" about how sugar is bad, and not even referencing how it is bad….
That's the thing, I read the headlines but have only ever skimmed the articles. What I'm hearing is on the TV or in our weekly/daily paper. I'm in Australia, and the last 6mths it's just been constantly mentioned, and never in a positive way, so much so that I almost switch off now. I've never researched on the internet, because as we all know, anyone can find links to back up what they want to hear.
I'm still on the fence, erring more to the lower sugar side. I am one of the people who are hoping and praying that years of excess carbs and sugars aren't going to come back and bite me on the *kitten*. And truthfully I am sick to death of seeing young obese kids and their parents shoving sugar laden foods and drinks down their gullets. That alone is enough to put me off. Yes i know activity level and calories play a part... But so does food choice.
As for the debating thing, It just doesn't interest me, I don't have the time or the energy to drag a thread on for 10+ pages with neither side backing down. It never goes anywhere and NO-ONE ever changes their mind, so i honestly don't see the point..
The ironic thing is, its the same fear mongering that occured in the 80s and 90s with fat... pretty much verbatim.
That's why I'm still on the fence.. But I'm erring on the side of caution and hopefully giving myself better odds of a longer healthier life.
But I can testify 100% that since I've switched to lower carbs my cravings and constant hunger have almost disappeared. This was the main reason I switched, because I was sick of always being hungry and the more carbs and sugars i ate, the more I wanted.. I was never satisfied. Yes, I realise they don't affect everyone the same.
I'm now on the same of calories I was struggling to stick to before but am much more satisfied and not counting down the hours and minutes til the next meal.
What i typically find with people that say they are hungry on carbs, is they tend to eat the wrong ones, more often or not because they didnt have much fiber. And since they transitioned to low carb, they are now limited on what they can choose from, which they then turn to more veggies.
To keep me full with 50% carbs, its fruits, veggies, greek yogurt, protein bagels, oatmeal and high fiber breads (arnold brand - US)
Fair call
When I look into Obese peoples shopping carts, they are often filled with what we call empty junk food carbs. If they chose the right foods maybe they wouldn't be constantly eating and craving the carb and sugar laden stuff, leading to eating too much, leading to obesity, leading to illness.
To be fair, i know a lot of obese and overfat people following low carb diets too. In fact, i know a lot of overfat and obese people following every dietary style.
LOL I can't argue with you there. I can only go by my own experience. I don't have any health/medical conditions so can't speak personally how low carb affects health.
Howeeeever I have read so many positive testimonials on the low carb boards from people who have reversed their health conditions following this way of life, it's hard to ignore.
Most health conditions can be reversed by weight loss alone because obesity is the biggest cause for many medical issues. If you want to see that, look at the opposite end of the spectrum and look at success stories from vegans/vegetarians. How you get their is more personal choice and we would all love to believe the plan we followed was the best possible one... and it was from a dietary adherence standpoint.0 -
cafeaulait7 wrote: »People should make sure they are getting their A1C levels checked at their doctor's each year. If you don't know much about your glucose levels (not just one fasting test a year, either), it's hard to say whether you need to care much about sugar or not. Being overweight is already one risk factor towards having to care about it.
I have to care about it, darnit. And I have an enormous sweet tooth, so believe me that I hate that I have to care. It came on so suddenly, too. Sucks.
ETA: I cross posted. Yep, I can eat apples still Cookies are different, and I have to limit those a whole lot more than apples. Even if they have the same grams of sugar.
Do you mean because you will overeat on the cookies and not on the apple?
I ask because the sugar in the apple is the same as the sugar in the cookie. Nutritionally they are different, though.
I mean because my glucose monitor shows that my BG gets too high after a cookie and doesn't after an apple, even at the same amount of carbs.I think around half of the population seem to be ables to eat a diet with added sugars and higher carbs. The rest should eat low carbohydrate or, at the very least, moderate carbohydrates.
Insulin resistance is thought to include prediabetes, Type 2 diabetes, PCOS, NAFLD, and Alzheimer's disease as well as other possible neurological diseases (like possibly MS and Parkinson's). Roughly half of North Americans will develop one of these health problems in their lifetime, and sugar intake, along with excessive carbs and obesity, is generally thought to contribute to those problems.
I thought I could eat sugars with no problem until suddenly I couldn't. I have a good mainly friend who loves her sweets and is just slightly overweight. Now in her mid 70s she as Alzheimer's. there was no way to reduction that back in the 80s when she was eating sugars with no apparent problems. I wonder if she could have turned back time and attempted to prevent her dementia with a low sugar diet if she would have... I would have changed things for myself.
In my mind, sugar's only real benefit for the average person is that it tastes good. It as no needed micronutrients and has the potential to contribute to IR problems, never mind the act that those with a higher sugar intake are more likely to develop certain cancers, have a more difficult time beating some cancers, and are more likely to develop CAD.
IMO, the only thing going for added sugars (or a diet high in carbs) is that tastes good. Sugar is a bit of a risk for the (apparently) healthy person, IMO.
Sugar is rarely identified as a problem... carbs are rarely identified as a problem..... obesity is highly identified to be the problem... and that is usually accompanied by lack of exercise and genetics....
Obesity can't be 'the problem' because non-obese people definitely get diabetes. Fit, non-obese people get diabetes. Obesity is a big risk factor for it, but it is not the only way to get diabetes, even Type II.
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christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »All I can say if people choose to eat excess sugar over the recommended amounts then hope and pray that research never comes out proving it causes disease or medical conditions.
I'm not pro or against, and have zero interest in debating about sugar. I have an open mind and choose not to nitpick or mock those who believe sugar is not a necessary part of our diet.
