Isagenix, Science or Woo?

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  • robertw486
    robertw486 Posts: 2,390 Member
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    @Destiny4_four

    I think you'll find that regardless of your approach, some will continue to follow you to prove that the method used that you promote can't possibly be legit, isn't needed, and is full of woo. But from what I've seen, you either have differences in some of the woo claims (which are subjective most of the time) or believe in the product to help those that just can't eat a healthier way and need a system or program to control weight.


    And I actually agree with you. I don't need to log or weigh my food to lose weight myself, but I'm sure glad I'm not a scale salesman that comes to MFP. Though I do use some protein bars here and there, I don't need big containers of whey or any other protein, I don't need or use pre workout stuff, and I don't need a wifi connected scale. But those are all tools that many MFP users buy and use daily. Because it's a tool that works for them.

    And though I do agree that pricing on some programs is out of line, well pricing on paying for anything you don't do yourself is out of line. I have a fried who IMO paid way too much to a local gym for what I thought was very poor diet advice and a restrictive diet to the 10th degree. They are setting him up to return IMO. And I've seen what some of the local whack trainers charge too. There was a tread in the last couple of days from a local gym that overcharges and promotes gross woo when it comes to weight loss.

    So in the context that you are stating, I fully agree that what "tools" motivate people to lose weight vary a lot from person to person. And if they feel that paying into a structured eating program is right for them, it's their money. Considering that you are promoting that they learn to eat better on their own and only use the system if desired and hopefully short term, it actually seems like you aren't trying to convince anyone that they need it to succeed long term. And having been in several sales related fields, I can appreciate the truth included, as some haven't the moral fiber to mention the truth and revert to sales pitch mode.

    I'm glad my friend overpaid the local gym, and would have been just as glad if he had paid for a food or supplement program that helped him lose weight. Because it's still a better health choice than not caring and being obese. But the trend I see here on the forums is often one of it not being important at all... unless it's important to that person. Then it's repeated, promoted, and often even attached as needed for success. I think it's up to the individual to decide that. And in my case, for me I'm 100% certain of it. But I don't need a food scale, so people will tell me I'm wrong.
  • Destiny4_four
    Destiny4_four Posts: 49 Member
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    Thanks Robert. You get it. Some won't let facts or studies get in their way and in a strange way I understand their need for that. I offered the science to the original question and let those that choose to see what they want, be happy with their sight.

    I'm about health in general and recognize that there are many ways to get there. As you say "tools", yes, if that's what is needed to obtain the objective, so be it. Some need tools, some don't. I am not here to judge. Your "local gym" analogy is spot on and I agree 1000%.

    Also, I don't use a food scale either, but I wouldn't call that method a scam just because it's not what I do. To each his own, is more my style (sounds like yours also).
  • Wetcoaster
    Wetcoaster Posts: 1,788 Member
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    If you are about health you would not be pushing mlm ..
  • Destiny4_four
    Destiny4_four Posts: 49 Member
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    Wet, I am a proponent of their healthy aging program. When I "promote" the product, it is usually those products that I focus on. So many ask or are interested in the weight-loss products, there is no getting around that, but it is really not my primary interest, but nor would I apologize for it, because it does help a fair number of people.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,659 Member
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    I'll just leave it that NO PROGRAM for weight loss works without calorie deficit. And calorie deficit doesn't cost anything.
    Does it hurt to add any supplementation? Probably not if the product is pure, but then again there's not been hardly any research to show that it's necessary to lose weight.
    Just going by experience, I've met and trained so many people who've tried diet plans, shakes, DVD's, celebrity workouts and fads, etc. and the usual result is that they couldn't sustain it due to cost or the program itself.
    Would I turn anyone away because they choose to use something like Isagenix? No. My job would just be to ensure that whatever workout they want to learn and do is taught correctly and implemented.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png
  • Destiny4_four
    Destiny4_four Posts: 49 Member
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    "I'll just leave it that NO PROGRAM for weight loss works without calorie deficit. And calorie deficit doesn't cost anything." Niner again I agree with you 100%, and with the rest of your post also btw.

