The February 2016 Running Challenge
Replies
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HA thanks @pansamanchada for being my pal as well! It's nice to know that someone is spying on me, to keep me accountable.... LOL! Also, @Becky_44 is right, now I have the third lowest goal!! Plus, that just means we are beginners... it also means that we have no excuse to not meet those goals, and raise them for March!!
Also, I just realized I haven't posted my updated ticker. Progress is progress, whether it's slow or fast!!
@Elise4270 Those temperatures sound reasonable, I tend to at least be short sleeved if I'm running in the 40s (discovered this in November). Right now the temp feels about 18F, with 7mph winds, so that combined with about two inches of snow makes me think I'll be wearing a long-sleeve half zip that I picked up the other day. It's sunny today, and in Michigan during the winter we get so little sunshine that I go outside anytime it's here!0 -
@Elise4270 Sure you can have my shoe/foot/strike info as an addition for your data collection. Although I don't know if it will be helpful - my shoe choices are purely based on feelings, no proper gait analysis or anything of that sorts.A runner without shoes is like a pirate without booty.
I'm on a shoe hunt. If you have a minute, chime in with your shoe/foot/ strike info. Yes even if you are a newbie please... Because I feel like I'm missing something.
I have very high arches, minimalist shoe, and feel I have a solid mid foot strike. Love trail shoes.
My left foot is actually swollen this morning from whatever is going on.
I once went to a store with gait analysis, at the time I first decided to started running some ten years ago. Back then they told me I had normal arches and was strongly overpronating. They gave me shoes with a lot of "motion control". I ran in those and the follow-up model for a while. At first they were fine, then I started getting slight shin & knee issues - nothing overly painful, but still noticeable twinges. I read somewhere that your running form can change with training, so I figured maybe my tendons or muscles got stronger with exercise, and I didn't need such large amounts of motion control anymore. I wasn't living near the store with the video gait analysis anymore, so I just went and bought some shoes which felt good to me, regardless of any of the stability/support/cushioning/whatever-categories. I've done so ever since, and the little twinges in the shins/knees went away and never came back. So maybe my "need less motion control"-theory was right, or I just got lucky, but since then I've stuck to my "buy what feels comfortable to run in"-method.
I have normal arches and a midfoot strike (at least I think so - maybe I should go looking for another video analysis store, just out of curiosity if I'm right...).
My latest shoes, which I really like running in, are:
- Saucony Cortana
- Brooks Pure Flow
Since you wrote "minimalist shoes", I'm not sure they are what you are looking for - I'd rather describe them as "good damping, but lightweight & neutral".0 -
kristinegift wrote: »@9voice9 For this Saturday, I would do just the race distance, but push yourself. And enjoy it!A race however, you are going full throttle and that will more than make up for the 4 miles you be short. Plus consider a half mile warm-up before the race and maybe a half mile cool down afterwards, then you be ok.
As far as the HM getting easier, yeah it will get easier the more you do it. My first HM race left me sore for like a whole week. I couldn't even run for the next 4 days afterwards and almost went and got a massage. I was on travel up near Baltimore the whole week after my HM. But the more you do that distance the easier it gets. A couple weeks after that HM was when I decided to start training for my first full marathon. lol So at that point my long runs slowly got even further and 3 months later I was already starting to do 18 and 20 milers. At that point, 13 becomes super easy.
You got a problem wit dat? (all Jersey like) ;-)
Thanks to all for responses ( @Elise4270 @7lenny7 included) and especially to these. This is why I love this group - I learn so much from your experience, and get so much support for my efforts.0 -
2/01: 3 miles, easy, 8:36 pace + 45 min x-training + core
2/02: 5 miles, tempo, 8:22 pace + 40 min x-training
2/03: 5 miles, speedwork (4x800m at 5K pace) + 45 min strength training + core
2/04: Off (bad held cold -_-), 45 min x-training
2/05: 4 miles, easy, 8:40 pace
Total: 17 miles
Today’s run was a beautiful, easy 4 miles! I have a bad habit of going a little too fast/hard on my easy runs, but I guess I shouldn’t complain. Besides, my legs felt great today! Got a bit of light snow during the run but at least it wasn’t too cold or windy
Upcoming races:
2/20 - Mardi Gras Chaser (5K)
3/12 - Leprechaun Leap (5K)
3/20 - Excalibur 10 Miler
3/26 - Chicago Quarter Marathon
4/09 - Chi Town Half Marathon
5/28 - Soldier Field Run (10 miles)0 -
_nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
@Elise4270 Sure you can have my shoe/foot/strike info as an addition for your data collection. Although I don't know if it will be helpful - my shoe choices are purely based on feelings, no proper gait analysis or anything of that sorts.A runner without shoes is like a pirate without booty.