I have noticed though, that not a week goes by where I don't read or hear the negative impact sugar can have. It cant all possibly be baseless. .
Everyone has they their own diet path they choose to follow, and if it works for them then who am I to judge.
and some of these negative health impacts on people who get adequate nutrition and hit their calories goals are…?
Not sure how you can say that you don't want to debate it, then come in here and debate it, and then make some kind of strange statement about "reading stuff" about how sugar is bad, and not even referencing how it is bad….
That's the thing, I read the headlines but have only ever skimmed the articles. What I'm hearing is on the TV or in our weekly/daily paper. I'm in Australia, and the last 6mths it's just been constantly mentioned, and never in a positive way, so much so that I almost switch off now. I've never researched on the internet, because as we all know, anyone can find links to back up what they want to hear.
I'm still on the fence, erring more to the lower sugar side. I am one of the people who are hoping and praying that years of excess carbs and sugars aren't going to come back and bite me on the *kitten*. And truthfully I am sick to death of seeing young obese kids and their parents shoving sugar laden foods and drinks down their gullets. That alone is enough to put me off. Yes i know activity level and calories play a part... But so does food choice.
As for the debating thing, It just doesn't interest me, I don't have the time or the energy to drag a thread on for 10+ pages with neither side backing down. It never goes anywhere and NO-ONE ever changes their mind, so i honestly don't see the point..
The ironic thing is, its the same fear mongering that occured in the 80s and 90s with fat... pretty much verbatim.
That's why I'm still on the fence.. But I'm erring on the side of caution and hopefully giving myself better odds of a longer healthier life.
But I can testify 100% that since I've switched to lower carbs my cravings and constant hunger have almost disappeared. This was the main reason I switched, because I was sick of always being hungry and the more carbs and sugars i ate, the more I wanted.. I was never satisfied. Yes, I realise they don't affect everyone the same.
I'm now on the same of calories I was struggling to stick to before but am much more satisfied and not counting down the hours and minutes til the next meal.
What i typically find with people that say they are hungry on carbs, is they tend to eat the wrong ones, more often or not because they didnt have much fiber. And since they transitioned to low carb, they are now limited on what they can choose from, which they then turn to more veggies.
To keep me full with 50% carbs, its fruits, veggies, greek yogurt, protein bagels, oatmeal and high fiber breads (arnold brand - US)
Fair call
When I look into Obese peoples shopping carts, they are often filled with what we call empty junk food carbs. If they chose the right foods maybe they wouldn't be constantly eating and craving the carb and sugar laden stuff, leading to eating too much, leading to obesity, leading to illness.
To be fair, i know a lot of obese and overfat people following low carb diets too. In fact, i know a lot of overfat and obese people following every dietary style.
LOL I can't argue with you there. I can only go by my own experience. I don't have any health/medical conditions so can't speak personally how low carb affects health.
Howeeeever I have read so many positive testimonials on the low carb boards from people who have reversed their health conditions following this way of life, it's hard to ignore.
I'm sure that if you went on an anti-vaccine website you'd see lots of convincing testimonials too... or wheat belly type boards, or conspiracy theory boards... you know, built in bias??0 -
christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »All I can say if people choose to eat excess sugar over the recommended amounts then hope and pray that research never comes out proving it causes disease or medical conditions.
I'm not pro or against, and have zero interest in debating about sugar. I have an open mind and choose not to nitpick or mock those who believe sugar is not a necessary part of our diet.
I have noticed though, that not a week goes by where I don't read or hear the negative impact sugar can have. It cant all possibly be baseless. .
Everyone has they their own diet path they choose to follow, and if it works for them then who am I to judge.
and some of these negative health impacts on people who get adequate nutrition and hit their calories goals are…?
Not sure how you can say that you don't want to debate it, then come in here and debate it, and then make some kind of strange statement about "reading stuff" about how sugar is bad, and not even referencing how it is bad….
That's the thing, I read the headlines but have only ever skimmed the articles. What I'm hearing is on the TV or in our weekly/daily paper. I'm in Australia, and the last 6mths it's just been constantly mentioned, and never in a positive way, so much so that I almost switch off now. I've never researched on the internet, because as we all know, anyone can find links to back up what they want to hear.
I'm still on the fence, erring more to the lower sugar side. I am one of the people who are hoping and praying that years of excess carbs and sugars aren't going to come back and bite me on the *kitten*. And truthfully I am sick to death of seeing young obese kids and their parents shoving sugar laden foods and drinks down their gullets. That alone is enough to put me off. Yes i know activity level and calories play a part... But so does food choice.
As for the debating thing, It just doesn't interest me, I don't have the time or the energy to drag a thread on for 10+ pages with neither side backing down. It never goes anywhere and NO-ONE ever changes their mind, so i honestly don't see the point..
so you have no evidence to back up anything you are claiming?
As for obesity, too many calories leads to people being obese. Trying to single out one macronutrient as the source of the obesity epidemic is ridiculous.
So you don't have the time or energy to debate this, but you keep coming back to debate this? interesting concept...
As for your first and last sentence, re-read my last paragraph :huh: And i did indeed say calories are to blame also.
The fact that you're asking for "evidence" proves you didn't read my post correctly.
People on either side can post 1,000 links backing up their claims. But they will be poo pooed if they don't line up with whomever believes what. I've been around here long enough and seen enough sugar et al threads to know there is no point. people love their sugar and carbs (and I don't blame them), they will hang on to them for dear life.
Actually, you blamed parents shoveling sugar down their kids throats,and I did not see one word about calories in your quote.
People also love fats, but I don't you see you making spacious claims about fats being the cause of the obesity epidemic, but for some reason you are fixated on sugar; I wonder why that is?