    I do appreciate your sense of fairness and you too seem like you put the well being of others first. An admirable trait for sure.
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,659 Member
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    "I'll just leave it that NO PROGRAM for weight loss works without calorie deficit. And calorie deficit doesn't cost anything." Niner again I agree with you 100%, and with the rest of your post also btw.

    I do appreciate your sense of fairness and you too seem like you put the well being of others first. An admirable trait for sure.
    I believe I'm open minded to just about any approach that anyone wants to do. I may not agree with it, but I'd never turn anyone away who wanted my assistance because of it.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

    9285851.png

  • AnvilHead
    AnvilHead Posts: 18,344 Member
    edited December 2015
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    ...Also, I don't use a food scale either, but I wouldn't call that method a scam just because it's not what I do. To each his own, is more my style (sounds like yours also).

    A food scale is a tool with a proven legitimate use. If somebody came on here peddling MLM food scales which they claimed cured diseases, "detoxed" your body, reversed the aging process and magically made you lose weight, plenty of people would call woo on them too. Whether they had bogus "studies" (which could more accurately be called "infomercials") to back up their claims or not.

    The reason MLM woo peddlers get called out here has nothing to do with trying to change their minds or stop them - they've drunk the kool-aid and (at least some of them) are making money peddling their wares. It's to help other people reading the threads so hopefully at least some of them will realize that snake oil isn't an effective, sustainable way to lose weight and be healthy, and they shouldn't be suckered into the scams which do nothing but put money in the scammers' pockets.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    K you saw 2 independent studies concluding that the products work (not only short term but long term as well). That is the "science" behind their products proven. No one has to like their products, but my whole point is that it certainly is not a scam.

    I do think we beat it to death, but all the evidence is certainly there/here.

    And for the record I am a huge proponent for a healthy eating lifestyle, but I recognize that there is no one size fits all.

    K, so you're just plainly ignoring that the studies were bought and done by associates of the company. "Independent" my *kitten*.
    And you're ignoring all the problems apart from that too. Here's a hint, if doing IF with isagenix produces the same result as IF without isagenix, that is not a proof that isagenix works, rather the opposite.
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    edited December 2015
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    robertw486 wrote: »
    @Destiny4_four

    I think you'll find that regardless of your approach, some will continue to follow you to prove that the method used that you promote can't possibly be legit, isn't needed, and is full of woo. But from what I've seen, you either have differences in some of the woo claims (which are subjective most of the time) or believe in the product to help those that just can't eat a healthier way and need a system or program to control weight.


    And I actually agree with you. I don't need to log or weigh my food to lose weight myself, but I'm sure glad I'm not a scale salesman that comes to MFP. Though I do use some protein bars here and there, I don't need big containers of whey or any other protein, I don't need or use pre workout stuff, and I don't need a wifi connected scale. But those are all tools that many MFP users buy and use daily. Because it's a tool that works for them.

    And though I do agree that pricing on some programs is out of line, well pricing on paying for anything you don't do yourself is out of line. I have a fried who IMO paid way too much to a local gym for what I thought was very poor diet advice and a restrictive diet to the 10th degree. They are setting him up to return IMO. And I've seen what some of the local whack trainers charge too. There was a tread in the last couple of days from a local gym that overcharges and promotes gross woo when it comes to weight loss.

    So in the context that you are stating, I fully agree that what "tools" motivate people to lose weight vary a lot from person to person. And if they feel that paying into a structured eating program is right for them, it's their money. Considering that you are promoting that they learn to eat better on their own and only use the system if desired and hopefully short term, it actually seems like you aren't trying to convince anyone that they need it to succeed long term. And having been in several sales related fields, I can appreciate the truth included, as some haven't the moral fiber to mention the truth and revert to sales pitch mode.

    I'm glad my friend overpaid the local gym, and would have been just as glad if he had paid for a food or supplement program that helped him lose weight. Because it's still a better health choice than not caring and being obese. But the trend I see here on the forums is often one of it not being important at all... unless it's important to that person. Then it's repeated, promoted, and often even attached as needed for success. I think it's up to the individual to decide that. And in my case, for me I'm 100% certain of it. But I don't need a food scale, so people will tell me I'm wrong.