I'm on a shoe hunt. If you have a minute, chime in with your shoe/foot/ strike info. Yes even if you are a newbie please... Because I feel like I'm missing something.
I have very high arches, minimalist shoe, and feel I have a solid mid foot strike. Love trail shoes.
My left foot is actually swollen this morning from whatever is going on.
I once went to a store with gait analysis, at the time I first decided to started running some ten years ago. Back then they told me I had normal arches and was strongly overpronating. They gave me shoes with a lot of "motion control". I ran in those and the follow-up model for a while. At first they were fine, then I started getting slight shin & knee issues - nothing overly painful, but still noticeable twinges. I read somewhere that your running form can change with training, so I figured maybe my tendons or muscles got stronger with exercise, and I didn't need such large amounts of motion control anymore. I wasn't living near the store with the video gait analysis anymore, so I just went and bought some shoes which felt good to me, regardless of any of the stability/support/cushioning/whatever-categories. I've done so ever since, and the little twinges in the shins/knees went away and never came back. So maybe my "need less motion control"-theory was right, or I just got lucky, but since then I've stuck to my "buy what feels comfortable to run in"-method.
I have normal arches and a midfoot strike (at least I think so - maybe I should go looking for another video analysis store, just out of curiosity if I'm right...).
My latest shoes, which I really like running in, are:
- Saucony Cortana
- Brooks Pure Flow
Since you wrote "minimalist shoes", I'm not sure they are what you are looking for - I'd rather describe them as "good damping, but lightweight & neutral".
I did the gait analysis in the shoe store too. The shoes suggested were all wrong for me. I eventually went with a neutral shoe and that seemed to be ideal, until now... I'm sure it'll work its self out, just feeling a bit lost without a go to shoe. I choose a minimalist shoe because I have some feeling loss in my left toes. Figured that would give me a better feel for the terrain.
I'm just listening to what others have found, hoping something helps me figure this out.0 -
_nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
@Elise4270 Sure you can have my shoe/foot/strike info as an addition for your data collection. Although I don't know if it will be helpful - my shoe choices are purely based on feelings, no proper gait analysis or anything of that sorts.A runner without shoes is like a pirate without booty.
I'm on a shoe hunt. If you have a minute, chime in with your shoe/foot/ strike info. Yes even if you are a newbie please... Because I feel like I'm missing something.
I have very high arches, minimalist shoe, and feel I have a solid mid foot strike. Love trail shoes.
My left foot is actually swollen this morning from whatever is going on.
I once went to a store with gait analysis, at the time I first decided to started running some ten years ago. Back then they told me I had normal arches and was strongly overpronating. They gave me shoes with a lot of "motion control". I ran in those and the follow-up model for a while. At first they were fine, then I started getting slight shin & knee issues - nothing overly painful, but still noticeable twinges. I read somewhere that your running form can change with training, so I figured maybe my tendons or muscles got stronger with exercise, and I didn't need such large amounts of motion control anymore. I wasn't living near the store with the video gait analysis anymore, so I just went and bought some shoes which felt good to me, regardless of any of the stability/support/cushioning/whatever-categories. I've done so ever since, and the little twinges in the shins/knees went away and never came back. So maybe my "need less motion control"-theory was right, or I just got lucky, but since then I've stuck to my "buy what feels comfortable to run in"-method.
I have normal arches and a midfoot strike (at least I think so - maybe I should go looking for another video analysis store, just out of curiosity if I'm right...).
My latest shoes, which I really like running in, are:
- Saucony Cortana
- Brooks Pure Flow
Since you wrote "minimalist shoes", I'm not sure they are what you are looking for - I'd rather describe them as "good damping, but lightweight & neutral".