For the record, the sugar is evil crew tend not to have 1000 links on their sides, they just have correlational links between sugar and X outcome, which when looked at in depth have no real correlation at all….0 -
christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »All I can say if people choose to eat excess sugar over the recommended amounts then hope and pray that research never comes out proving it causes disease or medical conditions.
I'm not pro or against, and have zero interest in debating about sugar. I have an open mind and choose not to nitpick or mock those who believe sugar is not a necessary part of our diet.
I have noticed though, that not a week goes by where I don't read or hear the negative impact sugar can have. It cant all possibly be baseless. .
Everyone has they their own diet path they choose to follow, and if it works for them then who am I to judge.
and some of these negative health impacts on people who get adequate nutrition and hit their calories goals are…?
Not sure how you can say that you don't want to debate it, then come in here and debate it, and then make some kind of strange statement about "reading stuff" about how sugar is bad, and not even referencing how it is bad….
That's the thing, I read the headlines but have only ever skimmed the articles. What I'm hearing is on the TV or in our weekly/daily paper. I'm in Australia, and the last 6mths it's just been constantly mentioned, and never in a positive way, so much so that I almost switch off now. I've never researched on the internet, because as we all know, anyone can find links to back up what they want to hear.
I'm still on the fence, erring more to the lower sugar side. I am one of the people who are hoping and praying that years of excess carbs and sugars aren't going to come back and bite me on the *kitten*. And truthfully I am sick to death of seeing young obese kids and their parents shoving sugar laden foods and drinks down their gullets. That alone is enough to put me off. Yes i know activity level and calories play a part... But so does food choice.
As for the debating thing, It just doesn't interest me, I don't have the time or the energy to drag a thread on for 10+ pages with neither side backing down. It never goes anywhere and NO-ONE ever changes their mind, so i honestly don't see the point..
The ironic thing is, its the same fear mongering that occured in the 80s and 90s with fat... pretty much verbatim.
That's why I'm still on the fence.. But I'm erring on the side of caution and hopefully giving myself better odds of a longer healthier life.
But I can testify 100% that since I've switched to lower carbs my cravings and constant hunger have almost disappeared. This was the main reason I switched, because I was sick of always being hungry and the more carbs and sugars i ate, the more I wanted.. I was never satisfied. Yes, I realise they don't affect everyone the same.
I'm now on the same of calories I was struggling to stick to before but am much more satisfied and not counting down the hours and minutes til the next meal.
What i typically find with people that say they are hungry on carbs, is they tend to eat the wrong ones, more often or not because they didnt have much fiber. And since they transitioned to low carb, they are now limited on what they can choose from, which they then turn to more veggies.
To keep me full with 50% carbs, its fruits, veggies, greek yogurt, protein bagels, oatmeal and high fiber breads (arnold brand - US)
Fair call
When I look into Obese peoples shopping carts, they are often filled with what we call empty junk food carbs. If they chose the right foods maybe they wouldn't be constantly eating and craving the carb and sugar laden stuff, leading to eating too much, leading to obesity, leading to illness.
To be fair, i know a lot of obese and overfat people following low carb diets too. In fact, i know a lot of overfat and obese people following every dietary style.
LOL I can't argue with you there. I can only go by my own experience. I don't have any health/medical conditions so can't speak personally how low carb affects health.
Howeeeever I have read so many positive testimonials on the low carb boards from people who have reversed their health conditions following this way of life, it's hard to ignore.
People reversed their health condition by losing weight, low carb had nothing to do with it. I dropped 30 pounds by eating carbs, and my blood work comes back nearly perfect every year.
You can also read positive testimonials on how raspberry ketones increase weight and fat loss, does that mean they work?
I woud caution using things that you read on inter web boards as gospel..
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christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »All I can say if people choose to eat excess sugar over the recommended amounts then hope and pray that research never comes out proving it causes disease or medical conditions.
I'm not pro or against, and have zero interest in debating about sugar. I have an open mind and choose not to nitpick or mock those who believe sugar is not a necessary part of our diet.
I have noticed though, that not a week goes by where I don't read or hear the negative impact sugar can have. It cant all possibly be baseless. .
Everyone has they their own diet path they choose to follow, and if it works for them then who am I to judge.
and some of these negative health impacts on people who get adequate nutrition and hit their calories goals are…?
Not sure how you can say that you don't want to debate it, then come in here and debate it, and then make some kind of strange statement about "reading stuff" about how sugar is bad, and not even referencing how it is bad….
That's the thing, I read the headlines but have only ever skimmed the articles. What I'm hearing is on the TV or in our weekly/daily paper. I'm in Australia, and the last 6mths it's just been constantly mentioned, and never in a positive way, so much so that I almost switch off now. I've never researched on the internet, because as we all know, anyone can find links to back up what they want to hear.
I'm still on the fence, erring more to the lower sugar side. I am one of the people who are hoping and praying that years of excess carbs and sugars aren't going to come back and bite me on the *kitten*. And truthfully I am sick to death of seeing young obese kids and their parents shoving sugar laden foods and drinks down their gullets. That alone is enough to put me off. Yes i know activity level and calories play a part... But so does food choice.
As for the debating thing, It just doesn't interest me, I don't have the time or the energy to drag a thread on for 10+ pages with neither side backing down. It never goes anywhere and NO-ONE ever changes their mind, so i honestly don't see the point..
The ironic thing is, its the same fear mongering that occured in the 80s and 90s with fat... pretty much verbatim.
That's why I'm still on the fence.. But I'm erring on the side of caution and hopefully giving myself better odds of a longer healthier life.