    And seriously? "those that just can't eat a healthier way"? What, are they allergic to all healthy foods? Can't be the money since they can throw that to isagenix.
    And instead of being glad your friend overpaid (what even), you should have sat him down and told him hey dude don't be an idiot. That's what friends are for, not blind support for every stupid thing they do.
  • Destiny4_four
    Destiny4_four Posts: 49 Member
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    Steven, rather than listen to others info or take, read each of the studies yourself so that you may gain a better insight to the reality and validity of each study (or not).
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
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    Do you want to keep ignoring everyone's criticism with a "Yeah that's just like, your opinion man"?
  • MissT895
    MissT895 Posts: 30 Member
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    My sister just ordered this and I'm worried. She wants to hit her goal so bad before her wedding but I believe there are healthier ways like eating real food. Set up an account on mfp for her and just told to track calories, but some people just can't get past the quick fix
  • Destiny4_four
    Destiny4_four Posts: 49 Member
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    Miss, as previously stated, I am a big supporter of healthy eating and a long term healthy lifestyle. I obviously totally understand however your sister's situation. I see it all the time. My guess is that she will be happy with the short term results. After the wedding you may be able to take her to her long term goals via a different path.

    Good luck to her and I hope you are a supporting sister throughout, as it sounds that you are. Weddings are stressful enough to put together, she will need everyone's support along the way (even if you don't fully agree). Good luck to you also.
  • soapsandropes
    soapsandropes Posts: 269 Member
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    psulemon, I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but free radicals are (from studies I read) toxins to the body's cells and can be (not talking Isagenix here) reduced by certain things introduced into the body.

    Here is an excellent article that discusses free radical damage and antioxidants (see point 2). nature.com/news/the-science-myths-that-will-not-die-1.19022?WT.mc_id=FBK_NA_1512_NEWSFSCIMYTHS_PORTFOLIO

  • acorsaut89
    acorsaut89 Posts: 1,147 Member
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    From what I have experienced (I have more than a few colleagues who love this stuff) it's a quick fix product more than anything else.

    The main "package" they sell, from what they have tried to sell me on, is a 30 day cleanse fix - which is basically 2 of these shakes/day and then one regular portioned meal. It may have vitamins and nutrients and whatever in it but from what I can see with this main package is it's simply calorie restriction which, of course, if followed will lead to a quick "cleanse"/"flush" of your system because you're now taking in less than you used to and you will lose weight.

    Also, it requires you to drink 2 of 3 meals/day for 30 days. I personally can't drink my calories as I get pretty psychologically hungry but maybe some can. The science may be there, but I don't think it's anything you can't get out of a normal, regular, balanced diet. You will get results quicker - IE more caloric restriction = quicker loss - but I don't think there's anything in it that is some secret revelation of weight loss.
  • queenliz99
    queenliz99 Posts: 15,317 Member
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    psulemon, I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but free radicals are (from studies I read) toxins to the body's cells and can be (not talking Isagenix here) reduced by certain things introduced into the body.

    Here is an excellent article that discusses free radical damage and antioxidants (see point 2). nature.com/news/the-science-myths-that-will-not-die-1.19022?WT.mc_id=FBK_NA_1512_NEWSFSCIMYTHS_PORTFOLIO

    Nice find!
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
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    K you saw 2 independent studies concluding that the products work (not only short term but long term as well). That is the "science" behind their products proven. No one has to like their products, but my whole point is that it certainly is not a scam.

    I do think we beat it to death, but all the evidence is certainly there/here.

    And for the record I am a huge proponent for a healthy eating lifestyle, but I recognize that there is no one size fits all.

    Absolutely, this product works.....if you eat at a calorie deficit. If you don't eat at a calorie deficit, the product won't work.

    Bottom line, if you lose weight while on this product, it is not the product itself causing weight loss but the deficit.

    It is a scam because it is 100% unnecessary for weight loss and it's a MLM scheme that is designed to take your money and keep you coming back for more.
  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
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    psulemon, I don't claim to be an expert by any means, but free radicals are (from studies I read) toxins to the body's cells and can be (not talking Isagenix here) reduced by certain things introduced into the body.

    Here is an excellent article that discusses free radical damage and antioxidants (see point 2). nature.com/news/the-science-myths-that-will-not-die-1.19022?WT.mc_id=FBK_NA_1512_NEWSFSCIMYTHS_PORTFOLIO

    Outstanding!