I did the gait analysis in the shoe store too. The shoes suggested were all wrong for me. I eventually went with a neutral shoe and that seemed to be ideal, until now... I'm sure it'll work its self out, just feeling a bit lost without a go to shoe. I choose a minimalist shoe because I have some feeling loss in my left toes. Figured that would give me a better feel for the terrain.
I'm just listening to what others have found, hoping something helps me figure this out.
Try this. Go onto a clean grassy area (where no glass or debris will sure to be) or treadmill and run barefoot concentrating on technique. Watch video and read article below. Actually saw the video for the first time and wow, I have to try this myself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgFj3jy4h2Y
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm0 -
@Elise4270 I too wear Saucony Rides, I have a very high arch and do a conscious mid strike. I have an extensor tendonitis issue that is very very slowly getting better and shins that remind me they're there, but not a full on splint.
I sure hope you get it resolved!
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Okay gurus - got a question for youse guys (Jersey-like). I want to give the HM distance another shot, and be fair about it. I feel like my not-great-run on 16-Jan was due to not having done that full distance (and more?) in my training. I think if I can get my body and my head used to 13, 14 miles on my regular long-run day, then my next HM will be cake.
But the last 3 times I've done 10+ miles (including the HM race day) - I'm good (mentally) through 10 or so, but the last miles are just a chore. I'm physically fine, but just mentally, I'm ready to be done with it. But I'm trying to persevere.
My question is this: This Saturday, I have a 15K race - it's supposed to be a nasty/hilly one. Do I go ahead and log a few miles before the race, like around 6:30, 7 before the race at 9? Does it matter if the miles are gapped - 3-4 miles early, and then the 9.3 an hour or so later? Or should I just be satisfied with 9.3 for the day? Am I crazy-making with the "run 14+ miles over and over until you get your head around it"?
I think you have your head on straight about how to cure the mental problem. FWIW, here's some of my experience with that: I ran 13 miles before my first half marathon, and it was No Big Deal at an easy pace. But the last 4 miles were a mental challenge on race day. Race pace made a difference.
My second half was coming back from a stress fracture. I ran slower than I otherwise might have, and had to slow down further after 9 miles for the recovering foot. The last 4 miles was still a mental challenge.
Between my second and third half marathons, I played with running the long run distances from a local marathon training program. No pressure, because I didn't have a goal race; but I ran 16 miles several times and 18 miles once. Got to my third half, and the last 4 miles were no longer a mental challenge, even at race pace.
Take that for what it's worth. On the 15K . . . my first 15K was a tough, hilly course about a month before my first half marathon. It was put into the training program as a tune up race. My assignment was to run 4 easy miles plus the race. I ran the 4 easy starting about an hour before gun time, then had time to relax a little before the race. The last 3 miles of the race were a huge mental challenge, but there was other stuff going on as well. Before that 15K, I had never raced further than a 10K. I had done a preview of the course at easy pace, which was no big deal; it was much tougher at race pace. And what I didn't realize until later was that while the course was all rolling hills, the first 10K was net downhill and all that elevation was made up in the last 5K being net uphill. So I was running slower in the last 3 miles, thinking I was woefully under-conditioned. Lots of stuff goes on in the mental game.
What should *you* do with that 15K? *shrug* If it were me, right now, I'd do a 2 to 3 mile warmup before the race, making sure to preview at least the last mile of the course. It can be mentally very helpful on race day to be comfortable with exactly how far I am from the finish line. But whether *you* should do that long a warmup depends on your conditioning. You will need to balance the need for a warm up, how much distance it takes for you to warm up, and whether your current conditioning can support 2 or 3 easy miles in addition to a 9.3 mile race.0 -
_nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
@Elise4270 Sure you can have my shoe/foot/strike info as an addition for your data collection. Although I don't know if it will be helpful - my shoe choices are purely based on feelings, no proper gait analysis or anything of that sorts.A runner without shoes is like a pirate without booty.
I'm on a shoe hunt. If you have a minute, chime in with your shoe/foot/ strike info. Yes even if you are a newbie please... Because I feel like I'm missing something.
I have very high arches, minimalist shoe, and feel I have a solid mid foot strike. Love trail shoes.
My left foot is actually swollen this morning from whatever is going on.