But I can testify 100% that since I've switched to lower carbs my cravings and constant hunger have almost disappeared. This was the main reason I switched, because I was sick of always being hungry and the more carbs and sugars i ate, the more I wanted.. I was never satisfied. Yes, I realise they don't affect everyone the same.
I'm now on the same of calories I was struggling to stick to before but am much more satisfied and not counting down the hours and minutes til the next meal.
What i typically find with people that say they are hungry on carbs, is they tend to eat the wrong ones, more often or not because they didnt have much fiber. And since they transitioned to low carb, they are now limited on what they can choose from, which they then turn to more veggies.
To keep me full with 50% carbs, its fruits, veggies, greek yogurt, protein bagels, oatmeal and high fiber breads (arnold brand - US)
Fair call
When I look into Obese peoples shopping carts, they are often filled with what we call empty junk food carbs. If they chose the right foods maybe they wouldn't be constantly eating and craving the carb and sugar laden stuff, leading to eating too much, leading to obesity, leading to illness.
To be fair, i know a lot of obese and overfat people following low carb diets too. In fact, i know a lot of overfat and obese people following every dietary style.
LOL I can't argue with you there. I can only go by my own experience. I don't have any health/medical conditions so can't speak personally how low carb affects health.
Howeeeever I have read so many positive testimonials on the low carb boards from people who have reversed their health conditions following this way of life, it's hard to ignore.
People reversed their health condition by losing weight, low carb had nothing to do with it. I dropped 30 pounds by eating carbs, and my blood work comes back nearly perfect every year.
You can also read positive testimonials on how raspberry ketones increase weight and fat loss, does that mean they work?
I woud caution using things that you read on inter web boards as gospel..
I've seen testimonials that Shakeology and Advocare have cured cancer and various other diseases (not kidding). I've seen people on this board claiming that keto cures diseases which haven't even been proven to exist (except in the minds of crackpots like Taubes, Lustig, MercoLOLa, et al).0 -
This is a easy read that I think those who are linking sugar to IR and talking if massively inflated statistics may wish to read
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx
How are insulin resistance and prediabetes diagnosed?
Health care providers use blood tests to determine whether a person has prediabetes, but they do not usually test specifically for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be assessed by measuring the level of insulin in the blood.
However, the test that most accurately measures insulin resistance, called the euglycemic clamp, is too costly and complicated to be used in most health care providers’ offices. The clamp is a research tool used by scientists to learn more about glucose metabolism. Research has shown that if blood tests indicate prediabetes, insulin resistance most likely is present.
What causes insulin resistance?
Although the exact causes of insulin resistance are not completely understood, scientists think the major contributors to insulin resistance are excess weight and physical inactivity.
...
Other Causes
Other causes of insulin resistance may include ethnicity; certain diseases; hormones; steroid use; some medications; older age; sleep problems, especially sleep apnea; and cigarette smoking.
Can insulin resistance and prediabetes be reversed?
Yes. Physical activity and weight loss help the body respond better to insulin. The Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP) was a federally funded study of 3,234 people at high risk for diabetes.
The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week.
TL:DR- lose weight, move more...sugar is irrelevant0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »An apple and a greek yogurt a day and here we go - I'm past my sugar target of 48 grams (for 1550 cal/d). Is there smth wrong with the MFP recommendation for sugar?
Can I just ignore it and bite into my second apple as long as it fits with the calory goal? Do you observe your sugar intake on the basis of what MFP tells you?
48 grams of sugar for an apple and a Greek yogurt seems high to me. You must not be be talking about plain Greek yogurt. I don't worry about the sugar that occurs naturally in fruit and dairy, but I do pay attention to added sugar. Sugar was added to the first yogurt.
Unfortunately, MFP does not differentiate between naturally occurring and added sugar. But when I limit foods like sweetened yogurt and baked goods, I don't exceed the sugar.
OP, please ignore this.
There is no difference between natural and added sugar.
the sugar in your strawberry = the sugar in a cookie
Fructose is handled by your liver. So yes, not all sugars have the same effect on your body. Excess fructose may look good good on the glycemic index, but that can be deceptive.
http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide.com/glycemic-index-for-sweeteners.html
Sucrose and high fructose corn syrup contain glucose and fructose. Glucose is needed by some cells and can be used for energy by all cells. So much so, your body can make glucose if it is needed. Fructose is not needed, your body cannot make it and your liver is the only way to metabolize the large amounts common in the modern diet. If it is overburdened, that fructose is converted to fat. It is also associated with insulin resistance.
In the past, people usually only had fructose seasonally, and then from healthy fruit sources, not the added fructose we have now in it seems like most processed foods.
Fructose is consumed much more now than in the last century and earlier...of course that is going to have an effect0 -
The Institutes of Medicine recognise that the amount of dietary carbohydrate intake compatible with life is apparently zero. Eating sugar isn't necessary. It may be a useful food ingredient, pleasurable, desirable, even optimal, but not necessary for life as an external input.
This is true. Needs to be repeated.0 -
This is a easy read that I think those who are linking sugar to IR and talking if massively inflated statistics may wish to read
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx
How are insulin resistance and prediabetes diagnosed?
Health care providers use blood tests to determine whether a person has prediabetes, but they do not usually test specifically for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be assessed by measuring the level of insulin in the blood.
However, the test that most accurately measures insulin resistance, called the euglycemic clamp, is too costly and complicated to be used in most health care providers’ offices. The clamp is a research tool used by scientists to learn more about glucose metabolism. Research has shown that if blood tests indicate prediabetes, insulin resistance most likely is present.
What causes insulin resistance?
Although the exact causes of insulin resistance are not completely understood, scientists think the major contributors to insulin resistance are excess weight and physical inactivity.
...
Other Causes
Other causes of insulin resistance may include ethnicity; certain diseases; hormones; steroid use; some medications; older age; sleep problems, especially sleep apnea; and cigarette smoking.
Can insulin resistance and prediabetes be reversed?
Yes. Physical activity and weight loss help the body respond better to insulin. The Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP) was a federally funded study of 3,234 people at high risk for diabetes.
The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week.
TL:DR- lose weight, move more...sugar is irrelevant
For your TLDR, you don't mean that sugar is irrelevant once you have a condition, do you? Diabetes is a serious enough condition that I think we should be super careful about not sounding like we're telling diabetics or other IR folks to eat all the cake
And believe me, I'd jump on being able to eat all the cake with little provocation! Darnit...except that high BG kills nerves and kills people and all sorts of unfortunate things like that! It's awful and scary, and that's actually for real. Sugar is the debil for some folks (along with other kinds of carbs).
The apple vs a cookie for my levels appears to be related to how fast the glucose enters the system via the transport of the sugars, btw, y'all. My insulin can't wipe it out as quickly as when fiber, etc, slows the rate of absorption of the sugar. That's not just me, lol, but it is one I see all the time on my own BG monitor. I still try to find cookies I can eat! The apples so far have won out on the monitor
My cobbler made with very little added sugar and mostly fruit and butter isn't as bad as a cookie, though! That's a win. The fats help slow the absorption, so buttery dessert it is (occasionally) 0 -
@cafeaulait7 yes it goes without saying but even diabetics can rely on sugar
AlsoPollywog_la wrote: »The Institutes of Medicine recognise that the amount of dietary carbohydrate intake compatible with life is apparently zero. Eating sugar isn't necessary. It may be a useful food ingredient, pleasurable, desirable, even optimal, but not necessary for life as an external input.
This is true. Needs to be repeated.
insitute of medicine
https://iom.nationalacademies.org/Reports/2002/Dietary-Reference-Intakes-for-Energy-Carbohydrate-Fiber-Fat-Fatty-Acids-Cholesterol-Protein-and-Amino-Acids.aspx
"Adults should get 45 percent to 65 percent of their calories from carbohydrates, 20 percent to 35 percent from fat, and 10 to 35 percent from protein. Acceptable ranges for children are similar to those for adults, except that infants and younger children need a slightly higher proportion of fat (25 -40 percent).
- See more at: https://iom.nationalacademies.org/Reports/2002/Dietary-Reference-Intakes-for-Energy-Carbohydrate-Fiber-Fat-Fatty-Acids-Cholesterol-Protein-and-Amino-Acids.aspx#sthash.oWKUjJOf.dpuf"0 -
I also find it convenient that "undiagnosed" people are included in that count. If they're undiagnosed, that means nobody knows exactly how many there are so you can make any kind of outlandish claims as you want. But then again, unsubstantiated claims dovetail nicely with junk science.
It makes me laugh everytime i see that.. and its also amazing that the US keeps dropping their levels for "prediabetes". I can only imagine why... i mean its not like funding or anything else would be tied to those numbers.
Funding?!? Numbers?!? Well you may be on to something. IDK capitalist society, opportunity is ripe, funding.....hmmm....
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This is a easy read that I think those who are linking sugar to IR and talking if massively inflated statistics may wish to read
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx
How are insulin resistance and prediabetes diagnosed?
Health care providers use blood tests to determine whether a person has prediabetes, but they do not usually test specifically for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be assessed by measuring the level of insulin in the blood.
However, the test that most accurately measures insulin resistance, called the euglycemic clamp, is too costly and complicated to be used in most health care providers’ offices. The clamp is a research tool used by scientists to learn more about glucose metabolism. Research has shown that if blood tests indicate prediabetes, insulin resistance most likely is present.
What causes insulin resistance?
Although the exact causes of insulin resistance are not completely understood, scientists think the major contributors to insulin resistance are excess weight and physical inactivity.
...
Other Causes
Other causes of insulin resistance may include ethnicity; certain diseases; hormones; steroid use; some medications; older age; sleep problems, especially sleep apnea; and cigarette smoking.
Can insulin resistance and prediabetes be reversed?
Yes. Physical activity and weight loss help the body respond better to insulin. The Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP) was a federally funded study of 3,234 people at high risk for diabetes.
The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week.
TL:DR- lose weight, move more...sugar is irrelevant
Wait. SO excess weight and inactivity.......2 things. If you improve those 2 things you'd improve your condition. Seems so straightforward and yet, for some, they'll keep up with excuses to avoid them. Steroid use too?!? Wow. I am not surprised you found this information. I wish for people with these conditions they'd actually follow this advice instead of avoiding it.0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »This is a easy read that I think those who are linking sugar to IR and talking if massively inflated statistics may wish to read
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx
How are insulin resistance and prediabetes diagnosed?
Health care providers use blood tests to determine whether a person has prediabetes, but they do not usually test specifically for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be assessed by measuring the level of insulin in the blood.
However, the test that most accurately measures insulin resistance, called the euglycemic clamp, is too costly and complicated to be used in most health care providers’ offices. The clamp is a research tool used by scientists to learn more about glucose metabolism. Research has shown that if blood tests indicate prediabetes, insulin resistance most likely is present.
What causes insulin resistance?
Although the exact causes of insulin resistance are not completely understood, scientists think the major contributors to insulin resistance are excess weight and physical inactivity.
...
Other Causes
Other causes of insulin resistance may include ethnicity; certain diseases; hormones; steroid use; some medications; older age; sleep problems, especially sleep apnea; and cigarette smoking.