I once went to a store with gait analysis, at the time I first decided to started running some ten years ago. Back then they told me I had normal arches and was strongly overpronating. They gave me shoes with a lot of "motion control". I ran in those and the follow-up model for a while. At first they were fine, then I started getting slight shin & knee issues - nothing overly painful, but still noticeable twinges. I read somewhere that your running form can change with training, so I figured maybe my tendons or muscles got stronger with exercise, and I didn't need such large amounts of motion control anymore. I wasn't living near the store with the video gait analysis anymore, so I just went and bought some shoes which felt good to me, regardless of any of the stability/support/cushioning/whatever-categories. I've done so ever since, and the little twinges in the shins/knees went away and never came back. So maybe my "need less motion control"-theory was right, or I just got lucky, but since then I've stuck to my "buy what feels comfortable to run in"-method.
I have normal arches and a midfoot strike (at least I think so - maybe I should go looking for another video analysis store, just out of curiosity if I'm right...).
My latest shoes, which I really like running in, are:
- Saucony Cortana
- Brooks Pure Flow
Since you wrote "minimalist shoes", I'm not sure they are what you are looking for - I'd rather describe them as "good damping, but lightweight & neutral".
I did the gait analysis in the shoe store too. The shoes suggested were all wrong for me. I eventually went with a neutral shoe and that seemed to be ideal, until now... I'm sure it'll work its self out, just feeling a bit lost without a go to shoe. I choose a minimalist shoe because I have some feeling loss in my left toes. Figured that would give me a better feel for the terrain.
I'm just listening to what others have found, hoping something helps me figure this out.
Try this. Go onto a clean grassy area (where no glass or debris will sure to be) or treadmill and run barefoot concentrating on technique. Watch video and read article below. Actually saw the video for the first time and wow, I have to try this myself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgFj3jy4h2Y
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm
Mmm, I had been doing a miles at a time barefoot on the treadmill and just fell off doing it. I think you are on to something... Thanks Super Stan.0 -
Feeling so jealous of all the runs here! But I'll get my HM in on Sunday. Weather is supposed to be cold (for Daytona) so that will be great! So much better than the hot we have had this week.
RE: all the discussion of the training for a HM.. My first HM was in October and I did the Gallagher "Just finish" plan. The longest I ran was 12 miles the week before. Had no mental issues during the run, but was running with my daughter and we were chatting the whole time.
For this next HM I haven't trained with any plan. I did a running streak from Thanksgiving-New Years, and a ton of biking in December, then was sick for a week in January. So I just didn't really properly plan out my training. The longest I have run this time is 10.6, two weeks ago. I am going to join a pacing group to aim for 2:20. (Last HM I had no goal and finished in 2:26:xx).
Feb 1 - 4.27
Feb 2- repairing/recovery day.
Feb 3 - 4.5 miles - trainer cancelled so came home and ran
Feb 4 - repairing/recovery day.
Feb 5 - Strength training
Feb 6 - biking ... tbd
Feb 7 - HM!!!
2/7 Daytona Beach HM
3/3 Orlando City Soccer 5K
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I have to share this...this is cool stuff if you use Strava
Here's a site that will import all of your runs and create a heat map:
http://www.jonathanokeeffe.com/strava/map.php
You have to allow it access to your account. Here's what I get for the Twin Cities area:
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_nikkiwolf_ wrote: »
@Elise4270 Sure you can have my shoe/foot/strike info as an addition for your data collection. Although I don't know if it will be helpful - my shoe choices are purely based on feelings, no proper gait analysis or anything of that sorts.A runner without shoes is like a pirate without booty.
I'm on a shoe hunt. If you have a minute, chime in with your shoe/foot/ strike info. Yes even if you are a newbie please... Because I feel like I'm missing something.
I have very high arches, minimalist shoe, and feel I have a solid mid foot strike. Love trail shoes.
My left foot is actually swollen this morning from whatever is going on.