Can insulin resistance and prediabetes be reversed?
Yes. Physical activity and weight loss help the body respond better to insulin. The Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP) was a federally funded study of 3,234 people at high risk for diabetes.
The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week.
TL:DR- lose weight, move more...sugar is irrelevant
Wait. SO excess weight and inactivity.......2 things. If you improve those 2 things you'd improve your condition. Seems so straightforward and yet, for some, they'll keep up with excuses to avoid them. Steroid use too?!? Wow. I am not surprised you found this information. I wish for people with these conditions they'd actually follow this advice instead of avoiding it.
I may miss the answer to this because I have to get off the computer and these threads so often go poof, but are you saying that every case of diabetes or even IR is reversible with lifestyle changes? Improvement means many different things on an individual basis, so please don't think everyone with diabetes is basically lazy, fat and stupid. How unfair.
If you know of any study that showed reversed diabetes for every non-control subject, I'm all ears! That's with any method, including medication, much less with taking up jogging and dropping pounds.0 -
cafeaulait7 wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »This is a easy read that I think those who are linking sugar to IR and talking if massively inflated statistics may wish to read
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx
How are insulin resistance and prediabetes diagnosed?
Health care providers use blood tests to determine whether a person has prediabetes, but they do not usually test specifically for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be assessed by measuring the level of insulin in the blood.
However, the test that most accurately measures insulin resistance, called the euglycemic clamp, is too costly and complicated to be used in most health care providers’ offices. The clamp is a research tool used by scientists to learn more about glucose metabolism. Research has shown that if blood tests indicate prediabetes, insulin resistance most likely is present.
What causes insulin resistance?
Although the exact causes of insulin resistance are not completely understood, scientists think the major contributors to insulin resistance are excess weight and physical inactivity.
...
Other Causes
Other causes of insulin resistance may include ethnicity; certain diseases; hormones; steroid use; some medications; older age; sleep problems, especially sleep apnea; and cigarette smoking.
Can insulin resistance and prediabetes be reversed?
Yes. Physical activity and weight loss help the body respond better to insulin. The Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP) was a federally funded study of 3,234 people at high risk for diabetes.
The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week.
TL:DR- lose weight, move more...sugar is irrelevant
Wait. SO excess weight and inactivity.......2 things. If you improve those 2 things you'd improve your condition. Seems so straightforward and yet, for some, they'll keep up with excuses to avoid them. Steroid use too?!? Wow. I am not surprised you found this information. I wish for people with these conditions they'd actually follow this advice instead of avoiding it.
I may miss the answer to this because I have to get off the computer and these threads so often go poof, but are you saying that every case of diabetes or even IR is reversible with lifestyle changes? Improvement means many different things on an individual basis, so please don't think everyone with diabetes is basically lazy, fat and stupid. How unfair.
If you know of any study that showed reversed diabetes for every non-control subject, I'm all ears! That's with any method, including medication, much less with taking up jogging and dropping pounds.
I think you'd like to infer something I never said which isn't unusual for the internet and public forums. I think, so clarity for you in this case, I said if people would exercise it would improve their outcome. Avoiding it is their choice. Knowing a part of an answer to someone's situation and they avoid it is sort of like using a dull saw to cut down a tree. You may cut the tree or you may not. If you need a study to prove something the medical community widely accepts then I'd suggest looking for those studies.
Friends I have on here and IRL with diabetes understand their condition and have taken action to improve their lives.0 -
Pollywog_la wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »An apple and a greek yogurt a day and here we go - I'm past my sugar target of 48 grams (for 1550 cal/d). Is there smth wrong with the MFP recommendation for sugar?
Can I just ignore it and bite into my second apple as long as it fits with the calory goal? Do you observe your sugar intake on the basis of what MFP tells you?
48 grams of sugar for an apple and a Greek yogurt seems high to me. You must not be be talking about plain Greek yogurt. I don't worry about the sugar that occurs naturally in fruit and dairy, but I do pay attention to added sugar. Sugar was added to the first yogurt.
Unfortunately, MFP does not differentiate between naturally occurring and added sugar. But when I limit foods like sweetened yogurt and baked goods, I don't exceed the sugar.
OP, please ignore this.
There is no difference between natural and added sugar.
the sugar in your strawberry = the sugar in a cookie
Fructose is handled by your liver. So yes, not all sugars have the same effect on your body. Excess fructose may look good good on the glycemic index, but that can be deceptive.
http://www.sugar-and-sweetener-guide.com/glycemic-index-for-sweeteners.html
Sucrose and high fructose corn syrup contain glucose and fructose. Glucose is needed by some cells and can be used for energy by all cells. So much so, your body can make glucose if it is needed. Fructose is not needed, your body cannot make it and your liver is the only way to metabolize the large amounts common in the modern diet. If it is overburdened, that fructose is converted to fat. It is also associated with insulin resistance.
In the past, people usually only had fructose seasonally, and then from healthy fruit sources, not the added fructose we have now in it seems like most processed foods.
Fructose is consumed much more now than in the last century and earlier...of course that is going to have an effect
http://www.alanaragonblog.com/2010/01/29/the-bitter-truth-about-fructose-alarmism/
And if you think people never preserved fruits to be able to eat them out of season or trade them from countries where they grow over longer periods of time you're sorely mistaken.0 -
christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »All I can say if people choose to eat excess sugar over the recommended amounts then hope and pray that research never comes out proving it causes disease or medical conditions.
I'm not pro or against, and have zero interest in debating about sugar. I have an open mind and choose not to nitpick or mock those who believe sugar is not a necessary part of our diet.