I once went to a store with gait analysis, at the time I first decided to started running some ten years ago. Back then they told me I had normal arches and was strongly overpronating. They gave me shoes with a lot of "motion control". I ran in those and the follow-up model for a while. At first they were fine, then I started getting slight shin & knee issues - nothing overly painful, but still noticeable twinges. I read somewhere that your running form can change with training, so I figured maybe my tendons or muscles got stronger with exercise, and I didn't need such large amounts of motion control anymore. I wasn't living near the store with the video gait analysis anymore, so I just went and bought some shoes which felt good to me, regardless of any of the stability/support/cushioning/whatever-categories. I've done so ever since, and the little twinges in the shins/knees went away and never came back. So maybe my "need less motion control"-theory was right, or I just got lucky, but since then I've stuck to my "buy what feels comfortable to run in"-method.
I have normal arches and a midfoot strike (at least I think so - maybe I should go looking for another video analysis store, just out of curiosity if I'm right...).
My latest shoes, which I really like running in, are:
- Saucony Cortana
- Brooks Pure Flow
Since you wrote "minimalist shoes", I'm not sure they are what you are looking for - I'd rather describe them as "good damping, but lightweight & neutral".
I did the gait analysis in the shoe store too. The shoes suggested were all wrong for me. I eventually went with a neutral shoe and that seemed to be ideal, until now... I'm sure it'll work its self out, just feeling a bit lost without a go to shoe. I choose a minimalist shoe because I have some feeling loss in my left toes. Figured that would give me a better feel for the terrain.
I'm just listening to what others have found, hoping something helps me figure this out.
Try this. Go onto a clean grassy area (where no glass or debris will sure to be) or treadmill and run barefoot concentrating on technique. Watch video and read article below. Actually saw the video for the first time and wow, I have to try this myself.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgFj3jy4h2Y
http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0103/mw.htm
If anyone is interested, here is a more detailed and longer video on this barefoot running stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZdL9vq6EF0 0 -
This is my first time running and I do a lot of it on the treadmill because it is so cold right now.
2/1- 4 miles
2/2- 3.5 miles
2/4- 3.5 miles
2/5- 3 miles
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I integrate barefoot running into my training.... and this video really captures MY approach to to barefoot running as opposed to @Stoshew71's approach...lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYTb-ataCc4&feature=youtu.be 0 -
Completed week 2 of C25k today. It went a bit slower than the last two days did and I almost didn't make it through. My legs acted up again today, Pressure, pain and numbness. Usually when this happens it's mostly in the left, but was pretty consistent in both legs, and the numbness went up to my knees. When I was done with the running and and cooling off, a slight pain I started with on the side of my right leg was back. I then realized that the numbness is deeper than the skin. I thought this was happening from sodium, (figured when I started having some mild pitting in my left leg) so I have been working on keeping that down. But it seems to be a little higher this week than it was last week. But I haven't had any alcohol this week and did last which I also know makes it worse. Anyways, so out on my run my first thought was maybe it's the caffeine, cause I had a bit of soda the last couple of days. A bit disheartening, as these are the issues I was having last year that kept me from progressing.0
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I just started my accountability to myself and others as I pledged to become more active in 2016. Walking 2.5 miles three (3) times each week until I am able to walk 3 miles or more on a regular bases.0
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For those of you that reside in Forest Park, Georgia or surround metro Atlanta area you might be interested in this event https://www.eventbrite.com/e/2016-catch-a-lift-fitness-for-heroes-challenge-tickets-211296333020
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pansamanchada wrote: »@MorningGhost14 what's with the middle finger? not sure who you're mad at. Care to elaborate. Seem rather unnecesary, but I'm willing to be entertained. And thanks for posting funny posters lol
It is my reaction to anyone who tells me I have too many pairs of running shoes.
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MorningGhost14 wrote: »I integrate barefoot running into my training.... and this video really captures MY approach to to barefoot running as opposed to @Stoshew71's approach...lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYTb-ataCc4&feature=youtu.be
I love his Daniel son crane technique. LOL0 -
MorningGhost14 wrote: »pansamanchada wrote: »@MorningGhost14 what's with the middle finger? not sure who you're mad at. Care to elaborate. Seem rather unnecesary, but I'm willing to be entertained. And thanks for posting funny posters lol
It is my reaction to anyone who tells me I have too many pairs of running shoes.