I have noticed though, that not a week goes by where I don't read or hear the negative impact sugar can have. It cant all possibly be baseless. .
Everyone has they their own diet path they choose to follow, and if it works for them then who am I to judge.
and some of these negative health impacts on people who get adequate nutrition and hit their calories goals are…?
Not sure how you can say that you don't want to debate it, then come in here and debate it, and then make some kind of strange statement about "reading stuff" about how sugar is bad, and not even referencing how it is bad….
That's the thing, I read the headlines but have only ever skimmed the articles. What I'm hearing is on the TV or in our weekly/daily paper. I'm in Australia, and the last 6mths it's just been constantly mentioned, and never in a positive way, so much so that I almost switch off now. I've never researched on the internet, because as we all know, anyone can find links to back up what they want to hear.
I'm still on the fence, erring more to the lower sugar side. I am one of the people who are hoping and praying that years of excess carbs and sugars aren't going to come back and bite me on the *kitten*. And truthfully I am sick to death of seeing young obese kids and their parents shoving sugar laden foods and drinks down their gullets. That alone is enough to put me off. Yes i know activity level and calories play a part... But so does food choice.
As for the debating thing, It just doesn't interest me, I don't have the time or the energy to drag a thread on for 10+ pages with neither side backing down. It never goes anywhere and NO-ONE ever changes their mind, so i honestly don't see the point..
The ironic thing is, its the same fear mongering that occured in the 80s and 90s with fat... pretty much verbatim.
Yup. And back when I grew up kids would eat an after school snack or a dessert (only if we ate our veggies, though, and not before dinner so as to spoil our appetites) and cake at birthday parties and yet we weren't fat -- almost no one was. That we've lost all understanding of moderation today and that some parents seem not to know what a healthy balanced meal is or to be able to feed such to their kids and therefore allow unlimited snacking and sugary drinks does not mean that sugar is the issue or that we all should cut out sugar (and nearly all carbs, rolling eyes).
If someone likes that, whatever, but the idea that it's important for health for the population as a whole is a reach, and an unsupported one. Obviously it's possible to consume excessive amounts of added sugar and a poor and calorie inappropriate diet may well be linked to that, but to bring this thread back to OP's question -- I don't know why OP's question about apples and sweetened greek yogurt provokes such preaching and examples. It's kind of offensive, as OP said nothing about whether it was okay to eat enormous amounts of calories from soda and cake or the like.
Again, if we look at blue zone diets, they don't involve loads of added sugar, obviously, but they might involve plenty of fruit and they don't at all suggest that lowering carbs is necessary for health. In fact, they tend to suggest that the healthiest diets would involve a good amount of carbs (but that the choice of carbs, like the choice of fats and protein sources, is significant).0 -
christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »christinev297 wrote: »All I can say if people choose to eat excess sugar over the recommended amounts then hope and pray that research never comes out proving it causes disease or medical conditions.
I'm not pro or against, and have zero interest in debating about sugar. I have an open mind and choose not to nitpick or mock those who believe sugar is not a necessary part of our diet.
I have noticed though, that not a week goes by where I don't read or hear the negative impact sugar can have. It cant all possibly be baseless. .
Everyone has they their own diet path they choose to follow, and if it works for them then who am I to judge.
and some of these negative health impacts on people who get adequate nutrition and hit their calories goals are…?
Not sure how you can say that you don't want to debate it, then come in here and debate it, and then make some kind of strange statement about "reading stuff" about how sugar is bad, and not even referencing how it is bad….
That's the thing, I read the headlines but have only ever skimmed the articles. What I'm hearing is on the TV or in our weekly/daily paper. I'm in Australia, and the last 6mths it's just been constantly mentioned, and never in a positive way, so much so that I almost switch off now. I've never researched on the internet, because as we all know, anyone can find links to back up what they want to hear.
I'm still on the fence, erring more to the lower sugar side. I am one of the people who are hoping and praying that years of excess carbs and sugars aren't going to come back and bite me on the *kitten*. And truthfully I am sick to death of seeing young obese kids and their parents shoving sugar laden foods and drinks down their gullets. That alone is enough to put me off. Yes i know activity level and calories play a part... But so does food choice.
As for the debating thing, It just doesn't interest me, I don't have the time or the energy to drag a thread on for 10+ pages with neither side backing down. It never goes anywhere and NO-ONE ever changes their mind, so i honestly don't see the point..
The ironic thing is, its the same fear mongering that occured in the 80s and 90s with fat... pretty much verbatim.
That's why I'm still on the fence.. But I'm erring on the side of caution and hopefully giving myself better odds of a longer healthier life.
But I can testify 100% that since I've switched to lower carbs my cravings and constant hunger have almost disappeared. This was the main reason I switched, because I was sick of always being hungry and the more carbs and sugars i ate, the more I wanted.. I was never satisfied. Yes, I realise they don't affect everyone the same.
I'm now on the same of calories I was struggling to stick to before but am much more satisfied and not counting down the hours and minutes til the next meal.
What i typically find with people that say they are hungry on carbs, is they tend to eat the wrong ones, more often or not because they didnt have much fiber. And since they transitioned to low carb, they are now limited on what they can choose from, which they then turn to more veggies.
To keep me full with 50% carbs, its fruits, veggies, greek yogurt, protein bagels, oatmeal and high fiber breads (arnold brand - US)
Yes, this is what I've noticed as well. People generalize too much. (They often also complain about the supposed non filling nature of "carb" treats that are really just as much fat.)0 -
cafeaulait7 wrote: »This is a easy read that I think those who are linking sugar to IR and talking if massively inflated statistics may wish to read
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx
How are insulin resistance and prediabetes diagnosed?
Health care providers use blood tests to determine whether a person has prediabetes, but they do not usually test specifically for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be assessed by measuring the level of insulin in the blood.
However, the test that most accurately measures insulin resistance, called the euglycemic clamp, is too costly and complicated to be used in most health care providers’ offices. The clamp is a research tool used by scientists to learn more about glucose metabolism. Research has shown that if blood tests indicate prediabetes, insulin resistance most likely is present.
What causes insulin resistance?
Although the exact causes of insulin resistance are not completely understood, scientists think the major contributors to insulin resistance are excess weight and physical inactivity.
...
Other Causes
Other causes of insulin resistance may include ethnicity; certain diseases; hormones; steroid use; some medications; older age; sleep problems, especially sleep apnea; and cigarette smoking.
Can insulin resistance and prediabetes be reversed?
Yes. Physical activity and weight loss help the body respond better to insulin. The Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP) was a federally funded study of 3,234 people at high risk for diabetes.
The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week.
TL:DR- lose weight, move more...sugar is irrelevant
For your TLDR, you don't mean that sugar is irrelevant once you have a condition, do you? Diabetes is a serious enough condition that I think we should be super careful about not sounding like we're telling diabetics or other IR folks to eat all the cake
And believe me, I'd jump on being able to eat all the cake with little provocation! Darnit...except that high BG kills nerves and kills people and all sorts of unfortunate things like that! It's awful and scary, and that's actually for real. Sugar is the debil for some folks (along with other kinds of carbs).
The apple vs a cookie for my levels appears to be related to how fast the glucose enters the system via the transport of the sugars, btw, y'all. My insulin can't wipe it out as quickly as when fiber, etc, slows the rate of absorption of the sugar. That's not just me, lol, but it is one I see all the time on my own BG monitor. I still try to find cookies I can eat! The apples so far have won out on the monitor
My cobbler made with very little added sugar and mostly fruit and butter isn't as bad as a cookie, though! That's a win. The fats help slow the absorption, so buttery dessert it is (occasionally)
This isn't the case for everyone, though. I have a friend who is struggling with T2D, and he has worse responses when he eats sugary/carby things that also have sat fat. I thought that was weird until I reached it a little, and apparently it's common and a known response.
Bigger point -- and not aimed at you, as the thread has drifted -- is that I don't see why all the T2D stuff has to come in with response to every question. Not everyone needs to eat like a diabetic.0 -
When the standard for evaluating potential bad outcomes is that they "can" happen, apparently we all need to behave as if they have happened. Or, I suppose, at least pray that they don't happen.lemurcat12 wrote: »cafeaulait7 wrote: »This is a easy read that I think those who are linking sugar to IR and talking if massively inflated statistics may wish to read
http://www.niddk.nih.gov/health-information/health-topics/Diabetes/insulin-resistance-prediabetes/Pages/index.aspx
How are insulin resistance and prediabetes diagnosed?
Health care providers use blood tests to determine whether a person has prediabetes, but they do not usually test specifically for insulin resistance. Insulin resistance can be assessed by measuring the level of insulin in the blood.
However, the test that most accurately measures insulin resistance, called the euglycemic clamp, is too costly and complicated to be used in most health care providers’ offices. The clamp is a research tool used by scientists to learn more about glucose metabolism. Research has shown that if blood tests indicate prediabetes, insulin resistance most likely is present.
What causes insulin resistance?
Although the exact causes of insulin resistance are not completely understood, scientists think the major contributors to insulin resistance are excess weight and physical inactivity.
...
Other Causes
Other causes of insulin resistance may include ethnicity; certain diseases; hormones; steroid use; some medications; older age; sleep problems, especially sleep apnea; and cigarette smoking.
Can insulin resistance and prediabetes be reversed?
Yes. Physical activity and weight loss help the body respond better to insulin. The Diabetes Prevention Program (DPP) was a federally funded study of 3,234 people at high risk for diabetes.
The DPP and other large studies proved that people with prediabetes can often prevent or delay diabetes if they lose a modest amount of weight by cutting fat and calorie intake and increasing physical activity—for example, walking 30 minutes a day, 5 days a week.
TL:DR- lose weight, move more...sugar is irrelevant
For your TLDR, you don't mean that sugar is irrelevant once you have a condition, do you? Diabetes is a serious enough condition that I think we should be super careful about not sounding like we're telling diabetics or other IR folks to eat all the cake
And believe me, I'd jump on being able to eat all the cake with little provocation! Darnit...except that high BG kills nerves and kills people and all sorts of unfortunate things like that! It's awful and scary, and that's actually for real. Sugar is the debil for some folks (along with other kinds of carbs).
The apple vs a cookie for my levels appears to be related to how fast the glucose enters the system via the transport of the sugars, btw, y'all. My insulin can't wipe it out as quickly as when fiber, etc, slows the rate of absorption of the sugar. That's not just me, lol, but it is one I see all the time on my own BG monitor. I still try to find cookies I can eat! The apples so far have won out on the monitor
My cobbler made with very little added sugar and mostly fruit and butter isn't as bad as a cookie, though! That's a win. The fats help slow the absorption, so buttery dessert it is (occasionally)
This isn't the case for everyone, though. I have a friend who is struggling with T2D, and he has worse responses when he eats sugary/carby things that also have sat fat. I thought that was weird until I reached it a little, and apparently it's common and a known response.
Bigger point -- and not aimed at you, as the thread has drifted -- is that I don't see why all the T2D stuff has to come in with response to every question. Not everyone needs to eat like a diabetic.
I wonder how people with such an outlook on potential risks and dangers manage to strap themselves into a car and drive to the grocery store, though.
0
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