Literally laughing out loud!!0 -
0
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Activity Name: Lap Swimming
Start: Fri, Feb 5, 2016 10:00 AM
Distance 1,000 yards, 40 laps
Time: 29.34 min
2:57 min/100 yard
100 yd breaststroke / 100 yd kickboard
Calories 300
Sad face, no running for a few weeks, MD orders, due to right hip pain. Swim and Bike only... good thing I enjoy both of those activities a lot!!0 -
Forgot my totals early and also, I was fixing a sandwich when I remembered yesterday I made swet potato fries and seasoned them with Johnny's. Which is one of the things I had cut out to help with the fluid retention. Guess my head cold has made me a little absent minded, and didn't think about that with I made those fries.
Feb 1 - Run/ .9 miles, Walk/ 1.21 miles - C25k
Feb 3 - Run/ .9 miles, Walk/ 1.21 miles - C25k
Feb 5 - Run/ .9 miles, Walk/ 1.25 miles - C25k
Monthly Totals - Run/ 2.7, Walk/ 3.67Completed week 2 of C25k today. It went a bit slower than the last two days did and I almost didn't make it through. My legs acted up again today, Pressure, pain and numbness. Usually when this happens it's mostly in the left, but was pretty consistent in both legs, and the numbness went up to my knees. When I was done with the running and and cooling off, a slight pain I started with on the side of my right leg was back. I then realized that the numbness is deeper than the skin. I thought this was happening from sodium, (figured when I started having some mild pitting in my left leg) so I have been working on keeping that down. But it seems to be a little higher this week than it was last week. But I haven't had any alcohol this week and did last which I also know makes it worse. Anyways, so out on my run my first thought was maybe it's the caffeine, cause I had a bit of soda the last couple of days. A bit disheartening, as these are the issues I was having last year that kept me from progressing.
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Sorry to hear about the running! I do love biking and swimming almost as much as running, great fill ins!itstime2016 wrote: »Activity Name: Lap Swimming
Start: Fri, Feb 5, 2016 10:00 AM
Distance 1,000 yards, 40 laps
Time: 29.34 min
2:57 min/100 yard
100 yd breaststroke / 100 yd kickboard
Calories 300
Sad face, no running for a few weeks, MD orders, due to right hip pain. Swim and Bike only... good thing I enjoy both of those activities a lot!!
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MorningGhost14 wrote: »pansamanchada wrote: »@MorningGhost14 what's with the middle finger? not sure who you're mad at. Care to elaborate. Seem rather unnecesary, but I'm willing to be entertained. And thanks for posting funny posters lol
It is my reaction to anyone who tells me I have too many pairs of running shoes.
Literally laughing out loud!!
@Becky_44 that's exactly what I was gonna write. Great minds think alike eh?
@MorningGhost14 touché my friend, good one0 -
2/1: 6 miles with Joe to Go crew
2/2: 5 miles
2/3: 7.5 miles
2/4: 8.2 miles (am), 6 miles (pm) with the Thursday crew
2/5: Rest day (hallelujah!)
Much needed rest day today. Used the extra time to sleep in this morning, then went to the grocery store this afternoon, and THEN I even went the extra mile and got my taxes done! Now just taking the night off from homework and stress to make some new running playlists, eat my weight in mac and cheese, and plan the weekend's running routes.
Upcoming races:
4/3: Caesar Rodney Half Marathon
5/1: New Jersey Marathon
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A runner without shoes is like a pirate without booty.
I'm on a shoe hunt. If you have a minute, chime in with your shoe/foot/ strike info. Yes even if you are a newbie please... Because I feel like I'm missing something.
I have very high arches, minimalist shoe, and feel I have a solid mid foot strike. Love trail shoes.
My left foot is actually swollen this morning from whatever is going on.
@Elise4270 I have normal arches (I guess?), wide feet (or at least wide toes; I like a spacious toe box!), and I wear neutral shoes. I strike mid-foot, sometimes a bit too far back toward the heel if I'm tired and lazy. I wore Saucony Kinvaras for ages, but switched 90% of the time to Saucony Ride 8s after the K6 upgrade kinda sucked and I needed something hardier for the mileage I put in.0 -
I am still trying to see the best way to follow this group, I'm a little lost, but I like what you are all posting and I'm trying to figure it all out. I'm usually pretty tech savvy too! So This week if I'm not on the treadmill I'm doing Zumba... A great calorie burn and good sweat is what I need. I will need Lots of advice on either running@ temps between 40 to -10 and running on snow0
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